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ionanism
08-16-2003, 09:33 AM
Alright another challenge, I really like this idea, but I am having a hard time coming up with a good Idea.

I had this idea to do a character that was part of a program to create a super soldier after WWI. The guy had a gun and metal plates spliced to his body he was also later apart of the MK-Ultra mind control experiments of the early 1940s, but I put the idea up on one of the issues boards and lildragon said it was way to modern. If you want to see a drawing of itclick here (http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/draft_01.jpg)

I went back to the drawing board and came up with this: The Black Widow. A woman that was born with extremely long arms, legs, fingers and other body parts, maybe even an extra eye or two. Here is a drawing: widow sketch (http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/widow_dr.jpg)

She wears a crazy gas mask, and has a gas gun strapped to her arm; the gas tank is under the butt of the “big butt” dress that she is wearing. She has a sickle because she kills (hens Black widow), and the sickle is a symbol of a life cut short. The gas knocks out or paralyzes the victims and then she cuts them with the sickle, which I think is a good weapon for someone to use on things below them.

Let me know what you think.

I hope I am not ripping anything off subconsciously. I think what I have looks cool, I hope it’s not “from something” somewhere. I have a tendency to do that, I think that I am making up stuff on my own but its actually from something…I usually do that with my guitar though.

tobe90
08-16-2003, 11:49 AM
i think the widow thing sounds great, the name is great for a freak.

heres my first when you wrote black widow, though, and please forget it if it doesn't sound right.

Focusing on the WIDOW part instead of the BLACK, saying that you could model an old lady, long arms, legs, etc, more of a witch than a superhero. I imagine they found her in some swamp in a hut filled with, ta-da black widows.

that was my first thought, don't pay any attention to it.

ionanism
08-16-2003, 07:36 PM
I see what you are saying (I think) when you hear widow one would think of an old lady. So are you saying that it would be cool if she was an old witch that was like the queen black widow of a bunch of spiders?
That is a cool idea, but my initial idea was for her to be kinda sexy and deadly at the same time, while still being a freak.

The name Black Widow is named after the spider, I just thought I would make her look as much like a spider as I can. I need to draw a side view because with one of those old “big butt” dresses that girls wore at the time really makes her look like a spider (what do you call the butt of a spider? Thorax, or what? I can’t remember.)

Just another note that has nothing to do with the point that tobe90 made.
I am also designing her as if she would be a character in a game, so I gave her weapons to use. So she would be an interesting adversary in an actual game, not just some defenseless freak in a game that is based on freaks of the 1840s – 1940s.

I don’t know if that is what we are suppose to do, because the only other challenge I ever was a part of was the game icon one and the character was obviously suppose to be in a game. If its not, it should be.

ionanism
08-17-2003, 08:12 AM
Ok here is my drawing of the Black Widow, its pretty much the same as the one above but more refined and detailed.
http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/Front_01.jpg


Let me know what you like/dislike. (I really need to get a scanner)

I would like to get the design of her down by Monday, before I start to model her, I don’t want to make too many design changes to her while I model, but I probably will make a few.

I am going to work on the side view of her next, as well as some more detailed drawings of other various parts.

rAndall
08-17-2003, 06:37 PM
Looks cool man. I dig the crazy hands and Fingers. I think those could be deadly themselves.

ionanism
08-18-2003, 08:43 AM
Ok, as promised here is the side view, as well as some miscellaneous other parts.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/side_01.jpg

Here is the face.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/facedr01.jpg


This is the gas Gun combo thing that is strapped to her left arm. There is a Flamethrower, Gas-Gun (perhaps mustard), and a Glue-Gun thingy, (a hose that shoots out glue)

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/gasdraw1.jpg
Ok I know that the gas gun combo thing looks complicated and modern. I did some research on WWI weaponry, and what I got drawn here is basically the typical WWI flamethrower, but I strapped 3 of them together and made that each perform a different function.


Anyone got any last minute design criticisms before I go off and start to model her let me know.

I plan on starting to model her tomorrow. I hope I can translate this design into a 3d model with out it turning out to look nothing like the original design, but we will se how it goes.

melmann
08-18-2003, 05:02 PM
dood those are awesome! cant wait to see the model on this!
Great concept:thumbsup:

ionanism
08-18-2003, 10:11 PM
Thanks melmann.
I feel fairly confident in my modeling skills, I just hope I can texture in a cool way. We will see how it goes.

wartorn
08-18-2003, 10:34 PM
great concept dude. nice one. But i think that this is the point where people start to realize what makes a winning model, and what makes a losing one. I am not talking about modelling ability, or creativity, but rather about sticking to the rules. It is not to my knowledge that ANY sideshow freaks had any weapons with which they slaughter people. Sideshow material is just that, people that stand to be viewed with awe, with disgust, with unease. The character you start off great, but then it slowly begins to turn into the Undead version of Lara Croft. Granted youre trying to make it more interesting, but at least just keep this for your concept art. I believe the model should be completely different to what youre describing it as. I might sound harsh, or over confident of myself, but the truth is, id hate to see good ideas like this not making it in the end, because of gradual straying off track. I might be a new member to CGtalk, but ive been part of forums such as this one for a long time. Hope you consider this only as GOOD feedback towards your process..... Good luck man.:thumbsup:

ionanism
08-19-2003, 06:21 AM
I think I see your point. My idea is a bit over the top so to speak. But like I said before I am designing this as if it was actually in a game, It is a “game art challenge” I know the rules never say that this has to be an interesting “game character” but I want to design a cool and interesting character that would be usable in a game. You can go off and do your project you way, I can do it my way and the next guy can do it his way, and that is what I think what this whole site is all about, just doing work, and getting feedback on how you can improve your artistic technique, its not about competing with everyone here and giving out bad advice so you can beat the next guy.

I am not too concerned with winning or loosing anything, I just want to make cool looking work, using the rules and ideas here as a guideline for may own personal work. I am not a professional 3d artist and I am just using these challenges as a learning tool, so I can get some practical application out of what 3d knowledge I have. If my idea is over the top or if it doesn’t quite fallow the rules exactly is of no consequence to me, so be it, disqualify me then.

I do try and stay with the rule a closely as I can, I do take them seriously, they are good example of real world design constraints on the 3d technology that is driving the gamming world, if the 3d engine can only handle 512 x 512 texture maps then I will do the best I can to get the most out of the constraints. That’s how I view the rules, but that just me.

I hope that helps you understand my position on this site.

I probably will not change my design at all, and I will do my best to make a good 3d representation of this design. But like I said I am not a professional and it might not turn out right. If that happens then it will be a good learning experience in what I can or cannot yet do.

Good luck in your work



Wow that was a long answer to a little comment.

ionanism
08-19-2003, 07:37 PM
I hope my reply to wartorn didn’t come off sounding angry or defensive. I didn’t take any offence to his comment, I was just trying to explain my view of this project.

That aside here is what I got so far. Its 700 some odd tri
Just modeling the head first, because I think it will be the hardest to do, so I wanted to get it out of the way as soon as possible.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/head3d01.jpg

I not yet sure how I will do the hair I’m thinking making it in the style of Cloud from FF7, but lese spiky and not yellow, she might end up not having any hair.

melmann
08-19-2003, 10:56 PM
Awesome! Im excited to see the progress!:buttrock:

ionanism
08-19-2003, 11:05 PM
Ok... I started to do some work on the hair. And here is what I have so far:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/hair_01.jpg

I think it is way too heavy…it’s at 1600 tris at the moment. I think that I will have to chop alot of polys out of her hair, especially the middle main chunk.

Lee3dee
08-19-2003, 11:18 PM
did u try the flat plane method for hair, then use an opacity map for the texture. Ivars's model (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66960) from last months challenge used it really well....im going to do that for my clown character's hair and torn clothes. just a passing idea :)

ionanism
08-19-2003, 11:34 PM
Nope I did not try that at all, didn’t even know about. It sounds like it would work a lot better than what I have got. I remember Ivars’s model, it was really good.

Thanks for the tip…I think I will defiantly give that a try, but I don’t know how to do it, but I’m sure I can figure it out…I hope. You just bunch up a bunch of planes and then map them and then use an opacity map on them, like you would say a particle system that uses planes for particles, right.

Thanks again Hirigashi, I appreciate it.

wartorn
08-20-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by ionanism
You can go off and do your project you way, I can do it my way and the next guy can do it his way, and that is what I think what this whole site is all about, just doing work, and getting feedback on how you can improve your artistic technique, its not about competing with everyone here and giving out bad advice so you can beat the next guy.

Well, ionanism, i never said it was about competing, or winning or losing. Like you said, this site is all about geting feedback on how you can improve. That was MY feedback to you when i commented. I was NOT giving BAD advice to beat the next guy, if you meant it like that. I was only trying to help you, cause i thought you misunderstood the requirements. No attacking or insulting intended. Because as you know, you said its about getting better at modelling and all that, not winning or losing. But id like to point out the fact that a good modeller is one that can take a challenge in all its faces, meaning if an employer asks for a yellow parrot, you give him a yellow parrot, not a green owl. Thats my opinion, and i thought that pointing it out might help you become a better artist. After all, following the rules is what makes great modellers. It shows that you are up for it, and can do whatever task is asked of you. Also, please acknowledge that i was not trying to offend you in anyway, or belittle your intelligence, or anything like that..... Great model, its inspiring to see people like yourself doing a concept drawing one day, and almost half the model the next. Its a real inspiration for us all. Good luck with it man.

rAndall
08-20-2003, 01:43 AM
I think he means something that is explained in this tutorial.
http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/hair/index.html

It is a method that is used a lot. This is just one tutorial. I know I have seen many others.
Ivars on CGTalk had successfully used the method in the last Game Art Competition. It works really well on his model.

Ivars Opactiy Plane work (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66960)

Keep on Keeping on!

ionanism
08-20-2003, 04:23 AM
Wartorn:
I understand and respect your point of view on this, I welcome your feedback. I see what you mean about the challenge and doing it by the rules makes it more of a challenge, and thus making you a stronger modeler, but I just think my way would make a cooler character. I did understand what the rules asked of me I just chose to use a bit of my trusty old artistic license on them.
I didn’t mean to come off sounding mean or attacking in my response to your original post. I was just trying to explain my point of view on this and explain why I chose to do my character in the way that I have and, since I have a tendency to ramble, I got a bit carried away.

I didn’t mean I thought you were giving bad advice… it was just an example.

I mentioned the winning and loosing stuff because in you original post you mention stuff about “what makes a winning model” and sticking to the rules.
orignal quote by wartorn:
“But i think that this is the point where people start to realize what makes a winning model, and what makes a losing one. I am not talking about modelling ability, or creativity, but rather about sticking to the rules”

well enough of that… no offence was taken, and I didn’t mean to offend if I did.




And rAndall
Thanks a lot for the link to the tutorial, it will com it very handy. If you hadn’t sent me this link I probable would have had to spend some good hours on line looking for one. Thanks again.


Ok, now my WIP update

I decided to take Hirigashi's advice/suggestion and I am going to try and do some opacity plane mapping for the hair, instead of what I did earlier.

Here is what I got done on the torso…the head is not actually attached yet, because I am mirroring the torso, and the head is not symmetrical, so I cant mirror it with the torso.
Oh it weighs in at 1600 some tris
http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/torso_01.jpg

ionanism
08-20-2003, 09:51 AM
Just a quick post before I hit the sack… poly tris at 1700


http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/torso_02.jpg

ionanism
08-21-2003, 09:37 AM
Got some work on the legs done, it still needs some tweaking. I also think I made the neck to “heavy” I was trying to model those neat muscles in the neck but I probably should just paint those in.

tri count at: 2691


http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/legs_01.jpg

melmann
08-21-2003, 08:16 PM
CRAZZZZY MAN! Lookin great so far!:applause:

ionanism
08-22-2003, 05:38 AM
Here is what I have got so far:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/4shots02.jpg

I am almost done with the modeling process, but I am over by 1531 triangles and I haven’t even tried doing any of the hair yet. I think I might do some opacity map tests to see how many polys I will need to make the hair look right before I go off and optimize my mesh.

Here are just some more interesting views:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/4shots01.jpg

I think I may have just created something that will be “real fun” (insert sarcasm here) to unwrap and pack, not to mention rigging, I have no Idea how I will handle all of the cords. I was thinking of doing some soft body dynamics but I am not sure if that is allowed…looks like I got a question for the challenge issues forum.

Let me know what you think about what I have here.
I was having some problems deciding on the arm/hand sizes, They were bigger before…I know she is suppose to be a freak, but I still though they were too big, they would drop below her feet, but they are really long in my drawing. I though they looked too big so I made them smaller.

ionanism
08-24-2003, 04:22 AM
WOW that was hard… getting this thing down under 4000 tris, but I did… I had to kill off 2 of my guns, but I guess that’s ok, now it looks more like my original sketch. I really liked having all 3 of em, but too bad for me… boohoohoo.
Now I am at 3892, which gives me plenty of polys for the hair (if I decide to give her hair) I didn’t like my tests too much. Maybe it’s because I was using only one hair shape over and over.

I may even add some more poly detail if I can.

Still got a lot more work to do.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/under.jpg

tobe90
08-25-2003, 07:38 AM
I think you're doing a great job. but, IMHO, with so many extremities (things sticking out from everywhere), you really should aim at a lower level of detail, if you want to reach the polycount 4000, rahter than removing guns etc. the original concept might be lost otherwise. unfortunately, it will be harder to skin it.
but you're really close to the original idea. good job.:thumbsup:

ionanism
08-25-2003, 08:44 AM
Thanks a lot Tobe90. I appreciate it.

You don’t know how much I’ve tried to lower the detail and keep all 3 of the guns. I think I pretty much got rid of all the useless faces and detail that I can with out making her look like a stick figure, I even made the forearm only have 4 sides (I put the detail back though). I just couldn’t get her down to count while keeping all 3 guns, not without getting rid of other things that are vital to the character. It was a balancing act loose this and keep that, or loose that and keep this. I really didn’t want to lose the guns but I just had to. Getting rid of the 2 guns cut 450 some polys off my count. Getting rid of anything else didn’t add up to that much, so now I have just 1 gun.

I can’t remove the detail in her chest because…hey…she needs to look like she has a nice rack.

Like you said I just have too much stuff sticking out of her everywhere… man…why can’t I just come up with something a bit less complicated. My last character had 6 arms, 4 whip tails and horns…well…and two legs but those are normal. That was hard for me to manage my poly count too, not to mention I was basing my count in polygons and not tris throughout most of the challenge, but that’s beside the point.

Thanks for the complement and suggestion Tobe90

Maybe I could post some before and after meshes, the shots I have posted up now makes it kinda hard to see my actual mesh…we’ll see I’m busy untangling my UVWs at the moment.

Oh and whats “IMHO” mean?

giantrobot
08-25-2003, 03:42 PM
this model is INSANE!

oh, man, need to get crackin on mine :)

tobe90
08-25-2003, 08:33 PM
imho - in my humble opinion. or are you making fun of me?;)

ionanism
08-25-2003, 10:50 PM
I’m not making fun of you…I just didn’t know what IMHO meant.

ionanism
08-27-2003, 06:36 AM
Still trying to pack all of my UVWs into 2 - 512 x 512 sized maps.
I thought I was done once before, but then I started to do some basic mapping and there was way too much anti-aliasing going on, on the mesh, it looked way too blurry…I figured its because I had it all the parts scaled down too small, so I devised a was to make them bigger, and still fit in the space allowed. I hope it works.

ionanism
08-28-2003, 03:41 AM
Alright then…I finally started to do some texture work. I finally got my UVW situation under control…I think…well at least for now…I better not have to change anything.


Here is my UVW layout…at the moment…I’m pretty sure I’m not going to change it…I hope. Well later on I am going to shove some hair in any empty space I can find.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/UVW_01.jpg

You may be asking where is the dress, and some other things, well I colasped them down to a point and am going to make them just a solid color.


Here is a little render of what I have got done on the head:


http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/headtx01.jpg

ionanism
08-30-2003, 04:18 AM
Here is what I came up with for the hair:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/hair4_01.jpg

…my count is now: 3991 but without the hair it was: 3905. (I did a bit more optimization)

Part of me thinks its good and then I look at it again and think I need to redo it…I don’t know… It does capture what my drawing has with the wildness of it (the hair)….maybe I need to work on the color, it is a bit vibrant, although I am shooting for a stylized look to it, like something out of the Shinobi game (the one for the PS2 not the old arcade one). I am only using 2 different shapes for the hair, I don’t really have any space in my UVW packing for anymore.

I don’t know…I think I will work on some other parts of her mapping and see how I feel about it then…I think I am defiantly going to mess with the color of it.

Any thoughts?

baaah888
08-30-2003, 05:35 AM
Im torn on wether i like the hair, it looks good but then i really liked the head above with the cropped blue hair as part of the texture. i was thinking you should go for a shaved head but then put some sort of birth mark or tattoo under stubbly hairs. like a swazstikka or something evil.

I also likes the white skin, i thought albino or deamon you could play it how you like.

sorry this is very jumbled opinion but i like the old and new look :hmm: probably leaning to the old more tho.

keep going :)

ionanism
08-31-2003, 09:29 AM
Well thanks for the input, Bah888…I’m torn on it too, I also like the shaved head look, but I like my drawing with the hair. I was also thinking that my original concept drawings have hair and I would like to hold true to my original drawings as much as possible in an attempt to try and be as professional as I can. But I can always use the shaved head if I can’t get the hair right at all, but I didn’t want to cop out of the challenge of doing the hair and go for the easy shaved head look right away…. At least not without trying to do the hair.

Oh well…I will continue to play with the hair, and if all else fails…bye bye hair.

Here is where I am at on the texturing of her:
Its not the best shot…a lot of the detail is lost…but you will see better ones later on. I'm still working on texturing.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/front_02.jpg

Tweaked the hair just a little bit…I made it a tad darker at the roots… it seems to help a bit.

wartorn
08-31-2003, 02:02 PM
I love how she turned out ionanism. Great job. My only comment, well i have a few, but the thing is, i think she has an overall unbalance when it comes to her "feel". She looks like a mixture of various styles, all crammed into one model, and that hurts her aura. For example, her hands (the top parts) are very low poly, to the point where they are wooden 2x4's. Those could be fixed im sure, to look at least close in detail to the forearms. Also the chest is so curvy, along with the shoulders (the whole torso basically), its really great, and the legs are beautiful. But the dress that basically covers the detailed legs is too low poly. What im saying is, maybe you should try to raise the poly count on the dress, add some curvature to it, its too orthogonal, and at the same time, perhaps you can lower the detail on the legs, or even raise the opaque level of your dress's texture to hide the would-be low detailed thighs. Now i dont think the dress is a problem really, but please do something about those arms! Other than that, the model is beautiful, the face is great. The body textures are good as well, although i might have to say that the hair looks a bit cartoony compared to the rest of her, maybe more alphas could help. Other than that, its a very unique model. Wish i have thought of that! :thumbsup:

ionanism
09-01-2003, 10:00 AM
Thanks for the observations
I would love to be able to add more detail in all of the places you mentioned that need it, but I am right at my poly limit at the moment. I probably should have left some detail out of some other areas in order to keep detail in the areas you mentioned. But I didn’t really have many options for getting rid of detail in the first place…she has so much junk coming out from all over the place and the poly count adds up fast.
If I could add more detail right now, I probably wouldn’t because I already started to do my mapping, and I really don’t want to re do my UVWs. There is one place I probably will add a bit more detail to though…I’m not sure if you noticed this but, her bicep only has 4 sides to it, making it look pretty blocky. I really didn’t think anyone would notice it, there is no real detail to add to it… when I look at my drawings she has no definable muscles there…they are pretty tubular, I’m thinking I could make it a but rounder perhaps just add another side or 2 which would help, so its not so square, 5 or 6 sided maybe just cutting a poly in half shouldn’t affect anything much when it comes to my UVW layout, I hope…I’ll see when I try and do it, which should be soon.

Thanks for the suggestions.

As for the hair, I am shooting for a stylized look, I’m not quite sure if I got it right or not, still more tweaking required.

wartorn
09-01-2003, 12:31 PM
indeed ionanism, you need to do something about the top part of the arms. Now since this is a front view some people cant really tell that they are just rectangular prisms. But i have an eye for detail, and i noticed it, which is why i suggested you give them some definition, cause they look like two wooden blocks sticking out of her... This is your priority, no other part of the body is as in need of detail as the arms. They really stand out. The hair i love, no matter what the style is that youre going for... This will be a great model man. Though id like to also add that maybe you want to make some changes to the way the arms and shoulders meet. There is no blending. One is too curvy and realistic, and the other is just very thin and lacking details. I also noticed that it does not blend with the shoulder in terms of angles. The way the shoulders are positioned, i believe the arms should be pointing at a downward 45 degree angle. Otherwise, if you want the arms to be in the position they are in, then the shoulders should be rotated 45 degrees upwards. I hope that makes sense. I wouldnt worry about anything else apart from the arms, cause the rest is all well done.

ionanism
09-02-2003, 08:32 AM
I just gave the bicep part of the arm a little bit more detail…just another face…now its 5 sided, my count is 3999 now. I think I might take wartorn’s suggestion and try to add some detail to aid in the transition from shoulder to bicep…I tried to paint in a little bump, but I think I might try and model that in if I can… defiantly need to cut polys out from somewhere though. And about the arm positioning thing that wartorn pointed out… I put the arms straight just to make rigging them easier (mainly the hands and fingers), hopefully the shoulders will transition better after I rig and pose her. Anyway, here is my texture progress:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/2pick_01.jpg


I originally made this shot to ask a few questions of the home viewing audience out there. I was going to ask which one I should go with the metal one or the black one, and if the top metal one fits into the time frame, but now I think I am going to go with the bottom black one, it looks more traditional, and I think I like it better now. The metal one was the first one I made…I really liked it at the time I made it, but was thinking that it might not fit the time frame so I made a backup…so now I am going to use the back up... unless there is an overwhelming outcry to use the top one.

Since I answered my own question, I just put this up because I figured it would be interesting to all of you to see what design solutions I came up with that led to the final product.

ionanism
09-02-2003, 09:32 AM
Alright, another quick post…I just added a bit more detail to the arm…again, this time it’s more noticeable. I made a small bump on the bicep leading to the shoulders, I also made the arms 6 sided. It didn’t really mess up my UVWs as much as I though. My poly tri count is at 3995…I got rid of most the detail in the head strap…you cant see it anyway with the hair…I was only keeping it just in case I didn’t give her hair, if she had no hair I wanted to have the detail in the strap…it would have looked better that way, but with the hair they are wasted polygons.


Here it is:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/bicep_01.jpg

wartorn
09-02-2003, 03:22 PM
Muuuuuuuch better. This might frustrate you, but i have an alternative to my previous suggestion. Perhaps you can keep the arms five sided instead of six, but add more cross sections to the arms themselves, so you wont have straight arms, but you can scale out some muscle definition. The bump that you made helps, but it still bothers the eye to see such thin straight arms. If all else fails, you can try simply making the arm thicker (the bicep/tricep region). Nice work dude.

rAndall
09-02-2003, 08:58 PM
The model is looking pretty cool ionanism. You seem to be putting a lot of time and detail into it. The corset looks great. I love the skull buttons.

:thumbsup:

ionanism
09-03-2003, 09:04 AM
Thanks rAndall…its funny that you mentioned that you like the skull buttons, because I had just changed them to something else, just before reading you’re comment. I though my skulls were looking too much like little alien heads, plus there was too much UVW stretching affecting them, I also was thinking there might be an issue of authenticity with the skull button, not sure if they had those back then …I may just try and make them a bit better and change the buttons back to skulls… we’ll see how it goes, I like what I changed them to though…it looks more realistic now, but I also though the skulls were cool…its why I made them in the first place.

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/button01.jpg

Wartorn: I tried to add a bit more detail to the arm, managed to be able to add another cut down the length of the arm, by making it 5 sided (like you suggested) and by removing a bit of the detain in the ear(count right at 3999 tri). I’m not sure if the extra detail makes it look any better. There is more of a bulge, but I don’t know, I might just remove the detail…it looks kinda funky now:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/armdet01.jpg

rAndall
09-03-2003, 08:35 PM
Ok, maybe its just me but I liked the skull buttons. These work but, skull buttons. :)

ionanism
09-05-2003, 03:03 AM
Getting close to finishing up my texturing…still allot of work to do though. Here is what I did for the Boots:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/boots_01.jpg

I got some reference pictures of boots of the time period, so what I have is pretty typical of what someone could have worn back then…just a tall leather boot…minus the belts strapped around them.


anyone got any suggestions about my texturing so far?

wartorn
09-05-2003, 10:34 AM
dude, nice work! the boots look the age. But i dont think you need to lose the belts.... I mean it could be something she herself did to the boots. It wont change the fact that they're 19th century boots. They are quite stylish, but if you feel u need to back up your reason why you have belts, you can make up a story, like the boots are too big for her, or she likes to NOT let blood reach her feet, so she tied belts around her boots, or something. But dont lose them, theyre the coolest!

rAndall
09-05-2003, 09:09 PM
Yea man, Nice job on the boot textures. I'd say keep the belts. Really cool. :thumbsup:

melmann
09-05-2003, 10:02 PM
crap I wish I could texture like this!!!:applause:

ionanism
09-06-2003, 03:33 AM
Wow! thanks a lot melmann!
It’s funny that you say that because this is only the 2nd character I’ve ever unwrapped and textured before (the last cg challenge was my first).

Good, good, good…I’m gland that you like the boots, I was afraid that people would think that they where too modern looking…you know…like those buckle up boots that those Goth people wear now a days. But they are just old leather boots with belts strapped around them, because…well… that just looks cool…and my crackpot science explanation for them being there is that they are there to support her long legs, but it just looks cool. I am defiantly going to keep the belts.

Still got a bit more texturing to do, but I am almost done. I plan on making bump maps and specular maps, but I think I will rig her first before making the bump and specular, don’t want to run out of time and not be able to pose her.

ionanism
09-07-2003, 09:36 AM
Well…I think I am about done with the majority of my texturing, I don’t know what else to do with it… just a lot of little tweaking going on, darken this lighten that… nothing big. I think I might start rigging her real soon.

Have a look and tell me what you think, what more needs to be done? …I’m not sure about the skin... is it too plain / pale? …maybe bit it needs to be dirtied up a bit, I might just leave it as is.

Here are some shot, rendered with no lighting…just used the 3ds max built in 2 default viewport lights.

Head / Hair:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/heads_03.jpg

Chest and Back:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/chest_01.jpg

Corset:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/corset_01.jpg

Arms:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/arms_01.jpg


I just wanted to see if there was anything else the home viewing audience thinks needs to be done to her texture wise, before I go off and make the bump and specular. Like I said I am going to rig her before I do the bump and specular, so there will be some time before I go off and do those. I can tweak the textures all I want while I rig.

ionanism
09-07-2003, 09:37 AM
Legs:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/legs_02.jpg

Boots:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/boots_01.jpg

Here is what my texture sheets are looking like at the moment:

http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/ID_1_01.jpg http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/id_2_01.jpg

baaah888
09-07-2003, 04:07 PM
just wondering, do you use deep paint or do you just go straight into photoshop. It just i cant see any seams which is always great.

as for the model it looks great, the only thing that is puzzelling me is its meant to be turn of the centuary but she's got a flame thrower with a pressurised canister (which is a little more modern than 1900) It's not really a problem im just finding it hard to imagine her in a side show at the moment rather than out butchering people.

But i do love the modelling and texturing :thumbsup:

ionanism
09-07-2003, 10:30 PM
Thanks baaah888
No deep paint here, I just go in to Photoshop, I don’t have deep paint, so I do as much as a can to remove the seams in Photoshop, which is sometimes hard to do, but I do the best I can to remove them by hand.

As for the flamethrower thing…I’m pretty sure they had those in WWI, which was around 1913 – 1918 I’m not sure if you are disputing that fact or just the canister I have mounted on mine (by the arm), I could remove that…I don’t like my texturing of it much anyway. But it looks cool there, if I can fix its texture job. But I know they had them back then (flamethrowers)

As for being able to see her in a sideshow…In my head I am designing her to be a cool game character based on sideshow freaks from the turn of the century…but…it is a side so and, if you want to keep her in the context of a sideshow, then the flamethrower is part of her “show”…you know like an act…not all sideshow people are like caged animals for us to look at in awe and disgust. I guess she uses it as part of an act for people to watch for more shock and awe entertainment.

As for the technical accuracy of the flamethrower, the rules say that our time frame for this is 1840s – 1940s so if I really wanted I could use technology from the start of WWII.


Here are some links to cheesy sites for proof of the WWI flamethrower:

Here is a link to a site talking about German flamethrowers:
German Flamethrowers (http://www.geocities.com/histofwar/wwi.html)
That site also mentions the use of “cylinders of compressed air” (toward bottom of flamethrower part)

And here is a link to a site with some flamethrower pictures, but these are WWII ones:
Pictures (http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust11.htm)

here is some more WWI weapons information:
More Info (http://www.courseworkbank.co.uk/coursework/weapons_technology_world_war_one_1416/)

All of these links are kinda lame, but they provide a real world technical backbone to what I put in to my crazy character.

Thanks again for the comments, and crits.

side note: I think I will start to rig her to day.

edit = I Just removed a link to an oversized pdf.

baaah888
09-07-2003, 11:33 PM
:) it wasnt really crit just opinion and i wanted to see what you thought about it, i know with my work people always say stuff like he's to ugly to be a main character and i have to explain it, so just poseing the question to make sure. :thumbsup:

ionanism
09-08-2003, 08:41 AM
Its no big deal…I can relate, I usually have to explain things a lot too, but I have no problem explaining my character.
I was actually planning on making an post dedicated to that, in an attempt to give her some real world credibility and showing where I got some of my ideas for various details from…just to show that she falls with in the rules of the challenge, just incase there was anyone out there that though otherwise. But I was going to do that after I finished her. I may or may not still do it … I don’t know if I need to or not. I think I am 100% with in the bounds of the rules, but that’s just me, it’s my character so of course I would think that.


WIP info:

I boned her today (hehehe…immature chuckles at a childish pun)
Still need to rig and skin her.
Anyone got any Ideas on how I could set up the hoses so that they move when I move her arm or head?

I would prefer not having to string up a bunch of bones and pose each link by hand, maybe the proper rigging and linking of them would work fine though.

I was just thinking I could just slap a Flex modifier on it or something…would that work, or do I need to crack open something like reactor, would that even work.

I guess I will play around with it and see what I come up with.

wonder
09-10-2003, 09:35 AM
great concept,great modeling,great texture! man!
if i have to tell something i dun like,i think that's the legs,they looks too straight,man.

ionanism
09-11-2003, 09:08 AM
Thanks for the complements wonder, much appreciated …I’ll see what I can do about the legs. I am almost done with her but am still doing a lot of tweaking, I’ll just add the legs to my list of things to play with.

I finished rigging her, and I started to play around with posing her. The pose I went with is base on an early concept sketch from before I started to texture her, if anyone wants to see it let me know (the concept sketch).

Here she is posed:
http://showcase.westwood.edu/student/jklein/cg_chall/pose_01.jpg
I have a higher res shot up on the challenge site if you want a better look.

She also has bump and specular maps applied to her, If anyone has something to point out about her that doesn’t quite look right let me know, especially with my bump and speck…I’m not 100% confident in my abilities to make “proper” bump and speck maps, but I can make them so that they look just fine.

I will shortly be posting my speck and bump maps up on this site so you can see what I am doing right / wrong with them.

melmann
09-12-2003, 04:42 PM
its things like this that help me to realize I suck! This rocks!:applause:

ionanism
09-14-2003, 10:09 AM
Hey now melmann…don’t be so self deprecating… you don’t suck…your character is my favorite one here…don’t tell the others…Oh wait everyone can read this.

Optigon-cg
09-15-2003, 10:37 AM
Can't see the images. :hmm:

ionanism
09-15-2003, 08:03 PM
You know what… I can’t see them either…I think the server that my pictures are on is doing some maintenance tasks, because my website is not loading either…hopefully it will be back up soon.

ionanism
09-16-2003, 04:34 AM
Crap…you know what…I think the server my images and web site are on is down. Hopefully they will get it back up real soon… preferably before the 21st otherwise I will have to make my final submission in a whole lotta attachment.

ionanism
09-19-2003, 05:46 AM
Ok... the server that all of my stuff is on is still down and time is running out. I made another update to the challenge site, so if you want to see my character updates you will have to go there…the black widow character…by ionanism…as if you didn’t all ready know.

I made a cool character sheet, I probably will put that up on the challenge site some time before the 21st, but as of now there is a picture with 3 different poses.

Man…the 20kb attachment limit is going to make all of my posts look like rubbish. I / we still have to post our texture sheets, multiple views of our character both shaded and just wires.

Well see how it goes, still got a little bit of time left.

ionanism
09-19-2003, 06:58 AM
Ok let’s see how this works…

Here is here character sheet:

Character Sheet (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=244)

As you probably can tell I put it up on www.solarflarestudios.com

I hope that’s allowed… They have larger file limits...2MB I believe, so now my posts wont get all over optimized looking, if I was to use cgtalks built in attachments 20kb limit, everything I would post would loose all of it glorious detail.

Optigon-cg
09-19-2003, 07:59 AM
Really nice work man! :thumbsup:

ionanism
09-21-2003, 06:05 AM
All right time is up…the server that all of my images are on is still down, so you can no longer view my progress on this character, but I figured out a way to show my final images.

I have my character sheet up on the challenge site.

I also have a higher res version of it here: Character Sheet (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=244)

Here are the textures that I used. Textures (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=245)

And here are shots of here shaded and just wires. Wires (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=250)

My total triangle count is 3999...I feel like I am lying about it, because 3999 just seem so perfect…but with the hair I could push the count to the very limit.


And that’s all folks!!!

Now I have 2 character entries in the CG Challenge under my belt…fully finished on time, giving me a track record of …2 for 2…not bad if I say so myself.

--- Edit --- I forgot to do my character recap.

Character: The Black Widow:
Born with a form of Acromegaly that mostly only affecter her extremities: Arms, legs, hands, fingers. Has extra joints in her fingers, she was also born with 8 eyes that she covers up with a custom mask. She also has…ok…get this… spider veins…get it… spider…the black widow is a spider…spider veins…ha ha he he ho ho...

My goal for this CG Challenge Game Art Design Challenge was to make my character an interesting game character that one would actually see in an actual game, while staying within the rules of this challenge. That is why she has a flamethrower strapped to her arm, carries a scythe and wears a cool looking mask. Every part of her fits in with the time period (1840s – 1940s) from the wire frame of the dress of the time period to the WWI style German flamethrower. (I did my home work on all this stuff)

For the look of the character, I was going for was a stylized look to her, something like in Shinobi (the new one)…I like to think that my character would fit in whit that game nicely… perhaps replacing the giant spider boss that is in the game with my character.

If she was actually in a game I would see her using the flamethrower to shoot out a sticky glue like substance rather than fire…more like a fire hose than a flamethrower…then once she shoots you with the glue (causing you to be…well…stuck), she will cut you with the scythe. Perhaps she would also jump around a lot, bounce off the walls ext, ext, and chop at you with the scythe.

I suppose that’s enough info on the character.


My website is still down. The timing of the server going down couldn’t be worse…here I am an unemployed CG Artist (looking for work) working on a character for the cg challenge, and just as I am about to finish it, and show the world my work, the server goes down and now no one can see my website and see more of my work...but what can you do… it was all just for the fun of it anyway. (The CG Challenge)

It was a real fun project to work on…I truly enjoyed every minute of it…I will defiantly be coming back for more.

Don’t forget to view my work on this character via the links above.

ionanism
09-21-2003, 06:36 AM
OK here are just some additional little bits.

Here are just some additional texture details in…well… a little more detail. Details (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=248)

Here are her 3 poses…they are the same as the ones in the character sheet, but they are easier to see in this shot. 3 poses (http://www.solarflarestudios.com/forum/download.php?id=249)

speveo
09-21-2003, 03:04 PM
This is one of the most freaky/bizzare characters I have seen in a while. :eek: I love the "stripper pole" pose. :twisted:

Cheers

Speve-O

mindrot
09-21-2003, 08:05 PM
Took a a look at your layout on the CGChallenge site.... very impressive... really has that freakshow/carnival quality to it....

Good luck man :thumbsup:

ionanism
09-22-2003, 02:37 AM
Thanks Speve-O and Mindrot…you two probably have the best looking entries here…it’s no wonder that you both have jobs in the industry.

I love the "stripper pole" pose. Speve-O… ha ha yeah… I like the stripper pole pose too…that’s exactly how I named the files of it too…the “stripper pose” I think that pose establishes the sexy part of the character.




Took a a look at your layout on the CGChallenge site.... very impressive... really has that freakshow/carnival quality to it....Mindrot…I’m glad you like my character sheet…that’s exactly what I was trying to do when designing it…I was trying to capture the old sideshow poster look.

muckywetnoodle
09-22-2003, 04:28 AM
Nice work and cool ccncept!

I don't think the sickle goes well with her though, or a bit out of place.

Frank Dodd
09-24-2003, 08:09 PM
Excellent piece of work, initially when I saw the sketches I thought "That is going to be a tough model to finish" but obviously you did and with great technical execution and class too. An awesomely freakish character.

ionanism
09-25-2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Frank Dodd
Excellent piece of work, initially when I saw the sketches I thought "That is going to be a tough model to finish" but obviously you did and with great technical execution and class too. An awesomely freakish character. Thanks Frank, I am really proud of this character, I’m glad you think I did a good job on it. A concern of mine when I first came up with her was that I wasn’t sure if I could do my drawings justice, but I new I could do it if I tried. I tried to stick to my sketches as closely as possible, without copping out on anything. She actually turned out better than I expected, I wasn’t sure if I could achieve the look I was going for, but I think I did. I also wasn’t sure if I could finish her in time, but I actually finished a bit early, so I spent a little more time making my character sheets look cooler. All in all she was a very fun character to work on.

Thanks for your kind words.

Originally posted by muckywetnoodle
I don't think the sickle goes well with her though, or a bit out of place.Muckywetnoodle Thanks for the complements.
You don’t think the sickle goes well? I thought it would make for a good weapon to someone who is taller than everyone…good to cut at things below her. (I was keeping the idea that she should be an actual game character in mind)

I was debating over what size to make it though… I wasn’t sure if it should be actually sized but small to her, so it would look like a golf club or a cane in size or larger for her so it would look like the size of an actual sickle to her…I obviously went larger. Maybe if I made it smaller it would fit better, and make her look larger in the process. (She is suppose to be abnormally tall, but with out anything to compare her to, she just kinda looks a normally tall)

Thanks for the complements and crits… btw where were you earlier when I was still working on her…anyway… thanks.

Konstruct
09-29-2003, 03:37 AM
wow man.- you have so much skill its nutz.

the inital sketches arent much to write home about, but the model, and especially the textures, are rediculiously good.

maybe its the fact that this was a really strong concept to begin with that makes it so damn good---

I wouldnt change anything, and its probably too late at this point, but the dress would look a lot better if the transparent stuff was replaces by some really knarly transparent cloth with lace edges.

your done, but just a thought

:wavey:

ionanism
09-29-2003, 10:22 PM
Wow, thanks a lot Konstruct for the colorful complements.

That’s a good idea you got there.

Initially I did want the transparent part of the dress to have some more texture to it (while still being transparent), maybe some blood stains scattered all over. But when it came time to lay out my UVs the dress just took up too much space (even if I just did 1/8 of it and mirrored the rest on that), the dress pushed all the other parts down in size making the pixels bigger which made everything look like crap, so I scraped that idea. If it was up to me I would have added a 3rd 512 x 512 map or kicked the size up to 1024 x 1024, then I could have included some design in the dress but the size was 512 x 512 and at that size and I think I did a good job getting the most out of 2 maps that small.

Thanks again for you enthusiastic words, they are much appreciated.

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