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erilaz
08-23-2003, 04:02 AM
Last night I was speaking on #cgtalk IRC with a student who told me that their high school had banned C++ being taught due to it leading to cyber-crime.
I was quite angry about this, and as such told him that C++ was an industry standard and why the heck would anyone deny students a chance to learn the language. I work with developers who use C and C++ on a day to day basis, and i've been picking it up myself as an aid to my game development modelling.
This was when another IRC member jumped in and (rather arrogantly, I might add) told me I didn't know what I was talking about.
This lead to a rather irritating conversation, so I figured in order to get a clear understanding without bias, I would ask programmers what they use most prominently to code with.
Am I wrong in saying that C++ is not an industry standard code? I know it's been in decline, but this person i spoke with said Delphi was used quite prominently.

This isn't a matter of "Which app should i use?". It's more a case of what is commonly coded within the programming community and development at large. I'm interested to see what kind of cross section there is.

I know this may lead to an arguement, so I would stress that people keep it to what they know and what they use, rather than debunking what other people are saying.

FBMachine
08-23-2003, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by erilaz

Am I wrong in saying that C++ is not an industry standard code? I know it's been in decline, but this person i spoke with said Delphi was used quite prominently.

In game engine development it sure is. I've never heard of a game engine being developed in Delphi to be honest, except for hobbyists/indies. It depends on the industry you're in though, but for the stuff we're into ( games and graphics ), yeah I'd say C++ is pretty much the standard IMO. :)
Dan

markdc
08-23-2003, 07:59 AM
Someone probably has exact stats but it's safe to say that most commercial applications are developed using C/C++.

ViPr
08-23-2003, 08:37 AM
haha this is the funniest thing i ever heard. yah i think all commercial games are made in c or c++. mostly c++ nowadays. those guys you were talking to were probably amish talibans who think people should not be allowed to play basketball or baseball or football coz it will help them to throw grenades, or that people shouldn't be taught how to drive coz that leads to truck bombs being driven into buildings.

erilaz
08-23-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by ViPr
haha this is the funniest thing i ever heard. yah i think all commercial games are made in c or c++. mostly c++ nowadays. those guys you were talking to were probably amish talibans who think people should not be allowed to play basketball or baseball or football coz it will help them to throw grenades, or that people shouldn't be taught how to drive coz that leads to truck bombs being driven into buildings.

Thanks for your comment ViPr, but please refrain from personally attacking people... it just leads to nasty arguements. :)

nt65
08-23-2003, 01:01 PM
C++ definitely wins hands down.

Cop this for some statistics.

Do an Amazon search on the following:
"C++" + "game" = 33 books
"Delphi" + "game" = 3 books

"C++" = 1579 books
"Delphi" = 310 books

......... 'nuph said.

rendermaniac
08-23-2003, 06:01 PM
Personally I use Perl a lot, but usually to glue RenderMan together. (obviously not interactive)

I don't do games, but I would be suprised if they didn't use C++ as its close to the hardware whilst still being manageable.

Gooberius
08-23-2003, 06:53 PM
The four companies I've worked for so far (yeah, the games industry, it's like that) have all used C and C++ for most of the code, with the occasional bit of assembly thrown in for some of the nastier CPU hogging routines. If you subscribe to the game-dev algorithms list and/or the DX developers list then you'll quickly see 99% of game dev is done in C or C++.

Notable exceptions include the game logic in Jak and Daxter which was apparently written in a version of Lisp, although the "engine" was C/C++/assembly.

On the religious ranting side: C and C++ aren't inherently evil, it's all down to what people do with them.

FBMachine
08-24-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Gooberius
Notable exceptions include the game logic in Jak and Daxter which was apparently written in a version of Lisp, although the "engine" was C/C++/assembly.

Yeah game devs are pretty experimental when it comes to the gameplay code. From the scripting in Duke3d, to the Unreal engine's UScript ( accounting for almost 100% of the gameplay code ), MDK2 using Lua, and I'm sure there are others just can't think of at the moment... All the engines for those games were coded in C, C++, and assembly though. Honestly I can't think of one significant piece of software done in Delphi, though I'm sure it has a hold in some industry. That guy you talked to was probably just an overzealous delphi fan though, trying to protect his baby. :)
Dan

schmu_20mol
08-24-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by FBMachine
Honestly I can't think of one significant piece of software done in Delphi, though I'm sure it has a hold in some industry. That guy you talked to was probably just an overzealous delphi fan though, trying to protect his baby. :)
Dan

yeah i'll have to agree...most fanatic delphi guys i've met tried to protect their babe all the time...

aurora
08-25-2003, 03:28 PM
Its been plentifully stated that c\c++ is THE defacto language for any type of graphics app, with Java/Delphi and on even more rare occasions Basic jumping in there. But its also important to note what a few people have commented on. Rarely is c\c++ the only language used. Most have scripting engines which range in flavors. A great many of them utilize some assembly to speed things up. Then theres always the web interaction coding which comes into heavy play with MMOG's and in other areas as well. So its a must to know c\c++ but if you have experience in some of these other areas job hunting and programming life gets easier faster. Oh I should also add that knowing UNIX powertools, sed/awk ect is a major bonus as well. Although most work is done on Windows systems the use of a Linux box or just simply Cygwin on Windows with UNIX powertools is pretty standard as well

Srek
08-28-2003, 04:27 PM
Hi,
for an example CINEMA 4D is coded completely in C++
If you find a faster developing and more stable software out there i would be surprised ;)
The idea that teaching C++ will lead to more cybercrime seems completely ridiculous to me. It's the same as thinking that showing children how to use knife and fork will lead to more homicides.

Cheers
Srek

Tommi
08-30-2003, 09:35 PM
Pascal has been industry leader in the 1980's. I think many reasons lead to the circumstance, that C++ now dominates the industry. In my opinion the most obvious reason is the Windows API and also the whole Unix / Linux world.
Besides that I do not think, that a C(++) coded program is more stable or faster just because it is C(++)
Personally I do not like C(++) code much, because it makes me dizzy looking at it :hmm: - but well... I actually have no other choice :D

aurora
08-31-2003, 12:46 AM
I remember the great days of Pascal, Fortran and assembly . Back then everybody could do assembly on a 6502 easier then you can do c\c++ today!
The new flavors of Delphi were to my understanding taken straight from pascal. Delphi has been used quite a bit in smaller games and graphics and slowly making alittle more head way. But I fear it will never really catch on. I personally have not even really looked at it past some graphics code that was written in Delphi that I translated over to c++.

aurora
08-31-2003, 12:48 AM
By the way yes I left Cobol out. To many headaches caused by Cobol a couple of years ago. Besides it was/is more of a business language. Never liked anything to do with business programming. Scientific and graphic for me thank you.

EvilBasterd
09-08-2003, 11:47 AM
Delphi, VB and C# are great for Rapid Application Development. But for advanced software C++ is a must! In some some very complex cases a combination of Assembler and C++ is required.

Why? Because C++ is one of the fastest compilers around (The only compiler faster is an Assembler compiler).

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