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tjnyc
08-18-2003, 02:25 PM
Hi,

When will the final release of Messiah:Animate 4 and Studio be out?

Thanks,

- T

Geco
08-18-2003, 03:36 PM
http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/cgi/shop.pl?SID=1061217542.32739&page=shop_main.htm

Julez4001
08-20-2003, 12:07 AM
Final release of Messiah:Animate came out last year and Studio will be out end of this month.

There is a new version of Animate coming out though...4.0

tjnyc
08-20-2003, 02:16 AM
Thanks, I made my order already, and I am suppose to get 4.0 next week.

chikega
09-18-2003, 03:16 AM
What's the word on the street these days?:D

rnb2
09-18-2003, 03:37 AM
If the street knows what the word is, it's keeping it to itself :)

Really, everything is spooky-quiet - I thought for sure we were going to hear something last weekend or so, but nothing so far. I'm guessing this week or next, but it really needs to be soon, or the chorus will start up again..............

tOd
09-18-2003, 03:37 PM
All this is strangely familiar. Missed deadlines? PMG? naw

;)

Qslugs
09-18-2003, 04:10 PM
Well all we're waiting for I believe is some last min stuff on the renderer. That's my guess at least. On the animation end, everything works stable and well.

Julez4001
09-18-2003, 04:30 PM
Not to mention that SuperBlender and AutoRig are suppose to an upgarde too but they just fine now, I believe if u order Animate, they seen you the upgrade for it. Studio renderer is being looked at and Fred Tepper is working on the manuals and the website.

Plus even if they missed deadlnes ..they always sweeting the deal with new stuff not promised ...autorig, metaeffectors, spherize are all undocumented stuff.

jamination
09-18-2003, 04:54 PM
what would happen to you if you missed a deadline? would that client use you again?

phil harbath
jamination

Julez4001
09-18-2003, 05:15 PM
Softimage XSI, lW and Messiah all missed their deadlines and still have users ..if you don't like it ..then don't use them..simple. If youa re advance user (like me) ..you have 80% of the new features they release last month.

Qslugs
09-18-2003, 05:16 PM
I guess one could alwalys ask for a refund if one were unhappy with the product or delayed lack thereof.

Geco
09-18-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by jamination
what would happen to you if you missed a deadline? would that client use you again?

phil harbath
jamination
probably no, if he can find a replacement.
i can't find a replacement for messiah:studio. http://geocities.com/kl_aktuell/temp/wink.txt

jamination
09-18-2003, 05:22 PM
then it looks like they got ya where they want you.

phil harbath

rnb2
09-18-2003, 06:24 PM
Nobody has anybody "where they want them" - being happy with what messiah has become, in spite of its very difficult development, does not make us suckers or dupes for pmG.

jamination
09-18-2003, 06:33 PM
ok

Qslugs
09-19-2003, 03:27 AM
I just have to ask.

Jamination, are you waiting for studio or something?

Julez4001
09-19-2003, 02:51 PM
Yep. LW still hasn't got to the level/sophistication of character development & animating. Can I animate in LW..yes. Which is better..Messiah. Why? the arrangement, speed and interaction of the tools among themsleves and the workflow.

Thats a big difference....
IF LW8 fits the bill..I'll drop messiah as my main character app but they have to do it first.

XSI was in linbo for 3 years and everyone b1tch and moan..some went to Maya and some stayed...everyone happy but technology & programming isn't simple and ppl take that for granted. PPMG is only 5 programmer team and it at least 1.57 was a solid app to begin with.

lmilton
09-19-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by jamination
then it looks like they got ya where they want you.

phil harbath

That would be true if we were trying to "stick it" to our customers. Fortunately, most of our users have come to know that having to wait doesn't mean that we're mistreating them. On the contrary, they know that we're hard at work taking care of the reported bugs & adding requested features. The amount of time it takes is just the nature of the beast.

In fact, we added a feature that I believe *you* requested: loading uv data from Wavefront obj. No one else out there asked for this, just you; but we saw the necessity for it.

Anyway, as you become more familiar with us, and as we're fully clear of this long core development, I believe you'll become more satisfied with the level of support & service that we provide.

Take care,

-lyle

jamination
09-20-2003, 12:34 AM
>In fact, we added a feature that I believe *you* requested: >loading uv data from Wavefront obj. No one else out there >asked for this, just you; but we saw the necessity for it.

it wasn't .obj files, it was max files i wanted to get the uv files from.

i wish i could rewrite my previous remarks, they were a little harsher then i intended. my point is that we all have to live with the consequences of deadlines. they are more important then any bonus stuff that is added on top of the original deal (i learned this one a long time ago with my clients). this next part might sound harsh but it is just an observation. i was involved with using vray close to when it first came out. it was quite fast and useable then, but lots of users and beta testing made the product even better. it seems like the present state of m:render is behind where it vray was then (1 1/2 years ago), without the advantage of lots of users pushing to make it better. it seems now m:render is going into its real beta phase, but mostly just for lightwave users.
i asked a while back when max's uv would be supported in m:render and your response was "that you didn't remember promising uv support" (or something to that affect). so if uvs from programs other than lightwave aren't supported, i assumed that it must have it's own system for applying material/uvs, but i don't believe that is true either. what i would like to know just how will i be able to render max files or max objects in m:render.

sorry for the previous post, this really has what's been on my mind since the m:studio rel9 has come out.

phil harbath
jamination

lmilton
09-20-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by jamination
>In fact, we added a feature that I believe *you* requested: >loading uv data from Wavefront obj. No one else out there >asked for this, just you; but we saw the necessity for it.

it wasn't .obj files, it was max files i wanted to get the uv files from.

i wish i could rewrite my previous remarks, they were a little harsher then i intended. my point is that we all have to live with the consequences of deadlines. they are more important then any bonus stuff that is added on top of the original deal (i learned this one a long time ago with my clients). this next part might sound harsh but it is just an observation. i was involved with using vray close to when it first came out. it was quite fast and useable then, but lots of users and beta testing made the product even better. it seems like the present state of m:render is behind where it vray was then (1 1/2 years ago), without the advantage of lots of users pushing to make it better. it seems now m:render is going into its real beta phase, but mostly just for lightwave users.
i asked a while back when max's uv would be supported in m:render and your response was "that you didn't remember promising uv support" (or something to that affect). so if uvs from programs other than lightwave aren't supported, i assumed that it must have it's own system for applying material/uvs, but i don't believe that is true either. what i would like to know just how will i be able to render max files or max objects in m:render.

sorry for the previous post, this really has what's been on my mind since the m:studio rel9 has come out.

phil harbath
jamination

Of course you're entitled to your opinions about the renderer. That's cool, and a debate on this will be fruitless. I will say, though, that there is a big difference between developing a renderer and developing a full animation/shading/rendering system complete with multiple APIs.

However, it's important for you to understand one important point about using messiah. messiah:studio is intended to be used as a standalone application. To the point, it is not designed to allow for rendering while being attached to a host application. The connection to other applications is intended for animation purposes only, and it does this job well for every app we support, not just Lightwave.

As far as the uv issue, it's true that we never promised uv support. It's important to keep this in context. You're asking if messiah will load UVs from the host application. messiah doesn't do this for *any* app. Not even Lightwave.

What messiah *does* do is read UV data from Lightwave objects when you load the object directly (not via a connection). I believe I talked about this in our original discussion, and I blieve I told you that the only option would be if you could convert your objects to the Lightwave format. If memory serves correctly, you said you were able to save out obj. Hense, the UV obj support.

-lyle

ps: I didn't take your original post as negative, I just thought it important to clarify a few points.

lmilton
09-20-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Julez4001
Yep. LW still hasn't got to the level/sophistication of character development & animating. Can I animate in LW..yes. Which is better..Messiah. Why? the arrangement, speed and interaction of the tools among themsleves and the workflow.

Thats a big difference....
IF LW8 fits the bill..I'll drop messiah as my main character app but they have to do it first.

XSI was in linbo for 3 years and everyone b1tch and moan..some went to Maya and some stayed...everyone happy but technology & programming isn't simple and ppl take that for granted. PPMG is only 5 programmer team and it at least 1.57 was a solid app to begin with.

I *wish* we were a 5 programmer team:)

Dan, Fori, & I are the core programmers. Ron just joined in the mix with AutoRig, Walker, and a few setup plugs.

-lyle

jamination
09-20-2003, 01:37 AM
>Of course you're entitled to your opinions about the renderer. >That's cool, and a debate on this will be fruitless. I will say, >though, that there is a big difference between developing a >renderer and developing a full animation/shading/rendering >system complete with multiple APIs.

>However, it's important for you to understand one important >point about using messiah. messiah:studio is intended to be >used as a standalone application. To the point, it is not >designed to allow for rendering while being attached to a host >application. The connection to other applications is intended for >animation purposes only, and it does this job well for every app >we support, not just Lightwave.

i'm fine with studio being a standalone application, but that being said, it seems necessary then that it would have some built in uv stuff, otherwise, having lightwave as well seems necessary.


phil harbath
jamination

rnb2
09-20-2003, 04:45 AM
Lyle,

Glad to hear that obj UVs have been added - I didn't speak up earlier because I hadn't had a chance to see what the implications were of needing lwo UVs on my current workflow. Having now done that, obj UVs will be very handy, since that's what ZBrush saves out for export. Not having to convert to LWO saves some headaches along the way, although I still foresee using Modeler for certain tasks, regardless.

BTW, I'm sure I'm not alone in trying not to jump to conclusions about your sudden re-appearance, both here and on the mailing list :)

Rick

lmilton
09-20-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by jamination
i'm fine with studio being a standalone application, but that being said, it seems necessary then that it would have some built in uv stuff, otherwise, having lightwave as well seems necessary.


phil harbath
jamination

Once again, remember to keep this all in context. When I say that we never promised UV support, I'm talking about via the host connection. This shouldn't be taken to mean that messiah won't have its own UVs at some point.

I know it's easy to believe that we favor LightWave over other apps, but with regards to the existing level of support, it's not the reality. When running messiah as a standalone app, it doesn't care where the objects come from as long as they're lwo, obj, 3ds, or dxf (all are widely supported formats). To my knowledge, only lwo & obj contain embedded UV data, and we now support both.

messiah doesn't load 3ds MAX objects because they don't exist, and it's impossible to parse the MAX file format. So, the only option is for you to save your MAX data in a recognized format. If MAX had a "parsable" native object format, we'd do our best support it.

Lastly, I have no desire to start a debate on this, but this is an important point. You and others have made comparisons with supporting clients and providing software. After having been in the graphics/multimedia services biz for over 10 years, and after having been in the software development biz for almost as long, I can tell you from experience that the two don't compare.

In graphics, what you sell to your clients is original works for hire. The end result is the final product that must speak for itself. It must address the requirements *completely* or you don't get paid. And because the requirements are usually very short for any single job, you & your client know when you've hit the mark.

However, when you purchase 3D software (finalized or otherwise), you are not the only client, you are one in thousands. Each "client" has his/her specific set of requirements, all talking to you at the same time. We're talking about a *lot* of requirements, and there will be many more since some clients just assume that their specific features will be available. There will even be many requests from clients based on features they've seen in competing products. So, of course you need to adapt and make modifications/additions along the way, while keeping fresh & innovative. Because of this and the fact that the product is not a static image but a highly complex "living" tool, there are certain concessions that must be made with regards to those requirements and the time to develop them.

So, if you want a closer comparison, try to imagine that you have thousands of clients (some nice, some not) wanting a single image to meet their requirements, they're all talking to you while you're working on that image, you have to compete with ILM, Pixar, Sony, etc. with that image, and said image crashes occasionally when viewed... but only under a certain set of circumstances.

Have fun!;)

-lyle

ps: this is much longer than I intended... just started writing and didn't look back.

Panikos
09-23-2003, 01:27 AM
Lyle.

All your efforts are much much apreciated.
My HO is that the majority of users are expecting the final release.
But the promise of future features push this in time.
As long as the current state of the app is solid, I think you should release it as a non-advanced version but as a shipped product.
There is room for future additions later, or fixation of bugs.
I am sure that we all know that there is no perfect software.

Finally, I guess that the release version is just around the corner.
The release will cause coverage by magazines, forums, etc
Eventually you will be permanently put high on the rank of CG_Software industry, something that a lot of us users wish too.

:applause:

chikega
09-25-2003, 02:16 AM
Sooooo .... what's the word on the streets, fellas? :D

dfaris
09-25-2003, 02:45 AM
Yeah so what is the word? Are we gonna get 1.5 soon?
I'm ready to start playing.

Chewey
09-25-2003, 02:52 AM
Well, there's good news and there's bad news.

the good news is that the messiah is coming.

the bad news is that he's mad as hell.


:scream:

Julez4001
09-25-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by dfaris
Yeah so what is the word? Are we gonna get 1.5 soon?
I'm ready to start playing.

You can order it now and get Rev9b, its practically there.

dfaris
09-25-2003, 04:31 PM
Hey Julez4001

I already have studio and I'm really looking to get the fixed connection for C4D. Everything else works so far but I have not really given it the full once over.

Thats all

Julez4001
09-25-2003, 04:40 PM
The are talking about the cd connection on the yahoo group now,chime in andread the instructions.

dfaris
09-25-2003, 05:02 PM
Yeah I'm part of that yahoo thread about the connection.

The problem is that there are some known bugs that have been fixed and should be in the 1.5 release. Thats all I'm waiting for. I already know how to get it working with C4D I just was wondering when we can get the bugless connection.

tjnyc
09-25-2003, 05:22 PM
Amen to that!

lmilton
09-26-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by dfaris
Yeah I'm part of that yahoo thread about the connection.

The problem is that there are some known bugs that have been fixed and should be in the 1.5 release. Thats all I'm waiting for. I already know how to get it working with C4D I just was wondering when we can get the bugless connection.

If everything goes according to plan, we'd like to release the patch next week. If anything goes wrong with the plan, I'll post info.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

-lye

dfaris
09-26-2003, 11:13 PM
Well that is some good news. Thanks for taking the time to post that here. I look forward to the patch.

Panikos
09-27-2003, 12:23 AM
We have tha patience, faith and loyalty :rolleyes:

Chewey
10-04-2003, 01:59 PM
Probably in October...

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