LCD or CRT

[Ultimatum]

I have HP LP3065 30". It´s awesome. I would never go back to CRT, although I miss the fact that black is "blacker" on CRT.

[imashination]

They still make CRTs? I thought the last of the production lines had closed down. Youve got more luck finding a box a floppy disks to be realistic.

[olson]

I got a issue with LCD that in most of the LCD you cant view from different angels i know there are some LCD which are awesome in result and can be viewed from different angles so please state there name if you used them

Buy an LCD for dozens of reasons (better power efficiency, they don't get as hot, longer lasting, LED backlight has consistent color from the first second, digital signals like DVI, the list goes on). The poor viewing angle was a problem with early LCD but now most are pretty good. Panel type will have an affect on that as well as when it was manufactured, TN panels which are typically the cheaper panels will have relatively poor viewing angle compared to PVA and IPS (and their derivatives like S-IPS). More on panel types and I'm sure Wikipedia will have lots to say as well.

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

Often manufacturers don't specify what panel type they use and boast features like response time, the reality should be the other way around because the panel type is much more important. Usually Google a monitor and someone will have figured out what panel type it uses. Cheers!

[TksDevil]

Ultimatum: Thanks a millions (HP LP3065 30") its on my list now , i am waiting for more replies then i will buy according to my range

imashination: sarcasm wont help me neither it makes you look funny or cool, it will be helpfull for me if you just mention the LCD you are working on or list some LCDs which are good for proffesnational works because belive me there are many LCD brands which are costly but are useless (color issuse, brighting issue, angle issue, motion issue) when using them for CG


Regards

[TksDevil]

Wow now that a constructive reply thanks olson alot cont know the technical points of LCD before Thanks

One more thing it will be great if you mention some monitors or tell me which one you are using and whats its panel type

Regards and thanks

[olson]

If I were starting with a clean slate and a good budget, I'd look at this.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=223-4890

Its IPS panel type and has many inputs and a very adjustable stand. The extra wide color gamut and larger than 1080P resolution make it a good fit for CG because you can have 1080P plates and renders up with other windows and tools open. Its not LED backlight but its also half the price of most LED backlight monitors so there's a trade off (color isn't consistent until about an hour of power on).

http://www.adorama.com/VDLA730M.html?sid=1260653563592676

LED backlight will last longer and have more consistent color performance but it comes at a premium. Apple's current 30" is also LED backlight. Cheers!

[TksDevil]

Really thanks a lot:thumbsup:

[Magnus3D]

I'm gonna borrow your thread and ask a question if that's ok.
At the moment i'm stuck with a crappy old piece of junk 19" Dell crt monitor i actually found at the junkyard some 16+ years ago. Anyhow it's a powerhungry beast and i need to replace it before it explodes in my face..

What do you guys think about this one ?
Samsung 27" LCD Syncmaster P2770H

Is it ok for 2d/3d and gaming or does it suck ? i know it's a TN type lcd with some bleeding but i'm curious even with those known issues if it's still a acceptable monitor for graphical work.

/ Magnus

[dmeyer]

I use both Apple 30's and the Dell 3008WFP. Both are great. Pro's and Con's on both sides.

[beaker]

Its not LED backlight but its also half the price of most LED backlight monitors so there's a trade off (color isn't consistent until about an hour of power on).Color isn't consistent on any monitor till an hour or so of power being on, even with CRT's. In a studio situation you should always leave them on and let them just go into power save mode instead of shutting it off to prevent this.

LED backlight will last longer and have more consistent color performance but it comes at a premium. Apple's current 30" is also LED backlight. Cheers!
Only the Apple 24" is an LED backlight. Also the Apple LED backlight one is only $899. Samsung and LG now have ones the same size for half the price. I have no idea what the quality is though.

[imashination]

imashination: sarcasm wont help me neither it makes you look funny or cool

I was completely serious, if you want to take offence thats your choice and indeed problem. Youve come here asking if you should buy an lcd or crt, I pointed out that they dont make crts anymore; some people might view this as a somewhat useful and relevant fact.

Saying theyre harder to find than floppy disks was again, information wrapped in a joke. theyre old, they dont make them anymore, theyre difficult to still find in stores. You may as well be asking whether you should buy a bluray player or a betamax tape deck.

Telling you which lcd screens im using is equally pointless, because they dont make them anymore either. But if you must know Apple 30" 2nd gen + Dell 24" 2405FPW.

You didnt tell us your budget or what you need the screen for, how are we supposed to suggest anything worthwhile when you havent even provided us with the most basic information. You said you want a screen with good colours... great, and I want a car that goes fast, now should I pick the 1.6 diesel ford focus or the lamborghini murcielago?

Animation or still images?
How much desk space do you have?
What is your budget?
Are you limited to certain screens by your supplier?
Do you need to colour match print work?
Are you doing colour grading and post?
What inputs do you need?
Will clients be looking over your shoulder?
Landscape or does it need to rotate?
Glossy or matte?
Do you care about bevel sizes for dual screens?

[biliousfrog]

Ultimatum:
imashination: sarcasm wont help me neither it makes you look funny or cool, it will be helpfull for me if you just mention the LCD you are working on or list some LCDs which are good for proffesnational works because belive me there are many LCD brands which are costly but are useless (color issuse, brighting issue, angle issue, motion issue) when using them for CG

It was a completely valid point, you're going to have a very difficult time finding a CRT that hasn't been used a lot. If you do it will be massive, require a long time to reach optimum working temperature and accurate colour reproduction and be very power hungry.

The Dell Ultrasharp's are very nicely designed and the model that Olson linked to seems very nice.

Mash, I think you're cool and funny :love:

[meleseDESIGN]

No stupid questions, just stupid answers.

Your questions about CRT or LCD are absolutelly eligible, TksDevil.
Listen to beaker and olson, both mentioned good points.

Which display to buy is another question and yes, Apple, Dell and Samsung have some great displays. We use HannsG 28" LCDs, they work with MACs as well.

[TksDevil]

Magnus3D: Please be my guest i got all the info i need, thanks to Olson

beaker: Thank Bud, really nice point i will keep them in my head i think i will go for Apple too

imashination: Using of words make a sentence a sarcasm, if you just simply wrote Company dont make CRT any more buy a LCD, it wont bug me but as on many forum even on this one many people try to make fun of others by doing stupid sarcasm, anyway I am really greatfull to OLSON because he put me to the right track to hunt down good LCD, even with my small question he guided me. Anyway thanks for your concern and comments

biliousfrog: thanks for info regarding Dell Ultrasharp, about Mash he must be cool and funny but Unfortunately i dont know him in person so dont take me wronge my comment was about his comment/reply not about his personality

meleseDESIGN: Thanks i will check HannsG 28" LCDs too


Thanks all i got what i need know Thanks to all

If you want to answer Magnus3D question it will be helpfull to him

'm gonna borrow your thread and ask a question if that's ok.
At the moment i'm stuck with a crappy old piece of junk 19" Dell crt monitor i actually found at the junkyard some 16+ years ago. Anyhow it's a powerhungry beast and i need to replace it before it explodes in my face..

What do you guys think about this one ?
Samsung 27" LCD Syncmaster P2770H

Is it ok for 2d/3d and gaming or does it suck ? i know it's a TN type lcd with some bleeding but i'm curious even with those known issues if it's still a acceptable monitor for graphical work.

/ Magnus

[AndyBlazdell]

I know several people who have an old CRT to check colour on, and then a big cheap LCD to do their actual work on (in a dual monitor setup). Finding a high resolution LCD with good colour reproduction for a low price is still difficult.

[Szos]

...The poor viewing angle was a problem with early LCD but now most are pretty good....

I have to comment on this - while it is true that LCDs have vastly improved on their viewing angles, and I have seen some great looking screens, but even today, there is no way they are even close to being as good as CRTs in that respect - and I don't care how the manufacturers fudge the numbers to supposedly prove otherwise. Which is one of the reasons that I will be very sad when my current CRTs finally die on me. :sad:



Also Imashnation is correct that at this stage, unless you are buying used, you will be buying an LCD. Of course, there is also Plasma, but I don't think they ever made ones aimed at the monitor market. OLEDs are the future, but I would say that we are still a year or more away from that technology really hitting the mainstream.

[vlad]

I have to comment on this - while it is true that LCDs have vastly improved on their viewing angles, and I have seen some great looking screens, but even today, there is no way they are even close to being as good as CRTs in that respect - and I don't care how the manufacturers fudge the numbers to supposedly prove otherwise. Which is one of the reasons that I will be very sad when my current CRTs finally die on me. :sad:
...

I had a new LCD (with H-IPS panel) alongside 2 (aging) pro grade CRTs for a small while and guess what : the LCD actually had better viewing angles than the CRTs. I was also mourning the loss of my beloved 24" Trinitron 100 lbs mastodont, but when the Nec 2490 came to replace it, I thought hey, this isnt so bad after all! And I dont need a forklift to move it around :thumbsup: If you get a top quality LCD, chances are you wont miss you old CRT.

Oh and tftcentral.co.uk has a panel type search engine that is quite useful when shopping around.

[K1aymen]

I guess I´ll hijack this thread, as it feels unnecessary to start a new one.

All monitors recommended here are so huge. I´m looking to replace my old CRT but I want to stay on the cheaper/smaller side. I have no need for a 30" monitor, and I guess I can get more quality for the same price the lower I go in size.

Does anyone have a 19-22" LCD, preferably in the 200-300 pricerange, to recommend?

[biliousfrog]

I guess I´ll hijack this thread, as it feels unnecessary to start a new one.

All monitors recommended here are so huge. I´m looking to replace my old CRT but I want to stay on the cheaper/smaller side. I have no need for a 30" monitor, and I guess I can get more quality for the same price the lower I go in size.

Does anyone have a 19-22" LCD, preferably in the 200-300 pricerange, to recommend?

Honestly, 24" is the sweet spot, you'll get full HD in most cases and the price increase from a 22" is marginal. Most professional monitors are around that size (though not all) so going for something smaller does not neccessarily mean that you'll get a better monitor, you're paying for the LCD panel.

[biliousfrog]

Can a lcd monitor with a 5ms resposetime be good for both gaming and watching movies on without getting terrible amounts of ghosting ?

/ Magnus

Theoretically anything under 9ms is unnoticable but every manufacturer has their own way of working out response times so it's not even worth looking at...almost any modern LCD should be free from ghosting but the best way to check is to see them in action or read reviews.

[Magnus3D]

Can a lcd monitor with a 5ms resposetime be good for both gaming and watching movies on without getting terrible amounts of ghosting ?

/ Magnus

[nogojoe]

The real answer here is that some people will notice ghosting/blur while others won't. Even standing side by side. I personally notice it gaming on any lcd, not to mention getting thrown off by display lag while doing something like shooting a rail gun.

I haven't looked at the 120hz samsung lcd however, it's very new. You might want to look into it.

[Magnus3D]

I see.. hm, ok so it's more from one person to the other if there's visible ghosting or not.
That 120hz monitor looks pretty expensive, my wallet is not fat enough to allow that. However i been looking at this one, what do you guys think about it ?

http://www.benq.se/products/LCD/index.cfm/page/features/product/1157

/ Magnus

[olson]

I see.. hm, ok so it's more from one person to the other if there's visible ghosting or not.
That 120hz monitor looks pretty expensive, my wallet is not fat enough to allow that. However i been looking at this one, what do you guys think about it ?

http://www.benq.se/products/LCD/index.cfm/page/features/product/1157

/ Magnus

Even though its LED backlight its probably a TN panel since they don't say what kind of panel is used. If its a TN panel its probably not a very good choice for graphics work. Cheers!

[biliousfrog]

I find it funny that many TV manufacturers are claiming that their TV's have response times that cut out motion blur...I'd like to see a sales guy explain that when they show a fast paced movie shot at 24fps.

[Magnus3D]

olson: Yes that's a TN panel but with the difference that it's backlit by led's instead of tubes like regular lcd's are. Graphics specific monitors are so horribly expensive that it's way out of my budget :( i wish i could afford one but i have only about 400 euro in my piggybank to spend on this so i have to accept lower quality to get something which is ok.
Although i read that as the lcd's are backlit with led's then it should minimize the amount of bleeding light normally seen on TN panels, however it will not affect the poor viewing angles these displays suffer from.

/ Magnus

[Magnus3D]

After spending a almost countless amount of hours researching, looking for something within my budget, doing some more research, talking to people who know stuff and looking at monitors in stores i have finally found something to throw away my savings on. I bought two 24 inch BenQ G2420HDBL displays, they proved to give me the most bang for my money. At about 400 euro totally i have to say i'm quite satisfied, the flaws in these monitors is ok, i can live with that. It's a hell of a lot better than my 16 year old crt could ever be!

Here's some pics for you guys to look at :)

My old 19" CRT (yes it's christmas decorated)
http://img2.pict.com/94/7e/ca/2215955/0/20091215082.jpg

My new setup :) yay!
http://img2.pict.com/6d/51/3c/2222714/0/20091216098web.jpg

/ Magnus

[galentoh]

The primary advantage that CRT monitors held over LCDs was their color rendering. The contrast ratios and depths of colors displayed were much greater with CRT monitors than LCDs. While this still holds true in most cases, many strides have been made in LCDs such that this difference is not as great as it once was.


Pros of CRT:
Multisync Capable
High Refresh Rates
Color Clarity and Depth

Cons of CRT:
Very Heavy and Large
Use Large Amounts of Energy
Generate Excess Heat



Pros of LCD:
Smaller and Lighter
Energy Efficient
Causes Less Eye Fatigue

Cons of LCD:
Blurry Images Outside Native Resolution
Motion Blur on Fast Moving Images
Some Models Have Reduced Color Clarity


LCD recommendation:
Dell UltraSharp 2209WA
Dell UltraSharp U2410

[K1aymen]

Ok. So either a cheaper version of the one Magnus3D bought:

Benq V2200 Eco, backlit with LED (Which sounded good when reading about it). From a review:
"Good:
Very very bright backlight
Detail in images and text is precise
Aesthetics are clean and smooth
Bad:
Brightness needs to be turned down and calibrated, otherwise clipping occurs"

or the one recommended above,

UltraSharp 2209WA, backlit with CCFL. From a review:
"plus
Flexible positioning
Good responsiveness
Minimal input lag


moins
Poor handling of gamma
Contrast: lack of depth in blacks"



Which should I pick? :) Decisions, decisions.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.