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RobertoOrtiz
08-21-2003, 05:39 PM
It looks promising.
They seem to have acknowledged that the show had problems.

Here is the Link:
>>Click on Last Ned<<

>>Link<< (http://www.startreknorge.com/filedb/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=132)

-R

richcz3
08-21-2003, 06:32 PM
I am downloading as I write this.

I read an article earlier this week that the shows producers were going to pretty things up a bit. Jolene Blalocks character is going to have a cat fight(s) with some other vixen. On top of that her wardrobe is going from drab to pastels. Shes going to be a little less Vulcan toward males and more curious. Hmmm..Wonder where the show is going.

Also it seams that viewers are increasingly seeing Rick Berman (?)as the problem with Star Trek franchise.

--I am clearly writing as an outsider on this...Haven't watched a ST series in years. :D

richcz3

malducin
08-21-2003, 06:49 PM
Well from reading Bermna's interview's to me it seems he has no idea there are problems. And even if he might admit to some he seems clueless about how to fix them. It seems every time he makes things more convoluted and messing even more the basic mythology of Trek, just thowing in things to make it more hip or attract the mae audience. It kinda reminds me of the last few seasons of the X-Files where the mythology was getting so convulted that it started making less sense and more contradictions. In both cases the standalone episodes are mmuch much better IMHO.

Heck they can't even acknowledge that thatmellow song at the beginning of the show feels totally out of place and should be changed, and that's even before the episode gets started!!!

Nikodemus
08-21-2003, 07:38 PM
i do not like this show...
:thumbsdow
[/rant]
it is so formulated, and prepackaged, with the over stereotypical bridge crew of multi races and the stories are so shallow and predictable , i feel as though i can watch the beginning 5 minutes and end 30 seconds and miss no content of the show...
also the obvios tie in to "todays" happenings is so blatant it is just disturbingly frustrating...

they always said "nothing can stop this mission" in the show and im like 'what mission' you stop at random planets and take your shirts off.. or bring in tag keys like the ferengi, geez, is not their missions to explore.. like nebulas and comets and stellar phenomenon.. sheesh

and now there are "marines" on the ship for this dreadful expanse.. good grief.. i would be more interested in seeing what almighty "chef" looks like.. who makes the stereotype southern fried catfish.... and alittle less "dramatic pauses" during captain starlogs.. good grief its Kirk times 15 ..

i miss the days of innovative scifi tv [/end rant]

* i just watched the preview thing.. lets say im less than interested *

MaTaDoR
08-21-2003, 07:50 PM
I cant bring myself to watch one episode of startrek unless its the next generation (best EVER) or voyager...

Im still amazed at the fact that ill catch a next generation episode that ive never seen after all these years.. I get so happy.. lol

Peter Reynolds
08-21-2003, 08:05 PM
Where did they get that intro song?

Is it some rejected demo tape from the series producers son's band that never made it in the 80's?

RobertoOrtiz
08-21-2003, 08:07 PM
Matador check out DS9.
It was one of the best Sci fi tv shows ever made.

And guys, lets cut them some slack.
After all, they are making changes (including the title and the hated intro song).

-R

Nikodemus
08-21-2003, 08:18 PM
heh RobertoOrtiz, yeah maybe they are trying but i think they should scrap it and give the franchise a rest you know... IMO

are they really changing the intro? last i hear it was the same

i dunno i still say they are making changes in the wrong direction...

oh well i dont have a tv here at school so i wont be watching anyway :rolleyes:

markbones
08-21-2003, 09:05 PM
I have watched the show onand off, and their storylines are SO predictable and un-engaging. I am also tired of all the moral issues always at stake, I want to see more scientific, sci-fi, and thought provoking storylines. This trailer does not get me excited at all.

BTW: the original theme was written by Diane Warren (http://www.realsongs.com/). Her songwriting repertoire is quite amazing, but on the same note, it's no surprise why the song is as sappy as it is.

TNG & Voyager rock. After a couple of seasons I quickly grew tired of DS9 :shrug:

richcz3
08-21-2003, 09:45 PM
Slightly off topic, but Star Trek Franchise related.

Activision sued (not Paramount) about that the whole Star Trek franchise imploding. Virtually almost all the TV series have ended and there were too few Motion Pictures produced.
This lawsuit was brought on by the poor sales of Star Trek Elite Force II. The contract was signed around 1997 and was said to be in breech now.

richcz3

Valkyrien
08-21-2003, 10:22 PM
ahh, but does this mean Enterprise will stop destroying any semblence of continuity the star trek universe once had? I doubt it. The damage is already done. Between Enterprise and that god-awful Nemesis, Berman and company haven't done anything right since DS9 went off the air. Voyager was ok for a while, until it became the same prepackaged deal as Enterprise. One problem was the distance from home factor. it was almost unimaginable considering how many people on that ship died that they'd be able to operate it long enough to make it through 7 seasons. original complement was something like 400 people, but between the Vidiians, the borg, and Species 8472, not to mention the Hirogen, kazon and Red Foreman's timeship dealy (episode "Year of Hell") most of the crew should've been dead, and the officers of the Eqionox wouldn't have been enough to offset the difference, since most of that crew went down with their captain and ship. and it didn't help that the producers probably couldn't keep the same extras coming back week after week, so it looked like there were new crewmembers being rotated in every once in a while. Add in the fact that the acting tended to be rather subpar and the stories tended to be rather unimaginative, often cooked up by the studio as a way to boost ratings by having guest stars like Jason Alexander and the Rock, and you've got a recipie for the mundane.

Enterprise's problem is that it uses Voyager plotlines and doesn't cover it very well, destroys continuity (yeah, between Enterprise and the TOS timeframe they went from plasma screens and primitive but still existent LCARS to CRTs and Duotronic data systems:rolleyes: ), and once again tries to rely on the sex appeal of a cast member who isn't even really that pretty. If they can go back to the drawing board and fix all that, then delete all record that the first two seasons ever existed, then it might become a decent show. But i'm not holding my breath;)

And the trailer doesn't make it look much better, just like there's going to be more action this season. whoop-de-do

Apt Pupil
08-22-2003, 01:53 AM
I never understand why voyager had no semblance of a continuing story. The ship was perfect from day one to year 7 and the crew regenerated from death after each battle. The only form of continuation they had was that the acting and storyline were just horrendous throughout. After seven years of travelling through the unknown, all they came home to earth with were a few astrenomical maps and a bunch of new recipes from nelix. Pretty sad :hmm:

I would have loved to have seen them have a season where their ship was totally recked for the entire season or they had to manage on a skeleton crew, or they had to recruite new talent or just something other then the exploration of just another wierd anomoly.

I haven't seen this new enterprise show, but after reading your comments here, it seems like it possesses the same recipe for badness as voyager.

And then these new movies that came out, oh boy!!

Nikodemus
08-22-2003, 02:07 AM
hey Apt Pupil! :wavey: long time no see !

if you didnt enjoy voyager,,, [it kinda grew on me as i rewatched it] you really really wouldnt like this Enterprise show


it doesnt even have star trek in the title.. that says something right there..


:beer: cya round !

ambient-whisper
08-22-2003, 02:32 AM
there are a few neat things about enterprize. but not story related. ( well a bit. ) the fact that they have primitive hardware..
the way its filmed in wide screen is neato to see too.
the story doesnt seem too engaging. but there was a few eps i did enjoy. hell not ever episode of TNG was great ;) the detective ones on the holodeck i found extremely boring for example..

btw. i like that idea by apt. where the ship would be in ruin for an entire season. definitely add some intensity to the show.

Nikodemus
08-22-2003, 02:48 AM
yeah some of there tech is kinda cool.. i agree to that.. but you know something i laugh at all the time

is that cable,magnet.. i mean "tractor beam" hehe.. i just think that thing is so goofy and the way they have it hit the shuttlepods... :p

i noticed they cut down on the times they actually used that thing through the seasons.. musta realized it was kinda goofy

richcz3
08-22-2003, 03:09 AM
This is gonna sound strange but I knew I wasn't even going to watch even one episisode when I saw the art direction.

The new ship (err old ship) Enterpise looks more advanced than the 1960's show. This prelude to the later is a hopped up model from DPS, STNG, Voyager..ok. I was expecting to see something more relative to the early designs, using new graphics of course.
I know I know, that sounds bizzare, but am I supposed to forget the vintage design from the original shows.

I recently saw an old Star Trek episode with (The Managerie) with my niece who is 16. Aside from the obvious dated effects, she liked the characters and the story.
Think about it. If you stripped the effects from the newer shows, would these new series stand on their own.

The tension between Dr. Mcoy and Spock made several episodes ring true. :thumbsup:

richcz3

Valkyrien
08-22-2003, 03:10 AM
Apt Pupil: there were a couple of episodes where the ship was wrecked...;) Year of Hell and the one where the Hirogen take over come to mind. And even though it was only one episode, Year of Hell was a whole YEAR;):p:D

BiTMAP
08-22-2003, 05:49 AM
I like the style that the new show has, but I do agree that its kinda craptastical. However I Do like the new captn... If they got the story working properly they could have something nice going on, yeah the ship looks more advanced, but it seems to be a better predisessor to the enterprise from TNG.

heck and my brother enjoys it :P

Apt Pupil
08-22-2003, 06:20 AM
Valkyrien --> 'Year of Hell,' was that the 2 hour episode where captain janeway ends the show by ramming voyager into her enemy, and then the whole thing ended up never happening. If this is the one, I actually liked this episode until everything reverted back to the boring regenerating spotless usual voyager. During that episode, I kept saying to myself, "this season is going to be so cool, how are they ever going to recover from this . . . "

Well, we know now how they recovered, nothing ever happened:annoyed: Such a shame, the writers almost touched on something there . . .


Nikodemus --> :) It's nice to see you again too dude, it certainly has been awhile. "that cable,magnet.. i mean "tractor beam"" Sounds hilarious heheh

Valkyrien
08-22-2003, 07:21 AM
oh yeah, that was what happened, or rather didn't happen...hmm

well it took them until the next episode to repair the ship completely after the Hirogen takeover where they literally started hollowing out the ship to make the holodecks bigger...not to mention that I don't know how many crewmen were killed in that one...

speaking of whhich, there was an episode of DS9 where one of the docking pylons was blown completely off. Next episode, it was back. i was really kind of disappointed...would've been good to see them cope, having to reroute ships and such not to mention actually repairing the damn thing...knowing them though they'd probably go to Empok Nor and steal one of its pylons:rolleyes:

runejw
08-22-2003, 12:44 PM
Looking at the clip...

...hmm, isn't that the capt from B5 ?

Now, that would be an idea - to merge the ST and B5 universes - sort of "noir" ST.

...so to lighten things up, maybe get some elements from Farscape also (Jim Henson puppets)... and this ought to get really... interesting?... :beer: :hmm:
http://www.contendergroup.com/kult-tv/farscape/default.html

Just joking :)



Cheers,
Rune

mattregnier
08-22-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by ambient-whisper
[B]hell not ever episode of TNG was great ;) the detective ones on the holodeck i found extremely boring for example..


You really didn't like the episode with Moriarty...man I thought the message/story in that ep was great...at the end where Picard just sets the small cube on his desk with the simulation running...damn was that ever thought provoking...

xzevlin
08-22-2003, 04:58 PM
I keep watching Enterprise and wanting to like it, but there's less and less to like as it drags on. I do like that T'Pol's new uniform ties in alot more with the style of the original series, but everything is still much too advanced. Where are the mini-skirts and bee hive hairdos? I like Phlox, T'Pol and Trip, but the rest of the cast could all die and be replaced by tribbles and we wouldn't see much of a difference.

I like that they are going on a mad rampage to get revenge for what happened to earth. It shows that no matter how close to a utopia Earth can get and how balanced the society becomes, humans will always be governed by their emotions. Maybe they'll kill off Archer along the way :D


I was watching the second last episode of Deep Space 9 last week, and I think that was the Trek franchise at it's peak. There was so much emotion in the last few episodes, and storylines that started seasons before finally got wrapped up. It's a shame that they never made movies about them, and instead tried to turn Picard into an action hero.

MadMax
08-23-2003, 11:52 PM
Wow. So many interesting points in this thread I can't respond to them individually.

Okay, I'll lump them and try to cover most of it as best I can.....

Berman & Braga:

Completely clueless. Berman said in an interview that he wasn't aware of problems with the franchise, even though their numbers have crashed dramatically.

Braga when asked about Enterprise ratings responded with "I don't know".

Someone said that Enterprise was a bridge collection of political correctness. This is just a copy of the methodology used on Voyager. Get one person of every race and make a bridge crew of tokens.

Voyager had a ships compliment of 150 crewmen give or take. I can look up exact numbers, but it's not worth my time. It wasn't even close to 200 crew though.

Regarding the Enterprise itself, the reason it looks more modern that the 1701 from the original series is the easiest to explain. In 2063, the USS Enterprise "D" travels back in time to avoid the Borg from assimilating earth.

In the end we have the following facts to deal with:

Both Zefram Cochrane and Lily were aware of the Enterprise from the future. Cochrane saw the Enterprise design both in his telescope and up close in space. Later when he established the warp 5 complex, it is easy to understand why NX-01 looks so modern. Cochrane saw a Saucered, twin nacelle space vehicle. It is easy to presume, and quite logically so, that the design of the NX-01 would mimic the Enterprise E design, and further that the ship would be named Enterprise as an inside joke.

The events of the movie First Contact indicate that the timeline had indeed been altered from what it had been originally, even if only minimally.

So I can overlook that aspect of the Enterprise design and plot as making sense.

However, as has been pointed out, the stories lack originality, zest or drama. They are bland, flat and boring. Turning 3rd season into Space Marines is not likely to help much either.

Viacom isn't happy about the lack of direction. It is quite possible that Berman & Braga will find themselves pink slipped in the near future, and Viacom may pull a reboot, and launch an all new Star Trek based on A new Captain Kirk, Spock and Mc Coy.

Joviex
08-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by MadMax
Viacom isn't happy about the lack of direction. It is quite possible that Berman & Braga will find themselves pink slipped in the near future, and Viacom may pull a reboot, and launch an all new Star Trek based on A new Captain Kirk, Spock and Mc Coy.


While I can see B & B getting a boot in the pants, restarting TOS with new actors and stories, that would be more a slap in the face of fans than the current show just outright tanking.

MadMax
08-24-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by amorano
While I can see B & B getting a boot in the pants, restarting TOS with new actors and stories, that would be more a slap in the face of fans than the current show just outright tanking.

Viacom doesn't think so........

richcz3
08-24-2003, 05:16 PM
Gene Rodeberry's support for Berman throughout the whole series development is what Rick Berman has going for him. He was essentialy publicaly annointed in interviews with Rodenberry as a worthy upholder of development. His heir aperient. Kinda like as if Walt Disney had handed over his staff to some wunderkind.

For a Viacom to take Berman out would be a big public relations issue, not to mention any legal nastiness. Who knows what kind of agreements/contracts Berman leveraged over the years.
Also there is sure to be a huge fanbase in support of his efforts to support movies, series, and merchandise.

Those things being said I am hard pressed to read of anyone who feels the current developers really like what they are doing. For Berman and Co. not to know what the problems are seems to ba a case of not seeing the forrest for the trees.


richcz3

slaughters
08-24-2003, 06:09 PM
Just watched the trailer and I only have 4 words.

Voyager meets Starship Troopers.

"Aaaacckkk !"

(well 5 if you count the Aaaaacckkk)

MadMax
08-24-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by richcz3
Gene Rodeberry's support for Berman throughout the whole series development is what Rick Berman has going for him. He was essentialy publicaly annointed in interviews with Rodenberry as a worthy upholder of development. His heir aperient. Kinda like as if Walt Disney had handed over his staff to some wunderkind.

Gene died early in Next Generations run. Since then Brman has managed to run the entire franchise down the toiltet.

Bottom line, employees who don't produce, eventually find themselves unemployed.

Viacom suffered huge financial loss at the fiasco that was Nemesis.

For a Viacom to take Berman out would be a big public relations issue, not to mention any legal nastiness.


A very big public relations issue. People will be throwing Trek parties in the streets over it.


Also there is sure to be a huge fanbase in support of his efforts to support movies, series, and merchandise.


The fan base has wanted Berman gone for years now. Trust me on this, he doesn't have much fan support.

JA-forreal
08-24-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by RobertoOrtiz
It looks promising.
They seem to have acknowledged that the show had problems.



-R

That may have been an understatement. But it looks like Enterprise will beign to match the quality of the previous Trek series this upcoming season.

DaJuice
08-25-2003, 01:30 AM
I really enjoy Enterprise, maybe I'm just easy to please. :shrug:

BiTMAP
08-25-2003, 07:30 AM
some people say the same about me, but really it can't be true, if it where there would be no one working with me!

xzevlin
08-25-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by MadMax

Viacom isn't happy about the lack of direction. It is quite possible that Berman & Braga will find themselves pink slipped in the near future, and Viacom may pull a reboot, and launch an all new Star Trek based on A new Captain Kirk, Spock and Mc Coy.

I'd love to see TOS redone as a one shot movie (just so I can see Gary Sinise play McCoy), but I can't get excited by more recycled content with new faces.

I don't think there's hope for Star Trek unless it takes a long break of 5-10 years. Give everyone time to forget the bad stuff, and relaunch it completely fresh, with an entirely new creative team.

MadMax
08-25-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by xzevlin
I'd love to see TOS redone as a one shot movie (just so I can see Gary Sinise play McCoy), but I can't get excited by more recycled content with new faces.

I don't think there's hope for Star Trek unless it takes a long break of 5-10 years. Give everyone time to forget the bad stuff, and relaunch it completely fresh, with an entirely new creative team.

There is no way that taking a 10 year break is a good idea. The franchise can make money, it just needs direction.

Gee, who'd play Captain Kirk? Ben Affleck? Brad Pitt? ugh.........

Gamoron
08-29-2003, 02:41 PM
Trek sucks right now. Berman is a fool. But there's always Farscape for good scifi. No wait a minute it got cancelled!!!arg

@Berman - hire me I'll make one really good trek film or series. Anybody remember Trek 2,6 and 8? Although the latter is starting to look flawed to me.

M.Rogne
08-29-2003, 04:11 PM
Sounds cool, yet I've never been much of a Startrek fan..

RobertoOrtiz
09-08-2003, 11:08 PM
This is the latest trailer.
http://www.startrek.com/st/series/ENT/episode/1729.html

-R

googlo
09-09-2003, 06:46 PM
They need to make the show more like STNG and DS9 (during the latter seasons). Enterprise if of course limited in what can be done, though they could still have made the show interesting in it's own way (they haven't done that in my opinion). I'm talking about the next star trek show though.

I have to say as an avid star trek fan I have NO IDEA how they can keep making phiasco movies like they have done. I was really excited about last trek movie until I saw it. I was like "What on earth is going on in paramount?!"

IT's like the star trek games that keep getting made. How is it possible to make so many disappointments?

I think the problem is that star trek fans keep accepting it and paying for it, so the people responsible for star trek have no pressure to change how things are going.

Star trek could easily still be a very vibrant and evolving thing, it's just that I think the people behind it have become complacement and used to the same old and so it's reflecting in the franchise :(.

Enterprise is so incredibly sedated.

Emmanuel
09-13-2003, 02:21 PM
Enterprise is way better than Voyager, which was to me the worst Trek-spin off.
The buddy factor works okay, the stories are okay (lets face it, after 400+ episodes al Treks together, who could come up with groundbreaking stories ? X-Files got bad much earlier !), the effects are great, heck, I even like the intro song :)
The story will unfold and its gonna be a real killer !

rougue 13
09-14-2003, 10:16 AM
i have to jump in on this being a trekkie....im tired of bing in the starfleet universe..they should do somthing fresh and different like just doing an all klingon vs. romulan show or movie..be daring..shake things up..not just a moral show but be strange..violent..and deep..like the first two movies..:beer:

heres my pitch..
ep1>"tribble warefare"..the romulans use tribbles to devistate the land and crops of Kronos and other klingon worlds...insanity insues
..ep2>"we need girlfreinds"ehh im out of ideas..hot vulcan chick shows boobs for 45 minutes..the end..

just kidding...they should make fan scripts into episodes..hey,, what the hell ,,the show sucks anyway right?

as far as the retooling of Enterprize goes they might as well throw some "matrix" kung fu in there..and some lesbian make out scenes..

MadMax
09-14-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Gamoron
Trek sucks right now. Berman is a fool. But there's always Farscape for good scifi. No wait a minute it got cancelled!!!arg


Gamoron,

are you a poster over at Subspace?

Hookflash
09-14-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Nikodemus
i do not like this show...
:thumbsdow
[/rant]
it is so formulated, and prepackaged, with the over stereotypical bridge crew of multi races

Apparently, the "Most Important Thing in the Universe (tm)" nowadays is a nice, fluffy, politically correct portrayal of "cultural diversity", even when it makes no sense. Enterprise is like a large sack of compressed pig sh*t. Sure, it's neat to look at for awhile. But, eventually the novelty wears off and the stench becomes overwhelming.

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