First EIAS3D Software Release

[Vizfizz]

Congrats EIAS3D. Its a good and logical choice of expansion.

[AVTPro]

WOW!!!

Do you know what this means? :buttrock: :bounce: :thumbsup: :applause: :beer:

[AVTPro]

Maybe a multiple target morph tweener is on the way? :D

[cjberg]

That is great news!

I hope they create an MDD exporter for EIAS. not having opened the new plug... MDD can be used to blend animations... adds huge power to the tool.

Cj

[A.C. Farley]

Hi,

So I don't like to sound like a dummy, but what's so good about MDD?

-Craig

[cjberg]

Hi,

So I don't like to sound like a dummy, but what's so good about MDD?

-Craig

MDD is a vertex caching system. The current application, you can animate a model in another application, using whatever tools you wish. Export the animation data as the MDD and then render that animation inside EI(including CA, cloth, fluids, etc). Another benefit of MDD is that it takes a lot of render overhead time to calculate the bones and skinning. So using the MDD vertex caching removes that overhead and speeds up the render time significantly.

Additionally, as I noted, you "can" with future features... export a library of vertex animations and then edit them later to create NLA (non-linear animations). Think of the process like morphing, but adding the time factor of animating. It can be very powerful in the right hands... bwaaaaaa

Cj

[Vizfizz]

Hi Craig,

With the current lack of strong character animation tools in EIAS, a methodology of bringing animated vertex information over into EIAS from other applications is required. This will allow an artist to construct a deforming mesh in one application and bring them into EI. (And thus render with Camera) Vertex caching records the position of every vertex for a model for every frame of the animation. Essentially, this is the lowest common denominator for exporting animation from one application to another. It has no rigging or compatibility issues between platforms. It will be very good to export facial animation or potential organic animation that Animator is incapable of duplicating within its own toolset.

A number of companies utilize this approach. Its normally called vertex or geometry caching. MDD is just one format of caching information. While MDD is a good call (its compatible with a number of applications like Lightwave's PointOven) I personally would have taken a look at Autodesk's XML / Cache system so EI could have been directly compatible with Autodesk products.

Now if one wants to export something out of Maya into EI, a Maya owner would have to get a plugin to write out MDD files. Something it doesn't do normally because it has its own format instead.

[AVTPro]

Brian,

What plug would I need for Maya and how much will it cost?

This is idea because once geometry is cached down only to vertex animation, it can be rendered by multiple EI users.

Also, it's ever better than FBX animation and exporting and rerigging bones. I'm looking forwarding to getting the instructions from Tomas.

[Vizfizz]

Alonzo,

Try looking into Point Oven. http://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO1.5/Maya/PointOven_maya.html

[AVTPro]

Oh yeah, forgot about point oven. Are you on PC or Mac Brian? Any news for a 64bit Maya OSX?

Again thanks.

[Vizfizz]

I'm on a PC for Maya. However, I find the 64bit version of Maya less stable. I don't have any information on 64bit Mac version.

[richardjoly]

Alonzo, Point Oven is not currently working with Maya 2010 on Mac. Contact Mark Wilson at Framestore-CFC to get and update on development.

MDD also works with Blender... Here is my little test:
http://www.rdnmultimedia.com/eias/MDD_Blender.mov

[Vizfizz]

Hey Richard,

I don't have any familiarity with Blender. So MDD export directly out of Blender is possible? Then import via the plug?

I'll look into other MDD solutions.

[monday1313]

yes it is, and add in Collada import from open source human model makers like Makehuman.org and you have yourself a very easy, route from model to final render from makehuman-(your modeling apps of choice for tweaking)-blender-EIAS/Camera.

I am very psyched about this. Great Job EIAS! Blender's CA features are pretty cool, the reusable actions is pretty amazing actually...still trying to wrap my head around the possibilities...

Nice happy alien guy Richard! I like his cheerfulness...

[AVTPro]

Nice Joke. Rich so that's only moving geo in EI? no bones. Cool.

I havent seen a price for PointOven yet.

[richardjoly]

Yep, a set of vertex moving according to their position in the mdd file. No bone. Empty shell like my head!
Point Oven is 99$ per seat.
http://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO1.5/PointOven_Order.html

[AVTPro]

Thanks for your help there Rich, don't know why it just didn't bite me. :)

[AVTPro]

Hey Rich,

What does the animation look like in the FCE are the curve viewable anywhere?

[DickM]

There should be no curves since the animation is associated with vertices not groups.

[AVTPro]

Oh yeah...Maya on the brain :) Can't see points in EI.

[DickM]

Hey Alonzo, yea, no vertex level control yet :-(

Wonder why my last post is marked as "may contain offensive material"? Anyone know what was offensive? :rolleyes:

[A.C. Farley]

It said to click on it so I clicked on it. Since I'm not easily offended, I took the chance. There's absolutely nothing wrong there.

-Craig

[Vizfizz]

No idea either. Nothing was sent in for moderation. Mistake?

[juanxer]

I think something similar happened to a post of mine time ago. There must be some forum filter acting up.

[cjberg]

There should be no curves since the animation is associated with vertices not groups.

[richardjoly]

Alonzo, I confirm, there is no Function curve. Simply vertices repositioned for each frames according to the .mdd file.
The speed of the animation can be modified. See Ian Tutorial in the download file:
http://www.eias3d.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=102

[AVTPro]

Ok. I will definitely get MDD plug for Maya, when I can afford it. $99 isn't that bad.

How big is the file on the HD, relatively speaking? Is it one mesh with animation or one mesh for each frame of animation.

Tomas and I figured out how to export geometry animation from Maya years ago, but a streamline process would be better.

So being that there are no curves, the animation can not be controlled in EI...i presume? it can only run through.

[DickM]

How big is the file on the HD, relatively speaking? Is it one mesh with animation or one mesh for each frame of animation.

it should be one mesh along with a file with all vertex positions recorded for all the frames. At least that's how it works in C4D.

So being that there are no curves, the animation can not be controlled in EI...i presume? it can only run through.

I would think it could only be run. Possibly the overall speed could be edited. Not sure what interface controls the igors have given the plug. And I won't know since I'm using EIAS 7.

[richardjoly]

Richard,
MDD is available for EIAS7 and EIAS8 Mac and PC
http://www.eias3d.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=102

[DickM]

Thanks Richard, sorry, I should explain. I can't even run 7. I have a Macintel now and my 7 dongle will not work with it. I have to buy a new dongle. :rolleyes: Which sadly ain't gunna happen! Not unless EIAS is DRASTICALLY upgraded :cry:

[dieGolum]

Hello, I tried to import MDD files from C4D but when I link the geometry to the plugin in EIAS the geometry disappears;(
I used a .OBJ through OBJ2FACT, the model opens well but disappears when link to MDD.plm

I have tried many different ways to generate the OBJ but the same results.

I used "MDDIO" a C4d pluguin for MDD export.

Cheers
Diego

[DickM]

I think when it comes into Ei, it might be reorganizing vertices. EI sometimes did this with morph targets in the past. If they're in the wrong order, chaos ensues. :banghead: Not sure how you'd fix it. If any import dialogue is giving you options, I'd leave them all off so it's not doing anything unnecessary to the geometry like reordering!

[AVTPro]

Morley (I use your last name :) when talking about curves, could be miss interpreted by a filter. :)

Anyhow, So MDD reads vert animation but EI still can not address verts. Ok, that's a great step in the right direction. It's a very savvy production tool using only geometry.

I check out the docs and video, Great Job Ian. It's better than exporting geometry for every frame. Even in some cases using MDD would by better than using FBX with bones (except non-single meshes). It's also GREAT that it's free because transferring animation to other EI have no excuse not to have the plug for rendering imported character animation.

I can't test it though. I still have to get the MDD Point Oven plug for Maya. I have to wait before I spend more money on software, I just bought Maya a month or so ago. That drained me for a bit. It would be interesting to see what you guys come up with.

[Vizfizz]

It would be interesting to see if UV data comes over as well.

[AVTPro]

Brian,

UV info would be attach to the geometry, not the MDD file, right? Should be OK?

There's a movie sample with the DL link. It looks like a UV'd face.

[Veehoy]

A couple of tips about exporting to MDD from Maya here: http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=25973
Another plugin here: http://sleepandwork.com/m2mdd/

[AVTPro]

Well....I'll be....!!!

Veehoy :bounce: :buttrock: :arteest: :bowdown: :eek: :applause:

[Vizfizz]

Brian,

UV info would be attach to the geometry, not the MDD file, right? Should be OK?

There's a movie sample with the DL link. It looks like a UV'd face.

Should be...but you never know.

[Veehoy]

The other solutions I have found so far, apart from Blender, is Houdini, Lightwave, and XSI modtool (w/ Point Oven)....

[AVTPro]

Veehoy,

I order a couple of days ago from Sleep&Work. They were on vacation so they will send it out when they get back Friday. Also, they may not have an official 2010 release for OSX. 2009 is good enough but they seem to be interested in "Making it work in 2010 for me".

heck, once the geometry is baked I don't mind opening it in 2009.
We will see how it goes. I 'm busy so I may not have a sample right away.

[Veehoy]

Hope it works out for you :)
I will probably use Blender or Lightwave since MDD export is implemented. I got some flawed geometry exporting from LW, but that could easily be caused by Silo (when converting to Fact). Have to do some further testing....

[AVTPro]

They got back to me today. They just got in from the fair. I guess they mean trade show. I don't think they speak much English but seem to be very nice guys. They said, they tried to comply for OSX 2010 Maya but there was a bug. They mentioned that if I can wait their may be a surprise in it for my patience. Hope it's a new car :buttrock: :bounce: :applause: :beer:

[dieGolum]

I think when it comes into Ei, it might be reorganizing vertices. EI sometimes did this with morph targets in the past. If they're in the wrong order, chaos ensues. :banghead: Not sure how you'd fix it. If any import dialogue is giving you options, I'd leave them all off so it's not doing anything unnecessary to the geometry like reordering!

Hello,

I finally had success importing animations from Cinema4D with MDD, works perfectly with Cloth, Morph bones and Deformers and all PLA animation.

A Cinema4D user has made a video explaining:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.p...ost6367678 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=6367678#post6367678)

here is the EIAS3D forum thread

http://www.eias3d.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=65&page=5

here some examples:

http://www.imago-d.org/c4des/MDDtest.mov

http://www.imago-d.org/c4des/freezing.mov

Cheers
Diego

[AVTPro]

Really beautiful stuff.

[AVTPro]

OK. I got my MDD license from PointOven for Maya. Here's a very quick raw sample of an old animation from Maya to EIAS with not bones, just geometry. I got a few flip normals but nothing serious. Only thing that does concern me is that a multi-object character could be tedious because every mesh would have to be exported inMDD. So a face could have face, eye, two brows, inner eyes, tongue hair, etc. Would be nice to import all the groups as one. Also it would be nice if in EI the MDD animation could be baked to curves and the MDD plug deleted (also Encage).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MQlepfQJDE


I'm very exciting plug. Thanks Tomas and Igors for the new development. Keep it in the running.

[ediris]

Hello,
Alonzo do you meant to say that Encage/MDD doesnt work?
That will be very sad, i think Diego sample he uses Blob Maker linked to the MDD.
I have tried with Power Particlesv2 and it is not working for me here since i want to make ala Blaster type of effect.
In c4D you have to parent everything to the object you want to bake the animation channels to it.so for example if i want the hair i will add all the hair and baked them, if i want the eyes,face i will parent them and exported.
Tomas did a test with a head model in XSI exported to EIAS so it shold work for you too maybe you could ask him what is his workflow.
Edgard

[AVTPro]

Hey Edgard,

Encage and MDD works fine with EIAS via PointOven. No problem. I added an Encage to smooth the geometry in the sample.


All I am saying is it would render faster if both plugins, MDD and Encage could be baked into the EI file and deleted. Renders are faster without plugins.

[ediris]

Hey Edgard,

Encage and MDD works fine with EIAS via PointOven. No problem. I added an Encage to smooth the geometry in the sample.


All I am saying is it would render faster if both plugins, MDD and Encage could be baked into the EI file and deleted. Renders are faster without plugins.
That will be sweet Alonzo but no point in waiting for it to happened meanwhile we got to deal with it ;)
Greetings,Edgard

[AVTPro]

Still making it happen.
Here's another sample. Maya to EI no bones. Just verts and a plugin or two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZxRvE_JUYU

No. it's not my model or animation. thanks.

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