General Lightwave Queries

[leigh]

Also, I've been doing some research on the Pros & Cons of LW. One thing that struck me was the fact that once something is modeled there is really no way of going back to modify it. Is this true? Any other comments welcome.

LOL where did you hear that? :P
Of course you can go back and edit your model - the only catch is that the rendering part of the program and the modelling part are seperate. They are two seperate applications. So you have to close down Layout and open Modeler, and then you work on your model. Some people find this inconvenient. I personally LOVE it. It really comes down to personal workflow here.

Can't really comment on DFX unforunately, since I've never used it :)

[Signal2Noise]

Thanks, Leigh. I'm going to have to thumb through my magazines to find that statement. I either read it in a mag like 3D World or some review on-line. Then again, I could have dreamt the whole thing:surprised That's why I asked if this was true because I found it to be odd.

If I recall correctly (and if it wasn't a dream), objects don't have a history or levels of undo so therefore once completed objects couldn't be modified later. If this is not the case then I need not worry.

[Maxx]

No, modeler doesn't have a history, which some people find rather irritating. Having actually never used an app with a history stack, maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but it hasn't really been that big a deal for me personally.

Modeler does, however, have undos limited only by the system's physical memory and the user-definable setting. However, it clears when the object is closed.

Leigh's right, tho'. It really does come down to workflow preferences. I, personally, love the fact that LW is split into two separate apps - it allows me to concentrate fully on either modeling or surfacing, lighting and rendering (don't do too much animation, unfortunately!) Both apps have personal discovery editions, or whatever they're called, so best bet would be to get hold of both and try them out. Also, LW[8] is on it's way - could be a while, but it's been announced, anyway - so keep an eye out here for updates.

Good luck in your decision!

[richcz3]

Signal to Noise

As for unmodifiable models...
Maybe someone was talking about a Nurb model being frozen into a poly mesh (ctrl-D). Yes, you CAN NOT unfreeze a frozen nurb model once it is saved. That was a shortcoming of Lightwave, but it isn't that way anymore.
Nurb models can be rendered in Lightwave just as a mesh model can. That could be where the mix-up came from.

Yes, I bought the Lightwave 8 Upgrade and recieved my DFX+ the other day.
For starters, I had never heard og DFX+ before this deal was anounced, so I was a little unsure of going for it. After spending some time with the DVD tutorials, it looks like a solid program with a pretty straight forward work flow.



richcz3

[Mattoo]

I have been plagued in my working life with apps that have a history feature for modelling. Maya so far is the most stable of the lot (as it frequently causes crashes and slow downs in the other app) but I don't really find myself using it much - and most of the people I work with who don't know any better don't really make use of it much anyway.

Trust me, the history is the last thing you'll miss. More likely the lack of edges and no node based stuff is gonna freak you out.

[aurora]

Other then the major differences in the workflow I agree with Mattoo. History is OK but once I get going history is more a pain in the butt then anything else for me personally. I miss edge control when it comes to modeling more then anything else. And if you are coming from Maya you will be totally stoked once you really start seeing the power of LW's modeler. In fact I bet unless you have no other choice after modeling in LW you will never want to play with subd's in Maya again!!!

[Nemoid]

Signal to noise. ok, modeler have not history, but for most task, you just can save different steps of your model name.lwo 01, 02, etc
so you can choose different ways to complete your model, or correct it.

history requires a great amount of memory and slows programs usually, so I find this is a good method.

I think history is required when you have to do animation with it, e.g. you want to animate modelling, and changing the shape of objects in animation.
there are several methods to do this in Lw, not using history though, even if I think sometimes history could help in this task.:)

cheers

[VirtualFM]

Originally posted by Leigh
...the only catch is that the rendering part of the program and the modelling part are seperate. They are two seperate applications. So you have to close down Layout and open Modeler, and then you work on your model. Some people find this inconvenient.

That is not entirely true, Leigh...

You don't HAVE to close Layout and Open Modeler. If you are using the Hub, a small application that enables communication between Layout and Modeler, you have your scene in Layout, choose the object you want to modify, hit F12 and it goes to Modeler, where you can edit it (or if you already have Modeler opened or in some strange cases the model doesn't go directly to Modeler but you can choose it from a pull-down menu with all the objects loaded into the scene).

Then you modify the object and when you switch back to Layout (ALT-TAB or using the Windows bar (or in Mac the Dock or whatever it is there)) the object is automatically updated.

Anyway, what people mean when they say 'you can-t edit' is that after starting a object like a Box with 2 segments and done 200 bevels to it, you can't go back and modify the box to have 4 segments instead. (no stack). But you can add geometry in other ways, edit points and polys and remove and kill and bevel and smooth shift and whatever and modify your object completely... and if you do this on a base object with 200 Morph targets, all the morph targets will be changed acordingly. and, in my opinion, that is better than any stack!

[pixelranger]

Actually, LW is by far the most intuitive modelling application I've seen, and it is one of the best when it comes to modifying your mesh later.
Like richcz3 said, in earlier versions you had to "freeze" your subD models before bringing them into Layout, but that's not the case anymore.

Plus, you have the extremely nice ability to modify an object which contains morphs without the modifications (adding geometry and such) screwing up your morphs.

You can, if you want to, make a mouth, make all the morphs for it, test the deformations/movement in layout, and then go back and build the rest of the face. And your morphs for your mouth are still intact. No need to worry about point orders.

[leigh]

Originally posted by VirtualFM
That is not entirely true, Leigh...

You don't HAVE to close Layout and Open Modeler. If you are using the Hub, a small application that enables communication between Layout and Modeler, you have your scene in Layout, choose the object you want to modify, hit F12 and it goes to Modeler, where you can edit it (or if you already have Modeler opened or in some strange cases the model doesn't go directly to Modeler but you can choose it from a pull-down menu with all the objects loaded into the scene).

Yeah I know all that :) I am just not 100% happy with the functionality of the Hub so I tend to have only one app open at a time. You often end up with empty layers in Layout or strangeness with images if you work simultaneously between Modeler and Layout so I just personally prefer to stick to one at a time.

The main point I was making was that a lot of people don't like their modelling and animating split up :)

[richcz3]

Yes, Leigh has a point there.
Funny stuff happens when you are dealing with multilayered objects. At least 10 layers or more.
When you change layer orders or add layers to your object, the Current Item selector can show a number of innacurate layers when selected. My guess is they are not refreshing to the current state of an object so it makes new ones.
If you change textures within layers you may find editing them in Modeler does not update in Layout as it should. Again this is when dealing with multilayered objects.

For the most part the Hub is on the right track. You edit in Modeler and it dynamicaly updates in Layout.


richcz3

[Facial Deluxe]

Originally posted by Leigh
Yeah I know all that :) I am just not 100% happy with the functionality of the Hub so I tend to have only one app open at a time. You often end up with empty layers in Layout or strangeness with images if you work simultaneously between Modeler and Layout so I just personally prefer to stick to one at a time.

The main point I was making was that a lot of people don't like their modelling and animating split up :)

I mostly always work with both Modeler & Layout open.
I found it very easy for updating work.
The few glintches still existing with the Hub will hoppefully be stabilized in next versions.
I really hope NT doesn't forget to think of the hub, this one is an angular stone in LW architecture. If they see 'big" we could, why not, have a hub that can manage history (for growing (extruded) objects and such...) and many other things...

[Signal2Noise]

Thanks for all the comments folks!:thumbsup:

I think I will be ponying up some chump change for LW after all.

One more question of which I also posted on Newtek's Discussion Board:

I sent an email in to Newtek's Customer Service yesterday but no response so far. Thought I'd try my luck here as well.

Has anyone from Canada been able to order LW from the Newtek on-line store? Every time I try to advance forward from the first order screen it kicks me back saying to select another shipping carrier. There are only two listed and both are UPS. I can't pick another! I'd rather order through the site because the local reseller in my area says he can't get the LW & DFX bundle deal anymore.

TIA.

[Psyhke]

An option is to call Newtek at 1-800-TOASTER. It seems to be most people's experience that you can get answers much faster by calling rather than waiting for e-mail corrospondence from Newtek.

[Signal2Noise]

Yes, methinks I shall be phoning them.:thumbsup:

[EDIT] Just visited the Keyframe mag site and if I order the LW bundle through them I get a two year subscription to the mag for free! I'm going that route to order!

[VirtualFM]

Originally posted by Leigh
Yeah I know all that :) I am just not 100% happy with the functionality of the Hub so I tend to have only one app open at a time. You often end up with empty layers in Layout or strangeness with images if you work simultaneously between Modeler and Layout so I just personally prefer to stick to one at a time.

I know you know! :D But the way you stated it it looked like it was the only option and that would be a drawback. Since the person who asked didn-t know anything about LW he might get the wrong idea.

I know the Hub has some quirks, but after some care and being sure that the configs are the same everywhers and the content directory as well I didn-t have any problems. The empty layers and extra layer when you don-t want them are a nuisance sometimes, but they are pretty easy to get rid of them.

Anyway, I have two shortcuts for LW&Modeler opening, one with the Hub and one without it. When I am constructins a object form scratch I don-t use the Hub, when I am in the stage of working in a scene and modifying objects, then the Hub is a Godsend.

[proton]

Let me know if I can answer any questions about LightWave.....I hope that you join teh LW family and enjoy using it as much as I do!

williamv@newtek.com

[Signal2Noise]

Thanks Proton! Congrats by the way for your inclusion in Keyframe- this is actually how I got to find out about the deal with buying LW through them.

I've been in contact with DMG Publishing and we're working out the details on getting the bundle shipped to Canada. Looks "like all systems go!" :)

[proton]

Congrats!

Keep me updated on your purchace and your progress with LW!

[Signal2Noise]

Thanks to the great assistance of Alice & DMG Publishing I have just placed my order in for LW incl. DFX & free 2 year Keyframe mag subscription!!!! Hopefully within several weeks I should be opening the package:drool:

Out of curiosity, when [8] is released will you all be simply downloading the upgrade or ponying up some chump change for a disc copy w/ manuals? I was told to get the disc version of the 'free' [8] to recent [7.5] purchasers it would be an additional $99 US. I think that's reasonable rather than downloading it and remembering to save it somewhere for back-up sake.:shrug:

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