Multi-threading

[Vizfizz]

Reuben is right...but for those who do not know, EIAS is not multithreaded...however it should be pointed out that multiple instances of Camera can be utilized when rendering animation through Renderama. Not an ideal situation by any means, but you can have 8 renders going on at once.

[juanxer]

Multithreading IS REALLY HARD! :)

I think someone said that, given the way Camera works, the current scheme of multiple Cameras is more efficient than a multithreaded Camera could ever be. I think one could compare this to After Effects: AE launches several separate instances of its render engine to do multiple frames at once, instead of having a multithreaded renderer (although perhaps it is threaded for intraframe multiprocessing).

What EIAS would lack is the way AE does its thing so transparently (and so inflexibly unless one uses scripts to control background tasks, number of active instances and so, mind you): things such as not having to worry about syncing shaders and sockets folders' content, setting Slaves' IPs, being able to set previews to striping, etc.

One thing a multithreaded Camera probably wouldn't let me do is launch more threads than the hardware allows. I usually launch a couple more Cameras than available cores to get some marginal benefits.

[Vizfizz]

Yes.. a little more refinement of the existing system would be nice. Its acceptable for animation rendering, but not so great for those who want to render high rez stills. Multithreading is important.. but not as important as improving animation tools IMO. Camera can at least hold its own...Animator on the other hand.... well I'm a broken record there.

[ediris]

Listen guys,
Multithread is modern and every 3d app should have one, EIAS doesnt but we still get the speed that we always dreamed that x or y app had.
Having said that i second Brian and i will give a big hog to the 64 bit update of EIAS. With all the lack of resources EITG had in the past they are able to pull it off. :applause:
Will that mean that every instance of Camera one can assigned whatever RAM we have on the machine?
Edgard

[juanxer]

Will that mean that every instance of Camera one can assigned whatever RAM we have on the machine?
Yes, 64bit would allow Camera to break through its current 2-3GB RAM ceiling.

[Reuben5150]

IMO the main advantage of a multi-threaded camera would be much, much faster preview snapshots, this is something renderama cannot help with, it would also open the door to interactive rendering, sure, previews could be speeded up with such features as undersampling, but this would be side-stepping the issue yet again.

When working on a project most of my time is spent previewing, there is so much potential here for time-cost saving and i know there are others including Paul.S who feel exactly the same way about this.

I honestly feel that EIAS will become obsolete if things contiue the way they are, further fragmentation of the company and even slower development.

Part of the reason i brought this up was the cinebench results of the intel 3.2ghz i7 chip, (you can google this) after running the test on my own system i realized how much things have come on, i'd really like an i7 rig, but sadly for me, EIAS does not fit in with this idea.

Reuben

[Vizfizz]

Reuben,

I really think the Igors and Tomas will have to pull things together otherwise this "management change" will be the program's last breath. They have a great opportunity here for themselves and they can invest more of their energies into the program because it means direct income for them. The more they put into it...the more they can benefit. Its a totally different dynamic for them now.

The Igors aren't really known for the ability to "work the room"...so Tomas has his hands full. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. My guess it will be big. The Igors can infuse Animator with a lot of missing technologies through their plugins and that combined with 64bit Camera could be a hit.

[Reuben5150]

Yes Brian i agree.

You know, the Igors are really pretty good, we should think positive i know, sometimes its easy to loose faith.

[Reuben5150]

Listen guys,
Multithread is modern and every 3d app should have one, EIAS doesnt but we still get the speed that we always dreamed that x or y app had.


I like your wording Edgard :), yes it is true thatEI still has one of the fastest renderers, but think what it is and what it could be.

[Vizfizz]

Yes Brian i agree.

You know, the Igors are really pretty good, we should think positive i know, sometimes its easy to loose faith.

I've had my rough patch with them, but I'm over it. Its time to move on and pull together for the sake of the community and the application.

[dwu67]

Reuben,

The Igors aren't really known for the ability to "work the room"...so Tomas has his hands full. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. My guess it will be big. The Igors can infuse Animator with a lot of missing technologies through their plugins and that combined with 64bit Camera could be a hit.

Hi, when you say 64bit Camera, I would assume Animator would be 64bit as well, so as to open and manipulate the huge dataset.

[Vizfizz]

64 bit Animator would be nice too... but I don't see that anytime soon.

[AVTPro]

Hi, when you say 64bit Camera, I would assume Animator would be 64bit as well, so as to open and manipulate the huge dataset.


When he says huge, he means like HUGE!!! Dataset are running bigger these days, EI has to step to keep up. Really if EI does got 64bit, we can call it a day.

[ediris]

64 bit Animator would be nice too... but I don't see that anytime soon.
Wow you dont see Animator being 64 bit, what makes you think of that?
Sorry but do you have any facts?
Edgard

[Vizfizz]

There's no point taking the existing Animator to 64bit unless it includes a complete rewrite of its infrastructure. Particularly, that would mean integrating the capability to manipulate animation down to the vertex level rather than just the object level as it is now. That alone is going to be a major overhaul right there.

[juanxer]

I think there is an inmediate programming obstacle for Animator to be ported to 64bit, Mac-wise: all 64bit Mac apps must be Cocoa-based if they are to sport a graphic User Interface. That means a major rewrite of the framework code Animator is based on. As Camera's user interface is so minimal, my guess is that creating a Cocoa front-end for its non-Cocoa 64bit core wouldn't be that difficult. Not so with Animator.

Probably, long term, they'll have to recreate EIAS' framework on the one Tesla is to be based on (Nokia's Qt (http://qt.nokia.com/), a cross-platform one that automatically handles OS X' 64bit specifics).

[dwu67]

But if animator is 32bit and can only handle millions of polygons, what is the use of 64bit Camera? Just so we can turn have lots of photon casting rays, high shadow density, lots of transparent surfaces?

[ediris]

But if animator is 32bit and can only handle millions of polygons, what is the use of 64bit Camera? Just so we can turn have lots of photon casting rays, high shadow density, lots of transparent surfaces?
I see it very important to have Animator handle a lot more of polys so it will have a better redraw and faster previews, imagine having an instance plug in for example.
Edgard

[halfworld]

About multi-threading, the current implementation is faster then running one multi-threaded Camera would be, but this isn't a reason not to multi-thread (see below).

Only Camera would be multi-threaded (in the same way that Maya's core isn't multi-threaded, but the renderers are).

As far as 64bit EIAS goes, only Camera would be made 64bit, to allow the rendering of millions of polygons with GI/Photons/Caustics and whatever new raytracing features come about.

Currently, a 64bit Animator would only allow for loading scenes that require more then 2 gigs of ram simply to open, and in using EIAS for 9 years, that has only happened to me once on an architectural project that required highly detailed houses/trees/cars/landscape over a site nearly 3 square miles in size.

Multi-threading Camera is recognised to be a priority, simply because it will give faster previews (as Reuben said), and because it would make working over networks less of a drama.

Ian

[dwu67]

Currently, a 64bit Animator would only allow for loading scenes that require more then 2 gigs of ram simply to open, and in using EIAS for 9 years, that has only happened to me once on an architectural project that required highly detailed houses/trees/cars/landscape over a site nearly 3 square miles in size.

Multi-threading Camera is recognised to be a priority, simply because it will give faster previews (as Reuben said), and because it would make working over networks less of a drama.

Ian
Multi-threading Camera would be great. I remember few years ago many people are thinking why have multiple processors on a computer, just make the CPU run at a higher MHz...

But handling large data sets would be nice also. For 3 years in a row, we get these large CAD models of cars plus hundreds of parts created in 64bit maya that needs to be rendered and each time we say maybe next year we can render them in EI. We used v-ray for the last 2 years and this time we are using 64bit modo on the PC.

After learning modo recently, which is great, I realized EI still has many strengths, and v8 has been running more stable than ever, even with lots of polys. I hope the Igors and Thomas has a clear and long term vision/road map that will bring EI into the next generation.

-David

[ediris]

About multi-threading, the current implementation is faster then running one multi-threaded Camera would be, but this isn't a reason not to multi-thread (see below).

Only Camera would be multi-threaded (in the same way that Maya's core isn't multi-threaded, but the renderers are).

As far as 64bit EIAS goes, only Camera would be made 64bit, to allow the rendering of millions of polygons with GI/Photons/Caustics and whatever new raytracing features come about.

Currently, a 64bit Animator would only allow for loading scenes that require more then 2 gigs of ram simply to open, and in using EIAS for 9 years, that has only happened to me once on an architectural project that required highly detailed houses/trees/cars/landscape over a site nearly 3 square miles in size.

Multi-threading Camera is recognised to be a priority, simply because it will give faster previews (as Reuben said), and because it would make working over networks less of a drama.

Ian

More features to come into raytracer wow fantastic, i dont even know how to get those photons to RT but thanks to Atlantis i know a bit more.
Cant wait for 64 bit Camera!!

I think we do have one of the best caustics out there.
One thing that comes to mind is how the 3rd party plug ins will see or if is even an issue for them?

Thanks,
Edgard

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.