Animation: Muscle Rig

[Wilson-3d]

Hey Sancoiok. You are non stop man. This is great. This is one of the best Cinema rigs I have seen. The muscle deformations are great and I especially love the way the skin around the shoulder stretches. Great job. Everyone should take time to download these movies and check them out. O.K. so I got a little excited.:beer:

[sanciok]

Thanks Wilson!! I'm glad u like it!!

i'll take the time to explain the process!!

[tapaul]

id love to check them out , but the bandwifth for these downloads is 3 or 4 kb per sec , which real slow and painfull

the first one looks great though :)



cheers

Paul

www.tools4d.com

[AdamT]

Super job Sanciok!

[phaederus]

those are fantastic. look forward to seeing a tut

[bobzilla]

Great job, sanciok ! I've been trying to come up with something like that for a while. I can never get the bones that I'm scaling to move back correctly and it all winds up falling apart at some point.

Is the muscle hierarchy completely separate from the bone hierarchy?

You're DEFINITELY going to have to write a tut for us!!!! I have like a million questions!!

Thanks for the preview!!

[flyingP]

very nicely done.

[xeno]

I also think it is looking very good! I have no idea how u achieved this, but it is awesome! A tutorial would indeed be very cool;)

[WQP]

I've never been able to rig anything in a satisfactory way in C4D, I too would love to see how this feat was accomplished!

[phaederus]

hi there. here is a cc. i'm being hyper critical (cause i'm jealeous) here goes

otto1.avi
inner Elbow has a strange deform or fold posibilly due to lake of details in the mesh.

otto2.avi
Hips: the mesh seems to fold as he walks this would happen a bit, but the torso ought to bulge above a little as well comming over the top of the fold. frankly dress the poor naked fellow and who will see? my his gf:rolleyes:
ankles :see below
nice walk cycle.

otto 3.avi
ankles seem to have the same odd deformation that the elbows have again maybe more detail in mesh.
The biceps wouldnt get that big with that sort of movement. basically the more resistance you apply to the arm the begger the bicep would get as they do more work. and vice versa. it will do work in this action just not as much as is shown

otto4.avi
at one point near the end the bicept and laterall muscles intersect each other. the motion youve shown is probably exreme thoough.
the lats deform oddly between 4 - 5 secs.

ott0 5 .avi
same elbow problem.

otherwise wow mate wow

[sinai_1]

Great job, sanciok

[sanciok]

Wohoo!!:scream:
Nice to see all this comments!!

phaederus: i'll answer u first!

U're right about the deformation problems... actually the mesh is almost unweighted... i used Claude Bonnet only for the arms!
Anyway i think that if i spedn a bit more time on weighting the mesh the resul will come out better!
On the Otto3 vid i exagerated a bit with the muscle bulging... just because i Wanted it to be visible!!

BTW now i cannot write a tutorial as this rigging process is part of a Rigging Book i'm writing (in italian) to be published on-line on the italian C4D dedicated portal (www.c4dzone.com).
Anyway the "secret" is... to use driven-driven keys.
Let me explain. If u add an user data on a muscle bone (maybe a slider controlling the bone scale), than drive the slide using the rotation coord u choose, make things simplier and more stable!
Tha's because u have a (pre)chosen value driven by a coord and so it's only a matter of setting the range mapper of the driven expression!!!
For example the torso area is modified by a spline deformer, and the modyfing spline has a slider that control the scale driven by the +Y of both the arm controls (the value is mixed using a simple Mix node).
I also used the Studio Fabian Muscle Bone Plugin
Ah... the Muscle bones are ALL into the skeleton hierarchy.

Cheers
Sanciok.

[bobtronic]

Hi Sanciok,

This looks great so far. Some little deformation iffys
but thats all I spoted. The movements look very fluid.
Will this rigging book only avaible in italian ?

Bob

[sanciok]

Hi Bob!
well.... i'm writing it in italian by now... ad i don't know if will be avaliable also in english...
but i can't actually nswer this question right now !!:beer: :beer:

[flingster]

once again...he disappears for a week or two an reappears with something stunning..

very very cool work bud as usual...keep it up...Oooh and please make an inglese tut version! heh heh.

:buttrock: :buttrock:

[sanciok]

Originally posted by flingster
once again...he disappears for a week or two an reappears with something stunning..

very very cool work bud as usual...keep it up...Oooh and please make an inglese tut version! heh heh.

:buttrock: :buttrock:

Thanks Flingster! I'll see what i can do for the english version!!:beer: :beer:

[ndat]

list of things to do
--------------------------------------
1. take over the world
2. Become a CG God
3. Learn Italian -- up from 304
--------------------------------------

Wow that is excellent :), I just finished rigging my first char like 2 minutes ago. Thanks for making me feel miniscule lol :)....

[sanciok]

:thumbsup:
go on rigging!!!

[fabianR]

Hi Sanciok,

I'm very pleased to read that my BoneTools plug-in is involved in this beautyful rig! Really nice work! :thumbsup:

As a matter of fact I build an XPresso-expression a few weeks ago for an muscle bone using the code from that plug-in in a COFFEE-node. This has the great advantage that you can now set a priority for the expression so that it may be executed after MOCCA. I had almost forgotten, but this movies encourage me to upload this expression as well. I just will have to write a short discription.

Cheers
-
Fabian

[plsyvjeucxfw]

Awesome job. Thanks also for providing both the DivX and the Quicktime, in file sizes of under half a meg.

Obviously you put alot of thought into your web postings, just as you do in your rigging!

[fabianR]

Hi again,

I just uploaded the XPression I mentioned above. Hope you find it usefull! Here's the link:

• XPression:
http://www.studio-fabian.de/Images/downloads/misc/MuscleBone/MuscleBone.zip

• documentation:
http://www.studio-fabian.de/Images/downloads/misc/MuscleBone/Manual.html

Have fun!
-
Fabian

[bobzilla]

Thanks, Fabian!

Is it possible for you (or anyone else...Sanciok...) to post a simple .c4d example of how the MuscleBone works? I can't seem to get it to work properly, and I KNOW I'm doing something stupid and missing something obvious, because it's not that difficult!

Thanks in advance.

[sanciok]

Sorry if i didn't answer you Fabian!
First of all, Thanks for your useful FREE plugin!! U rock!!
The muscle bone plugin is exactly what i needed to achieve my muscolar rig!!

Thanks also fot the Xpresso expression! I'll try it tomorrow!!
And.. Bob.. i'll send you the file if i can get a nice result!!

[bobzilla]

Thanks, sanciok...and Fabian...

[geoffr]

That is fantastic!
I've been building a rig for a character for a while with lots of experimenting with CB to get the movement correct with bones. I've discovered that to get it correct this way is totally impossible so I started going down the driven posemixer route (move a bone and it deforms the mesh type of thing).
I think I had better do a bit more experimenting after looking at this.
How long before the book is done?

[sanciok]

Originally posted by geoffr
That is fantastic!
I've been building a rig for a character for a while with lots of experimenting with CB to get the movement correct with bones. I've discovered that to get it correct this way is totally impossible so I started going down the driven posemixer route (move a bone and it deforms the mesh type of thing).
I think I had better do a bit more experimenting after looking at this.
How long before the book is done?


Yes u can do souch things with the posemixer! but in this case u need to model every morph, and the scene will be very heavy...
so i suggest to use driven bones, or driven spline deformers!

About the book... well i can't really say when.... sorry
Cheers, Sanciok

[bobzilla]

geoffr: If you are going to use mesh morphs (as opposed to bone morphs) in PoseMixer, I recommend Fabian's OptimizedMorph plugin. It lets you use a portion of the mesh as opposed to copying the entire mesh over and over again for the morph targets.

And...it's free! As are all his great plugins.

[geoffr]

Yeah, I've been wondering about Fabian's morph thing (he's a saint amongst men). A bit more experimentation is in order, I think. Do you know, off hand, if it can be controlled in the same way as posemixer?
My model's for still shots for a range of books so the weight isn't too much of a worry but it has been nagging at the back of my mind though.

[bobzilla]

Yep. I used a set driven key for eye blinks. Use the slider to open and close the eye.

[fabianR]

Originally posted by geoffr
Do you know, off hand, if it can be controlled in the same way as posemixer?


Well, as a matter of fact, it uses the PoseMixer for the actual morphing. Check out the sample setup-file for 'OptimisedMorph' that you'll find in the 'miscellaneous' section of the downloads. I hope it works for you!
-
Fabian

[sanciok]

Well my opinion is... to keep fast an animation scene i'd use the few posemixers as possible, for the hans for example is usless to use posemixer with many poses... i'd prefer to set some driven keys whit whom obtain every kind of needed pose. For example, u can have a slider for each finger controlling the spread-fist poses, another slider that control all the fingers together with an on-off switch to allow singolar slider movements (simply using a mix node)
This is something i didn't experiment yet but i think i'm gonna try this solution soon!!
in this case u don't need to add bone poses to get the wanted result!
I'll post a scene as i get some nice result!!

Cheers,

Sanciok

[bobzilla]

sanciok: You may have something there. I have quite a few poses in several PoseMixer objects for hands and feet poses. It was quite easy to set up. Wouldn't set driven keys be a pain to set up? It seems that would be a lot of work.

Let me know how the "tests" come out!!

[sanciok]

well... actually IT IS simple and fast to use posemixer... for example when i worked in maya i saw that hands were controlled like i said!

i think that ther's no much difference between setting up poses and defining driven keys! And... don't forget that NOT everyone purchased MOCCA, so it'd be a good tip to have good control and low weighted scene!

[geoffr]

Fabian
I downloaded optimisemorph and it's great. Thanks very much indeed. I'm going to incorporate into my rig forthwith.
I'm going to use posemixer with set driven keys to adjust the mesh around the joints of the bones so that I can get the deformation as accurate as possible. It seems to be the only way. An example of what I'm going to do is the way the thumb makes a lump on the hand when it's moved next to the fingers. Try and do that with just CB and you'll rip your hair out trying. (I'm sure someone will prove me wrong now;) ).

[fabianR]

Originally posted by geoffr
Fabian
I downloaded optimisemorph and it's great. Thanks very much indeed.

I'm glad you like it! :)
-
Fabian

[sanciok]

Here is the Xpresso Hand File!
It took half an hour... It's quite complicated to explain HOW... but it works... this is for everyone who doesn't have MOCCA and posemixer... or a different way to animate hands!
It is not very accurate... right now.... it needs more tweaking!!
:beer: :beer:
Cheers,

Sanciok

[sanciok]

eheh...:blush:

i forgot the file!:wavey:

[bobzilla]

Thanks for sharing, sanciok!

Holy crap, that Xpression looks complicated. When I opened it up it looks like some of the road signs we have here in New Jersey in the US!

Nice work. I'm doing similar things using PoseMixer and bones. It does get a little slow, but right now, it's easier for my feeble mind to put together!!

Thanks again!

[sanciok]

Originally posted by bobzilla
Thanks for sharing, sanciok!

Holy crap, that Xpression looks complicated. When I opened it up it looks like some of the road signs we have here in New Jersey in the US!

Thanks again!



:beer: :beer: it's not that difficult!! It's a simple mix node!!!

[geoffr]

Sanciok

How's the tutorial going?

I'm having real problems with my character and i have a feeling you could be my mentor / guardian angel / lifeline / teacher of all knowledge / sensei / etc.

It has to be said that there is a lot of advice and discussion on how to make rigs (which is very, very useful) but when you try and get the rig to work in conjunction with the mesh, there's nothing.

I've been going round in circles trying to get the mesh moving accuratly and I just need a little bit of pointing in the right direction now.

Help us Sanciok, your our only help

If I've missed any tutorials anywhere on this subject, could someone show me where?

Has everyone seen this by the way?
It's fantastic.(nudity warning). If this can be done in LW then I'm sure it can be done in C4D. Does anyone know of anything similar done in C4D?

http://www.cgchannel.com/forum/viewthread?thread=1629&offset=29

[bobtronic]

It was also on a cover of a german grafik magazin.
Great work.

[danb]

just sendin a THANKS to SANCIOK for that great hand file using user data as the drivers for movement. god i love those user data sliders now that i figured out how to use them. especially for bone movement.

[geoffr]

Yeah, I've just had a look at that aswell. All I have to do now is figure out how to use user data and I'll be flying (oh, and figure out how to get the mesh moving correctly aswell).
He's just a fountain of useful knowledge.
I need a drink:)

[fretshredder]

Those deformations are pretty damned nice dude, excellent so far!! I only wish _I_ could do that :thumbsup:

Keep rockin'
/gz

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