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eathquaketry
12-01-2009, 03:16 PM
Hi,
i am 3dsMax, Maya , aftereffect user . i spent about a year practising animation ,i had animator survival kit and other books but i just cant feel with it .
I am sure that i am not ready but i dont know why, something is missing, lost i dont know but if you are animator. sure you know .
Please tell me..........

bobi877
12-01-2009, 03:23 PM
I had a similar problem I don't feel animation and I don't know where is problem. People say to me where is problem but I do not understand what they say to me. I do not understand enough be can virtually usefull. I know the animation is not the best level, but these holidays had made progress disputes began to understand and feel things in the animation most important. I do not know how it happened, but in large part helped me a book by Richard Williams - The Animator's Survival Kit. Maybe you must more create animation and more watch animation cartoon. maybe this you help

mirkoj
12-02-2009, 05:50 AM
Animation is a bit specific compared to for example modeling. I've bin in the industry first as freelancer and now as full time animator, overall for over 10 years and only after enrolling in Animation Mentor I've made some real progress in animation, getting grasp of all fundamentals and all details that were missing in my previous work. I can easily say that I've made more progress in last 14 month (almost finishing animation mentor) than in last 10+ years learning alone.
The thing is that tools for modeling and topology itself is relatively easy to learn to make a models, and only your talent is a limit how good and original models will be, but for something like industrial modeling or modeling items from life everything that you learn by yourself is enough. For animation is completely different thing and learning alone you will spend a LOT more time than learning from others. Things like fundamentals and more advanced stuff that some of greatest animators spend life learning how to. Animators survival kit is good start but in my opinion animation requires a lot more dedication and help from experienced animators to make progress. Not wanting to start any kind of wars like this part of process is harder or something.. it is just how I feel after working for so long and I've tried all parts of production from story to final compositing.
In short enrolling any good animation school would probably be first and best step to learn animation.
If that is not possible second best is getting some really good literature and/or DVDs for character animation (gnomon had some great DVDs starting from fundamentals to acting) and than animating animating animating.
Third option is to involve yourself in animation sessions like this one on CGTalk, animating and getting people to see and comment your work, pointing to problems in your shot is also fantastic way to learn animation, adding that something that is missing.
And one last tip.. don't start right away with complex characters... start first by understanding fundamentals and how they work on simple objects, spheres, cubes and then work your animation up. Point is to understand fundamentals and everything else just builds up on that.
Hope this helps. Just keep up and keep animating :)

bobi877
12-02-2009, 07:57 AM
I support colleague the above. Learning from others provides much if they know how knowledge transfer. i want learn in Animation mentro but I don't have many money :(

someshpahuja
12-02-2009, 07:38 PM
definetaly sir mirkoj i apretiate your words i think 1st step need a good amount of money but i will follow your 2nd and 3rd step
THANK YOU SIR

eathquaketry
12-02-2009, 07:51 PM
So the one who cant study in animation school will spend more time with books and dvds from multiple places till he get it.......
thats fair ........ but i wonder what they teach you in the school ?? principles
principles as i see from my little experience doesnot take monthes ..... i dont know....
any way .... thanks
and it will be with books and dvds then.
and what is the animation school contents???????
if anybody came to this post plz plz post anything you did during your learning process.

Aluuk
12-23-2009, 07:14 AM
Hey Eathquaketry!

You ask a very broad question, and with out more specifics it will be hard for me to give a specific answer.

In broad terms it boils down to practice. Personally, animation was the hardest thing I've ever tried. If I would of put this much effort (thousands and thousands of hours) into any other artistic discipline I would likely be amazing at that skill, but with animation I have only scratched the surface.

In my humble opinion that is largely due to the fact that animation is the culmination of so many other disciplines. You must understand the technical aspects of the animation software (graph editor, time line, etc). You must learn the fundamentals of motion and animation (spacing, arcs, etc). You have to learn how to observe motion, and analytically dissect it in the smallest detail. You must learn how to draw (or at the very least understand what makes a good drawing. This includes line of action, posing, composition, staging, weight, balance, appeal, etc) Most importantly you need to learn how to act (because in the end all you are is an actor). The list goes on and on. Animation is a skill set that can take a lifetime to master.

I guess in the broadest of terms, the best advice I can give you is never give up! Keep practicing! You will get there!

If you have a good mentor/teacher than the process goes a lot faster. This is because you can build off of the knowledge of those that came before you. You don't have to start at square one, and you are not doomed to repeat the same mistakes they made.

If you are stuck going it alone, than I would utilize the internet. Visit forums, ask questions, participate in challenges. STUDY other animation you appreciate. Try to do the same exercises you see everyone else doing. Start simple, and work your way to complex.

It's a long road, but you can do it! All it takes is dedication!

Good luck!

-Leif

Aluuk
12-23-2009, 07:35 AM
So the one who cant study in animation school will spend more time with books and dvds from multiple places till he get it.......
thats fair ........ but i wonder what they teach you in the school ?? principles
principles as i see from my little experience doesnot take monthes ..... i dont know....
any way .... thanks
and it will be with books and dvds then.
and what is the animation school contents???????
if anybody came to this post plz plz post anything you did during your learning process.

School teaches you a lot.

1. They teach you the fundamentals of art. I've found this to be invaluable over the years. You might think that CG animators don't need to know how to draw, and while that may be true, I've found that those that can draw are far more valuable to the company.

2. They teach you how to view your animation with a critical eye. Over time you begin to notice what you need to look for. I promise you the stuff you see when your first starting out, and the stuff you see 5 years later are completely different. It's a skill that must be cultivated. :)

3. It teaches you the basics of animation and acting ... The fundamentals or principals. You are very wrong in your assumption that you can learn the principals quickly. You can memorize them quickly, but learning how to properly apply them takes a lot of practice.

4. Allows you to work with other artists, and begin to form relationships. These friendships are invaluable. They give you a group of people to get critique from, and also give you a base of friends that can potentially help you get a job later. Networking is super important!

I'm sure there are a lot of other reasons I'm not thinking of at the moment....

As far as content goes. You start basic and work your way to complex.

Common ones include (from easiest to hardest):
1.Pendulum swinging
2.generic bouncing ball, and then progress to doing 3 bounces balls of different weights (tennis ball, bowling ball, beach ball/balloon.)
3. Jump
4. Side step
5. generic walk cycle
6. character walk cycle
7. interacting with something heavy
8. expressing a single emotion
9. gear change (going from one emotion to another.)
10. 2 characters interacting physically, pantomime (no dialogue)
11. monologue (1 character talking)
12. dialogue (2 characters talking)

The list goes on and on, but that's covers the basic exercises most schools teach in one way or another.

I hope it helps some,
Leif

eathquaketry
12-25-2009, 04:52 PM
Thanks alot alot alot for your precious words and i appreciate that very very much. You just told me what to do and i feel that after finishing some of these i will know what to do after.

eathquaketry
12-25-2009, 06:34 PM
Hi MR Aluuk ,

Actually if i can do something more than saying thank you i will do , i did walks and runs and other stuff and got stucked what else can i do and you just told me what to do and i think this will take alot of time and as i guess after doing somethings from these stuff i will know to do after that.

thanks alot for your time to write all these great great info. and who says i dont know knows alot like you .

thanks Aluuk..........

Aluuk
12-25-2009, 07:14 PM
You're very welcome. I hope it helps some! Happy Holidays!

-Leif

paulmcg1
12-25-2009, 07:25 PM
Those are some good posts Leif! Checked out your website and you've got a nice bunch of animation tests.

bushjumperpete
01-11-2010, 09:40 PM
I know exactly how you feel, I was once like that too!
After practising for a few years, I still get like that.
What really helped was having a well developed and disciplined workflow, starting with collecting reference material (and realising how important reference material really is helped me a lot too), thumbnail sketching key poses, blocking in points of interaction with props or characters, then the key poses, contacts, extremes, bla bla, then onto splinning then on to hands and then on to face blocking and splining and finally polishing. However that is the workflow that suits me everyone is different, but the moment I started really using this workflow my work became more organised the animations neater and then I felt I was nearly there I could nearly call myself an animator.
Also practice again and again, character pushing, pulling, jumping, throwing, climbing etc as said previously. Just doing one of these a week you will see your animation improve again and again.
Be careful of the animation courses, due to the surge in people wanting to become animators universities are cashing in and a lot of courses aren't very good, you may come out with an academic qualification but no real animation skills. Make sure the course you go for is recognised by the industry and you can see previous students work, most universities will have one star student which worked as hard as they could and they will show that off, but you want to find the course's where they have a showreel of students work. I'm not going to list them as thats up to you to choose which is suitable for you but if you can afford it look at the possibility of studying on courses in Canada or France as well as the popular animation mentor course.
I also recommend the 11 second club, they run monthly competitions open to all levels, but most important of all you get to see the WIP of some brilliant animators and how they build up their animation. If you feel brave enough have ago post your WIP's and there is a forum of people happy to help
I hope that was of some help to you.

MugenTsukiyomi
01-14-2010, 11:32 PM
I know this is not my thread but think you all for your advice, It helped me a lot.

marinabenites
01-18-2010, 01:56 PM
opss... it's my first time... i was wrong

marinabenites
01-18-2010, 05:02 PM
HI eathquaketry!

I know how you feel. I study animation a lot too. Reached a point that you know the animation is not good, but you don't know why. In this point you need help for someone who knows more than you. A mentor. Because you don't see where the problem. For this foruns, friends and couses are a good idea. Now i'm here. Because i need help!
Also, study, study, agains and agains..!!
(sorry for my bad English)

eathquaketry
01-18-2010, 07:10 PM
I know exactly how you feel, I was once like that too!
After practising for a few years, I still get like that.
What really helped was having a well developed and disciplined workflow, starting with collecting reference material (and realising how important reference material really is helped me a lot too), thumbnail sketching key poses, blocking in points of interaction with props or characters, then the key poses, contacts, extremes, bla bla, then onto splinning then on to hands and then on to face blocking and splining and finally polishing. However that is the workflow that suits me everyone is different, but the moment I started really using this workflow my work became more organised the animations neater and then I felt I was nearly there I could nearly call myself an animator.
Also practice again and again, character pushing, pulling, jumping, throwing, climbing etc as said previously. Just doing one of these a week you will see your animation improve again and again.
Be careful of the animation courses, due to the surge in people wanting to become animators universities are cashing in and a lot of courses aren't very good, you may come out with an academic qualification but no real animation skills. Make sure the course you go for is recognised by the industry and you can see previous students work, most universities will have one star student which worked as hard as they could and they will show that off, but you want to find the course's where they have a showreel of students work. I'm not going to list them as thats up to you to choose which is suitable for you but if you can afford it look at the possibility of studying on courses in Canada or France as well as the popular animation mentor course.
I also recommend the 11 second club, they run monthly competitions open to all levels, but most important of all you get to see the WIP of some brilliant animators and how they build up their animation. If you feel brave enough have ago post your WIP's and there is a forum of people happy to help
I hope that was of some help to you.


you said ( collecting reference material ) and told us some exampels of it but could you please demonstrate it more or drop alink that demonstrate that and also about workflow i have one but we can share our workflows to get the best one.
Mine is that i am trying to master the principels, i did but i still doing that again and again and again , do character walks alot of time and also dialouges and i dont pay attention to the facial expressions right now , this my workflow and also i have dvds that i am working with. if we shared our workflows it will be very cool for all of us. thanks.

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