Preview :: Mesh Surgery

[AdamT]

Just a note to say that I've had the opportunity to use Mesh Surgery and IMHO it is an absolute must-have for anyone who does poly modeling in Cinema. These are some awesomely useful tools, and the execution is just outstanding. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Halogen]

wow they all look very cool. I hope you will grace us with a resonably low price ;)

Good work mate, well done

[Per-Anders]

The price is likely to be $99 for the pack.

[Ibox]

well, this is good news for all of you C4D boxmodeling fanatics for sure... along with the 8.2 improvements all there is left is for ngon support and voila, one very cool app indeed :thumbsup:

[sinai_1]

These are awesome tools, i think Maxon will be making a mistake if they're not going to buy these over from you guys.

[ambient-whisper]

neato tools. love the way it shows you the resuld before you apply. and the preselection highlighting. to bad that most of the split tools are killed by the fact that theres no Ngons.

[flyingP]

Very, very, very interesting, and could just be very, very, very useful.

[ZeroNeuro]

ngons are definately necessary, even if you will have all 4 or 3 sided polys in the final mesh. It is much better to have the option of using more than 4 sides if you have to rework the geometry to give it more continuity for deformation and/or tesselation integrity.

[Cartesius]

Looks lika a must-have pack! Will there be a demo?

/Anders

[JamesMK]

Ah... uber-cool! Sounds like incredibly useful tools indeed. :thumbsup:

Too bad I can't even afford a pint of milk these days...

[designresponse]

It looks like a must have plug-in, would it be possible to use it like Dynamic Spline Projector to for example move a circle spline over a mesh and then use it to make a cut?
When will this and the Constraint plug-in be available?
thanks,
Peter

[wurp]

Very nice tools indeed, I dont use c4d myself but I can imagine these tools will be "stolen" by other apps :)

[pit]

:eek: Impressive, mdme_sadie and Paul (Dreamteam!)
I do not think that lack of N-gons will "kill" any of these tools - clean-up is clean-up. It might just boil down to work method/habit in the end.
Anyway - the toolset looks very, very useful.
How close are you to releasing this baby?

Cheers

[tapaul]

>How close are you to releasing this baby?

pretty close, the main toolset is finished.
its just all the other stuff that needs sorting now. (docs ,ect)

cheers

Paul

[pit]

Hi Paul,

If you need a hand with the docs - pdf including links and movies etc. feel free to drop me a PM. I do that stuff for a living - amongst other... and I really like what you guys got going here - can´t start to imagine what the two of you can unfold together.... scary cool! If I can be supportive let me know.

[KingMob]

man this is great stuff...cinema is really gonna be a force to be reconed with, except for one thing (maxon, please listen) support ngons... this tri business is silly, its holding back the app, when it looks ready to spring forward BIG time.

Anyways man, great looking tools, you really put some good thought into this.

I hope other app developers take heed to this stuff. (and pay you royalties of course)
:beer:

[Tottebias]

cinema needs n-gons

[ThirdEye]

Really?
Yes, C4D NEEDS NGONS!

[squidinc]

awesome work guys, I think I'll put these on the shopping list :thumbsup:

and yeah NGONS would be nice, but I'm tired of saying it :annoyed:

[tjnyc]

AWESOME! This is truly revolutionary. Wish C4D had Ngon support. This is the best set of tools I've ever seen for poly modeling.

[SheepFactory]

these plugins are indeed kickass ,

and i would like to point something out that no one has spoken about so far:

C4D needs Ngon support

[LucentDreams]

Originally posted by pit
:eek: Impressive, mdme_sadie and Paul (Dreamteam!)
I do not think that lack of N-gons will "kill" any of these tools - clean-up is clean-up. It might just boil down to work method/habit in the end.
Anyway - the toolset looks very, very useful.
How close are you to releasing this baby?

Cheers

actually having used this plugin, I have to say this is one set of tools that is really killed by not havig ngons, it can't use a triangulation method liek the regular edge cut tool, because you cna continue cutting, so instead it creates gapes, or holes, int he mesh only visible in the phong shading or in subdivision, which is the only way the tool can work right now without nogns, but is overall a bad workflow, Great tools, definitely will use them anytime I am tweaking and such in C4D

[Per-Anders]

i should mention that while it does create gaps as you cut, it also heals them as you cut (so you cut from a gap created by it, or to a gap created by it and it heals the gap for you) this means to truly end a cut with scalpel say you should go to a corner or the end of another cut. the benefit of this is that you can go back along cuts that have already been made, and it doesn't make a horrible mess of the mesh as you go around.

and to show it and how it works in aciton here's a little avi i jsut made, showing the breaking and healing of the mesh

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/healcut01.avi

[grstovell]

these are cool plugs... gotta start saving again (the price is preety good though)

By the way... and completely off topic....
would anyone here be happier with n-gons?:p

[pit]

Thanks for the heads up, Kaiskai – "Saw" works the same way, and there are ways of getting your all quads mesh with it. But you´re right, I have not worked with this pack - hmmm - you guys need another beta tester by any chance?

[AdamT]

Personally I much prefer the way Mesh Surgery deals with Cinema's limitation. Better to leave the diconnected points and let the user decide how to deal with them than to have the application whack up a bunch of tris wherever it feels like it.

I hate to be contradictory, but Cinema does not need n-gons.

Sure would be nice though. Reeeaall nice. Mmmmmm n-gons.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by AdamT

I hate to be contradictory, but Cinema does not need n-gons.


I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU

(well, not really, you know i love you :D )

[tonfarben]

Whooo! Really nice! I´ll beg my boss to buy me the plugs!
:applause: Very good work, sadie and paul (as ever)!
But OT: I read a thread here at cgtalk, where you, sadie said you are developing a tool or plugin, so that Cinema4D supports normal maps. I also watched that viedeo with the alien. I hardly can wait to have this technology implemented to Cinema and so I want to ask: How long will it take until it´s ready, how far did you go in development until now and how much does it cost, when ready?:drool:
OT2: Cinema DOES need ngons.:p

[JamesMK]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this before - but it wouldn't hurt if Cinema would support n-gons! :p

[mwa]

Hi mdme_sadie,
might be dumb now but i can't realy understand these cuts, does this mean that it's possible to have n-gons while cutting and will it in that case triangulate as soon as I exit the tool.

Your plugin looks awsome and I will most likely buy it, but can't help myself from thinking that with these tools and some kind of n-gons support atleast while modelling C4D would be my first choice for boxmodelling.

[LucentDreams]

yes and no, it doesn't triangulate when finished, it leaves it as is, meaning there is a small hole, the hole is only permanent when you complete the tool, so essentially while cutting its not technically an ngon but will function as if cutting with ngons. when you finish oyu simply create a polygon (or use the bridge tool) to patch up the new hole

[Per-Anders]

There are no n-gons, that's why that hypernurbs mesh has those folds in it there, because there's tiny breaks (or holes as kai puts it) in the mesh. The video that comes from is showing how it "heals" the mesh (no need to use bridge tool or weld tools at all) as you go around it, cutting from the broken points to other points that are already in the mesh, and healing as it goes.

[1000101]

I'm going to end up buying c4d for school I think; and its my preference to have ngons.
Mostly because I'm used to working with them in nearly every other package on the planet.

My final output may not consist of ngons; but I often have wierd shapes in the midst of modelling to help me out.

[LucentDreams]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
There are no n-gons, that's why that hypernurbs mesh has those folds in it there, because there's tiny breaks (or holes as kai puts it) in the mesh. The video that comes from is showing how it "heals" the mesh (no need to use bridge tool or weld tools at all) as you go around it, cutting from the broken points to other points that are already in the mesh, and healing as it goes.

My point is that if you leafe a spo t that appears to be an ngon and don't make a final cut from their to say a vertex or such, then the hole/tiny beak will stay, it only heals it if you cut to something that closes of the ngon.

[nhytro]

This is reallly cool! Does theat mean that one gets nice automatic selection higlighting as in Wings/Nendo?

[Per-Anders]

you get what you see in the videos :) so yes it highlights edges and points you're over within the plugin, and in selection modes you get the selections prehighlighted before you select them, and of course katana etc prehighlight the cut that will be made.

[Thalaxis]

This looks like it will be more useful than Silo, even though Silo
has n-gons and Cinema doesn't (yet?).

[LucentDreams]

Silo is useful? Maybe if you wnt maya's modeler without paying for maya. Man what a weird app though, I thought the whole I dea was better workflow, not maya workflow with a ferw improvements. The tools in here are much better then Silo's split tool too.

[Thalaxis]

Yes, Silo was quite a disappointment. Mediocre UI, awkward
workflow, and rather clumsy execution all around.

At least it's quick and stable, and has some nice features... they
just aren't any fun to use, IMO.

MeshSurger nicely made up for the disappointment, though :)

[nhytro]

WooooooPaaa! Automatic highlighting! It´s price is a little steep for me, but I think its one step towards "weaning" me off Wings/Nendo. When it comes to speed modelling, there is´nt anything that touches these modelers.


Originally posted by mdme_sadie
you get what you see in the videos :) so yes it highlights edges and points you're over within the plugin, and in selection modes you get the selections prehighlighted before you select them, and of course katana etc prehighlight the cut that will be made.

[sebek27]

wow awesome tools !! starting to remind me of the great poly tools Max has... now all we need is.... ngons...

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by nhytro
WooooooPaaa! Automatic highlighting! It´s price is a little steep for me, but I think its one step towards "weaning" me off Wings/Nendo. When it comes to speed modelling, there is´nt anything that touches these modelers.

just to 100% clarify, you wont get auto highlighting outside of the plugin. it's just with the plugins own tools, i.e. scalpel, katana, jigsaw, edge loop, poly loop, and point loop that highlighting will occur.

[tjnyc]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but will there be a demo version so we can try this out?

Thanks,

[Per-Anders]

there will be several videos, and the manual available for download, but at the moment it is not planned to have a demo version.

[tjnyc]

Thanks mdme_sadie,

I'll most likely buy it anyway, but a demo would still have been nice. When can we expect the release? Very anxious :)

[acmepixel]

Please forgive my ignorance, but how does this differ from Samir's DeepCutLiner plugin?

[novice]

Dears Paul

As a Developer I realy admire you but

I don't know if Alias wavefront gonna SUE you or not but this is definitly STEALING not adding features .

These Tools and actions have been in Maya since version 3 Split Polygon tool is not something new nor insert isoparm and .....you are talking about these like you INVENTED them.

This is not the first time you doing this and I believe not gonna be the last.

Next time you wanted to annouce somthing like this or visual selector (which is stolen from Softimage XSI)
make sure that none of CINEMA 4D Users are working with any other application,Then proudly present your plug-ins.

[Per-Anders]

Dear Novice,

Aside from your rudeness, you're also wrong.

If Alias wish to come after someone it will be me, Per-Anders Edwards. There are three new things in these tools not found anywhere else, however neither I nor Paul claimed to have invented any of the other tools (although ours is rather faster than any competition, easier to use and better thought out even if i do say so myself).

So lets have a look at the three brand new tools, not found anywhere else.

Projection split - This is where our split poly tool is allowed to cut accross more than a single poly at a go. Since when has Maya been able to do this? (also since when has Alias pathetic attempt at a split poly tool been able to go back along it's own cuts?)

Extended cuts - This is where a cut is extended out from the original split as seen in the first movie. Again I have not seen another app do this.

Superflange - You somehow think this is insert isoparm! LOL. Cinema is a Poly Modeler, it's NURBs are quite frankly a Joke. You are watching poly's being split here, nothing else. And since when has any cutting tool aside from Mesh Surgery ever been able to shift the points and maintain continuity or even sculpt the form? Superflange is brand new and not seen anywhere else.

So apart from that, the instant loop (does maya even have edge loop? thought it only had edge ring inbuilt). Realtime feedback.... so yes, we have invented several things here. The other inovations here are speed and interactivity, but that sort of thing hardly passes as inovation in my book, we just make things better (yes faster and easier to use than XSI or the terminally slow Maya).

I can tell you that I'va had quite a few experienced Maya users come to me asking if and when i will be porting Mesh Surgery to Maya. I suggest you learn your app a little better next time before making unfounded accusations.


As for Pauls Visual selector. I find it interesting you think it was stolen from XSI. I beleive a number of people from ILM were very interested in visual selector for the simple fact that they had not worked with anything so nice before.

[chris_b]

The name 'novice' pretty much sums it up. Assuming, however, that a novice is willing to learn a thing or two, it is nice of you to contribute your time in helping him along the way.

Have another look at Mesh Surgery, these tools do not indeed exist in any current 3d package...
though they will probably soon be copied.

Any updates on a release date Per?

[Per-Anders]

We are in the process of writing the manual, and setting up a website for the sale of Mesh Surgery, so hopefully within the next couple of weeks.

[Katachi]

I want to say something for the definition of stealing. Stealing means: taking the code of another person/programmer/developer and sell it as if it were yours.

If they didn´t do it, it´s no stealing. Period.

If you try to develop something that is already available in a similar form and you make it better (or worse ;) than this is called competition, though there might be borders...

If we wouldn´t do it, there would probably never be a high-end app available, for almost any 3d application invented new tools. Example N-Gons: I don´t really know which application had the first N-Gons, but now almost all apps do have them. Now, do you want to say that they have maybe stolen N-Gons?

Not really...

When "small" companies/developers do a similar thing people start saying "it´s stolen" but in the meantime they want features in their favorite app that are available in other apps for a long time...

pretty paradox I think.

For me there´s one rule I try to follow (although it doesn´t always work out):
Live and let live. But set borders...

My 2 Cents...

Best
Samir

[ambient-whisper]

visual selector.. you mean that pre-selection highlighting?

[Per-Anders]

Exactly Samir! And as a case in point, Samir has his own Split poly tool called DeepCutLiner which you can buy directly form his store.

Now Mesh surgery covers some of the ground that DeepCutLiner does, but it's split poly tool works in a different way, each tool has it's own strengths and weaknesses. One thing with the competition will be that DeepCutLiner is about half the price of Mesh Surgery. ($49 is i believe what Samir is asking for his tool). But Mesh surgery works in a different way that may suit some more and consists of 7 plugins (DeepCutLiner consists of two). So it's up to the user what they want. Obviously if you were to talk to me I'd say "Get Mesh Surgery because of this, this, this and this", but that's developers privelage, Samir has the right to be saying "Get DeepCutLiner because of n, n, n and n". Neither tool uses code used in the other, each tool is unique within the application in question (and may suit a different situation better), neither Scalpel nor DeepcutLiner are inherently new concepts (but the implementation is new with both, and may have features not found elsewhere). Both tools will be competing within the same market. They do a similar thing, but they are different.

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
visual selector.. you mean that pre-selection highlighting?

No, Visual selector is one of Pauls older plugins, follow this link : http://www.tools4d.com/visualselector/lopolo/perfect.htm

[tapaul]

>definitly STEALING not adding features .

cheeky git


>These Tools and actions have been in Maya since version 3

have they?
I tried the PLE version of maya and didnt see mesh surgery in there (before i trashed it from my HD)


>Split Polygon tool is not something new

its not about being new , but more about the how you do it.
the car was invented ages ago , its been improved and reproduced (and the 4 wheel concept just stolen ) by every car maker on the planet.


>you are talking about these like you INVENTED them.
firstly im not doing a lot of talking.

secondly where did I or per say we invented anything new that couldnt already be done by app X (apart from superflange wich is a patent pending , or should be)?

>This is not the first time you doing this and I believe not gonna >be the last.
waaaaat now , bring it on................

>Next time you wanted to annouce somthing like this or visual >selector (which is stolen from Softimage XSI)
its not stolen from anything.
the concept of using a image and hotspots as visual reference
for large scene management is not gonna be new and not owned by any patent holders that I know of.
its not meant to be new to the world , just new to cinema.
and for what it counts , if you owned VS , which you do not , you would see that there are several features in there , which no other app on the planet has or does.


what a nasty post !!!
ooo , I feel like doctor Evil.

cheers

Paul Everett
www.tools4d.ocm

[JDex]

Hey now, can we get back on topic...

C4D needs n-gons.:D

Really interesting toolset there guys... I know your not gonna like to hear this but boy I can't wait to see thes tools implemented in other apps... maybe to beat the curve, you should put them together for the other apps yourself and create a line of modeling addons...

Keep up the good work:thumbsup:

[astrofish]

Thank god developers of/for different apps get inspiration from and improve upon each other's work - that's why we've got decent apps.

Imagine what it would be like if the CG world went patent crazy, and no one was allowed to build upon other peoples ideas, the end results would be a bunch of dysfunctional apps that would be useless.

Yes, they'd all have a bunch of unique tools, but none of them would have enough features to be able to do anything useful.

I totally agree that copyright violation - i.e. stealing someone else's code - is wrong.

On the other hand, taking inspiration from other people's work, and writing _your own code_ which implements an improved version of something is not only perfectly reasonable, it's the way software progresses.

In case you hadn't noticed, this attitude that people shouldn't be allowed to write code that improves upon what's already out there really annoys me...

If people were only allowed to write software that was _completely_ original, you'd never see any more software...

If people were only allowed to produce images that were _completely_ original, you'd never see any more art...



Cheers - Steve

[squidinc]

Originally posted by novice
Dears Paul

As a Developer I realy admire you but

I don't know if Alias wavefront gonna SUE you or not but this is definitly STEALING not adding features .

These Tools and actions have been in Maya since version 3 Split Polygon tool is not something new nor insert isoparm and .....you are talking about these like you INVENTED them.

This is not the first time you doing this and I believe not gonna be the last.

Next time you wanted to annouce somthing like this or visual selector (which is stolen from Softimage XSI)
make sure that none of CINEMA 4D Users are working with any other application,Then proudly present your plug-ins.

spoken like a true novice, I doubt your opinion will mean much here anymore

[shapeshifter]

Originally posted by JDex
maybe to beat the curve, you should put them together for the other apps yourself and create a line of modeling addons...

That would be great! I have no idea how hard it is to implement such tools but I would definately consider buying such a plug-in add-on...

Really cool tools! (only if they were for XSI... ;) )

[JDex]

Originally posted by shapeshifter
That would be great! I have no idea how hard it is to implement such tools but I would definately consider buying such a plug-in add-on...

Really cool tools! (only if they were for XSI... ;) )

XSI and Wings3d are my vote... if you're counting. :wavey:

[mbaldwin]

excuse my ignorance, but I have a dusty copy of c4d 6 for mac that I was interested in upgrading--getting a chance to use your plugs is the thing that'll finally get me to commit.

Will mesh surgury be available on MacOSX?

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by mbaldwin
Will mesh surgury be available on MacOSX?

yes.

[JIII]

how could you people steal such godlike tools from the uber app of all time maya, shame on you.

just kidding.

[Siddhy]

these stupid talk of "stealing" tools reminds me of the ongoing debate (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60245,00.html) about patents on "computer-implemented inventions" in europe. imagine patents on things like progressbars and windowbuttons :(

[JIII]

money is the root of all friends being split apart forever.

which is evil, but money is the root of all evil is too over used.

ya well it makes sense I mean if you can prove a basic feature belongs to you than boom. you can kill the entire app if you want to...

[Erik Heyninck]

First cut is the deepest.
(this unites both directions of this thread).
I re-read the other postings by Novice and they are helpful and well written. Which is why I don't understand this over reaction at all. May have been a bad day (as we all have sometimes).

As for the plugin: if it does what I can imagine, it looks incredible. And I suppose it can do even more...
I have, and like, Samir's DCL, but I am tempted indeed...

[LucentDreams]

no to mention that maya is not the only app that has some sort of a split tool. XSI, Max both have an identical one too, the new silo, clay has had one since its inception really, its just like you guys asking for ngons its a feature al apps have in one way or another, but PA did an impressive job of making it do more. I mena I don't know any app that has an ability like suprflange and katana takes out the step of selecting an edge, hitting ring, then changing tools before doing your edge cut, sure makes things fast.

[AdamT]

and katana takes out the step of selecting an edge, hitting ring, then changing tools before doing your edge cut, sure makes things fast.
Not to mention that Katana lets you place the new loop anywhere you want between the existing loops--unlike Edge Cut--and it's interactive and non-modal--unlike Saw.

[flingster]

how the hell did i miss this thread!!!!
anyway good work guys...i bought samirs deepcutliner awhile ago and its one of my favourite and most functional plugs i have....so having seen your new plugins suite it certainly looks to extend this functionality...i also actually like the look of those selection tools.

my only comment would be please please support this with excellent documentation...always helps imho to love or hate a plugin....unfortunately its the least glamourous part i suppose.
good luck with it...and look forward to it release.
:beer: :beer:


novice: you crack me up bud...you having a laugh or what...heh heh...:eek:

[Per-Anders]

Just to keep your appetites whetted, here's a little example of the Linear version of Superflange (it comes in linear and bezier varieties) with katana... me modelling a candlestick from a sphere using katana only

movie is about 4.6mb in size

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/linearsuperflange.mov

[michaeli]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
Just to keep your appetites whetted, here's a little example of the Linear version of Superflange (it comes in linear and bezier varieties) with katana... me modelling a candlestick from a sphere using katana only

movie is about 4.6mb in size

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/linearsuperflange.mov


So cooooooooool !!!
:drool: :drool: :drool:

[Anadin]

This really looks great, cannot wait, should streamline my toolbar somewhat!

[Cartesius]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/linearsuperflange.mov

Hmmm... The link seems to be broken for the time being.

/Anders

[Per-Anders]

Should be working now

[danb]

i hope this is a neutral question. How come these tools , deep cut liner, and mesh surgery, are not in the core of cinema 4d? similar features are in core programs of other 3d appz. this may be difficult to explain and i understand if people get mad at this question.

[sebek27]

i hope this is a neutral question. How come these tools , deep cut liner, and mesh surgery, are not in the core of cinema 4d? similar features are in core programs of other 3d appz. this may be difficult to explain and i understand if people get mad at this question.

you can ask this question in LW, MAX, Maya, XSI when they release some plugin that is already available in other apps... these are designed to make the modeling faster and easier; other apps update with new plugins also.


By the way, is the scalpel tool really kind of the same as the deep cut liner ? or would you still get deep cut liner along with mesh surgery ?

[AdamT]

There's no equivalent tool to DeepLiner in Mesh Surgery. But IMO, scalpel does everything that DeepCut does and more, and the workflow is much better. OTOH, DeepCut does do the job and it's less expensive.

[adeptus minor]

This is on my to get list. Looks like it will make modeling alot faster. Whats the ETA on Mesh? Danb I belive that alot of other apps will be knocken on Mdme_Sadies door for this one

[Thalaxis]

Originally posted by adeptus minor
This is on my to get list. Looks like it will make modeling alot faster. Whats the ETA on Mesh? Danb I belive that alot of other apps will be knocken on Mdme_Sadies door for this one

That wouldn't surprise me; a great many people will know a good
tool when they see it. :)

[JIII]

DAMN whoa thats one mighty superflange you have got there.

Very aptly named dude great great plugin.

I always suspected you were a genius :)

[tapaul]

http://www.tools4d.com/MeshSurgery/videos/flange2.mov

that shows the super flange in operation.
there is no other tool on the planet that can do this (as far as I know)

so you are buying something new and exclusive (not just to cinema)

cheers

Paul

[ODoul]

Looks extremely useful. Missed this thread until now. Glad I caught it. -- 3d_e

[adeptus minor]

aaahhh!!
I love that super flange. I dont think I will ever grow up I still love toys mainly usefull ones. Its like getting a GI Joe or Transformer and then getting Joes tank battle fortress, cybertron whatever C4D to shaders and mesh surgery. YEHH its all the same.

[JIII]

except one comes in a box and is made of plastic.

[adeptus minor]

OUCH!!:wip:

[Per-Anders]

Just to remind you and keep your appetites whetted... a few people seemed fairly keen on the idea of hinge extrude...

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/hingeextrude01.mov


(...more to come)

[Per-Anders]

now others said they would like to be able to rotate scale or move around any edge in the mesh.... and that... oh... soft selections might be quite a nice thing to have in cinema (spherical, linear, planar, vertex map)...

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/softselections01.mov

[lllab]

when will we be able to buy this super thing ;-)?

cheers

lllab
stefan

[GXC]

any ideas when it culd come out?

[flingster]

oh my god...what the hell are you guys doing...totally reworking the modelling toolset...KEEP IT UP!!! looks like mouth watering stuff....:love: :love: :love:

[wesware]

If we can all master the possibilities of these tools, I think you will see an incredible jump in the quality of models around here

[kiwi]

Ya I agree :) ..not to mention the fact that Maxon have to keep pace and make some extra nice goodies for XL9 :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Originally posted by wesware
If we can all master the possibilities of these tools, I think you will see an incredible jump in the quality of models around here

Hey Wes! I'll be honest that I was as surprised as the rest of ya about these latest additions, but all the other tools are total simplicity to use. You could master the mechanics of them in < 1 hr.

[dAfTiE]

Man,these tools look freakin SEXY!
Both the softselections and the superflange stuff looks amazing,
and katana...and...and...damnit,I need to start saving up some money,so less :beer: for me...

Thanks guys!:buttrock: :applause: :buttrock:

[Cartesius]

OK, these latest clips sold me as well -- when's the release date?

/Anders

[neilyb]

Having recently used Maya I can honestly say....WHEN CAN WE HAVE 'EM??????? Flange looks like the answer to my prayers.....to the god of 3D heaven!

[sinai_1]

The soft selection tool on its own is a"oneman riot squard(tool)"; i once saw a video tut of Max's "soft selection and cut tool" and it rocked my Cinema instinct.....

This is giant leap in the right direction,..can't wait to start using them....

[Jake-L]

Yes,

After several days of intense polygon wrangling, I too come running home to Ma.
Throughout last week I sorely missed some kind of edge hinging capability...and then saw this :eek:

Whenwhenwhen?? :drool:

[wesware]

Originally posted by AdamT
Hey Wes! I'll be honest that I was as surprised as the rest of ya about these latest additions, but all the other tools are total simplicity to use. You could master the mechanics of them in < 1 hr.

Sweeet, Adam. I think there is a difference between understanding the basic functions of a tool and how they affect a cube or sphere and going beyond that to using them in innovative ways to form a head or thigh muscles or engine parts. (Long sentence?) There are some pretty smart people here using Cinema and I'm sure we'll be seeing some brilliant modeling.

Not to get too "hyper-spazzy" but I am getting very excited about these tools. They are truly just what I need right now. Now if I can just get an arm to animate straight to its target and not take a giant arc to get there :)

[AdamT]

Originally posted by wesware
Sweeet, Adam. I think there is a difference between understanding the basic functions of a tool and how they affect a cube or sphere and going beyond that to using them in innovative ways to form a head or thigh muscles or engine parts.

So true. I know how to use a car, but you won't see me in the Indianapolis 500 any time soon. :)

[ThirdEye]

These tools are absolutely amazing, i've seen em growing up and i can assure you they've become stable, powerful and very intuitive. I have to say i was a bit hesitant during the first alpha stage when mdme started writing the code, but now i can't model anything without using this fantastic tool. I bugged PA so much that he felt he could add the new hinge from edge tool, and i instantly fell in love with it. Now we can't envy anything to other poly modelers (well, except ngons obviously), let's start to produce some kick ass stuff ;)

[nataz]

i LOVE it already...:buttrock:

Regarding the manuals i may help you translate it in french if needed ... will work for modeling :D !

[squidinc]

maxon better integrate these with R9, my wallet is at the ready, just say when :)

[Tronam]

I'm also eagerly looking forward to this plugin pack! It will quite possibly be one of the biggest modelling boosts to C4D we have seen in a long time. Much like SLA (which we probably all take for granted now), once it's released we will all probably wonder how we ever survived without it. Do we have any kind of ETA for release yet?

-Tronam

[JIII]

better yet why doesn't maxon just hire darf sadie and paul?

I mean come on they are a big reason why people have bought or will buy cinema.

Anyway I would like to see it happen.

[Per-Anders]

So now for some new movies... first off, lets see a nice display of planar soft selection with HInge Move set to screen mode...

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/planarfalloff.mov

fast and sinple eh?

Now then what about a nice example of Mesh Brush in action... a nice fully scriptable brushing tool that uses soft selections, and can even attempt to maintain (admitedly in a messy way) the mesh density if you want it to... oh and yes... we can lock soft selections where we please ;) here in normal move mode with mesh density maintained

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/geometryadd01.mov

now then yes i did say the mesh brush is scriptable, and yup that means you can abuse it to not just move points around ;) (this is about 20 lines of script... if that).

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/meshbrushscript01.mov

[Monty]

My goodness. Are you folks trying to write version 9 by yourselves? :eek:

[brammelo]

Per, stop teasing us and make that damned thing available! You had us with the first post, no need to make us drool even more.

(just trying to say i'm still impressed).

Bowing for the Scripting Lords (and thanks to SoftIK I can finally reach my toes again),
BaRa

[flingster]

thats some evil toolset development...starting to pop my tiny head!!:eek:

[FreWe]

This is the most impressive and must-have add-on for C4D. :drool:

How long will you torture us before we can buy it? :scream:

[Erik Heyninck]

Just couldn't believe my eyes... :buttrock:

I wonder which will be first: Mesharray, Ditools or this one...:

anyway: :applause:

[reddrake]

Wow, Mesh Surgery does look amazing! It seems like every week or so something is being added to it. Can't wait to try it out!

Richard

[WQP]

I think Maxon should just drive a dump truck full of cash over to your house and make this thing a standard part of C4D!

[wesware]

Stop! Stop!... I feel like I'm going to have to learn a whole new program!

Ok..keep going, just sell us what you have before it costs as much as Cinema.

[squidinc]

you guys are f@#king genius :thumbsup:
sell this thing already :eek:

[neods]

have to say that it looks amazing, and really functional, with the brushes and all. cant wait for it..

[manlio]

Really fantastic, the best plug so far. With this plug in Cinema it is very near to Maya modeling solutions (and maybe better). :applause: :thumbsup:

[tjnyc]

Forget the documentation, I want to buy this plugin now, I will gladly wait for the docs to come later. :thumbsup:

[wesware]

Hey Squid... both of our Avatars look like they are getting rectal exams... :surprised

Back to the PLUG!!!

[michaeli]

Originally posted by WQP
I think Maxon should just drive a dump truck full of cash over to your house and make this thing a standard part of C4D!

:thumbsup:

[JIII]

good god if that mesh thingy only made quads or we just had NGONS this thing would be amazing.

damn dude I second that are you trying to write R9 yourselves?

[Tronam]

Is it just me, or has all of this tri-phobia been blown way out of proportion? Perhaps I've just not done enough character animation to hate them yet, but I've never found it to be that big of a deal to shift some triangles out of the way if necessary. Why is everyone so obsessed with this?

-Tronam

[JIII]

it doesn't smooth well hyperNURBS when you have mega tris.

[medula]

:drool: I am Jacks hanging tongue :drool:

My credit card is twitching!

[squidinc]

Why is everyone so obsessed with this?

because most other apps can deal with ngons in one way or another, all of which are better than maxon's solution, which is to convert them into messy triangles, try extruding text in C4D and have a look at the wireframe it makes

[rbf229]

It seems to me that this isn't just your run of the mill third party plug-in but rather a module. It appears Mesh Surgery does for the modeling tools what Mocca does for character animation or what Advanced Render does for rendering. I recently purchased C4D XL and have been very pleased with it. But after playing around with Maya PLE I felt Cinema was missing some of the advanced modeling ability that I found in the Alias product. However, Mesh Surgery goes a long way to changing that. I'm looking forward to using it. Very nice work, gentleman.
I've seen so many of your demo reels I've managed to get lost. Did I see a "sculpting" tool and something that resembles soft selection in there somewhere? Also, if you make another reel, do you think you could use the tools on something more organic like a loft (and while it's in a Hyper Nurb)? Forgive me if none of this make any sense, I'm new to this. I don't even know what an N-gon is.

[Kirl]

Who needs documentation anyway, get this thing out here already... :D

[sebek27]

Squidinc: do you model your great characters poly by poly and have you ever animated any of them, Fleeb might be interesting animated..

[squidinc]

Originally posted by sebek27
Squidinc: do you model your great characters poly by poly and have you ever animated any of them, Fleeb might be interesting animated..

box modelled, which is why I gotta get my hands on all these new toys :D

( and funny you should pick that character, it's the only one I made in 3dsmax :D )

[Erik Heyninck]

an n-gon is a polygon with n sides, and in this context it is used for polygons that have more than four sides.

Using traingular polygons is a problem in hypernurbs as indeed they do not smooth well.
When rendering hypernurbs, its geometry is converted to polygons, and I suppose that the problems lies there. Often, it is very difficult to avoid triangles. That is why Maxon advises to use them as sparingly as possible and by preference small and in parts of the mesh where the tri is surrounded by many quads (four-sided) polygons.

[bobtronic]

The funny thing is that per definition polygon and n-gon
are the same. Three-sided polygons are problematic
because of the tesselation algorithm (sub-dividing).
Here is an interesting thread with some brainmelting
stuff about this topic:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90491

Bob

[Thalaxis]

Originally posted by bobtronic
The funny thing is that per definition polygon and n-gon
are the same.


They are not quite exactly the same, by definition... because while
all triangles are n-gons (where n=3), not all n-gons are triangles,
because n could be anything from 3 to infinity, at least in theory.

If they were entirely identical, the entire n-gon support issue
would not exist, I think.

[brammelo]

Originally posted by Thalaxis
They are not quite exactly the same, by definition... because while
all triangles are n-gons (where n=3), not all n-gons are triangles,
because n could be anything from 3 to infinity, at least in theory.

If they were entirely identical, the entire n-gon support issue
would not exist, I think.

You misread, I fear. The statement was that POLY-gons and N-gons are actually one and the same thing, because POLY and the prefix "N" both mean "multiple". It was never stated that every polygon or N-gon was a triangle. ;)

Cheers,
BaRa

[JIII]

well they might not be technically different. They are more and more accepted as different. This is obviously ungrammatical as heck, its still a fact of life that alot of folks use poly to mean quad and n to mean 5+.

[Per-Anders]

just a little titbit for you guys. some wondered about the speed of meshbrush... well, this is a sphere with 80k polys using the smear mode played back in realtime...

http://www.peranders.com/c4d8/samples/mov/smear.avi

of course if i switch the soft selection preview off or go to wireframe mode it's rather silkier still.

[manlio]

As usual impressive. A release date? One month, one week, one day?...
Thanks :thumbsup:

[nataz]

Originally posted by manlio
As usual impressive. A release date? One month, one week, one day?...

now? ;)

[flingster]

is your intention here to make those zbrush sphere things for cinema????
:shrug:

[squidinc]

dammit, sell it already :surprised :D

I give you 5 dollar

[chris_b]

I feel your pain.

...but these tools are definitely going to be worth the wait. Every extra day spent waiting means a faster, more useable, and more full-featured tool suite.

This plugin is set is revolutionary.

:applause:

[Erik Heyninck]

Ahhh...I still emember Mme Sadie's remark on that architectural drawing application: "Maxon should buy this before someone else does!"
And then an omni light flashed on and this is the result.
Breathtaking!

[flingster]

was it this you mean..SketchUp.
http://www.sketch3d.com/
:buttrock:

[xeno]

Holyshit! That smear feature is going to change the way people model in cinema! At least, it has the power to do so!

awesome awesome work!

[Erik Heyninck]

Yessss...Sketch3D...that was it...:applause:

[Neoklassik]

I really could have used this plug for a project last week. Hopefully soon....

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