CINEMA 4D 11.528 free update

[THX1311]

Wow impressive list of enhancements

Good Show Maxon!:thumbsup:

[DuttyFoot]

wow, all those updates at no cost. i don't use cinema 4d buts really cool, i wonder if others will follow this example.

[JCAddy]

Looks like a great update. Just a heads up, but the link is broken at the top of the page.

[ThirdEye]

Looks like a great update. Just a heads up, but the link is broken at the top of the page.

Thank you, my mistake, fixed.

[Andy1010]

wow, all those updates at no cost. i don't use cinema 4d buts really cool, i wonder if others will follow this example.


Oh it cost a pretty penny to upgrade to 11.5. There was a lot of grumbling, so I would hardly call it free. Maxon charged more than Autodesk subscription last time around.

Good stuff Maxon!

[cresshead]

Oh it cost a pretty penny to upgrade to 11.5. There was a lot of grumbling, so I would hardly call it free. Maxon charged more than Autodesk subscription last time around.

Good stuff Maxon!

maxon will need to ship a free version of after effects or fusion come siggy 2010 seeing as the 3d competition all appear to be moving towards bundlin a compositor thesedays.

also maxon's cinema4d [fullly capable version] is now THE most expensive 3d app except houdini...gonna be hard sell in this ecconomic climate.

[THX1311]

...gonna be hard sell in this ecconomic climate.

Not to Companies that are busy with work:cool:
The cost of C4D Studio can be offset with one contract
trust me.


Cheers

[imashination]

maxon will need to ship a free version of after effects or fusion come siggy 2010 seeing as the 3d competition all appear to be moving towards bundlin a compositor thesedays.

When AD did that they got ripped a new hole by people complaining they didnt want it. Not really a great route to follow?

also maxon's cinema4d [fullly capable version] is now THE most expensive 3d app except houdini...gonna be hard sell in this ecconomic climate.

"This ecconomic climate" is a phrase used by politicians and people that want to blame someone else.

[grrinc]

Not to Companies that are busy with work:cool:
The cost of C4D Studio can be offset with one contract
trust me.


Cheers

For me it would be a principle issue. C4D is still lagging in many areas. I would be wanting to know what extra I get for my cash compared to others - and at the moment, it doesnt look great.

[cresshead]

"This ecconomic climate" is a phrase used by politicians and people that want to blame someone else.

it's actually used by people trying to get the best bang for their buck, currently cinema is a nice app but is waay over priced both at rrp and subs per year when you compare it to others around except houdini and cinema is no houdini for sure.

when a cinema4d rep called this year it was more expensive than 3dsmax or maya to buy and the subs were more too and wanted a minimum 2 year contract as you bought it...i'm not even gonnna list what's missing.

for me cinema is a nice app but it's just positoned far too high at it's current pricing and the subs is just plain silly, i'd say it compares well up against modo and should really be somewhere near that pricing in a sub $2000 area and not above maya, softimage or max.

still 'they know best' but for me it's a no brainer...waay too expensive for what you don't get.

[THX1311]

for me cinema is a nice app but it's just positoned far too high at it's current pricing and the subs is just plain silly, i'd say it compares well up against modo and should really be somewhere near that pricing
.

Actually we have MODO 401 as well
its Awesome for modeling
but Cant Compare to C4D For Animation though.

[NicolasJordan]

maxon will need to ship a free version of after effects or fusion come siggy 2010 seeing as the 3d competition all appear to be moving towards bundlin a compositor thesedays.

That calls for yet another module. :)

[cresshead]

Actually we have MODO 401 as well
its Awesome for modeling
but Cant Compare to C4D For Animation though.

if cinema4d ever get's a proper price point i'm really up for having a good long look at moving to it, my motivation would be that the price came down to below $2000 that's £1,193 so that it sat above modo and ligtwave core which i think would be a pretty fair assesment of cinema's capabilities and market/studio/college/job penertration but well below 3dsmax, maya and xsi also subs need to be much cheaper than my current subs on 3dsmax.

cinema looks nice, it just needs to get real on it's price structure.

[ThirdEye]

cinema looks nice, it just needs to get real on it's price structure.

No offense, but you clearly have no idea about how well the product is selling. If the price is high it's because they have no need to set it lower, even in a global recession moment like this one.

[JookBoxer]

I haven't used cinema in a few years.

I was wondering. How is mocca now? Are the character tools pretty solid. Cause I remember using ik expressions and mocca and sometimes undo would not work. Or in some cases the rig would gradually destroy itself overtime. And when I built in a lot of things to compensate for these areas it made the rig very very slow to animate.

Also, how expandable is it? I use maya even though I don't like it. I do like being able to build tools in maya for a particular project. Like on one project I needed to rig 18 different characters. They all needed to be rigged in a very particular manner and some of the characters still needed some very precise controls for certain situations and being able to build our own tools with mel really saved us a lot of time. Although mel does have it's issues in certain situations. Most of the time it's been a big help. And being able to stay inside maya and not go to c++ is awesome.

Some of the problems I experienced with cinema years ago was with the tools behaving in an unpredictable manner. Sometimes bones would be flipping around with ik.

I like maxon and cinema. But I'm scared to try implementing it into my workflow. The price is also a bit high for my taste.

[ThirdEye]

I haven't used cinema in a few years.

I was wondering. How is mocca now? Are the character tools pretty solid. Cause I remember using ik expressions and mocca and sometimes undo would not work. Or in some cases the rig would gradually destroy itself overtime. And when I built in a lot of things to compensate for these areas it made the rig very very slow to animate.

Also, how expandable is it? I use maya even though I don't like it. I do like being able to build tools in maya for a particular project. Like on one project I needed to rig 18 different characters. They all needed to be rigged in a very particular manner and some of the characters still needed some very precise controls for certain situations and being able to build our own tools with mel really saved us a lot of time. Although mel does have it's issues in certain situations. Most of the time it's been a big help. And being able to stay inside maya and not go to c++ is awesome.

Some of the problems I experienced with cinema years ago was with the tools behaving in an unpredictable manner. Sometimes bones would be flipping around with ik.

I like maxon and cinema. But I'm scared to try implementing it into my workflow. The price is also a bit high for my taste.

I think the best thing you could do is download the free demo and try it out. That said animation in general and character animation in particular are probably the areas where Maxon spent most of the time in the past few years.

[imashination]

$2000 that's £1,193 so that it sat above modo and ligtwave core which i think would be a pretty fair assesment of cinema's capabilities and market/studio/college/job penertration

Hold on, youre basing how much they should sell it for based on the 'Duke Nukem Forever' of 3d packages? Personally I think they should price match Xdugef but that might be pushing it a bit far.

[grrinc]

No offense, but you clearly have no idea about how well the product is selling. If the price is high it's because they have no need to set it lower, even in a global recession moment like this one.

Not wishing to troll..... I use C4D myself.

But I would like to know.....

How many of these sales are for C4D as a 'whole 3d package'? More often then not, an app can be sold on the strength of one of its features. I remember a few guys here saying that their studios had 3dmax licences purely for the Afterburner plug in. I'm imagining C4D might shift a few more copies becasue of Mograph, Projection Man and Bodypaint.

It would be interesting to see how many sales were made on a like for like basis, rather than because of a few cool modules.

Again, not wishing to troll. Just a point I would like to explore for no other reason than boredom.

[ThirdEye]

Not wishing to troll..... I use C4D myself.

But I would like to know.....

How many of these sales are for C4D as a 'whole 3d package'? More often then not, an app can be sold on the strength of one of its features. I remember a few guys here saying that their studios had 3dmax licences purely for the Afterburner plug in. I'm imagining C4D might shift a few more copies becasue of Mograph, Projection Man and Bodypaint.

It would be interesting to see how many sales were made on a like for like basis, rather than because of a few cool modules.

Again, not wishing to troll. Just a point I would like to explore for no other reason than boredom.

No idea about that, and i doubt any 3D company would share that kind of info anyway.

[cresshead]

Hold on, youre basing how much they should sell it for based on the 'Duke Nukem Forever' of 3d packages? Personally I think they should price match Xdugef but that might be pushing it a bit far.

sorry didn't get your read between the lines reference...are you refering to maya, houdini, softimage, lightwave , 3dsmax or modo?

also what the heck is "Xdugef"...sounds like it may cause a skin rash!

i base my opinion of the competitions capabilities, market share, job share, i think it's quite reasonable to come to a conclusion that either all the autodesk pakages are too cheap or cinema is too high.

[ndog]

also what the heck is "Xdugef"...sounds like it may cause a skin rash!



Heh, you probably don't know what the three seashells are for either.:)

[imashination]

are you refering to maya, houdini, softimage, lightwave , 3dsmax or modo?

Lightwave core; my point being how could you possibly say with a straight face they should be price matching an incomplete piece of beta software with no release estimate, no feature list and absolutely no indication that it will be commercially viable?

i base my opinion of the competitions capabilities, market share, job share

Which for c4d is 50k - 100k seats, and for lw core is 0? This isnt a knock on lw core, its a knock on the idea that a successful company would base its pricing on the pre-order price for a piece of beta software from a company that ran its last 3d app into the ground through mismanagement.

To the other app you mention, Modo, whilst it is a great modeller (better than most, including c4d), it is missing the depth of features generally needed. 401 fills in a lot of gaps, but they're not going to go from a 3d modeller one year to a full animation, motion graphics, GI rendering, multipass generating, character animating, hair growing package in one release.

it's quite reasonable to come to a conclusion that either all the autodesk pakages are too cheap or cinema is too high

UK prices, including vat:
----
£ 710 C4D
£1,125 C4D for motion graphics
£2,365 C4D with the stuff most people actually want
£3,100 C4D with everything
£3,510 Max
£3,510 Maya 2010

Annual upgrade pricing inc vat:
----
£260 - £470 C4D
£605 Maya, mandatory, or your next upgrade will be an additional £2,440
£605 Max, mandatory, or your next upgrade will be an additional £2,440

What am I missing?

also what the heck is "Xdugef"

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=2170&page=9&pp=15

[cresshead]

Lightwave core; my point being how could you possibly say with a straight face they should be price matching an incomplete piece of beta software with no release estimate, no feature list and absolutely no indication that it will be commercially viable?

who mentioned lightwave core?..i listed 'lightwave' the emmy winning lightwave 9.6...you know the one which delivered the fantastic visual effects in BSG.



Which for c4d is 50k - 100k seats, and for lw core is 0? This isnt a knock on lw core, its a knock on the idea that a successful company would base its pricing on the pre-order price for a piece of beta software from a company that ran its last 3d app into the ground through mismanagement.

again...i'm not talking about lightwave core, it's not out, it's still being made!...so why are you listing it?

To the other app you mention, Modo, whilst it is a great modeller (better than most, including c4d), it is missing the depth of features generally needed. 401 fills in a lot of gaps, but they're not going to go from a 3d modeller one year to a full animation, motion graphics, GI rendering, multipass generating, character animating, hair growing package in one release.

my point was to place cinema above modo and lightwave [9.6] but below 3dsmax and maya...my point was to position cinema relative to autodesk products



UK prices, including vat:
----
£ 710 C4D
£1,125 C4D for motion graphics
£2,365 C4D with the stuff most people actually want
£3,100 C4D with everything
£3,510 Max
£3,510 Maya 2010

Annual upgrade pricing inc vat:
----
£260 - £470 C4D
£605 Maya, mandatory, or your next upgrade will be an additional £2,440
£605 Max, mandatory, or your next upgrade will be an additional £2,440

What am I missing?


your missing the proper pricing...last time i evalutaed cienam4d [this summer] is was THE most expesive 3d app other than houdini and you had to sign up for a minimum of 2 years support which worked out to cost more than 3dsmax support per year.

support being that the full version got upgraded as well as all the add on modules when they were released. my pricing was from the maxon rep on the phone to me.

so post siggy 2009 cinema4d pricing went down and their 2year min contract for subs was scrapped and also reduced to below that of 3dsmax?

just havin a look to see current pricing>>

http://www.bluegfx.com/estore_new.php?keyword=max&catego=0

http://www.maxonshop.com/uk/ps/code=291050&act=gpage

btw subs for 3dsmax ae £375 per year plus vat [15%] not £2440! or £605...
and you get image modeler and realviz for free with subs.
you can check for yourself on the site.

the £2440 you are refering to is the legacy upgrades from VERY old versions of 3dsmax such as before max 9...ie max3,4,5,6,7,8

upgrades and subs are different...upgrades you on't get free software or a @home and @work seat...you also don't get free training vids and .point releases

cinema also has a subscription model but makes you signup for a min 2 year contract when you buy cinema and that was £800 plus vat which is higher than 3dsmax subs and without free software and e learning support as an example.

let's be transparent on this..nice app and nice to see a free bugfix..i'll take a look at cinema4d again next summer and see if it's abit more competative then.

[RayDale]

I have been watching this thread with interest as C4D owner who is not totally happy about the price of the product but can appreciate that I am paying for some of the most bug free software out there. I am wondering do all the apps here get ragged to pieces when they announce a free update (it's an honest question)?

Cresshead, I am a bit confused here - are you stating that C4D is only less expensive that Houdini? Mash is correct in C4D being £3,100 compared to Max £3,500 inc vat.

You have also indicated that Autodesk products are the defacto standard 3D applications. I think you have to be careful about a sweeping term like this. Maybe they are in the VFX industries. But in my experience in the Motion Graphics and Graphic Design industries C4D is the standard due to its ease of use and stability (which are attributes people in those industries will gladly pay for). It is even competing well with Max in arch vis too. I think your perspective is a little off unless these are personal statements from your particular standpoint and YOUR particular needs - not as a general consensus? I think people sometimes forget that the VFX industry is actually not the largest component of the 3D industry.

[RayDale]

As a separate point...

Overall, this update was actually more than I was expecting. Normally, these sorts of minor point releases so soon after a major point release are bug fixes. However, there are actually quite a few interesting NEW features especially with MoDynamics.

It's a very good release.

[imashination]

who mentioned lightwave core?

You did: "my motivation would be that the price came down to below $2000 that's £1,193 so that it sat above modo and ligtwave core"

and you had to sign up for a minimum of 2 years support which worked out to cost more than 3dsmax support per year.

C4D has never required any support contract. You buy the software and its yours (youre also free to resell it without getting sued) The single initial purchase gives you all the .1 upgrades for that release and as much phone and email tech support as you like.

The optional c4d upgrades are between £250 and £500 a year on average, the mandatory AD upgrades are £431 a year; if you miss one and want to continue upgrading, you will be billed the £431 plus an additional 50% of the full software cost as a fine for having the audacity to skip an update.

btw subs for 3dsmax ae £375 per year plus vat [15%] not £2440! or £605...
Finding pricing info on AD products is like searching for the lost city of Atlantis. (although yes, I do agree its almost as hard working out c4d's module upgrades) Absolutely every page I found last night just ended in a "Call us for a quote!" link and no actual pricing. The closest I got (and I thought this was the bottom rung) was their bronze subscription for £525 (£604 inc vat). Once I hit bronze I didnt think there would be anything lower than that.

If I buy max with no sub, I skip a version and then 2012 comes out, how much is my upgrade? You are correct, that is their legacy upgrade price, the problem is all available info including AD's press release a few months back indicates if you ever miss an upgrade and another version gets released, you are now considered to be using a legacy version.

"Autodesk is introducing a new, streamlined upgrade pricing model on March 16, 2010. Under our current upgrade pricing model, the price of your upgrade depends on which product release you own. After March 15, 2010, your upgrade from any of the three previous software releases will cost 50 percent of the price of a new license, no matter which release you own."
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=7176852&siteID=123112

So, if you dont buy their subscription, upgrading from 2010 to 2011 next year will cost £1750 (!?)

and you get image modeler and realviz for free with subs.

I'd rather have any money I spend on a 3d app go into improving the 3D app, than used to buy out companies and bundle software I never wanted ;-)

[JamesMK]

I am wondering do all the apps here get ragged to pieces when they announce a free update (it's an honest question)?

Essentially, any announcement regarding anything at all gets it one way or another. Personally, I've always wondered how the developers of any application can stand this for any prolonged period of time, and why they don't just quit and start doing business in some entirely different, unrelated industry.

Then again, they probably just dodge the bullet by not spending any time reading public internet forums.

[Srek]

Essentially, any announcement regarding anything at all gets it one way or another. Personally, I've always wondered how the developers of any application can stand this for any prolonged period of time, and why they don't just quit and start doing business in some entirely different, unrelated industry.

Then again, they probably just dodge the bullet by not spending any time reading public internet forums.
Fact is that most often those people not satisfied with something voice their opinion. Thats absolutely ok imo and an important reminder for the developer/company in question to stay alert. However, those that are satisfied with it are usual busy creating stuff like this:
http://www.planetx.nl/
Which actualy makes up for quite a bit of venting ;)

Cheers
Björn

[JookBoxer]

also what the heck is "Xdugef"...sounds like it may cause a skin rash!



The official answer for.. What is xdugef.. It's an anagram of x-fudge - the soft and tasty vanilla flavoured treat of the X-Men.

[Nemoid]

Just my 2 cents. Even if Newtek included a price tag for CORE plus HardCORE membership, i'd not put their product in the list at least before its 1.0 release. BTW me hoping it will be a good product, even if it will be a start and a transition period for Lw users to arrive at a complete rewritten package after something like 2, 3 years, who knows.

C4D is a complete and full featured package yet.

I had a friend showing me a bit of this package and he says its pretty capable in many areas. It is like that for sure, even if i found it to be a bit similar to Maya into modelling approach (some release has passed so things are surely improved even in this field, and it is not a problem to model in c4d)

price tag could be high, but i seriously don't think Maxon is unaware of how the market is, and if they sell well enough at that price tag and with the module approach, be it.

Everyone is free to choose his preferred application.

Classifying apps basing it on price tag, is a bit pointless. There are many, many factors causing users to choose one app against one other. Work, personal preference, workflow, attitudes, what they want to do in CG... some artist could obtain perfect things in blender and be happy. Some other, could be forced to work in Maya orobtain no job

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