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Ebola0001
08-24-2003, 12:22 PM
Well hello again talking to you live from my chair in the living room.

Seriously though, this is my first real attempt at a quad modeled sub-d model so I chose the overdone regular female body.

I am happy with the way it turned out, but have learned a few things... breasts are surprisingly hard to get the shape right, quads bite, Boolean operations are not your friend, quads suck to work with, a "simple" project can stretch on into the whole day, and oh yeah... I HATE working in quads.

Now with that said this is what she looks like right now

http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-render.jpg
wire hi (http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-wirehi.jpg)
wire low (http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-wirelow.jpg)

metal version (shows form really well (http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-oscargold.jpg)

This one is showing how I built the limbs... I didn't use edge "loops" per se, I used one long edge string spiraled down the leg (show here), with parallels running down the leg to form the quads.
http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-limbspiral.jpg


Now with these shown... I guess I need you to tell me everything that I did wrong from anatomy to the "skin" shader, to better ways to place edges to get better results.

I am going to rig and animate her (as is) tomorrow

Now pay no attention to the hands, and feet, and lack of head they are just placeholders till I feel like going back and refining them, this exercise was for the body, hands feet and heads are separate arts unto themselves.

Program: Truespace 5.2
Build time: ~8 hrs

mora
08-24-2003, 07:18 PM
I'm surprised to see this in the focused critique section.The mesh has a 101 total wrong things to be corrected.But it all depends what your output is intended to be - realistic,semi-realistic or cartoony. Your anatomy just AAARRGH! ....

I would suggest that you open up some anatomy medical books,or purchase some figure drawing book from a book store,Amazon.com or download pictures from the net.Then you can begin modelling.You have to study the muscle groups first.

I'm a max user so I'm unable to help you with truespace.But I'm sure your third try will be better,third time's always a charm:thumbsup:

my focused critique

Ebola0001
08-24-2003, 08:36 PM
so 101 problems eh... i would like to know them

it is in the focused critiques forum because i am trying to get better.

what is wrong with the anatomy that woud say AARGH!

actually my goal was realistic.

and actually

and what am i missing about the muscle groups...?

actually making comments helps rather than just saying "well it sucks try again"

cybernaut
08-24-2003, 09:40 PM
A good first attempt!

(I also use a different program called Lightwave)

It's a little tricky to make precise proportional comments when the head is missing in such an unusual way. The addition of the head really helps to gauge proper proportion and determine things like: overall height, arm length, shoulder width, even leg length. Aside form that oddity I will attempt to give some sort of advice. :)

From the profile shot I can see that her torso to leg length proportion is fairly accurate and that the balance line of her body is quite good. I would imagine she is about 5'4. From the small front shot you posted the proportions look a bit different. Her legs still look good but her hip area looks stretched vertically making it appear that her torso is too long in relation to her legs; although, it could just be the perspective from the camera angle.

From the front and profile shots it appears that her rib cage is too big. If this is a young slender girl then she will probably have a more petite torso. The wide position of her breasts may also be making her torso seem large. Moving the bust together a bit will I think her give her a more petite and feminine torso shape.

Probably one of the areas that need the most work is the shoulder area and the way it connects to the arms and the breasts. This is where having the head makes it easier to determine if the position of things like the arms or breasts need to be raised or lowered. What I would suggest is get some sort of head and neck in place, that way you can more clearly see the position of the shoulders etc. However, from the shots you have here I would say that either the shoulders are too high or the bust is too low, its hard to tell, get that head in there.

If you could post some larger orthographic front and side shots (with the head) it would make judging proportion much easier. Post some wires to if you can.

Keep up the good work!!! :thumbsup:

kerosene
08-25-2003, 05:31 AM
Firts to Mora. I don't think that the idea of focused critiques forum is that it is only for advanced users. It is for people who are not diaplaying their works to get oohhss and aahhss, but want critique to improve their works/skills. The level you are at doesn't make the point but the fact that you want ti get further.

and the second idea of focused critiques is the focused critiques that the other users are supposed to give. It is also strongly suggested (if not even mandatory) that you either link related info or images to help. Your "man there is so much wrong that I can't even start" is not encouraging or constructive critisism.

Of my idea of this forum is wrong I am happy to hear it.

then to the critiques.


Yes the anatomy has serious problems. The basic form is quite ok. The shape of thighs and legs seems actually quite good.

The biggest problems are in brest, shoulder and upper back. Especially the shoulder are weird. The arm is somewhat pointed upwards instead of horizontal and the deltoid (shoulder muscle) is on the arm way too "low". Look at the pick below:

http://www.3d.sk/femaleanatomy/TN_female_anatomy006.JPG

I would also strongly suggest adding polys in the groin or crotch. Now the legs end in sharp V and that is not gonna deform nicely. I don't know how you are doing the skinning, but spreading the legs might do it much easier.

good site for reference is:
http://www.fineart.sk

this pic is good for female muscles:
http://www.fineart.sk/anatomy4artist52.jpg


cheers,

Heikki

kerosene
08-25-2003, 05:43 AM
this is very rough paint over.

Do not consider changes made here as "finished"

-The gap between legs.

- the hip cros section curved the other way round

- the arm position fixed slightly - look for good wires from good models for the dhoulders. The amount of geometry and the flow you have will not deform nicely.

Heikki

Ebola0001
08-25-2003, 10:04 AM
Well this is what she looks like tonight... I didn't have much luck rigging her... it was fighting me... or I was just tired.

http://www.woodrell.com/joe/ebola-fem-new.jpg

I added the head (mostly placeholder) to judge proportions and I also lowered her shoulder line a smidge because with the head it just looked to high

Anyway this is where I am... comments still welcome, and needed.

mora
08-25-2003, 01:22 PM
by keroseneFirts to Mora. I don't think that the idea of focused critiques forum is that it is only for advanced users. It is for people who are not diaplaying their works to get oohhss and aahhss, but want critique to improve their works/skills. The level you are at doesn't make the point but the fact that you want ti get further.

Yup,agreed.So now this project has to finish.If it does'nt I need a kiss. First up, Ebola0001 said he's mainly doing the body,head and limbs are just placeholders,so mr smarty pants should not comment on things other than the body

Lets start with the body,stuff you need to now

1) female belly button is always below waist line
2)breast come in multiple shapes,choose a breast shape and model it
3)shoulder muscles should look attached to the chest near the arm pit.

about your breasts,they should meet together in the middle,your mesh seems to look like it's a flat chest puffed up with silicone.

I'm in the process of getting some grafix for you,I wont use copyrighted material,or maybe I might:p

Ebola0001
08-25-2003, 07:36 PM
no the limbs are in there to... just not the head hands and feet right now, most women have a space between their breasts, only in a bar are they pushed together... and the space on my model matches my refrence girl...,

i may puch em together if i clothe her (gonna have to) but for now its just for fun

MDuffy
08-25-2003, 09:41 PM
The spiral edge loop going down the leg would totally suck to try to weight. Instead of having a cross-section which is pretty much weighted the same to the upper and lower leg bones across the entire cross-section, with a spiral you will have to weight each vertex individually because each is a different distance to the joint.

As far as the model itself goes, it looks like you need to visualize the anatomy below the skin better. Think about where the rib cage, clavicle, humerus, and scapula lie. Think about where the muscles hook into the pelvis bone.

Also don't worry about trying to rig this sucker until you get all the modeling down.


Cheers,
Michael Duffy
mduffy@ionet.net

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