PDA

View Full Version : Modeling Issues.


SonicNextGen
11-08-2009, 10:32 PM
Hi!
I'm new here, I'm 16 and I'm trying to make my path to 3D artist to get into Game and Film industry. well I'm just trying to improve my skills before going to DigiPen. i began 3D 3 month ago by the way, by myself.
This was my first model (http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7672/practice.png) (days after i knew what 3D really mean, the first days where to learn tools), then those came days after: 1 (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2383/24504567.png) - 2 (http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8350/badnick.png) - 3 (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2521/e102gamma.png) - 4 (http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5125/e123omega.png) - and this, as the first rendering. (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/390/e102gammarender.png)
And today, i registered here as i found this forum full of great artist who make incredible art.
..OK enough speeches. i was modeling a female head and body today and i came across some issues, i wasn't able to add more details here (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/bodypb.png/) (the red lines show where anatomy details should be) but if i try to add them, the whole topology should be modified (wich requires more skills to get done), and a similar problem here (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/headfu.png/) with the head, where i must change the topology but couldn't. Could someone help?
Thanks!

Dare-o
11-10-2009, 12:04 AM
If you could post a wireframe of your torso it would help. I'd like to see what your edge flow is like.

I'd also start looking at what other people have done with their character models, mostly wireframes, and see how their edge flows create the anatomy you want on your model.

SonicNextGen
11-10-2009, 01:34 AM
I see them all the time, i may imagine how a correct edgeflow should be (i have a some previous 2D skills: anatomy etc..) but i can't apply it..
Here's the Wireframe Body : Right here. (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9248/wireframesh.png)
Thanks!

far
11-10-2009, 06:53 PM
welcome,

first of all, try working without mesh smoothing. You need to build a solid mesh base if you want good results. Most probably you have extra edges which are causing problems.

Post a screen without smoothing then a better suggestion can be given. It is not difficult just takes some practice to get the idea how things work. Good luck :)

Dare-o
11-10-2009, 07:11 PM
was hoping for a base mesh but whatever.

So look at your models arm, it's completely straight, all the edgeflow is going in 1 straight direction. Now, look at your arm in real life, and make the palm of your hand face the ground. You see your radius has twisted, causing most of your forearm to rotate 90. Apply that to your model. And try to keep your base mesh simple, there's nothing worse then adding unnecessary edgeloops. Let the smoothing do that part later on when your done. :)

so here is what i mean:
(Model courtesy of school)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3372/whatov.jpg

goodluck!

SonicNextGen
11-12-2009, 12:41 AM
far, i'll try to improve the mesh, then post a screen for the result.
dare-o, wow.. that arm looks so realistic! for the rotation of the forearm, i swear i knew it! but ugh.. didn't apply it! also, my problem is not being able to create those N-gons and E-gons (i got that from SomeArtist) and also where to put them.
Thanks to both of you guys! your advices are very precious!
Um.. it'll be cool if you would like to check this drawing (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Not-too-fancy-but-works-143293300) i just finished.

drawallday
11-12-2009, 03:09 PM
far, i'll try to improve the mesh, then post a screen for the result.
dare-o, wow.. that arm looks so realistic! for the rotation of the forearm, i swear i knew it! but ugh.. didn't apply it! also, my problem is not being able to create those N-gons and E-gons (i got that from SomeArtist) and also where to put them.
Thanks to both of you guys! your advices are very precious!
Um.. it'll be cool if you would like to check this drawing (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Not-too-fancy-but-works-143293300) i just finished.

That's a cool pic. Have you considered pursuing a career as a concept artist?

Anyway back to your original point... yes work on your flow. Make sure you use reference from a professional source.

SonicNextGen
11-24-2009, 11:19 PM
Drawallday: both! :)
As of my problem, it won't solve.. i tried to copy that arm, but i couldn't get the correct topology. i see some N-Gons in there that make the correct topology, i'm trying to learn how to create them in a mesh. could someone help?
ps: i think this is what's called 'Retopology' right?
Edit: No.. it's building a mesh on top of anoter one as a reference. i just got it from YouTube.

musashidan
11-25-2009, 09:36 AM
I think you're confusing N-gons with poles. An N-gon is a poly face with 5 or more sides(the N denoting the number) and what i believe you're refering to are called poles. areas of the topology where 3,5 or more edges converge on a vert. It is vital to understand these as they are the key to moving away from an all quad "grid" topology to a topology like the one posted above. You'll notice that poles are placed strategically to redirect the topology flow and helps define the musculature.

SonicNextGen
11-28-2009, 01:43 AM
Poles. Thanks musashidan! i really appreciate it!
I'm happy to say that i kinda began to understand how to control the edgeflow! i just have to create the 'anatomy edges' and the try to merge them with the model (while paying attention to the quads and edgeflow). Here's my first poor example (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4563/3dmodel.png). i know that the edgeflow is incorrect, i'll try to learn more about it.

SonicNextGen
12-04-2009, 06:36 PM
Hi guys (... and girls)!
I'm box modeling a figure and i made it to the point where i want to scale some edges without modifying the mesh's structure. is that possible?
Here: *Click* (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9292/headv.png)
Thanks! :D

Dare-o
12-04-2009, 09:00 PM
its probably best to move the verts, not the edges. and if your building a face I would start with the lips then move outward. Box modeling can get messy very quick.

SonicNextGen
12-07-2009, 11:29 PM
Thanks Dare-o! i just moved the verts. as for the steps, i've seen 2 video tutorials that start with th eyes like that so i'm trying to memorize them. starting with the lips will be a big challenge for me.
It got messy serveral times..! i did best by saving very often! here it is. (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3829/erazordjin.png)
No blueprints by the way. i didn't find some but it's better like that for some improvement in 3D and 2D.

drawallday
12-09-2009, 02:08 PM
Drawallday: both! :)
As of my problem, it won't solve.. i tried to copy that arm, but i couldn't get the correct topology. i see some N-Gons in there that make the correct topology, i'm trying to learn how to create them in a mesh. could someone help?
ps: i think this is what's called 'Retopology' right?
Edit: No.. it's building a mesh on top of anoter one as a reference. i just got it from YouTube.

You're making some progress there. Keep it up!
Since you want both, concept art and 3d... eventually you might find it tricky to keep up with both.

SonicNextGen
12-13-2009, 02:15 AM
Thank you Drawallday!
Don't you think that, if you make progress in 3D, you do so in 2D too? and the other way around? i think it's working pretty well for me (as a selfthaugh in both 2D and 3D).
I want to thank 'Some Artist' endlessly!! in the begining, i didn't understand the theory about poles, but now, after reading his incredibly helpful lessons again and again, i made a progress and applied the theory behind the powerful 'Poles'!
Here's my latest model : Shara. Topology practice. (http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9107/sharatopology.png)

Dare-o
12-13-2009, 04:10 AM
huge improvement. :cool:

SonicNextGen
12-13-2009, 04:23 PM
Thanks! that kind of comment makes me blush! :)

SonicNextGen
12-16-2009, 01:06 AM
Here's a drawing i did right after getting a new tablet (the other one doesn't work properly anymore). it was supposed to be an anatomy practice, but i wanted to practice values aswell. Erazor Djin. (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Erazor-Djin-146890285)
Hope ya like it! :)

SonicNextGen
12-17-2009, 11:21 AM
Just finished another piece : Here.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/351/b/7/Lonely_____by_SNGPSo.png)

drawallday
12-17-2009, 03:12 PM
Just finished another piece : Here.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/351/b/7/Lonely_____by_SNGPSo.png)

I like the idea on this one! But there is something confusing about the camera view. Maybe if you could make the reflection more obvious.. like adding in a mirror frame, some cool light reflections, make sonic more visible by moving him around a bit and try to pick colors that separate two characters some more. Then you're all set!

SonicNextGen
12-21-2009, 12:50 AM
Thanks for you reply Drawallday!
Made some improvement in the pic earlier. forgot to submit here!
Here it is : *click* (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Lonely-147029563)
I made Sonic more visible, added some light in the Backround and erased some snow; there was too much.
I'm busy with anoter drawing now. once i finish it, i'll do some 3D! yay!

SonicNextGen
03-28-2010, 11:00 PM
Hi!
2D:
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Ganondorf-158121653
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/You-want-to-touch-me-158631740
3D:
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Tuna-S-World-158749657

SonicNextGen
04-01-2010, 05:11 PM
This is Dr.Eggman (http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7199/doctoreggman.png).
I'm having some problems with texturing.. I still can't figure out how to texture low poly hair, and I couldn't texture the details in his outfit.

Dare-o
04-01-2010, 06:33 PM
heres a tutorial on how to do 2 different types of hair, both using the alpha technique. Hm, blocks the website so just type on google "texturing alpha hair maya" and it should bring up the low poly character hair.

SonicNextGen
05-01-2010, 01:14 PM
Thanks Dare-o! even if those tutorials always get complicated.. thank you for posting!
It looks like I have some more modeling issues :D.. my model's UV layout is alot bigger to fit in the 0-1 position. can I just scale the UVs down to make them fit there? *Clicks* (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3770/stuckb.jpg)
Here is some more 2D work i've done so far (I'm working slowly, exams...):
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Sonic-I-m-going-to-save-you-160232919
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/The-Disaster-161523615
Thank you.

Dare-o
05-01-2010, 07:22 PM
can I just scale the UVs down to make them fit there? *Clicks* (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3770/stuckb.jpg)


thats correct.

SonicNextGen
05-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Thank you Dare-o! :D
This is a new Sonic model I'm doing currently. the head modeling is finished, I'll try to model the body aswell and then I'll try the texturing. Preview (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8885/soniccopy.jpg).
I was also modeling a female body, but I gave it up, it looked pathetic... I think it's because I was trying to make the edgeloops follow the muscles, I need more experience there. *surfs the net*
2D: *Clicks* (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/LittleBigChao-163053055).

SonicNextGen
06-04-2010, 03:29 AM
Hi!
Well after posting a painting of mine in the Paintover topic, and Mr.Stalberg corrected it x), I realized that I had to pay more attention to the light.
2D:
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Piece-of-Cake-164188337?q=sort%3Atime+gallery%3Asngpso&qo=2
http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Super-Mario-Galaxy-165633557?q=sort%3Atime+gallery%3Asngpso&qo=1
(They still have light issues, but I tried to avoid most of the mistakes I was doing).
As for the 3D, I tried to model Sonic. paying attention to the topology this time.
Let's compare :
This Sonic (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8717/sonicthehedgehog.jpg), as one of my very early models. (no I didn't start with boxes and spheres xP but take a look at the process (http://img12.imageshack.us/f/creepyd.jpg/), I had headaches! no literally.).
with This one (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/#/d2qm3ol) (box modeled). I'm soo happy with the improvement! yay! (extruding the arms was a mistake. from the official artworks (http://www.wallpaperez.net/wallpaper/games/Sonic-and-the-Black-Knight-1853.jpg), they look like a separated mesh.)

SonicNextGen
07-28-2010, 09:02 PM
Hi,
I made a new low-poly model (Concept Art by BetelGeist from dA):
Model.
(http://img31.imageshack.us/i/workermodeldone.png/)Wireframes. (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/workerdone.png/)
Texrures: skin (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/workerskindone.png/), clothes (http://img230.imageshack.us/i/workerclothtexture.png/), hair (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/bearbdone.png/).

Doomc
07-28-2010, 10:07 PM
After only 3 months teaching yourself, I think you're progressing really quickly. I've started teaching myself about a month ago so you inspired me to work harder. Keep making progress, good luck!

SonicNextGen
07-29-2010, 02:03 AM
Thank you Doomc, Such comments motivate me even more!
Good luck to you aswell!

SonicNextGen
09-09-2010, 05:57 AM
I've been exploring textures and I found out a use of more than a simple color map.
Normal and specular maps are really amazing.. if the Wii had them, they would make it a Next Gen console.
Toku (http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7343/toku.png) from Lost Winds.
There goes the summer.. not a single dive lol.

ariff13
09-17-2010, 07:45 AM
is there a way to virtually "sculpt" model in max or maya just like zbrush?

SonicNextGen
10-29-2010, 10:48 PM
I don't think so ariff13... Max and Maya are modeling tools (wich isn't sculpting).
So, I managed to put alot of effort in the following scene so that I can put it in a Portfolio to show to the school for a scholarship consideration (SCAD).
LittleBigPlanet (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/LittleBIGPlanet-184355523).
Used MentalRay as a rendering engine (both Final Gather and Global Illumination). Tweaked in Photoshop.

Meloncov
10-30-2010, 02:18 AM
Maya does have sculpting tools (I think they're under the Mesh menu), but they're pretty severely limited and a tad buggy.

SonicNextGen
10-30-2010, 08:30 AM
I came across them one day. And the fact that they're way far to be like Zbrush doesn't make them sculpting tools.

cg-cnu
10-31-2010, 05:41 PM
Keep up the good work...You are improving very fast.

As you said in the earlier post keep doing both the 2d and the 3d works. Since you are still in the early stage learn some art. Learn drawing, anatomy and color theory. It will be helpful for you in the long run.

SonicNextGen
01-22-2011, 09:41 AM
Thank you cg-cnu! And yes...I've been trying to keep up with all of them. It's a 'must', instead of a 'plus'.
It looks like I can't overcome this Topology obstacle... http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4213/25829401.png
I modeled this one from scratch without reference in like 15 min. But I always seem to be stuck at the stage where you need to manipulate the existing topology as needed. It's definitely not just getting rid of unwanted Poles and Tris...

flatulentFuzz
01-23-2011, 10:44 AM
You have some really nice work in here. As to your doubts on topology, you shouldn't worry about optimising poles at the earlier stages.

If you're box-modeling, focus on form and structure first, and don't bother too much about accurate topology or poles. Just get its silhouette and larger features to look like your final vision.
Once you've got a blocked in model, start improving on the topology very broadly. Bring in the fingers and toes if you haven't already, add loops for the pectorals, shoulder girdle(one loop encompassing the clavicle, deltoid and possibly scapula), hips and any larger forms. At this stage, you want to make sure you can recognize the broader anatomical landmarks, but nothing of more detail like the tendons or muscles of the forearm, etc. Clean up poles if necessary, but don't get carried away.

Now you'll move onto topology for more detailed features such as abdominal muscles, the obliques, muscles and tendons of the thigh, leg, upper arm and forearm. Here's where you'll really want to do some major cleanup and optimisation of your mesh. If you're concerned with game design, I don't think this step is of particular importance, but I don't know too much about game design, so I can't say.
To get a few ideas on topology, follow the paintover thread by Steven Stahlberg.
For even more insight into topology, I recommend you go through these threads: Body Topology (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=7&t=108412) and
Topology Research (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=25&t=38469)
I know they're pretty big, but even reading through 50% of them will help you immensely.
Anyway, hope I could help a little.

SonicNextGen
01-24-2011, 09:07 PM
Thank you flatulentFuzz! That sums up a lot of what I've been learning about 3D.
Currently, I'm concerned about 'how' to manipulate the Topology (like when to spin that edge, delete it or anything else to get the desired, clean topology).
I better gather more info about that.

SonicNextGen
03-19-2011, 11:32 PM
Hi! :D
A finished 2D image to start: Dark Fight. (http://sngpso.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Fight-201456027)
I've been doing this 3D character (Midna from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess), and I would really like to get it done nicely. WIP Link (http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3872/89223779.png)
At this point, I got the base mesh done (with quads for Zbrush), but I actually lost track of what to do next...unwrap it, or take it to Zbrush? both? I don't know what to do...
The marked topology in the mesh clearly don't fit there. Tried manipulating them but...
Also, there's this 'Mirror Plane' I've used. It looks stuck there...
Thanks!

Hyeon
03-20-2011, 07:43 PM
Hello, i just started using 3ds max for 2 month.. and i want to start practice to organic modelling..
where should i start? btw,i keep wondering if i want to modelling an organic model, should i draw the wireframe in reference image first or what?
thank's for your reply guys..

flatulentFuzz
03-21-2011, 11:30 PM
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19664301/89223779.png

Here's what your mesh should look like. I suggest using the split polygon tool to fix it, it shouldn't take too long. Repeat the same meshflow on the front as well.
On ZBrush workflow, version 3.5 onwards has a plugin available for download called UVMaster or something of the sort, which allows you to unwrap your model in ZBrush itself. I myself generally prefer unwrapping beforehand because I get a lot more flexibility, and I use a free Maya script called zebrUV.
On the other hand, I don't really see why you'd want to sculpt a model like this one since all the detail you might want can be easily achieved without sculpting. Besides, with simpler models such as this one, you're really setting yourself back by sculpting it because then you have to worry about normal/displacement maps in addition to everything else.

Hello, i just started using 3ds max for 2 month.. and i want to start practice to organic modelling..
where should i start? btw,i keep wondering if i want to modelling an organic model, should i draw the wireframe in reference image first or what?
thank's for your reply guys..

Drawing the wireframe first is a good way to start, though I had never thought of it when I first started.

SonicNextGen
07-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Hi again. And thank you flatulentFuzz for your reply, that area has been fixed thanks to your help :D!
It's finally summer and I'm done with studies.
Continuing the mesh I already had, I uved it and 'm stuck at the texturing/rendering phase.. I'd like to achieve a very similar effect to this images (including the orange glow effect): [ http://betelgeist.deviantart.com/#/d3b5jpz ].But I just don't know how, and from where to start. I can paint color maps with no problem but it obviously takes more than that map...

Also, on the 2D side, I've done this image: [ http://sngpso.deviantart.com/#/d3l5foq ], but the image looks still and there's no sense of movement. I wonder how I would achieve the desired movement effect I want without any Photoshop filters (I saw that on YouTube). There should be a theory behind it..

Thanks!

CGTalk Moderation
07-09-2011, 11:54 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.