Self-learning vs. taking courses?

[T4D]

First thing BUY Maya the financal commitment will MAKE you follow though
PLUS you can do commerical jobs, little simple ones maybe but doing work is by far the best way to learn this stuff.

Second start working and don't stop,. start working on anything re do a old WB cartoon or a painting you like,. as you do that project you will think of idea for the next one

tutorials are fine and good we used them here in the studio when we have a focused task

eg - hair or particle fancy stuff we may buy a tutorial to show all the options and get us up to speed as fast as we can in Maya or XSI or what ever

we have had many artists here switch tools and learn new ones without much problem mainly because they had a job infront of them and that knew they had to do it.

Learn as you work.

[kelgy]

You can learn maya on your own, just expect it to take (a freaking amount of ) time. If you try to be a generalist, give yourself about 3 years intensive. You have to be on that sucker every day.
It took me about 5 years but I took some time off.

I used videos mostly-like DT.
Gnomon is good for the high end stuff but I think something like DT is better for the beginning. But they changed their method of doing the videos so maybe its not so good now.

I gave myself little projects to learn-and came from an art background so I didnt have to learn how to draw or sculpt, anatomy, etc...-it might be better to plan out what you intend to learn, like a course plan. I went from menu to menu, starting with modelling, then texturing, rigging etc...maybe doing it with a focus on all menus(modelling to rendering) is better.
But if you want to specialize--like focus on animation, you could probably learn things much faster.Under a year I suspect.

You need the patience of a zen master. Dont get frustrated that you have to learn all sorts of things--eventually it all seems to fit together, like building a nuclear bomb. Every little thing has a purpose in the big explosion at the end.

[mborok]

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I do want to be a generalist, especially since I don't plan on working at a big studio. Three years? My impression is that about 60% of Maya's learning curve is arcane stuff that almost never gets used, and another 10% is remembering where all the menu items and panel items live, since they seem to be scattered somewhat haphazardly. I am certainly willing to put in the time, but I hope to be at least employable in some capacity in less than a year's time. I hope you mean three years to become an expert, not just to have something to put on a show reel. I do seem to have the patience for it now. I figured out, while learning Actionscript, that you have to allow yourself to absorb the information at your own pace and accept that you will forget a lot of things at first. I expect the same approach to work with Maya.

What is DT? I don't recognize the acronym. Gnomon I've heard of.

[PerryDS]

If you already have experience in other apps, then shifting is not as extreme. Coming from using lightwave extensively, and used to it's workflow, I have found maya to be missing some of those little features that I found helpful in Lightwave. Most notable was the ability to hide and unhide selected polygons which I use extensively for organic type modeling. I went back to lightwave for my polygon modeling, and can export the build to Maya or zbrush.

[mborok]

You can't hide and unhide selected polygons in Maya? I'm not ever sure how you can model that way. I'm considering Modo and ZBrush for modeling (both supposedly have fairly shallow learning curves, so I'm not too concerned about information overload). Really disappointing to know that Maya is missing such a basic feature.

The thing that is bugging me about Lightwave currently is that you have to rig in Layout, but paint weights in Modeler. No way to see the effects of your weight painting without updating the Layout display, plus have to keep both app windows open side by side. I have done very little rigging with it, though, so maybe there's some plug-in or something I'm not aware of. I do like Lightwave otherwise, but there doesn't seem to be much demand for it.

[Jettatore]

There is little money left in this industry at the individual artists level and it's shrinking every year, while more and more join the ranks of CG, from all over the world. So, with that in mind, absolutely no, do not give a school your money, and worse would be to take out a loan.

Most programs cost a minimum of $30,000 not including cost of living. I'm sure there may be a few online courses out there that are more affordable than that, but even 30G is cheapish. But lets say on average school would be $50,000 not including cost of living for the year. If you worked, whatever job your qualified for now, making anywhere from $7 - $15 an hour, and you saved up $30,000 or $50,000 or more and had the physical cash in hand, that you earned yourself over the coarse of many years, would you spend that money on CG School? If the answer is no to that question, well then you better not take out a loan.

With that said, if you like CG and are passionate about it, by all means, study your heart out and find some friends to work and learn with. But don't go broke, or put yourself into financial debt to do so. If you find a cheap school or affordable training whatever it may be, then by all means, go for it.

[KrzysztofFus]

There is little money left in this industry at the individual artists level and it's shrinking every year, while more and more join the ranks of CG, from all over the world.

I think that the amount of good CG jobs for fantastic artists will never go away. Advertising and Commercial work will NEVER go away. CG movies are made more and more. Wages only go down because the artists allow them to. If people have a problem with it then there should be a union with fixed pricing.

[PerryDS]

If you are passionate about CG, self-learning is a very good way to go if you have the capacity to do so. Considering the cost of the courses and your cost of living, you can purchase the applications and spend your available time to learn form training DVD's and books.

I though it very odd that one simple feature that has been available in lightwave doesn't exits in Maya. In Maya, you can hide and unhide entire objects, but you can't select individual polygons from an object and hide them.

But none the less ... if you build something in one app, the model can be transfered .... exported to others. I use apps that I find more efficient than others for different particular purposes and shift them around as needed.

[Jettatore]

Perry: "Maya -you can't select individual polygons from an object and hide them."

Yes you can, it's a bit awkward at first to understand though. Select all of your faces, not just the object but all of the actual faces and go to show>isolate select>view selected. This will turn on isolating for your object, now select the face or faces you want to hide and go show>isolate select>remove selected objects.

KrzysztofFus: The pay still continually goes down, year by year for the vast majority of individual artists working studio gigs, while inflation and cost of living goes up. As far as advertising, broadcast TV itself is actually a quickly dying medium, and TV was the heart of high end advertising firms that have all been cutting back in the current economy.

[PerryDS]

Thanks Jettatore, that worked. Although, it seems to me to counter intuitive ... but it does make a big difference.

On the salaries issue, I tend to be diverse in my independent practice so I can stay away from projects that don't have reasonable budgets. But I operate in a city with very little local activity in film, so I tend to do other work. Drives me nuts ... and would rather focus on just CG ... but not to keen on selling my soul for the right to do so. Only the opportunity comes from perseverance and timing, then I will commit to CG entirely.

[KrzysztofFus]

I still stand behind saying. If your work is awesome. You have nothing to worry about.
And if wages going down is a problem then the CG community should unionize.

If anything, your rate should go up with your experience. Are you telling me that now you charge less than your first year you did CG? It isn't the industry that's a problem its people who allow themselves to be stiffed. They lower everyone's wages.

[kelgy]

I hope you mean three years to become an expert, not just to have something to put on a show reel. I do seem to have the patience for it now.

***depends on what you want to put in a show reel.
I think to "master" maya they say three years intensive. But it depends on the individual I suppose.


DT is Digital Tutors.

[mborok]

Well, a basic rigged and animated character or two with decent modeling such that the mesh doesn't get wonky. I mean, I have done some organic modeling in other programs, so I've dealt with some of the underlying concepts, just not in Maya.

Anyway, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Thanks for all your advice.

[ddg]

Hey Mborok,

I have just bought Maya 2010 a few months ago and I signed up for Digital Tudors, and they are a great resource to help me overcome the learning curve in Maya. I know there are programs out there that probably push you much faster, but I am learning at night at my own pace. I can see how it will take years of practicing because Maya is really a big program, and to produce something that can be used on a professional level, I would think you would really have to have an advanced knowledge of most of the program. To give you an example, I am still working hard in modeling after a few months of learning. I understand the program, but producing something that someone would be willing to pay for is another story.

Don’t let me discourage you because as you learn and practice at the methods, you are able to absorb more than you think going through DT’s videos. I get tickled when I read some of the question on the board because I could actually answer some of them now. I have not touched dynamics or animation, but I am getting there. I really want to focus on modeling until I know it really good, and then move on to other platforms.

I think I paid 250ish for 6 months of lessons from DT, and at the end of it, I will probably sign up for a full years lessons. I would much rather listen to their lesson plans than watch TV at night. And when I get burned out I can give it a break without the pressure of tests or school payments. My biggest expense was buying the software and a system that could handle it. It cost me a bit over 3k for the software and the same for my system. I guess I have 7 grand in it, but that is a far cry from 30k which is what many schools want. Also, I can continue working and earning some money.

I am really enjoying learning the software and what it can do. I hope that I can make something that will make someone smile someday, and not going broke learning the system is making me smile every day. Good luck in learning the software.

BTW: I have some gnomon Videos, and I plan to buy more in time, but DT seems to be a really good starter program for me.

[INFINITE]

Honestly I think most CG schools are a waste of money (apart from the well respect ones that have well known and talented teachers)

You can easily teach yourself using books, online tutorials and training videos. If you have the passion and the drive you will be able to do it yourself.

Personally, when I left school in the UK at the time (around '96) there was nothing in the way of schools for 3D, animation or CG. I managed just fine working hard with a part time job (in a factory stacking bottles!) and teaching myself 3D applications and techniques in my spare time.... It works, you just need to put the effort and time in but if your serious, that time will fly! :) and it REALLY doesn't matter what application you use, the proof is in the pudding. A good artist can do great things with any old application and most of the time the techniques transfer across applications anyway.

I hope that helps.

[suzvan]

Honestly I think most CG schools are a waste of money (apart from the well respect ones that have well known and talented teachers)


could you pls name these "well respected" schools for the benefit of us green leaves?

[INFINITE]

could you pls name these "well respected" schools for the benefit of us green leaves?images/icons/icon11.gif

Well these guys for one - http://www.gnomonschool.com/

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