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R.Vor
08-23-2003, 03:26 PM
Hello

I was looking at Final Fantasy and some other upcoming 3d films
And in all of them was Tranparent Hair...
Maybe somebody know a good tutorial how to draw and make them ? :beer:

Thanks
R.Vor

Batsu
08-27-2003, 06:53 PM
what do you mean with transparent hair?

If im not mistaken the hair in FF was made modeling each of the 60.000 hairs.

R.Vor
08-27-2003, 08:41 PM
If I`m not mistaken... They where made woth opacity maps... or some interesting way with transparency LOOK http://www.digitalsculptor.net/FinalFantasyMovie/finalfantasy.html
Look at shaded Aki :)
P.S isn`t she pretty :drool:

Batsu
08-28-2003, 05:56 AM
i gues that when you say oppacity maps you are meaning textures with alpha channel, is that what u r meaning?

The shadowing, multidimensional layering, and all-too-human facial flaws are mind-numbing when one considers the amount of complexity and detail that goes into the effort. Aki has some 60,000 strands of hair that each move independently when the wind blows. According to producer Chris Lee, nearly 20 percent of the film's ballparked, $100-million budget went into work on Aki's hair. (Talk about an expensive coif!) "If the sea effects in The Perfect Storm is Hollywood's water software, well then we've got the hair software." Even so, while the imagery is haunting, it's still not quite the real thing. At one glimpse, Aki is the ideal woman everything to every man. But take another look and she's too good to be true flat and doll-like.
The image in the page must be to give groups of hair the same lenght and...form, but then they model them separately with a plugin (they made a special hair plugin for maya)

gooood images in that page :beer:
shes really puuurty :love:

R.Vor
08-28-2003, 09:04 AM
OK yep I wad mistaken !
Big thanks... but in Ice age how did they make fur or what is the best way too create hair for short and full motion animations with small budget ???:hmm:

R.Vor
08-28-2003, 09:07 AM
And yea I`m meaning Alpha channel :wavey:
And 10x for the reply...

Batsu
08-28-2003, 06:36 PM
Hummmmm....i guess they could have used ShagFur for the fur in Ice Age, also u can try using ShagHair to see if yo like how it gets it done. I havent done any hair yet so i cant really help in these kind of things, im too new to this modeling stuff, sorry :blush:

eYadNesS
08-29-2003, 02:18 AM
The hair in Final Fantasy the spirit within made from Polygon (as a shape) and from carves...
Then they just texture the polygon, and used PaintFX in the carves...
THERE IS NO Tranparent Hair!!!

When you see the hair fly in the air, the carves just moving holding the paintFX

And you can see the wrongs in FF:TSW when Aki make her head down, the polygon don't move over her neck...

You can see this thrad for FF:TSW hair:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72623&highlight=final+fantasy+hair


And see my the secand page of my sideshow challenge, I have made the hair like FF:TSW techniques:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81351&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Batsu
08-31-2003, 04:58 AM
Thx for the links eyadness! great stuff in the final fantasy link!
One question about the siggraph book, i downloaded it but it gives me an error in the 153 page about the font :hmm:
Do you have the same problem? i'll try later to see in Linux has the same problem....

Great work in your Sabrina character, got a question thou, the hair modeling u r using isnt the same as the FF: TSW. Arent u using splines like in Shag Hair? i dont see the rough polygons to define the hair style, what am i missing? :shrug:

eYadNesS
08-31-2003, 06:23 PM
Hi Batsu,
First about the book, do you mean the book that from RenderMan website (did you see the link from FF:TSW hair thread)?
About this book I have download it, and I don't have any errors...
It's really a good book, in the same time not useful book!

Secand thanks very much for your comments about my Sabrina character :)

Now about my method in creating the hair... it's a long story.......... Just start a little.
Now I will show you how Squaresoft had made Aki hair, look to this picture down:

http://images.deviantart.com/i/b/f/2/aki_hair_test.jpg

I will talk about the modeling (not animation), about the geometry it the main shape of the hair and squaresoft put a shader over it, and about the curves it's the single hair and it's connected with paintFX.
About me in my Sabrina character, I have made the shape form curves, you will ask me why, just becasue I don't have a time in this challenge, and I'm spending my time in modeling!

Really I don't know what to talk more, but If you have any comments, just post it, I hope I can help you :)

Batsu
09-01-2003, 07:07 PM
Yes, the book i was talking about is one about renderman that was posted in a link in the FF:TSW Hair thread but it was a link to a siggraph website if im not mistaken. Either way it must be my version of Acrobat reader cause in Linux it looks just fine :shrug:
I havent got the time yet to read it but it looks like it could have some useful info, why do you say its not useful?

About the hair: what you mean is that the main body is made by modeling and the hair bangs that fall in front are the individual strands of hair made with curves?

About Sabrina: isnt easier and faster to model the hair than using the curves? im completely new to this hair stuff, but loved Akis hair style

Thanks for your help eyadness, nice to see people willing to help instead of just flame.:thumbsup:

eYadNesS
09-01-2003, 09:45 PM
Hi Batsu,

About the book it is not useful, becasue it just shows renderman power! And it's not a way for studing (sorry to say stupid tips)... but it's good if you are very professional in this field and it will give you a good vision...

About the hair:
What is Maya Paint Effects?
Paint Effects is a component of Maya used to quickly and easily paint brush strokes and particle effects on a 2D canvas or on or between 3D geometry.
You can use Paint Effects as a traditional paint program to paint images on a canvas, or to paint repeatable textures that you can apply to geometry in your scenes.

So Squaresoft had used it for the single hair, becasue you can choose the number of hair tubes (more tubes = more hair)
and the geometry (polygon) is the main shape of the hair and it is covered with shader.

Now come to my character Sabrina, why I don't make the geometry (the main shape), becasue I should texture it and the texturing is not easy, and I don't have time to make it in this challenge!
So I have made the main shape from simple curves connected with paintFX, and as I have telling you, you can increase the number of hair tubes, so you can get the same result of the geometry :)

No thanks for helping :), it's my duty, I like you becuase you need to learn...
Again If you have any comments, just post it, I hope I can help you :)

Batsu
09-03-2003, 06:49 PM
even the stupidest tips can be helpful with me :beer:

Ive been looking at some paint effects tuts and can see what you mean, but dont you have to texture the single strands of hair you make with the paint effects too? isnt this the texture? http://images.deviantart.com/i/9/c/9/3d_step08.jpg
Also, making it that way with paint effects, wouldnt it make it look all the hairs look too similar? in Akis hair you have many polygons so to make individual strands of hair have different angles and curves, thus adding more realism, if not it looks like a coat painted over, too neat, thats what i dont like of ShagHair (or at least the images ive seen that use that plugin).
:wavey:

PS: i also have the same problem viewing your images, i need to go to properties and paste the address in a new window.

EDIT: didint know where to post this, if here or in the other thread :hmm:. One crit about sabrina, in the last images youve posted, when she smiles and does the other gestures, the bottom lip should stretch and not remain the same size and position as in the first pic. At least thats how i see it, it seems odd. Otherwise its looking great. cant wait to see it finished, specially the hair part ;)

eYadNesS
09-03-2003, 11:01 PM
Hi Batsu,
How are you? I hope you are fine
I hope you understand FF:TSW hair, really it's very complex hair, but this is the main idea of the hair.

Thanks for your comment about the problem of viewing my images, I will take care in the next posts :)

About Sabrina face expressions, really I have made this expressions in 3 minutes lol, don't care about the smile lol :), I have sent this post just to show I can make an easy face expressions for this techniques in modeling...
I will make her face expressions later, I think after finishing her full body...

Thanks for waiting my final character, really I'm waiting too lol :), but I hope I can finish it in the time of challenge!!
Cool to meet you Batsu

Batsu
09-04-2003, 11:38 PM
Im reaaaaaally greatful for all the tips and explanations you gave me eyadness, its been a pleasure meeting you :)

I wish you BEST of luck in the challenge, maybe you wont need it cause your technique for modeling is great :beer:

Again, thank you for the time u spent explaining all this things!! :wavey:

eYadNesS
09-05-2003, 12:04 AM
You are welcome :)

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