Female figure WIP (Nudity)

[Deestrakt]

man, its awesome :eek:. really good modeling and deforming great. i'm impressed coz its hard enough to model realistic anatomy, but its even harder to get it deformed naturally.
i looked very carefully to see if anything was a problem in deformation, as u asked, and i saw nothing but a few details. since its hard to explain in english for me, i'll post images to describe what i mean. but its just little details.

[Deestrakt]

oki, here are the pics.

first, the area in your pic. the green dots are placed where i have the impression the deformation is a bit "off".
the yellow arrow points were its maybe a bit too "hollow".

[Deestrakt]

image didnt show

[Deestrakt]

now, 2 refpics, as comparison :

1

[Deestrakt]

and 2

but its just lil details, and i may see wrong coz of the angle.
as i said, your mesh is awesome, i'm very interested to see it continued ! keep us updated :)

[flyingP]

Hmmm see what you mean, and no disputing the reference, I can see this really is going to drive me nuts. Thanks for taking the time on this reply by the way that sort of critic really helps.

cheers.

[Corn Dog]

Her pits seem really deep. Pits as in arm pits... its not a typo.

[AdamT]

This is really good work flyingP. I don't think the current deformation is necessarily wrong, but it represents a much more muscular figure than the one in the images posted by Deestrakt. I do agree the pits are a little too deep though.

Building and skinning a properly deforming shoulder joint is definitely one of the biggest challenges in CG, IMO. As I understand it, many studios will use several different models and/or rigs to accomodate the extreme poses.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by AdamT
This is really good work flyingP. I don't think the current deformation is necessarily wrong, but it represents a much more muscular figure than the one in the images posted by Deestrakt. I do agree the pits are a little too deep though.

Building and skinning a properly deforming shoulder joint is definitely one of the biggest challenges in CG, IMO. As I understand it, many studios will use several different models and/or rigs to accomodate the extreme poses.

Yep, they are deep I'm working on an update, just could take a bit, got a few other things to do at the moment, and there are just a few points to move there. I think I should manage to get pretty close with this though, although yes shoulder joints really are a killer, that and backsides.

[flingster]

it think youre pretty close here buddy and i can see where the frustration would set in.
my thoughts are that the actual breasts seem a little low and more silicone looking (eg stuck on feel to them..to spherical). the first image top left relaxed is fine...but the one on the right with both arms stretched upwards i would expect more upwards pull on the sides of each breast and maybe more flattening spread. the breast deforming slightly more on the chest as a result of muscle stretch.
the influence is particularly marked when only one arm is raised..

all this said it is very impressive as it stands now.
keep up the work flyingp cos it will be worth it.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by flingster
it think youre pretty close here buddy and i can see where the frustration would set in.
my thoughts are that the actual breasts seem a little low and more silicone looking (eg stuck on feel to them..to spherical). the first image top left relaxed is fine...but the one on the right with both arms stretched upwards i would expect more upwards pull on the sides of each breast and maybe more flattening spread. the breast deforming slightly more on the chest as a result of muscle stretch.
the influence is particularly marked when only one arm is raised..

all this said it is very impressive as it stands now.
keep up the work flyingp cos it will be worth it.

Thanks for the reply flingster, to be honest I haven't really concentrated that much on the breasts so far and there is only a very rough rigging in this set up at the moment, I'm more concerned that the shoulder is deforming as well as it can before I get too far with the rest, no doubt there will be a need for the odd muscle bone here and there to get things working better, I'll certainly keep your suggestions in mind though.

cheers.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by flyingP
Thanks for the reply flingster, to be honest I haven't really concentrated that much on the breasts so far
Ah, more of an armpit man eh? :)

[flingster]

ok didn't realise this...makes sense.

AdamT : so when ya get home and the wife asks you "hi honey what did you do all day"...."oooh this and that...modelled a few armpits!!! heh heh.... its tough work if you can get it.:eek:

[JIII]

its entirely possible that the pit is not too deep just the area behind the pit is too built up. Its been too long since I really studied anatomy so I could not really tell you the name of this muscle.

Anyway the chick looks like her backis quite manly, almost no women have such a dominant back muscle showing when the raise their arms. anyway uber sweet keep up the great work.

[flyingP]

@ Adam & flingster, actually I work from home guys and my wife is also at home at the moment on holiday so I have to come up with some excuse when she's looking over my shoulder.

@ JIII, the guys were right, it was too deep and she probably looks a bit muscular because I am trying to concentrate (roughly) on the anatomy i.e. where the muscles are and how they should be working, tends to have the effect that they get a bit exagerated (like the breasts) might see what I can do about that later. There are a number of muscles in that area by the way, actually the whole blasted shoulder is one complicated mess of muscle.

Still working on an update, armpits really are not that easy it would seem.

Cheers

[bobtronic]

very nice (nette hingucker). Do you want to obtain
a Manga look ? Reminds me somehow on "Ghost in
the Shell". If the rest has the same quality than it
will be a great model. Not sure about the deformations.
Never came so long myself. But for sure the shoulder
joint is one of the most difficult areas.

keep on

Bob

[flyingP]

Originally posted by bobtronic
very nice (nette hingucker). Do you want to obtain
a Manga look ?
Bob

heh heh, Danke Bob. Manga look?... can't say it was planned at the moment.

Any way here is an update, and personally the more I look at it the more I feel flingster was right with the breasts, and I might just try setting up a muscle bone next out of interest to get them pulling roughly in the right direction, at the moment they are perhaps making the rest look a bit odd.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip2.jpg

Cheers

[bobtronic]

What I like to know is how many bones do you use
for the shoulder joint ? Do you use Claude Bonet for
weighting or several weightmaps ?

Bob

[JoelOtron]

Those shoulders and chest are beautiful.
The boobs, however look like they are attached to the body much lower than they should be. They have a much different look (didnt want to say "feel" :) ) to them in terms of accuracy then the chest and arms above them. But, that could just be a stylistic thing.

Also, the pecs should pull the breasts up with it iduring the arm raise.

[flyingP]

OK Bob, hope this answers the question with the bones. at the moment I am not using any vertex maps or Claud Bonnet just different weights on the bones (sorry not sure this would work in R6) the only thing I have done is set the bone function to 1/r^4 as I was mentioning in the thread over the weekend, due to that I will almost definately be needing vertex maps and Claude Bonet later on I think, will have to see as this develops.

Cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWipmesh.jpg

[flyingP]

Can see I am really going to have to do something about those breast tomorrow.

[JoelOtron]

Sorry--didnt read the post where you mentioned yo were still working on the breasts...

[That Adrian Guy]

you're very good!

The ribcage seems a bit narrow, unless the tiggle bitties are throwing me off.

I don't even know what claude bonnet bones are, that would be way too cool if they used pose morphs and the angle of the bone to tween between them.

[bobtronic]

Thanks for editor view flyingP. So you use the
"auto-skinning" ? No weight maps at all ? Cool.
But I see you have modeled with animating in mind.

Bob

[flyingP]

Originally posted by bobtronic
Thanks for editor view flyingP. So you use the
"auto-skinning" ? No weight maps at all ? Cool.
But I see you have modeled with animating in mind.

Bob

"auto-skinning" ? No weight maps at all ?:
no, Maxon just a great job on the bones for R8, I'm just slapping them in at the moment and changing their strengths when needed, bare in mind this may well not be in the final rigging I'm just using it to test the modelling as I go along.

Modeling for annimation:
that's the trick actually Bob if you can manage to get the polygons flowing properly around an object then the rigging is actually quite easy and the mesh has a somewhat more skin like quality when it stretches, just takes a bit of time and concentration (and a lot of frustration).

[flyingP]

OK here's an update, I've worked over the breasts, there is also a muscle bone working on the Petorials, although it's causing bit of a bulge at the top (sorry still no vertex maps), to honest I don't want to get to carried away with rigging this completely at the moment and I'll leave the fine tuning untill later, actually I imagine I'll rig that area with soft IK anyway.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip3.jpg

[JIII]

nice dude they still are not that fleshy and all but they do look very real, much better then the first post.

nice job dude top notch.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by JIII
nice dude they still are not that fleshy and all but they do look very real, much better then the first post.

nice job dude top notch.

Thanks JIII.
Actually personally I am starting to get the feeling I was a fool for starting this again, this is going way over my skill level, still I supose it's at least one way to learn (although I am running out of hair to pull out).

[JIII]

Hey don't talk like that your skills will never ever improve if you don't test yourself and it does look very nice, it just depends on the look you want.


dude you are doing a great job don't give up now. you almoost have it perfect. I mean dude its a really really good peice o work man. with a good texture this might be gallery material its uber sweet.

really dude this is a good peice don't go givin up.

I wanna see her animated ;) lol

[flyingP]

Originally posted by JIII
Hey don't talk like that your skills will never ever improve if you don't test yourself and it does look very nice, it just depends on the look you want.


dude you are doing a great job don't give up now. you almoost have it perfect. I mean dude its a really really good peice o work man. with a good texture this might be gallery material its uber sweet.

really dude this is a good peice don't go givin up.

I wanna see her animated ;) lol

No need to panic JIII, I fully intend to battle this thing to the end like I said earlier this is already my third attempt, I can't leave it simply "because" of the fact that it is so blasted dificult, I am doing this to learn.... doesn't make it any less frustrating though.

[flingster]

man i don't know what you are worrying about...that last pic is the best yet...its totally coming together...and you can totally pull this off!
good work...keep it up...:thumbsup:

[flyingP]

Thanks flingster, it's just not an easy mesh to edit, and at the moment I still have the feeling the breasts are a bit too low, I'm working on it though.

cheers

[flyingP]

OK here's an update.
I have now moved the breasts up, they still need a bit of work on the sides though, and I have started down her back.

Cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip4.jpg

[flingster]

can you post one with the arms relaxed?

[flyingP]

will have to get back to youn on that one flingster, I've just discovered something myself which I want to correct first

cheers

[flyingP]

Ok here we go, arms up arms down. I've moved the breasts around 'yet again', seems to have helped though and I managed to get rid of 2 poly rows as a bonus. Must slowly be time to move on though as (and I never thought I'd say this) I am getting sick of seeing them.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip5.jpg

cheers.

[Deestrakt]

really cool ! u have nice deformations now, and the arm pits looks perfect. like u said, u can move on to the rest now. looks like theres nothing left to worry about in this part. :thumbsup:

[ODoul]

I can really appreciate the difficulty of this since I've started modeling my first human head. Your doing a good job here. Keep it up! -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
I can really appreciate the difficulty of this since I've started modeling my first human head. Your doing a good job here. Keep it up! -- 3d_e

Many thanks 3d_e.
Funny actually, initially I never really understood the point of doing realistic human figures in 3D myself (hell there's enough real actors) untill I realiised just what a "damn" challenge it is, and you know I think after I have finally managed to get her finished I think I'll really need to get back to doing something stupid like my flying pig again.

Look foward to seeing the head by the way.

@Deestrakt, thanks, that's pretty much the way I'm seeing it too.

cheers folks.

[ODoul]

Well, I have part of it posted here. It's just the nose but I have other parts modeled. I need to add some detail to the eyes but they are coming together OK. The ears are what I'm struggling with right now. They are pretty hard things to model, that's for sure. So, do you have bones already on your figure? If not, how have you moved the arms like you have? -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

Look back on page 2 of this thread 3_de the explanation is there.
Hope it makes sense.

Cheers

[prayas]

damn thats really a bit frustrating to see how others get managed these problems so well. I modeled a human alien figure and was quiet satisfied until i saw your stuff here. One reason is of course that damn good rigging you made here.

Maybe after you finished some more parts of the figure you'll find the time to explain the rig and help other people getting such great results.

P..:

[flyingP]

Originally posted by prayas
Maybe after you finished some more parts of the figure you'll find the time to explain the rig and help other people getting such great results.

P..:

Gladly prayas although I am not very good with explanations, I have tried explaining to at least one friend and colleague here but I am still not quite sure if he completely understood what I am doing, he is going in similar directions though and who knows may even end up with better results, the only thing I can say at the moment is that it's not so much the rigging here as the "mesh" tha'ts important and it's a bit hard to explain, hell even I don't understand my wires when I look at them I just know they work. I will however give a bit of thought to a coherent explanation at some stage though.

Cheers

[ODoul]

OK, time for a totally immature comment. I like how you have given her breasts the bone. Ba dum dum, ching. OK, sorry, thanks, that's pretty cool. I've just ventured into bones and the like. This is really coming along nicely as I've already said. -- 3d_e

[prayas]

as you said you don't understand your wires? why not first post some wires and let us try to understand them?

P..:

[flyingP]

Originally posted by prayas
as you said you don't understand your wires? why not first post some wires and let us try to understand them?

P..:

Page 2 of this thread prayas, i'ts not much at the moment but it is a start.
cheers

[prayas]

Yep ok i've seen them on page two. may i ask for a bigger image?
Like to see how you managed some of the parts.

P..:

[flyingP]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this one prayas, but I was taking bit of a break from her Yesterday. I have updated the the wire view on page 2, not exactly bigger (I'd rather not blow my webspace at the moment) but with a side and back view and, with the bones removed so that the wire should be a bit easier to follow.

cheers.

[prayas]

Thats a better wire. really a dense mesh you produce there.
Like to see a finished character some day. This is also a good
help for a new character i started yesterday.

P..:

[flyingP]

Dense yes but then I am concentrating on a bit more detail and at the moment and I would rather have too many poly's as too few, there is also a good chance that I can remove the odd poly row later anway. On top of which I have just ordered a new computer which I hope will make life easy working with a higher poly count.

as to the a finished model (although not yet textured, and I am also still working on the facial rig) if you do a search and go right back to my first post here you should find one, not sure if all the images are still there, but enough. It was modelled along the same lines.

On top of which I am still working on this one, and hope to be able to post an update soon.


cheers

[flyingP]

Hahah, and I thought the shoulder was dificult, but then I was expecting the elbow to cause me problems (thanks to certain problems which I have tried covering in another thread here).

It is not proving easy getting a hard bend here, but it's at a point where I feel I can fix that later with a bit of fine tuning. Also hopefully the more I add to the mesh from the elbow down the more it should (with any luck) behave.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/elbow1.jpg

cheers

[bobtronic]

thats the point where different bone influences in a
bone chain would be quite handy. But I am sure you
will find a way. BTW she has more biceps than I :)
Hope you lost not all your hair over this project :)

Bob

[flyingP]

Originally posted by bobtronic
BTW she has more biceps than I :)
Hope you lost not all your hair over this project :)

Bob

true you wouldn't want to get into a fight with her, I'll tone her muscles down a bit later, and no haven't lost all my hair over this yet, although the rest is turning rapidly grey.

cheers

[ODoul]

I agree with bob on the bicep. The deformation of the elbow looks a little squirelly when in the bent position. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Looking really good P. -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
I agree with bob on the bicep. The deformation of the elbow looks a little squirelly when in the bent position. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Looking really good P. -- 3d_e


squirelly ???

actually I am getting it sorted "slowly" the bicep is not too much of a problem to adjust, getting the elbow to crease properly at the moment is, but it looks as though a bit of carefull bone placement could fix that.

cheers

[ODoul]

"squirelly"

Sorry, I should realize that not everyone understands the American lexicon. Noone can butcher the English language quite like an American.

Squirelly: Weird, wacky, strange.

;)

3d_e

[flyingP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
"squirelly"

Sorry, I should realize that not everyone understands the American lexicon. Noone can butcher the English language quite like an American.

Squirelly: Weird, wacky, strange.

;)

3d_e

Oh I don't know, Aussies are pretty creative with it as well, Squirelly was new to me though, although I suppose when you think about squirrels can be a bit strange, like why do they always wait until a car comes before they run over the road.

[flyingP]

This is getting closer I hope. I've had to push the points around quite a bit and use a perhaps slightly unorthodox setup for the rigging arond the elbow, but if it's working who cares.

cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/elbow2.jpg

[JIII]

hmm that biscep needs to be flatter when it is elongated. I wil post a few refs to show you want I mean.

however the eblow is lookin great.

[JIII]

un flexed bicep

[JIII]

flexed bicep

[flyingP]

Thanks for the ref JIII will prove helpfull, and yep I the bicep still needs a bit of work. I don't have a muscle bone it at the moment so it's not flexing yet, I'll look into doing that today though, actually it's been all I can do over the last day or so trying to model the eldow so that it doesn't bend like a piece of hose, that's why I keep going on about this function setting in the bones, at the moment I have the function set to 1^r4, which solved some major issues with the shoulder, and could work well with her backside when I get that far, 1^r10 would be better on the elbows though, is a real pain in the shoulder area though.
Still I was aware a the start that this was likely to be a problem, I'll just have what soloutions I can find, one thing I am certain of though, is that I would never have brought this so far without the feedback from you guys, so I'll throw a huge thankyou in here.

Cheers

[Erik Heyninck]

Breasts consists mostly of fatty tissue that is fixed to the great chest muscle (pectoralis major). This muscle is attached to the rib cage, and to the humerus or upper-arm bone. So as this humerus is raised, the muscle is streched, and the breast moves upwards.
In a 8 heads proportion, the nipples are a bit lower than one head down from the chin. In a realistic 71/2 proportion, the nipples are on the bottom line of one head down from the chin.

Hope this helps.

Apart from this: very good work!

[flyingP]

Thanks for the reply Erik, actually I wish the anatomy was the only problem at the moment, the dificulty seems to be not only knowing how the thing works, it's getting it to blasted well do it in 3d as well (and I'm not having a very good day in that respect).
Through concentrating on one aspect of this thing I'm often overlooking other aspects (and badly), everytime I go back and look at the first renders I can't quite understand how I managed to make some of the strange mistakes that I have made, but that's where the feeback here has been good here though.

Cheers.

[flyingP]

OK one last update for a while and then I am going to go away in a quiet little corner and really cry for a while, this thing is making my head hurt.
This is about the best I am managing to do on the elbow at he moment, let me know what you think guys, personaly I am at the point where I'm about to throw it out and start the arm completely new.

cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/elbow3.jpg

[Erik Heyninck]

Man, you're doing a very good job indeed, and your perseverance will pay off. I can paint, and know my anatomy, but I never tried anything like this in 3D. So hats off!

[bobtronic]

Hi flyingP,

As most people here say - me included - you do a
great job on this. But I can understand you. Things
are sometimes so frustating. So make some other
things and came back with a clear mind.

cheers, Bob

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Erik Heyninck
Man, you're doing a very good job indeed, and your perseverance will pay off. I can paint, and know my anatomy, but I never tried anything like this in 3D. So hats off!

Yep that's my problem Erik I'm actually a 2Der too, this stuff is going over my head.

@ Bob
Thanks good advice, I have a few other things to do over the next few days anyway.

cheers.

[wuensch]

Keep up the good work,
this is borderland.
The ones who know how to rig on that level of detail are few and far between, and you are collecting more knowledge in this special area than most 3d professionals i know.
Be persistent, and when you have completed the body you might be one of the few able to model and rig hires-humand for animation (especially in c4d, where its a brave new world).
Olli
(who envies your detail-obsession, knowing that he would have been satisfied with what you started the thread with).

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Olli Wuensch

Olli
(who envies your detail-obsession, knowing that he would have been satisfied with what you started the thread with).

Heheh, Yeah I know I keep starting her over and over, still she has gotten further this time than the last 2 try's which really were not working, at least they were annoying the hell out of me.
Will be a couple of days before I get back into working on her again though, and I guess I should do really some real work as well at some stage.

cheers

[flyingP]

Ok here's bit of an update, may not look like much but I don't think there is a point here that I have not moved since the last time. her back still needs work, I had to pull it in quite a bit and I am still trying to reform the muscles there before I move down to her backside, I'm also trying to lower the number of polygons going into the pelvic region, not easy but possible.
Anyway just thought some of you might be interested.

Cheers
http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip6.jpg

[Deestrakt]

the left pic is impressive, the abdomen area is great. u r going into something very realistic here.. keep it going !

[AdamT]

Looks excellent man. Can't wait to see her ass. :)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by AdamT
Looks excellent man. Can't wait to see her ass. :)

Heh heh, good, yes, have to admit I'm looking forward to that too, at least it is one part that I will definitely be investing some time into.

Deestrakt,
many thanks, at least I am trying for a realistic form, I'm learning heaps about anatomy in the meantime as well, hah! and I thought my knowledge of it before wasn't that bad, one never stops learning... damn it!

cheers.

[CosmicBear]

Originally posted by flyingP
at least I am trying for a realistic form

you're TRYING for a realistic form? mate, i'd say if you continue your work on this lever you'll end up with something that can be easily compared to the final-fantasy-characters!!!!

what i would be interessting in: how many bones do you have so far?

[ODoul]

Very impressive, how about a wire? -- 3d_e

[flyingP]

OK 3d_e here's the wire (rather high poly I'm afraid), there is a good chance that it'll change in places though, I am going to have to be a bit carefull as I go into the pelvic region if I don't want it tearing later, may be that I'll have to backtrack a bit here.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWipM2.jpg


@cosmicbear, many thanks for the confidence boost, but at the moment I am still "trying", this is still rather new territory for me. As to the number of bones, that is a bit hard to say at the moment, a few more than I was expecting at any rate as I have worked in a few muscle contractions that 'I was' planning to do later. It is also unlikely to be the final rig, I have already deactivated many of those bones that I had in at the start and I have not yet set it up for soft IK which wil no doubt also bring a few changes in the current structure. Really more important than the bones at the moment is the mesh and that is getting myfull concentration

Cheers

[artemesia66]

this is looking amazing. keep going!

[AdamT]

Wow, that's a pretty heavy mesh!

[sinai_1]

I think what flyingP is doing here is to add as many polys as necessary to areas that are going to be involved in visible skin movement and of course the areas where the joints bend.....(very realistic aproach)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by sinai_1
I think what flyingP is doing here is to add as many polys as necessary to areas that are going to be involved in visible skin movement and of course the areas where the joints bend.....(very realistic aproach)

Bingo, well sort of, I am also trying to get away without having to use tri's, which are a bugger in any mesh.

Cheers

[flyingP]

Originally posted by AdamT
Looks excellent man. Can't wait to see her ass. :)

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip7.jpg

bit too early to test how this deforms though.

[AdamT]

Ah, buns of steel!

[flyingP]

Her legs/hips etc are not yet fully rigged, it would be hard to make her sit without everything looking a bit weird at the moment for example, all the same it looks as though It should work quite well when everything is set up properly.

Any thoughts?

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip8.jpg

[AdamT]

It just looks dynamite. :thumbsup: The only real problem I see is the shoulder blade area.

[Zion]

Really awesome flyingP. Fanstastic study. Can't wait to see it finished!

[bobtronic]

Nice progress. How many polys now ? I think the
butt needs some work where it blends into the back
and the legs. And somehow I think the chest is to
small but this could be the perspective. That are only
small critiques I think this going to be a great model.

cheers, Bob

[sanciok]

u'd need some muscole bones on that model!
I was inspired by your work to do my muscle rig FlyingP!!!

it's not that difficult!!!

[basti]

wow! very impressive modelling, looking forward to see the next steps :)

[flyingP]

Hey thanks guys,

Adam,
well spotted, I'm not yet quite happy with that area either, so far at least the mesh has been quite forgiving so I should be able to get it sorted.

Zion,
To be honest I can't either.

Bob,
"How many polys now ?"

lost count of those a while ago... I have NO idea, and I am too scared to look. I'll look into the other points, thanks (probably won't be getting any sleep now though).

sanciok
I was inspired by your work to do my muscle rig FlyingP!!!


Really?, cool, I am really quite flattered over that, and you did a VERY nice job by the way.

My rigging here is however just a byproduct, I am really just testing to make sure the mesh isn't likely to tear, I will be adding muscle bones, soft IK and a few expression later, don't forget this is WIP the setup that's in this thing at the moment is likely to change.

[ODoul]

Looks awesome P, I think that perhaps the bottom of the buttocks are to defined. I think that there would be a smoother transition from the butt to the legs. Still, looking pretty sharp! -- 3d_e

[ODoul]

It is also worth noting that not every female is the same and this could realistically happen (the butt, that is). So on that note, you're doing fantastic work here! -- 3d_e

[JIII]

don;t go making him do a fleshy butt yet guys. come on if he does it puts him right up there with guys like stlahberg. Almost no one can make a nice fleshy ass. looks great dude.

[AdamT]

I think the butt goes nicely with the muscular torso. Not my cup of tea, but true to form. :)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
It is also worth noting that not every female is the same and this could realistically happen (the butt, that is). So on that note, you're doing fantastic work here! -- 3d_e

trying to get out of it huh?, personaly I feel you are right though it is perhaps a wee bit "too defined", I'll play around a bit with that today.


don;t go making him do a fleshy butt yet guys. come on if he does it puts him right up there with guys like stlahberg. Almost no one can make a nice fleshy ass. looks great dude.

JIII you do I hope realise that after writing that, that I am now likely to kill myself trying.

Thanks for the thought guys, I have something to play with now.
Cheers.

[flyingP]

OK, just a very quick update on her backside, haven't done the shoulder blades yet.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip9.jpg

cheers

[Deestrakt]

Well, Mr P (or can I call you Fly? ;)) this update is impressive. you are doing great, definetly. thank you for sharing this WIP with us because its very instructive to see your progression. the overall shape is very good & looks natural. :buttrock:
i suppose that you have enough reference pics but i found one that is similar to the actual pose of your mesh, so i thought u might be interested to see it. plus, its an athletic model too. might help if u want to define tiny back muscles.
pic taken by boris vallejo (http://www.remtek.net/0/deestrakt/default/images/01/100.jpg)

[prayas]

This is so dermaßen gut! Man incredible detail.
will she ever get a head?

P..:

[flyingP]

Originally posted by Deestrakt
Well, Mr P (or can I call you Fly? ;)) this update is impressive. you are doing great, definetly. thank you for sharing this WIP with us because its very instructive to see your progression. the overall shape is very good & looks natural. :buttrock:
i suppose that you have enough reference pics but i found one that is similar to the actual pose of your mesh, so i thought u might be interested to see it. plus, its an athletic model too. might help if u want to define tiny back muscles.
pic taken by boris vallejo (http://www.remtek.net/0/deestrakt/default/images/01/100.jpg)

"Bri" is actually closer as "Fly" but any will do.
Actually I should be thanking you guys more, as without the feedback I doubt she would have come so far there are things I just often don't myself, untill it gets mentioned.

And aha, the good old Boris, now that is a strong woman, thanks for the pic.

@prayas, certainly hope so, she'll look a bit funny without, still that will be another chapter

Cheers

[flyingP]

Ok I've been over the back again, although I am "trying" not to over do her muscles there. This time rendered without using the auto light as well which also makes bit of a difference. I'm still a bit unsure about this though.

Cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/FemWip11.jpg

[bobtronic]

The butt is much better now. Excellent - thumbs up

Bob

[flyingP]

Taking into account the fun I had with her elbows this is the "first" shot at her knees, although I am pretty happy with them.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/knees.jpg

Cheers

[flyingP]

And a wire for those who are interested.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/kneewire.jpg

Cheers.

[ThirdEye]

Clean, anatomically correct, solid. :applause:

[flyingP]

Thanks ThirdEye_01, don't suppose you have a spare head going by the way do you? that is one part that I am getting bit apprehensive about, that and the feet.
Cheers

[prayas]

A bit to late to ask for a head. You proofed that you are abled to do it on your own.

And yes some days ago i had a nice head for you but now i started to learn from your mesh and allready began a body for this one.

keep up that is some great work.

P..:

[JIII]

there just seems something a little "funny" about the knees It seems like the kneecap protrudes a little too much perhaps? I don't honestly know. Also the spine on the back of your woman seems a little sharp in the ref it was wider.

Anyway great work and I love it. Kepp killing yourself over this man. We will buy you a nice casket if you keel over.

anyway great work. I want to see her jump lol. bouncy bouncy bouncy ;)....

[prayas]

And yeah. bounce bounce that would be cool.

As you posted such nice detailed wires on the legs may i ask for such nice detailed wires for an arm again. i just cant get the arm and elbow right like i want it.

P..:

[flyingP]

First of all guys credit where credit really is due ThirdEye's heads are just damn fantastic, it's the one part of the human body that all of us will see the mistakes in straight away, on top of that you haven't seen some of the heads I've tried before, there is also no way in hell that I'll be showing them either (far too embarrassing)

@ JIII, you may actually find that the knee cap doesn't protrude enough, at least isn't "quite" sharp enough I feel (damn hard things to model, knees), I'm still battling with the bones function setting and it will take a while before the rigging is set up too work as I want it (if at all).

@Prayas,
Prayas why do I get the feeling that I am giving away all of my secrets, study the mesh (general) closer all you need to know technically for the elbow is also in the knee the rest is intuition and I can't help you there.

[pit]

@prayas
http://www.metagons.com/wiredepot01.htm
Great wires to study.

flyingp: Great work you´re pulling off - and it´s fun to follow the progress!

A bit OT but since you are in Germany: did you have a chance to look at Sven Hauths book- "Charakteranimation mit C4D R8 - Rigging und Animation inklusive Mocca"? I bought it 2 weeks ago and it´s fantastic. Could come in handy, when you start rigging your beauty.

Cheers

[flyingP]

Originally posted by pit
A bit OT but since you are in Germany: did you have a chance to look at Sven Hauths book- "Charakteranimation mit C4D R8 - Rigging und Animation inklusive Mocca"? I bought it 2 weeks ago and it´s fantastic. Could come in handy, when you start rigging your beauty.

Cheers

Not yet but I am interested, actually to be honest I'm still working my way through Arndts book "Ein Workshop für Profis", now there is one clever sod, really shows you just what an incredible piece of software Cinema is... if only I understood the half of it.

Just out of curiosity though does Sven's book go into any detail on facial rigging?, as that's one area that ""REALLY"" drives me crazy.

Cheers.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by pit
@prayas
http://www.metagons.com/wiredepot01.htm
Great wires to study.



Hey there's also a mesh of mine there! http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0213.jpg :surprised


Thanks for your compliments flyingP :)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01

Thanks for your compliments flyingP :)

Not a problem, and your work "is" impressive.

Cheers

[pit]

Some time ago there was one very good tutorial over at:
http://www.computerarts.co.uk
on lip syncing and facial rigging. If it´s not there anymore, I think I´ve got it somewhere.... let me know if you find it.

[pit]

Hey there's also a mesh of mine there!

Cool!
Hehe - sue him!:twisted: Meshtheft ... just kidding...

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by pit
Cool!
Hehe - sue him!:twisted: Meshtheft ... just kidding...


I just sent them a watermarked mesh to replace that pic ;)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by pit
Some time ago there was one very good tutorial over at:
http://www.computerarts.co.uk
on lip syncing and facial rigging. If it´s not there anymore, I think I´ve got it somewhere.... let me know if you find it.

Seems to be gone, or I'm just no good a finding it

[pit]

Ok - I´ll try to dig it out. I´ll let you know if I suceed.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by pit
@prayas
http://www.metagons.com/wiredepot01.htm
Great wires to study.

Great link Pit!

[flingster]

http://www.metagons.com/ds_articledepotindex.htm
btw if anybody knows bunks email address can you please email him as his edge loop study is on there and they are asking if they can be emailed by the author to give credit.(3rd one down)
cheers guys...i'm sure adamt will know it...let him know he deserves the credit.

:thumbsup:

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by flingster
http://www.metagons.com/ds_articledepotindex.htm
btw if anybody knows bunks email address can you please email him as his edge loop study is on there and they are asking if they can be emailed by the author to give credit.(3rd one down)
cheers guys...i'm sure adamt will know it...let him know he deserves the credit.

:thumbsup:


i just told him ;)

[flingster]

cheers...:beer:

[ODoul]

I think you're doing a great job here P, those knees are kick ass. -- 3d_e

[bobtronic]

Originally posted by pit
Ok - I´ll try to dig it out. I´ll let you know if I suceed.

Hi Pit,

I have this tutorial too. So you don't have to dig to deep.

FlyingP: If you are interested let me know. I can email
it to you.

Bob

[pit]

Thanks Bob - I´ll stop digging then :)

[flyingP]

Pit thanks for taking the time.

Bob,
thanks, yep I am interested I'll PM you with my email address.

[bobtronic]

I just discovered that I have only the project files of the
tutorial not the tutorial itself. But you can learn alot from
the project files I guess. It is also a bit outdated (using
bones and PLA for the poses). With Posemixer or
MorphMixer it is alot easier. For people with C4D 6.3 it is
still interesting. Anyway, I have uploaded the project files
so that all can take a look at it.

http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/synclips.zip
(about 1.6MB)

Bob

[flyingP]

Thanks for the files Bob, they are enough to go on.

mmmm... interesting and a rather simply set up too it would seem.

I can see I am going to have to experiment a bit more with this sort of stuff.

I've been working personally on trying to get a facial rig going in soft IK, and actually felt I was getting close at one stage too (you can get some real great muscle movement in soft IK) is just rather complicated. May be that I can't get around using .PLA at some point, just with a high poly count it means one hell of a lot of work.

[flingster]

i don't know if you guys saw this link in 3d world...but its mind blowing....

http://staff.ci.qut.edu.au/~barkerc/Final%20PAN%20website/panindex.htm

definitely think flyingp should take a read...:thumbsup:

[bobtronic]

Thanks for this link flingster. Its a great ressource.
BTW each time I see screenshots of Maya it reminds
me of C4D. The style of the icons - very similar.

Bob

[flingster]

the animation cracked me up.
but had a quickie read...does he actually use bones to make a rib cage...and does the rib cage he uses actually sit in the model or was this just for demonstation purposes...i guess i'm gonna have to take some time out to digest what he did...but the end result is awesome.
:buttrock:

[flyingP]

Very nice, and the same line of thought with the mesh geometry just he's doing it better.
Great link flingster, and many thanks:beer:
BTW I also highly recomend the book he was using as figure ref

"Burne Hogarth's book Dynamic Figure Drawing"

I bought the German verision a few weeks ago and it is FANTASTIC reference.

Cheers


Hahahahhahaha, I've just loaded down the animation as well, brilliant.

[ThirdEye]

I have 3 books by Hogarth and they all rule!

[flyingP]

I have just been going through that "Pan" project, damn you know it would seem he did build the whole skeleton, isn't that going a bit into overkill?, I'm not familiar with Maya so I'm not sure if it makes any diference to the skin that is applied over the top, or if it was simpley used for a correct anitomical construction and movement? interesting. Seems he's encountered similar problembs with the shoulder though, bit of a terminology question here, morph target = blendshape?

Cheers

Ok to answer myself I have looked further and now understand why and how he did this (well... sort of understand how). The amount of detail this guy went into is incredible, and I suppose in order to really "understand" a character rather logical, at any rate it has sure as hell got me thinking, especially with regards to rigging of some areas.

[flyingP]

OK it's not a huge update, but hands are complicated, I do hope to have the thumb on this weekend though.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/hands.jpg

Cheers, Bri

[JIII]

nice dude but its a tad umm lumpy ya know.

looks like witches hands. I think the knuckles are a little too over exagerated.

but great looking none the less.

[flyingP]

Yeah after looking at it a bit I could end up agreeing with you on that one.
I've come a bit further in the meantime, I'll update the the above render in a few minutes I hope.

Cheers

Ok the one on the bottom left is a slight update, think I'll spend some time on those knuckles now though.

[flyingP]

OK I this should look a little less "witchy" now I hope.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/hand2.jpg

[AdamT]

The hand is looking good. Those puppies are tough to model.

[flyingP]

the real killer is the thumb, but I'll get on to that tomorrow.

[flyingP]

Ok if I got my act together an didn't waste so much time in this forum I'd have had the complete thumb on by now. At any rate it's 'almost' there.

Cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/hand6.jpg

[JIII]

its almost there have you examined the otto and meg wires? They should give you a good idea of what to do.


ohh yea much better.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by JIII
its almost there have you examined the otto and meg wires? They should give you a good idea of what to do.
.
Or what not to do in some places.

[JIII]

am I allowed to spam this thread too??

or is it off limits?

yea anyway that or lok up cactus dan's old hand wire.

it was rather impressive.

[flyingP]

never saw that one. his cowboy was pretty cool though.

[JIII]

well it was part of his cowboy.

Which is still not finished I don't think lol.

[flyingP]

Thought a wire might be of interest, the hardest part at the moment is trying to get the hand poly's connected to the arm poly's without adding tri's so far so good though. The real challenge is going to be the palm end especially the fleshy area around the thumb but I am reasonably confident I can get that working. The rigging is requiring a bit of extra thought though.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/handmesh.jpg

[prayas]

what a simple wire for this hand. I expected a little more detailed thing after seeing your great body modeling. Sorry to say that.
It looks like you didn't put that much time and work into the hand as into the other parts.

P..:

[flyingP]

Considering it's the top of the hand, and there isn't that much moving there I thought it was far too many poly's. The palm is a little more complicated.
I'm not actually 'trying' to use heaps of poly's Prayas, just as many as I feel I need.

Cheers

[JIII]

or maybe this is just version 1 prayas.


I suggest you look up dans old cowboy thread for the hand wires.

[prayas]

this is a subdivided render i believe?

I did understand that. Well keep up with that.
Just my thoughts anyway.

P..:

[flyingP]

Originally posted by prayas
this is a subdivided render i believe?


not that I was aware of.

[flingster]

my only comment is the knuckles need some work...but don't ask me how...cos i don't know.
some references
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0202.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0307.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0424.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0501.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0513.jpg
http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0526.jpg

[flyingP]

Thanks flinster I'll have a look at those, I was plannig to go over the knuckles again anyway.

this is the palm at the moment BTW also not finished but all I'll be doing for today.

Cheers.

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/hand8.jpg

[bobtronic]

Hi,

Hands are not an easy thing to model. Here are some wires
of the hands of my wizard-character. I was quite satisfied
with them and they deform very well. They are not so
hi-poly as yours but perhaps it helps you.

http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/hand_wire01.gif
http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/hand_wire02.gif
http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/fist_wire.gif

keep up the good work

cheers, Bob

[JIII]

well I think it looks nice.


how is the rigging and deformations going for this body part?

[flyingP]

Thanks for the wires guys, looks like my poly count is likely to explode now after seeing that lot, I wasn't actually planning to get that carried away with the deatail.... ahh, but what the hell.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by JIII
well I think it looks nice.


how is the rigging and deformations going for this body part?

only the index finger is properly rigged at the moment, but deforms better than I thought, I am still battling with the bones function setting, although that helpson the base of the thumb.

[smoke]

Are you finding it easier to rig as you go along?

[flyingP]

Much easier smoke, although the rigging is not quite complete, but it saves having to fix things up later.

[flyingP]

OK I have 'only' reworked the index finger at the moment (hah, just 4 hours work or so :argh: for a finger), but before I kill myself trying to do the rest I'd be curious to hear your thoughts/comments/suggestions etc.

cheers

http://www.bjread.joice.net/fposts/hand7.jpg

[pit]

Seems to be a habit of yours ;) : the fingers are too square.
Keep up the good work and post a wire of the hand :)

[flyingP]

Originally posted by pit
Seems to be a habit of yours ;) : the fingers are too square.
may have something to do with the fact that I am using my own partly as a reference sorce:D damn have I got wierd hands. But thanks Pit that give me some more to work on. I can see this taking a while:cry:


and I'll have to post a wire a bit later, must run.

[pit]

Please post a photo of your hand!:surprised I want to see it.
Damn, I know I´ll spend the rest of the day looking for people with square fingers now - just to prove myself wrong! :)

[flyingP]

:D

May just be my eyes Pit or too much :beer:

Anyway.... I've decided to pack this hand to one side for the moment and try out a few other ideas. The wires that flingster showed me last night were informative but there are a few things that are bugging me there too.
Time for some experimentation t'would seem untill I feel that I really understand this inside out (if) :banghead:.

cheers

[ThirdEye]

Have a look at Peter Syomka's meshes in the wip forum ;)

[ODoul]

I agree with Pit on the squarish appearance of the fingers. Also, I think the second digit on the "nasty" finger looks a bit elongated. Looks like very hard work but you are on your way. Nice work.

[flyingP]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
Have a look at Peter Syomka's meshes in the wip forum ;)

:) that was actually under the links that flingster had included earlier, I agree they are very good and I've gone over them in some detail today, all the same I have a few other ideas of my own that I'd like to try out first, a few things have occured to me after spending quite some time studying my own hands today, may take time but could be worth the experience, who knows maybe Prayas was right and I have been a bit lazy on the hands, just don't expect any quick updates guys. Hell this project was already over the top, swear it's goind to drive me crazy, but then I suppose if it's worth doing then...

Thanks for the input guys.

:wavey:--OK, next day-- (don't feel like bumping this up anymore at the moment)

After playing around a bit and studying the other wires my own (square) hands and some other reference I've decided to stick with the original wire somehow from the concept here it just 'feels' right (OK I'm a sucker for punishment), I just have to work a bit on the detail and somehow prove my point:wip:. I have other work to do in the meantime but hope to get back into this on the weekend.

cheers

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