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View Full Version : How do you feel about Poser?


gmask
08-20-2003, 01:56 AM
Given the rash of Poser sightings lately I thought a POLL about it was in order. Don't hate me for asking :blush:

P_T
08-20-2003, 08:07 AM
personally i think it's more suitable for 2D artists who wants to have the extra freedom and ease that 3D offers and that's probably why most Poser art i've seen are just heavily postworked stills... another thing is, some people started with Poser before moving on to more advance programs.

i heard people say "it's not the program, it's the artist" again and again so if someone can make exceptional art with it then why not??

The Cross
08-20-2003, 08:30 AM
Poser is just a simple software with less features. It is what it is. So other than that, i don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm sure if you put any hotshot on poser they'd still put out nice stuff.

gmask
08-20-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by The Cross
Poser is just a simple software with less features. It is what it is. So other than that, i don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm sure if you put any hotshot on poser they'd still put out nice stuff.

Okay but is using Poser actually modelling? Do you really model anything in Poser?

I'm not saying as a software it is wrong but it is certainly misleading to let people think you "modelled" something when you only posed it.

P_T
08-20-2003, 09:59 AM
well the blame goes to the artist then... they're probably just newbies who can't tell the difference between modelling and posing...

all u got in the way of modelling in Poser is a buncha primitives and magnet tool... sure technically u can make any shape u want with it but about the only thing u can make without going mad is a simple models like ball with bump maps for details :D

gmask
08-20-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by P_T
well the blame goes to the artist then... they're probably just newbies who can't tell the difference between modelling and posing...

all u got in the way of modelling in Poser is a buncha primitives and magnet tool... sure technically u can make any shape u want with it but about the only thing u can make without going mad is a simple models like ball with bump maps for details :D

I see as basically being a stock model program that allows you to customize the models. Back int eh day I aw some very non landscape type images come out of Bryce but I know that the person had to do alot of work to create their model in that program. it's amazing what primatives and displacement maps can do.

LocoMan
08-20-2003, 07:37 PM
In me personal opinion, that is, I don't see anything wrong with using poser as a tool. It doesn't replace art at all, if you see most of the images made with poser, most of it looks liveless and has that mannequin feel, while I've seen other images made with it that actually feel alive and have good composition and the like. If you can do good stuff with it, I don't see why not using it to begin with. I think most of the bad press poser is getting is simply because since it's so easy to use (and so easy to make a naked girl/buff guy image with) there are lots of people using it with no artistic sense at all, so the crap to art ratio is a lot higher in poser, IMHO... :)

gmask
08-20-2003, 08:07 PM
>>>If you can do good stuff with it, I don't see why not using it to begin with.

Againt eh mainissues is that if you post an image on Renderosity it is expected that your image was probaly made using Poser but here it is confusing as to wether your talent lies in composition or modelling. I think in this setting people have the right to know how soemthing was created.


On th eother hand if you went to an art exhibit and you saw two nudes and one was a photgraph and the other was a CG woman made in Poser but well done then it may not matter how it was made.

The point being that this site isn't about just showing the end product.. it is about the whole process and it's unfair to the group of users when one decides to conceal or otherwise misrepresent how something was created. The spirit of the site is IMO supposed to be about the users contributing to the group by example. So is lieing and plagairism exmples we want to follow?

Sure Poser is a tool but if you buy a bunch of stock models are they tools? Can you use them in your project sand say I made them? You can but you are fooling yourself.. no matter how great the end result. However if the end product sells or meets the requirement sof the job then great but it's still a self-delusion.

Poser the double edged sword.

Goon
08-20-2003, 08:32 PM
Has a certain someone offered any explination of his actions?

gmask
08-20-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Goon
Has a certain someone offered any explination of his actions?

I guess the point being that if you submit your work for review here or just to show it that it should be mandatory to reveal the usage of premade materials.

In one particular case..probably not the one you are thinking.. the explanation was this.. they made the image for their girlfriend, they didn't speak english and where they come from this kind of thing is typical. The model was from Poser and the composition was from another artist. They were heralded as being a genius artist here on CGtalk.. so it make me wonder if I take a poser model and project the Mona Lisa over it.. am I genius.. I mean assuming that the end result looks good?

In any case the persons reaction to being discovered or revealed should be apologetic or at least humble. In the case I speak of that was more or less the reaction.. they simple didn't know that it was bad form to borrow so much and not mention it. In the case you might be thinking of the artist's reaction is ugly and arrogant. He accuses the viewers as being jealous and guilty or doing the same things. He offers no apology, no humility and no remorse. Basically the reaction of someone caught redhanded and who cannot handle their own guilt. When you build up people to think you are this talented modeller and then it turns out that your new found "skill" in modelling is to use Poser it's messed up.

Sure naked pictures of ladies are fun to look at and surely they are plentiful but who would respect more the artist who rendered one with patience and skill or the one who took the shortcut and then lied about it? Even if they didn't lie about it I would marvel at the person who did it from scratch while the other I would just shrug at..yawn.. yet another naked lady.. big deal.. go over to renderosity and oggle your eyes out...plenty of that kind of fodder over there.

loked
08-20-2003, 09:38 PM
I HATE POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you work in an industry, like South African industry where most people cant tell the difference between good quality 3d and shit quality 3d, then you'll hate poser. People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".

They all look the same and they're terrible looking. I guess there's nothing you can do about it, people made it and people buy it, but I personally hate it!!!:thumbsdow

This is my opinion, so please if you're a poser fan and you feel the need to argue this, rather dont:) Thanks!!

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-20-2003, 09:39 PM
>>>But, decided to post an image anyway, and deliberately left out the software, because i wanted to know what people here though about the image itself.


Well your stuff looks pretty good but I noticed that you do mention what software as used on specific images on your website... again I think if you post an image of just a womands face and don't mention that it's Poser that it's sort of pushing the threshold.. especially if people start commenting on ho wmuch they like the model..

Fashion model photographers for example cannot take full responsisibility for making a model beautiful... this is obvious. But with CG it may not be so clear cut as to what base is for that beauty.. a CG artist could have modelled the model or used one from a library.. In the end if you just like to look at beautiful women you may not care how it was created. Againt he issue is I guess more of a case by case issue.. if somebody saw your portrait of a womens head and said it was great model would you immediately point out that it was a Poser model?

Maybe artists who don't want to be judged by their methods should say so when they post an image.

Another issue with this site in particular is that their is a mix of professional and amateur artists.. both exhibiting a high level of talent.. when I say amateur I only mean not for a living. The pros are more concerned with ethics I think.. if they are in a place where they hire artists or they want to be hired then the truth of how something was created is very relevant. In many jobs the end results may be what counts but being truthful with your employers is also valued. Being dishonest in general is not appreciated.. it's just best to be upfront.. did you do all the work or didn't you? This may even include stating things like the textures I used are based on digital stills I took of leaves..although in comparison to Poser a better example would be this is a picture of a nude woman that I repainted.

gmask
08-20-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by loked
I HATE POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you work in an industry, like South African industry where most people cant tell the difference between good quality 3d and shit quality 3d, then you'll hate poser. People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".


That's a real problem.. but you didn't vote for my clients are too cheap or in too much of a hurry..hehe..

Crap Poser work should not be allowd here.. that's what renderosity is for. personally I think Poser nudes and any nude repaint should not be allowed here.. any monkey can do it..I swear and there is no shortage of soft or hard pron on the net..jeez.. get the hormones under control guys..

I mean fan art in general I find questionable but at least you know where the inspiration came from... when somebody reproduces an obscure artists work and then doesn't mention it.. but is heralded as a genius it makes me MAD! I see that as only one rung below being Dale Williams IMO.

loked
08-20-2003, 09:56 PM
I completely agree gmask. Its like imagine you went and applied for a job as a rigger and showed them a rig made by animan or finalRig. You pressed a few buttons and you got a model, now you gonna go and boast that?? Come on!

Down with poser!!!!!:)

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-20-2003, 10:02 PM
>>>People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".

BTW .. just out of curiosity what kind of projects are you doing where Poser characters are acceptable?

loked
08-20-2003, 10:12 PM
gmask, this is the South African industry we talking about. Show them Gollum and a Poser character and they'll tell you its the same thing. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but its bad. Believe me, a lot of people have probably gotten away with Poser characters and Bryce scenes here!!

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-20-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by loked
gmask, this is the South African industry we talking about. Show them Gollum and a Poser character and they'll tell you its the same thing. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but its bad. Believe me, a lot of people have probably gotten away with Poser characters and Bryce scenes here!!

later:wavey:
loked

So just any project .. wether for film, games or commercials.. they'd go with whatever is cheapest.

loked
08-20-2003, 10:22 PM
Not everybody and we really dont have much of a film industry, at least not one that incorporates CG. But a lot of the smaller Ad Agencies when it comes to CG do choose to go the cheapest route. The biggest problem is really that they dont know any better. You would think that it's easy to recognise quality, but to someone who has no clue what 3d is, they cant even tell you the difference between 3d and 2d. To them it all ends up as pixels, so its the same thing and I'm not even talking about Toon shaded 3d:) You go and market yourself as a CG company and then people come back to you and ask you to design webpages or make them logos. How the hell you gonna show somebody an awesome character that talks and walks and then they gonna ask you to make a logo??

Its terrible man. Believe me! I'd actually like to hear some other South African's opinion on this one!

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-20-2003, 10:36 PM
>>>You go and market yourself as a CG company and then people come back to you and ask you to design webpages or make them logos. How the hell you gonna show somebody an awesome character that talks and walks and then they gonna ask you to make a logo??


Hehe.. well this is getting OT.. but I had a client recently say something like.. well just render it half rez and show it to me tommorrow.. as if all the work was in rendering it! The project setting composites for 60 shots.. uh yeah half rez is really going to make organizing a 400 layers much faster! Dumbass!

loked
08-20-2003, 10:42 PM
LOL:)


Oh well, in due time things will improve, otherwise I'm getting a job at McDonalds!!

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-20-2003, 10:52 PM
I guess in the future doing it from scratch will be a rarity

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 12:06 AM
You do realize that the models used in Poser are modelled in LW, Maya, Max etc.... At some point in the chain a modeller did make them, in a program you currently use.

They are just as much an expression of those programs, as they are "Poser". Poser is no better or worse than an extremely simplified ( and antique) Motionbuilder for hobbiests.

loked
08-21-2003, 12:20 AM
So the guy that first modelled it in Maya or whatever can have his credit. Good job, you modelled a mediocre human:thumbsup:

The point is that people then come along and take that model and boast it as theirs. They post pictures of it on the net and ask for feedback. The guy that originally modelled it, can do that, but imagine you came on the net now and asked for feedback on your awesome character and all you did was grip Jason's Mac Ape from his DVD and put him in a nice pose! I'm sorry, there is no art in poser characters and I personally think they suck and they dont appeal to me at all.

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-21-2003, 12:33 AM
>>>You do realize that the models used in Poser are modelled in LW, Maya, Max etc.... At some point in the chain a modeller did make them, in a program you currently use.

I agree with Loked this makes no difference.. if you let people think you nmodelled something you didn't it's still unethical especially when it comes to getting hired. For example it owuld be the same if you had a person scanned but claimed you modelled it.. you didn't you used a scanner.. if you modelled th eoriginal in clay that's another story.

But even art has it's limits on "the ends justify the means". For example Animal rights activists had a fit over an artist who wanted to kill a bunch of mice a while back.. I don't even want to know what ends justifies the means in that case. In general using that rationalization reveals a very flimsy set of morals IMO.

>>>They are just as much an expression of those programs, as they are "Poser". Poser is no better or worse than an extremely simplified ( and antique) Motionbuilder for hobbiests.

If I took a mannequin and propped it up in a gallery.. is that much of an expression?

A guy who collects model trains does not claim he built the trains and well building landscapes for train sets.. how pedestrian can you get. It't a hobby and maybe somebodies expression but it rates very low on the "ART" scale. You'd have to get real creative to get beyond ..creepy guy who spends too much time in the basement with his trainset.

My opinion about guys making nude girls in Poser is.. can't get a girlfriend?? then make a imaginary one in Poser :love: .. you only only fooling yourself if you think she's real or that you made her.

loked
08-21-2003, 12:43 AM
Well put gmask:thumbsup:

Who the $%@% wants to look at nude poser models anyway?? Come on now, thats a little ridiculous:)

later:wavey:
loked

P_T
08-21-2003, 01:32 AM
im a bit confused here... wat exactly is the issue here?? like i said before, the real good art produced using Poser are usually postworked heavily and therefore using something like Photoshop or Painter which means good skill in 2D... noone bashes 2D art here right??

and wat happened to "it's the artist not the program" that people been saying here and elsewhere again and again?? that somehow doesn't apply to Poser?

basically wat im saying is just coz u see mostly crap poser art, doesn't mean the program itself is bad... i agree it should stay in Renderosity and out of CGtalk but i don't understand the animosity towards the program itself since there are some real good art done with it like that Poser 5 advertisement i saw in some 3d magazine...

gmask
08-21-2003, 01:44 AM
>>im a bit confused here... wat exactly is the issue here?? like i said before, the real good art produced using Poser are usually postworked heavily and therefore using something like Photoshop or Painter which means good skill in 2D... noone bashes 2D art here right??

Actually there have been numerous disputes over 2d works that were basically tracings or repaints of a photograph and the artist claimed that it was from scratch. Honesty is the meat of the issue.


>>and wat happened to "it's the artist not the program" that people been saying here and elsewhere again and again?? that somehow doesn't apply to Poser?

I hear that mainly in debates over which 3d application is better and specifically which modellign program is best. I can't considered Poser a modelling program and using stock models and adding stock props to it is not modelling either.

>>>basically wat im saying is just coz u see mostly crap poser art, doesn't mean the program itself is bad... i agree it should stay in Renderosity and out of CGtalk but i don't understand the animosity towards the program itself since there are some real good art done with it like that Poser 5 advertisement i saw in some 3d magazine...

Maybe it's bit elistest but any schmoo can if they try hard make something half decent with/in Poser.. likewise any amateur photographer given the opportunity to take nude photos of some super model might have a picture worth alot of money.. On the other hand Poser work in some cases only brings down the fee that one can charge for more skilled work and at the same time floods the market with mediorce crud.

Anyway the main isue is that ... if you show a Poser model you should be upfront.. if you are spotted using one then tell the truth or if somebdoy compliments you on the model or asks for a wireframe it would be forthcoming to tell the truth. You will be respected for being honest.. nobody likes a liar.

P_T
08-21-2003, 05:48 AM
>>I hear that mainly in debates over which 3d application is better and specifically which modellign program is best. I can't considered Poser a modelling program and using stock models and adding stock props to it is not modelling either.

aahh... i understand now... i was under the impression that it wasn't just about modelling program, i thought it doesn't matter wat program u use to make art... :shrug:

i agree with the honesty part but i disagree with "making anything decent in Poser" part... it is practically impossible to make anything decent in Poser without the help of (heavy) postwork... :p

gmask
08-21-2003, 06:16 AM
>>> i thought it doesn't matter wat program u use to make art... :shrug:

It may not .. it really is an issue of context.. as a piece art on it's own process may have no importance. Bu ton a forum where people are often complimented for their modelling abilities it is incorrect to accept kudos for something you didn't do. IE if somebody compliments you on your modelling abilites and you didn't model anythiogn it would be appropriate to say so.

>>>i agree with the honesty part but i disagree with "making anything decent in Poser" part... it is practically impossible to make anything decent in Poser without the help of (heavy) postwork... :p

I said with/in meaning as far as geometry goes it makes a decent model.. you can paint over it or texture it.. you still didn't model it.

Make pose in it and trace over it you may have a great "drawing" of a female but you are foolign yourself to think that you have master the understanding of form and space.

I guess many people wanna take the shortcut.. I just don't find that as fullfilling or you walk with nothing as far as skill goes.

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 08:13 AM
I missunderstood the question as the poll doesn't say " Do you think its wrong for people to claim they modelled poser figures". It just says "How do you feel about Poser".

And the mediochre human comment was uncalled for. Besides there are far more than just humans. I model and rig Poser models for others and have yet to do anything human. Cartoons, Monsters; Poser is simply a content delivery vehicle. If the average hobbiest could use/afford Messiah or Motionbuilder, then I'd happily move to one of those programs, as the quality of the content would also improve.

And more to the point, any of these models get oohs and ahhhs over in the forums here, could just as easily be rigged in Poser as they could in their native program; albeit not quite as well. Just because something is rigged in Poser for the average consumer, does not suddenly make that model a piece of crap.

So yes its wrong for someone to use one of my models and claim they made it. Is it wrong for them to use them? I don't think so. I model things, I don't pose or render them. After something is modelled rigged, and UV mapped its done for me, and I don't look at it.

I do however find it interesting to watch the compositions made with it. And this is probably no less the situation when a studio modeller hands the model to the rigging expert, who then hands it to an animator. At some point the modeller, texture artist, and rigger, are watching the animator's composition.

loked
08-21-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by MallenLane


And the mediochre human comment was uncalled for. Besides there are far more than just humans.

Hey MallenLane,

In my opinion they are mediocre. I dont go ooh or aah when I see a poser model. I apologise if my opinion of those models dont run parallel with yours. I have not really seen any cartoon models or monsters and I was talking specifically about the human ones, thats why I said "mediocre human models". Maybe when I see one of the monster ones it'll seem better than mediocre. For now, I stand by my opinion of a human poser model. Its doesnt cut it for me. Not at all!:thumbsdow

Sorry if I offended you, I'm sure alot of people do appreciate your models, I just dont.

later:wavey:
loked

loked
08-21-2003, 10:49 AM
>>>>>I do however find it interesting to watch the compositions made with it. And this is probably no less the situation when a studio modeller hands the model to the rigging expert, who then hands it to an animator. At some point the modeller, texture artist, and rigger, are watching the animator's composition.
>>>>>

Oh yeah, I forgot this part.

I think the major point here and that this has become fairly obvious, is that people take these models and claim them to be theirs. If someone needs a model just to work on his texturing and uses a poser model, then takes his pic and puts it in a texturing forum and explains that he used a poser model, but he wants crits purely on his texturing, then its fine. But dont post it on a WIP site and ask people what they think. 8 out of 10 are going to say "Nice model maybe just add a little more detail on the knuckles".

There are a lot of things similar to poser, like IKjoe which is an already setup character, but nobody is posting that on a riggin forum and askin for feedback. Its purely used for animation. Thats the point!!! This argument is becoming about the quality of poser models and whether people should use poser or not and it really boils down to if you use it, be honest about it and dont get false praise!!

Once again, I apologise for my comment on the quality as that was not part of the discussion.

later:wavey:
loked

P_T
08-21-2003, 03:18 PM
if the issue here is honesty then i think it's safe to say that everyone will agree, however as MallenLane mentioned, the title of the thread is a bit too general since it only ask about how people feel about Poser.

another thing is one of the poll options that states "I cannot respect an artist who claims they modelled something made in Poser" is also inaccurate since anyone who has decent knowledge in 3D should know that basically u CAN'T model anything in Poser and therefore realised that anyone who claimed to have modelled a human character in Poser is just a newbie with minimal knowledge of 3D (and maybe cut them some slack and give them a little guidance??)

btw, i think a "human poser model" product named Vicky3 got a review of 10/10 in 3DWorld magazine a while back and it was used as a previz tool in Jet Li's movie The One.

loked
08-21-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by P_T
btw, i think a "human poser model" product named Vicky3 got a review of 10/10 in 3DWorld magazine a while back and it was used as a previz tool in Jet Li's movie The One.

P_T, I'm actually a little tired of this now, so I'll end it in a nice way. I dont like poser models irrespective of how many awards they got or how great everybody else thinks they are. Maybe I got bad taste, but I am entitled to my taste. So please lets drop this. If I posted one of my models and you said you dont like the style, or you just dont like the model, thats 100% fine. Everybody to his own:thumbsup:

In terms of what the topic says and how this conversation relates, you are correct it probably isnt titled properly. Thats something I guess you gonna have to take up with gmask:)


later
loked

P_T
08-21-2003, 03:58 PM
fair enough... if u mean poser human model is mediocre in their look/shape then i agree. the model topology itself is quite well designed i think and that's why i mentioned the magazine review. :)

loked
08-21-2003, 04:10 PM
I've never really seen the topology, so I honestly wasnt commenting on that at all:beer:

You see, we can agree and all be friend:)


later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-21-2003, 05:26 PM
>>>another thing is one of the poll options that states "I cannot respect an artist who claims they modelled something made in Poser" is also inaccurate since anyone who has decent knowledge in 3D should know that basically u CAN'T model anything in Poser and therefore realised that anyone who claimed to have modelled a human character in Poser is just a newbie with minimal knowledge of 3D (and maybe cut them some slack and give them a little guidance??)


You are are misreading the option .. it doesn't say I can't respect an artist who "models" in Poser.. but perhaps it should say I can't respect an artist who takes credit for modelling something in Poser.. the issue here is people (especially ones who should know better) using models from poser or elsewhere and getting compliments for the model and letting people beleive they made the model. IS that clear?

P_T
08-21-2003, 05:40 PM
You are are misreading the option .. it doesn't say I can't respect an artist who "models" in Poser.. but perhaps it should say I can't respect an artist who takes credit for modelling something in Poser..

all i did was copy and paste from the option ;) and maybe as the person who created the poll, u're the one who should've made the option clearer...:)

the issue here is people (especially ones who should know better) using models from poser or elsewhere and getting compliments for the model and letting people beleive they made the model. IS that clear?

i made it clear earlier that i do agree with u about the honesty issue... and i quote myself "if the issue here is honesty then i think it's safe to say that everyone will agree,..."

all im saying is that u should've made the topic clearer in this thread by specifying the honesty issue instead of just asking how people feel about Poser which basically means that u're asking people how they feel about the program. :)

gmask
08-21-2003, 05:50 PM
>>>all i did was copy and paste from the option ;) and maybe as the person who created the poll, u're the one who should've made the option clearer...:)

I see nothing wrong with my syntax .. it seems clear to most readers as far as I can tell except for you :love:


>>>all im saying is that u should've made the topic clearer in this thread by specifying the honesty issue instead of just asking how people feel about Poser which basically means that u're asking people how they feel about the program. :)

I think it's crappy program, that produces crappy results unless you export the "stock" models into another program and even then many of the resulting pieces have issues wiith joints being bent in weird ways etc.

Is Poser an easy way for a novice to make 3D art.. sure but just don't lie about it. As a progam Poser is far more guilty of this kind of behaviour than any other program? Why is that? I guess cause horny teenagers like to make 3d nude women? Actually I'll say the same thing about XSI.. it now comes with a Poser of sorts built in.. how many times weill we see models from the preset library and thinkt he person showing it is more skilled than they led us to beleive?

unclebob
08-21-2003, 06:02 PM
About 3 years ago there was a court trial (murder if memory serves) in the USA. The prosecutor used Poser3 to show that the defendant had commited the act, had something to do with line of fire and time line. Anyhoo.. the defence didn't want it shown because ... now get this... it was too realistic and damning and cold sway the jury.

back to the topic at hand,

Poser model could be used for scale in architectural work OR as background (like a mall scene) but shouldn't be shown as a stand-alone "work of art" here. This is just taking a "model" and customizing it (posing and costuming). It would be like everyone here using the same Star Wars model(s), adding different textures to it and calling it "their art".

Also, as said previsiously, if a Poser model is used.. then it should be stated so in the post.

just my humble opinion.

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 06:13 PM
Think of it as virtual photography and I think it will make more sense to you.

A photographer doesn't make the person standing in front of him, he just takes the pictures.

loked
08-21-2003, 06:13 PM
This thread is really starting to get monotonous. :hmm:

I think we all agree on the fact that poser models should not be shown off unless the person makes it very apparent that it is a poser model and secondly, I think we can all also agree that poser models really dont look good:) Okay, that ones just my opinion coming out again!

I think most people can get a good understanding of what this thread is about now, so there should be no more confusion.

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-21-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by MallenLane
Think of it as virtual photography and I think it will make more sense to you.

A photographer doesn't make the person standing in front of him, he just takes the pictures.

That's a good point except that.. you know that the photographer didn't create the subject by hand.. it's not allways so clear cut with CG art.

You can also push your above statement to an extreme.. If I take a picture of a Rodin... who's artistry is being taken advantage of the Rodin's or the photgraphers?

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 06:52 PM
since its a solid piece, and has no real ability to led itself to an artists expression, than its just a photo of a painting.

Same would be true if someone opened up Poser, plopped a model in it a scene without doing anything to it.. thats just a render of my model.

Its only when the person begins to express their vision of what they are working with, is it art?

But I don't think loked wants this conversation to continue, as he just can't seem to not look, if he's no longer interested.

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 06:57 PM
Although, if you had various paintings arranged on a wall, whose themes all meant something to the photographer, or to the viewer when taken as a whole...

Then that could be art, as a new meaning is now imparted by the recomposition and arrangement.

Which is nothing new, words individually mean things, but we recombine them into large constructs, and suddenly you have novels and poetry.

We seem caught up in applauding people for their skill, and not their soul.

gmask
08-21-2003, 07:22 PM
>>since its a solid piece, and has no real ability to led itself to an artists expression, than its just a photo of a painting.

Rodin did also do sculpture.. which is what I was actually thinking.. so then wouldn't it just be a picture of a sculpture?

.. the point here is that the photographer will pick a composition that adds new perspective to the subject... in several of the works that have been debated here.. even the composition was borrowed. I don't there is very much expression in copying art work especially when you have to use other peoples models to accomplish it. it may be a good excercise but in and of itself it is may not be artistic.

Of course you look at artists like DuChamp.. who signed a urinal and called it sculpture..the difference being that he was making a commentary on the obiqitity of manufactured objects. To be honest I see few CG works that contain any potent content..


>>>Same would be true if someone opened up Poser, plopped a model in it a scene without doing anything to it.. thats just a render of my model.


Well how far do you have to go to cross the line? That's the real question. Personally I'm tired of seeign Poser models touched up so that they look good as "nude" studies. Htey are just that studies.. I'm not attracted to CG nudes in particular and I can see no real artistic merit.. their may be craft involved but for me I owuld prefer for an artist to have some sort of philosophy or explaination for their work.

>>>Its only when the person begins to express their vision of what they are working with, is it art?

"I see nude people" .. I have made exceptions for pieces that do this but still because of the context of these forums I thought I was looking at something the artist has modelled and thought "hey that person is a really good modeller" and then it turned out that they weren't. From now on I will view most figurative works shown here with suspicion.

>>But I don't think loked wants this conversation to continue, as he just can't seem to not look, if he's no longer interested.

I can understand were he is coming from.. it sucks when you want to take th etime and get paid for building model sfrom scratch and your clients only care about whats the most cheap. Nothing will make you as an artist feel like a tool than to have clients talk down to your like you are some piec eof machcinery that should take all the abuse they can dish out and then be willing to do even more for less.

Poser may make it possible for aspiring artists to get their visions out there.. personally I'd say a large portion of those visions aren't worth looking at. A photographer that made a habit of only taking pcitures of mannequins would be pretty boring not matter what he added to them. I just see that many of the results of Poser art is a cliche.

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 07:41 PM
Blah I had a big message all written, and the thing lost it heh.

Yes there are many tasteless pointless nudes in Poser. Take for instance this awful naked hatchling seadragon. At least it doesn't have breasts thank god.

gmask
08-21-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by MallenLane
Blah I had a big message all written, and the thing lost it heh.

Yes there are many tasteless pointless nudes in Poser. Take for instance this awful naked hatchling seadragon. At least it doesn't have breasts thank god.

So are you saying you made this entirely in Poser?

gmask
08-21-2003, 07:51 PM
>>>We seem caught up in applauding people for their skill, and not their soul.

I think we agree here.. Someone might beable to make a tasteful nude in poser or from scratch but in both cases it may be just another nude.

For example every year there must be thousands of good figure drawing studies done.. are they worth anything to anyone except the artist?.. probably not.. . but if said artist becomes famous suddenly every scrap of paper they ever doodled on is valuable,.. not because the student work was all that creative or even skillful but because of what the artist became afterwards.

loked
08-21-2003, 08:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>But I don't think loked wants this conversation to continue, as he just can't seem to not look, if he's no longer interested.


Thats very cute, but I keep getting emails and I keep following the link hoping to read something constructive. To my suprise, its you going in circles:thumbsdow

I guess I'll just have to unsubscribe:cry:

later:wavey:
loked

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 08:09 PM
Its a Lightwave model, that was rigged and rendered in Poser. Nothing can be made in Poser except images. It has nothing whatsoever that could be remotely considered a "model making tool".

There is no such thing as a "Poser model" only a "Model made in xxprogramxx rigged in Poser".

Whether you can tell if someone is using a model they themselves made or just a stock model ( Most programs do come with demo models, including LW) isn't really relevant to the specific program at all.

You can just as easily use pre-made content in any other program.

MallenLane
08-21-2003, 08:13 PM
For instance, the free models 3D festival has been releasing in various formats that modellers who post/read these very forums made.

Those models are out there, people use them, they are essentially stock models. Some people do try to pass them off as their own. Is that wrong? Yes.

You are confusing an issue of honesty which covers every program out there, and lumping it with Poser.

gmask
08-21-2003, 08:22 PM
>>>You are confusing an issue of honesty which covers every program out there, and lumping it with Poser.

Poser is the most readily recognizable source of many stock models.. they are easier to spot and are frequently abused. That's why this kind of dishonestly is associated with the program Poser.

P_T
08-22-2003, 02:53 AM
"I see nothing wrong with my syntax .. it seems clear to most readers as far as I can tell except for you"

it is clear except for the fact that it doesn't match with the title... and as i mentioned before, anyone who knows a lot about 3D should know that it's not possible to model in Poser and should give those newbies who can't tell the difference between modelling and posing a little break ... u seemed to have missed that part of my previous post Gmask... and if u read loked post earlier, u would know he agreed with me that the title of the thread doesn't reflect the issue that u tried to present here...

and for the last time, i DO agree with u on the honesty issue...

gmask
08-22-2003, 03:58 AM
>>>it is clear except for the fact that it doesn't match with the title...

How so???.. every option is in regards to Poser.. the poll has Poser in the subject.. Yeah if somebody claimed they modellled something in Poser they are fooling themselves but that's not the option I gave.. if something was made in Poser that does not mean that it as modelled in the program it only means that you clicked a button and voila it was created.. So if you say you modelled a shape but it was "made: in Poser you are a liar.. can I be any more pedantic with the explaination of option 4.. wether or not you reveal that an object was "made" in Poser if you say you modelled it you are either a fool or a liar or just don't understand the concept of modelling. I can cut slack for a person who obviously is new and doesn't know the difference.

Maybe I should have titled the POLL "how do you feel about liars and fools who use Poser"?

Ibox
08-22-2003, 06:04 AM
Poser smoaser, who cares? really... well, I suppose to date there are 63 people who have shown interest, out of how many thousand members? and then there's the point that 23 members out of the 63 have shown total dislike for the product, which brings the number down to 40 who are interested, out of some 49,000 citezens... haha too funny... bottom line here... whatever turns one's crank I suppose... now back to some real modeling, even if it is only a lowly mediocre space buggy, at least it will be all mine hahaha

ciya

P_T
08-22-2003, 06:57 AM
Maybe I should have titled the POLL "how do you feel about liars and fools who use Poser"?

well maybe u should've coz then all these discussion wouldn't be necessary since everyone would've agreed with u that people should be honest about it when they use poser.

for example, read some of the earliest posts in this thread.
Poser is just a simple software with less features. It is what it is. So other than that, i don't see anything wrong with it.
In me personal opinion, that is, I don't see anything wrong with using poser as a tool.

as u can see, they're about people's feeling on the program itself, not about how they feel when someone made a false claim saying they modelled something in Poser. From those examples u should be able to come to a conclusion that:

1. u have made an inaccurate title for the issue that u want to address.
2. u did not specify further the issue that u want to address by just saying "Given the rash of Poser sightings lately I thought a POLL about it was in order.". it sounded as if u just don't like people who use Poser posting in CGtalk and not about the dishonesty.

gmask
08-22-2003, 09:15 PM
>>1. u have made an inaccurate title for the issue that u want to address.

I actually my pown vote on the POLL was that I thin using Poser is okay as long as people mention in the first post.

The POLL is about various feelings about Poser.. so again.. I see no problem with the title.. you for some reason wish to bicker over it.


>>>2. u did not specify further the issue that u want to address by just saying "Given the rash of Poser sightings lately I thought a POLL about it was in order.". it sounded as if u just don't like people who use Poser posting in CGtalk and not about the dishonesty.

Again my statement ("Given the rash of Poser sightings lately I thought a POLL about it was in order." ) is a simple fact.. there have been several sightings on this website recently were Poser was used and not being credited. You could interpret my statement as being for Poser.. I could be saying that it is unfair that Poser does not get credit when credit is due for a piece of software. Now this is not Poser's fault but for some reason people who use Poser seem to not understand why giving this credit is proper. To my knowledge there have not been as many sighting sof other uncredited uses of stock or free models here.. but when there is a spotting it is Poser... again not Poser's fault.. I dunno sounds like a gun debate.. people kill people not Poser...

If you want to post work on a website where your technique will not be scrutinized this is not the place to do it! Capisce!

As far as "tools" goes Poser is one of a few softwares that make it easy for someone with no skill whatsoever to "create" a photoreal model of a human. That's quite a tool. Yet I have seen many peopel create original, high quality characters that go unnoticed.. or is it because the works created using Poser models are that much better or is it because they are often nude women.. go figure? I think it's pretty much that to your average 16 year old boy that nude women pretty much override any sensitivity to actual art.

There are people who just plain don't like Poser in any context.. but I'm not actually one of them despite what you may think. I could however care less if I ever saw another model from Poser on this website especially if it is yet another nude woman or yet another recreation of some existing piece of art both of which I think are excercies in a total lack of creativity. IMO art is about creativity not about coping or simple nudity.

P_T
08-23-2003, 11:00 AM
if u still can't see wat's wrong with the way u open this thread then i guess it's no biggie... :)

contrary to popular belief, not only those 16 years old teens use Poser... if u actually take the time to go to Renderosity u'll find out that a lot of Poser users are actually women... yes, WOMEN...

some of them have family and a lot of them don't have the chance to get a master degree in 3D modelling or digital animations so they use Poser to satisfy their art needs.

im not saying u're against people using Poser but u're still displaying the same condescending attitude towards this program and its users typical to highend 3D program users.

look, obviously we're not gonna agree so im just gonna stop posting now... i sincerely hope we're not becoming enemy or anything...

loked
08-23-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by P_T
. i sincerely hope we're not becoming enemy or anything...

I hope that most debates or arguments dont come to that. Its just a matter of opinion, theres definintely no need to become enemies:thumbsup:

later:wavey:
loked

gmask
08-23-2003, 08:53 PM
>>>if u still can't see wat's wrong with the way u open this thread then i guess it's no biggie... :)

There isn't anything wrong with the way I opened this thread.. nothign zip. This thread is within the rules established so like Poser I can do anything I like with it.

>>>contrary to popular belief, not only those 16 years old teens use Poser... if u actually take the time to go to Renderosity u'll find out that a lot of Poser users are actually women... yes, WOMEN...

Why would I waste my tiome going over to Poserosity??? The issue is that most of the peopel who comment of Poser nudes over here seem to be adoloscent.


>>>look, obviously we're not gonna agree so im just gonna stop posting now... i sincerely hope we're not becoming enemy or anything...

Please.:love:

P_T
08-24-2003, 02:12 AM
Please.:love:

wat's that supposed to mean? i was just trying to end this in a nice way. :surprised: u're nasty man:shame:

gmask
08-24-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by P_T
wat's that supposed to mean? i was just trying to end this in a nice way. :surprised: u're nasty man:shame:

:rolleyes:

bijou
08-24-2003, 03:50 AM
In MallenLane's defence... he modelled that in Wings and Lightwave.

He rigged that model for Poser, thats all. And anyone that's had to rig for Poser, knows just how hard that is. Its actually -easier- to rig for LW, from everyone that has LW that I've talked to. I'd love to get LW, but I have to still save my pennies. sigh.

So, is he less of a modeller because he rigs models for Poser?

This thread reminds me much of the 'what is art' threads I have seen in forums dedicated to 2d art and sculpture (the clay and marble variety), talking about ALL people that use a computer for art. Some of them look down as much on you as you look down on people using Poser. Is it art if you did it on a computer? ... they say. How dare you not use paint and canvas *g* Its not ART... they say! :)

I've won many a 2d art contest back when I was in school. Even a scholarship for my ink drawings in high school. Been doing silly 2d art for fun and hobby and occasionally a bit of money for oh, over 20 years. My forte is in human portrait painting and drawing. I discovered computers were good for it too... around 1995... and started exploring their potential instead. I'm mostly a texturer of 3d models but I like learning the modelling. Its like learning how to stretch your own canvas to me. I have gotten uvmapping down pretty well by now too. Its a lot of fun.

I'll admit, I'm not anywhere the modeller the majority of you are (though I can model, I use mostly Carrara and Amapi though... not rich here) but is my model of a vase any -less- than yours just because my software cost a few thousand dollars less? I probably am more experienced at texturing it, that's for sure.

Ok, some thoughts.

I think people who claim they made the models they use in Poser, summed up in one word, despicable. Its lying, plain and simple. If someone posts in the modelling forum and claims they modelled something like DAZ3d's Victoria... they deserve all the bouncing you can throw at them. I'll even help you.

But I will draw some 2d art comparisions that are going to sound silly... just to show how silly this argument is.

My boyfriend and I both do photography, its a hobby of ours. I like to create photorealistic textures from my photography work, and use them in Carrara mostly, but I occasionally bring them in Poser too. I own a beautiful high end Minolta DiMage 7Hi digital, a high end Sony digital videocam, and two regular SLR cameras, one being a pretty nice Olympus. And a great Nikon slide scanner. That equipment put us back a bit of money.

Now, are you going to tell me that in order to be a good photographer, I have to learn human cloning in order to take photographs of human subjects so I can do my photorealistic texturing of human models?

I see the art of rendering much as I see the art of photography. Its about composition and lighting, mostly. No photographer makes his own fashion models for Vogue, yet anyway *g* (and yes, I do know a fashion photographer!)

I like to paint, and draw. I mostly use gouache and ink, though I also enjoy pastel, watercolour, and ink. Do I suck as an artist because I didnt make my own paper? Should I open a paper mill?

anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. You're all better modellers than me... but I can DRAW people well... so there :P

I can go on and on and on about the shortcomings of Poser as a figure animation tool... people that use it regularly are only too aware of its problems. But I'd be a bit careful about calling them non-artists just because they might have started with it for cg work. Its an entry level package for figure reference and animation, no more or less than that. Many move on and eventually get a program like Lightwave, or even Maya. I often use renders of Poser figures as quick reference for 2d drawn art that uses none of the original Carrara render (I detest rendering in Poser, I export the figures to render). It is not a modeller and never was one.

gmask
08-24-2003, 04:14 AM
>>>In MallenLane's defence... he modelled that in Wings and Lightwave.

Thank you for clearing that up as I had no idea what he meant.

>>>So, is he less of a modeller because he rigs models for Poser?

No not at all.. in the discussion of Poser I'm pretty much focused on the use of the models.. but te main ppoint ifs that when you are using materials and methods from various sources you should state it upfront.. especially here where people will ask it anyway.

>>>Is it art if you did it on a computer? ... they say. How dare you not use paint and canvas *g* Its not ART... they say! :)

No that's not the issue here.. and I don't agree with that statement either.. I have certainly seen bad art done in fine arts mediums.



>>>is my model of a vase any -less- than yours just because my software cost a few thousand dollars less?

Again that's not the issue here.. you made your model of a vase.. you aren't using a preset vase model and then calling it your own.


>>>Now, are you going to tell me that in order to be a good photographer, I have to learn human cloning in order to take photographs of human subjects so I can do my photorealistic texturing of human models?

Again not the point.. with photography it's usually obvious what the photographers invovlement is with the subject matter. Whereas with the various CG methods avialable it is not so clear cut.

In the context of this forum since their seems to be an emphasis on the exchange of ideas then being less than forth coming about technique is not appreciated. Anyway based the POLL peol just want to know upfront what was used espcially if you used models from Poser but I think it is safe to say any model sthat you didn't make. In other contexts this may be completely unneccessary.


>>>I see the art of rendering much as I see the art of photography. Its about composition and lighting, mostly. No photographer makes his own fashion models for Vogue, yet anyway *g* (and yes, I do know a fashion photographer!)

Well maybe those who aren't creating their content as many here do should call themselves virtual photographers?

>>>I like to paint, and draw. I mostly use gouache and ink, though I also enjoy pastel, watercolour, and ink. Do I suck as an artist because I didnt make my own paper? Should I open a paper mill?

A human form and a piece of paper are a tough comparison.. in any case with the type of art we are talking about the body is not the canvas.. don't say that texturing mapping it qualifies it as being a canvas. Unless you typically paint on your body and display yourself in art exhibits ;-) Peices of paper aren't often the subject of works of art but then again anything could be.


>>>I often use renders of Poser figures as quick reference for 2d drawn art that uses none of the original Carrara render (I detest rendering in Poser, I export the figures to render).

This is what the program was actually developed for and I think it was great idea. As far as developing drawing skills there is a big difference between looking at a physical model and tracing over an image.. hopefully if you were using poser as a reference it was without tracing it... otherwise how would your skills drawing improve?

Electrofirma
08-25-2003, 09:36 AM
I've got no problem with Poser, as long as it is stated that it is Poser, and the 'artist' understands the difference between Poser and practically any other 3D app.

I think that Poser is a great tool for creating reference images as long as it is reference for proportions and musclulature. If you are using it for reference on the subtleties of an armpit or knee it is horrible.

When I first got Maya I spent a lot of time importing .obj's from Poser. Basically my learning curve in Maya was accelerated by playing with Poser objects. If you aren't a truly creative person it is nice to have something visually appealing on the screen while you learn basic polygon operations, UV mapping and rigging.

Now that my skills are improving I'm begining to feel more creative, and spend a lot less time staring at a blank screen, wondering where to start.

I'm a CG enthusiast, and aside from 2D mechanical drafting I don't play a part in the fast paced world of graphic arts, but if I did...

The only time I would use Poser is if the job called for a scantily clad, plasticy woman with a less than genuine smile, for $50.

Cyborgguineapig
09-02-2003, 08:08 AM
Although I can't really stand it myself when someone claims they can model by using Poser characters, I however do not agree on the poll choice of " my other favorite site is Renderosity"

Because this is generalizing that Renderosity is ONLY a Poser community. YES Renderosity is a big poser community but not all the work in the galleries are poser stuff. For example, I have my own little gallery of 3D models that are all created from scratch using Cinema 4D. Also some of the world's best modelors once in a while post something in the gallery on purpose to mock the poser peeps. With the attitude like " see boys and girls, this is how its really done!"

It is sad over there though, some people are extremely amazed at mediocre work so if your ever feeling down about your work just post your model at Renderosity and you will get feedback like "awsome" and "very cool" even if its just a sphere on a plane with HDRI lighting:D They are in the past with candles and stuff and I think most of the people over there have a wrong impression about the industry. Ask em to model a human from scratch like you would in a real job they will probably say something like " Hey I have this poser model that will work well"
LOL, If they expect to be labelled as a "modelor" than they have to actually learn to do just that...Model.

Ckerr812
09-02-2003, 04:29 PM
I am glad this issue is getting addressed now, and a backlash can form against this piece of trash software named poser.

It's just the first step in trying to create a "paint by numbers" animation software. It's like going to Wal mart to teach your kid how to paint by buying paint by numbers colouring books, he finishes the book, and what has he/she learned? How to follow directions, and crush creativity. Andy Warhol put it best, in his paintings on this issue.

Luckly paint by numbers died out almost completely because of such a backlash against it, soon poser will too. I personally would be ashamed to be apart of something like this program, but I guess the Daz employee's don't care about art, they just care about being superficial, money loving and trying to keep their jobs.

*rant off*

loked
09-02-2003, 09:35 PM
I must give it to you Ckerr812, that was very well put :thumbsup:

later:wavey:
loked

Ibox
09-03-2003, 03:20 AM
So you go and download a tut on how to model a human head... and you follow the instructions and voila, one human head... isn't that pretty much the same as painting by numbers?

Then there are the personal customized parts libraries that many of us keep... I mean, why reinvent the damn wheel each time eh... so I starts out with a prebuilt part for this or that... even though I made the original parts/custom prim's, I use them over again in different models eh... so I suppose I am a self built Poser?

Where ever do you draw the lines eh? I draw them at... what I have built is mine to use whenever for what ever eh... and from there, it really doesn't matter the app I use to rig em, or whatever eh... tools are just that... tools... period...

and clip art or models etc made by others are just that eh... not yours...

So dig in and learn to build your own is a cool thing

and the rest is simply imagination, work, and fini :D Oh, and a ton of fun eh :D

Pretty simple to understand really... don't know what all the fuss is all about... like who f*cking cares? You know who you are, or should anyways... too funny

gmask
09-03-2003, 03:31 AM
>>So you go and download a tut on how to model a human head... and you follow the instructions and voila, one human head... isn't that pretty much the same as painting by numbers?

That would be the case if the tutorial simples give you coordinates to place points.

>>>Then there are the personal customized parts libraries that many of us keep... I mean, why reinvent the damn wheel each time eh... so I starts out with a prebuilt part for this or that... even though I made the original parts/custom prim's, I use them over again in different models eh... so I suppose I am a self built Poser?

The difference being that you made the creative decisions in the first place when you modelled the pieces. Poser takes that part of the process away from and replaces it with a generic decision about beauty.


>>>and clip art or models etc made by others are just that eh... not yours...

This is true and for comemrcial work you will at some point have to work with such materials and wether or not you use them in your art is fine but in both cases do it legally... give credit when it is due and be honest.

>>>Pretty simple to understand really... don't know what all the fuss is all about... like who f*cking cares? You know who you are, or should anyways... too funny

Taking a flippant attitude about it isn't helpful in the least. Maybe Poser doesn't deserve the rap that it gets but it also pains me to see visual arts be reduced to a cut and paste formula...Pictur eor well know hotchick+paintover=art .. not very likely IMO wether the model came from Poser or from a picture in a magazine that low brow interpretation of art is annoying. I guess it's no surprise since the music industry has been this way for awhile now...and people wonder why the music industry is filled with scumbags, wannabes and talentless hacks who at best can only put maybe two good cuts on an album.

I think the value of art is something to take very seriously.. and professionally I need to know what somebody is capable of doing with real construction tools not with stock model programs.. I can get anybody to do that.

Ibox
09-03-2003, 03:42 AM
hey man, instead of reading part per part and answering as such, why not read the whole and then answer... you might lead yourself to agreeing a bit more to the overall post rather than becoming know it all to pieces you wish to contrive to put my post your way eh... just an observation ;)

Basically I am saying one is to learn to create for one's self, use whatever app for various tasks, and... that one really knows if they are a "Poser" or an artist eh...

as for the flippant attitude part of this, get a grip man, I was but only replying a post eh... chill

gmask
09-03-2003, 03:50 AM
>>as for the flippant attitude part of this, get a grip man, I was but only replying a post eh... chill

I was only responding to the argumentative nature or your response.. it's not personal mind you :thumbsup:

I suppose Poser has other uses besids as a dispenser of stock models.. my main concern with it is that as well known as it seems... when somebody needs a stock model they reach for Poser. In that regard it's a bargain because you can get alot of models out of it for the cost but by the volume usage they lack any variance.


My criticism of it is that because of it's pervasiveness that it would seem that many users produce somewhat uninspired and similair works from it. I am particularily sick of the production the hotchick images from it.

eYadNesS
09-03-2003, 03:53 AM
I think poser it just for beginners and for the web desingers, why?

It's good for the beginners just for learning, learning human shape and some poses and it's good to make the pose in poser and draw it by hand (for drawers).

And for web designers, because they want the character in less time (if they want to make a website for a client)...

But the heck start here :D ... when the beginners addicted poser, they will not leave it when they became in a good level on it :buttrock: ...and this will destroy their brain in creation!!!!

Finally I think we all should leave poser!!!

spakman
09-03-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by gmask
criticism of it is that because of it's pervasiveness that it would seem that many users produce somewhat uninspired and similair works from it. I am particularily sick of the production the hotchick images from it.

This is why you've been uppity?? What about all the 3D DangerGirl sightings that have been popping up all over the place? Should we lynch J Scott Campbell? :rolleyes:

gmask
09-03-2003, 07:33 PM
>>This is why you've been uppity?? What about all the 3D DangerGirl sightings that have been popping up all over the place? Should we lynch J Scott Campbell?

I've never heard of Dangergirl until now.. and from what I can tell she is not based on a Poser model.

She is aptly described on planetquake as:

"This latest incarnation of Danger Girl is unmistakable with the mythic proportions of every adolescent boys' (and some girls') soggy dreams."

Maybe we should have a softcore porn forum..

doug_
09-25-2003, 11:02 AM
gmask, thought i'd throw my 2 cents in here, 3 years ago i found poser and bryce, within 9 months of that i wanted more and found a mentor who showed me MAX, since then all i've used poser for is quick testing of skin shader setups, not for texturing mind, just the setup of the shader, personally i used it as a stepping stone, something that opened up my eyes to what was out there. However, as for the passing off of models as your own, that whole fiasco made me embarressed to have used it. So i see poser as ok for people who want the 3d look in 2d images if thats all they want to learn, but im in it for the animation and you just can't get to the right level in it ( in my opinion anyway)

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