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applejacks
11-04-2009, 01:22 AM
So basically I've had an interest in 3D for a long time. And I was going to go to Full Sail Online, but after talking to my advisor, I was told that I shouldn't be in 3D?

I've played with 3D programs and I've made stuff, but the problem is my drawing skills aren't that great. And I was told that without good drawing skills, I'd fail in the 3D industry.

Is this true? Are drawing skills really that important in the 3D industry? I don't know what to do, since 3D was the only thing in college that I would be interested in. Should I take my chances and try the course anyways? Or would I be better off finding something else?

I know in the end it's my decision, but I really need a professional's insight as to what it's really like to have a 3D job.

My main interest was the creation of 3D models, not really so much the animation and texturing.

MahdiF
11-04-2009, 08:38 PM
If you loved something and worked hard on it you'll definitely success in it. you just have to work hard on your skills and never give up.
cheers.

Jettatore
11-05-2009, 04:21 AM
If you approach things with a technical mindset there are things in 3D you can succeed at without sound drawing skills, however good drawing is the foundation for many tasks in CG related work. However, if the school insists this is your case, and that you will fail because of this, I would demand my money back, in full, and use their words against them. They can't in one breath, take you in as a new student, and then in the next, once they've secured your payment, tell you that your not cut out or ready to finish the program and succeed. Best of luck, that sounds like a crap situation they put you in.

Stankluv
11-05-2009, 10:20 AM
do some modeling tutorials...if you want to know if you are a good modeler, do some modeling.

Don't worry at all about the drawing thing. I had a bad ass supervisor who made it a point to bring up that he was a very bad drawer.

leigh
11-05-2009, 10:27 AM
My main interest was the creation of 3D models

In this case, you probably should learn to draw. You won't necessarily fail if you can't, but you're likely to do better if you can. While it's true that there are many parts of 3D production that don't require drawing skills (such as lighting, rendering, and whatnot), modelling is one of the tasks that requires an artistic eye if you really want to excel. Added to that, more and more studios are asking to see traditional work along with people's showreels these days. I guess it's a way of separating the button pushers from the artists. Every single one of the best modellers I know is also good at drawing.

spindraft
11-06-2009, 04:41 PM
In this case, you probably should learn to draw. You won't necessarily fail if you can't, but you're likely to do better if you can. While it's true that there are many parts of 3D production that don't require drawing skills (such as lighting, rendering, and whatnot), modelling is one of the tasks that requires an artistic eye if you really want to excel.

I think this is kinda the core of the argument. A person doesn't neccissarily have to have the great hand/eye coordination associated w/ drawing well to have an "artistic eye". And it's the eye for it (in combination w/ using your tools to execute an idea) that is the important part. Granted, drawing is a great way to develop "an artistic eye", but w/ all the tools available today it isn't the sole path of development for the skill.

Additionally, and some may argue otherwise, some people (the lucky ones) just kind of 'get it' intuitively, wether they can draw worth a crap or not.

PhilipeaNguyen
11-06-2009, 06:16 PM
I think two different things about this. A.) Yeah, knowing how to draw can help. B.) Knowing "How" to draw really isn't going to help, because it's about your personal taste and whether the results of your taste "Looks Cool", especially with character stuff, which is just not real easy to nail down other than to say that it has to be striking at first glance. Sure you can understand the mechanics of how to draw anatomy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that what you can draw is going to "Look Cool."

The best advice I can give is to start drawing, but focus on attempting to mimic the characters that made/make you pursue this until you have a decent grasp of the things that at least you think looks cool about them. You can eventually move that into your own stuff in 3D. It's trickier to try do this in 3D first, because the reference stuff you will look at will probably be 2D and you have no idea what the sides you're not seeing should look like.

NMCDerek
11-06-2009, 08:35 PM
So basically I've had an interest in 3D for a long time. And I was going to go to Full Sail Online, but after talking to my advisor, I was told that I shouldn't be in 3D?

I've played with 3D programs and I've made stuff, but the problem is my drawing skills aren't that great. And I was told that without good drawing skills, I'd fail in the 3D industry.

Is this true? Are drawing skills really that important in the 3D industry? I don't know what to do, since 3D was the only thing in college that I would be interested in. Should I take my chances and try the course anyways? Or would I be better off finding something else?

I know in the end it's my decision, but I really need a professional's insight as to what it's really like to have a 3D job.

My main interest was the creation of 3D models, not really so much the animation and texturing.That's why I'm going to nmc for drawing for 2 years ( 2 semesters before I go to school at Gnomon

School of Visual Effects!, or full sail, My drawing is ok but it can be better "a LOT BETTER"


just go to collage and get your drawing on par like I am doing.

grantmoore3d
11-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Don't ever let someone tell you you shouldn't do something if you are interested in it. I listened to an "advisor" once and wasted several years of my life doing something I wasn't interested in, it's not fun. Take the advice of the people on this forum, practice and work hard and you'll get to where you want eventually. Good luck!

Paul McLaughlin
11-06-2009, 10:06 PM
people tell me I'm worthless on a daily basis... just keep on trucking and learn how to draw :thumbsup:

earlyworm
11-06-2009, 11:04 PM
While drawing skills are certainly helpful in the CG industry, it is possible to get by without them. I've worked as a digital modeller and a lack of drawing skills has never presented itself as an issue - my skills are much more photographic and technical than they are artistic (drawing, painting, sculpture, etc).

There is a fairly entertaining TED talk given by Adam Savage that might provide some inspiration. In particularly the point he makes about not being a sculptor...

http://www.ted.com/talks/adam_savage_s_obsessions.html

OddBall85
11-06-2009, 11:33 PM
The day you give up is the day you will fail. If you believe this is what you want to do and this is what inspires you then don't give up. That simple.

I am 24 years old and I all ready graduated from college. I do not right now work in the 3D industry as a modeler but I know I want to. I have not given up on my dreams because they are what I know I want to do. I some times feel like I have failed at my age but know that if I truly give up then I have failed.

Long story short lad DON'T give up on something you want to do in your life.

Keep learning the technical skills in drawing as all ready mentioned. Study how things move and why they move that way to assist in your animation process. Learn the software and touch all the buttons figuring out what they do and why they would be used to do that.

unitzer07
11-07-2009, 12:08 AM
first of all, DONT GO TO FULLSAIL. that place is pretty worthless. I have a few friends who went there and it's basically a cg artist factory, they work you to the bone and then throw you out with no preparation. I would recommend doing some research into other schools possibly a 4 year institution with a good reputation where you can cover your basic courses (in your case drawing) as well as your focus of 3d.

last thing

never let anyone tell you you would fail. if you let other people make your decisions for you then you'll never end up doing anything you want. Use it as ammunition and fuel to feed your desire to prove them wrong. It might not be in the right spirit, but people telling me I would fail helped me to teach myself cg, now I have an industry job that I can be proud of.

remember, success is the best revenge. when you try and go to a school where they hire former students that just graduated, you have to wonder about the value of thier program...

dont ask for it, go out and take it on your own...do that and you'll succeed.

ps im sure there are plenty of students who come out of fullsail and do great in the industry, but im not talking about the advanced few, but the ones that need a bit more time and attention to truly fulfill their potential. to those people their time is wasted at a place like fullsail.

DoctorMonkeyFist
11-07-2009, 01:04 AM
Drawing isn't super important but it helps. Its more like a tool. If you can learn art fundamentals without drawing you'll do fine. I know plenty of terrific modelers that cant draw.

robcat2075
11-09-2009, 05:33 PM
What's stopping you from learning to draw?

It's not a magical art, not at the level that a commercial artist like a CG artist is typically needed to do.

Drawing isn't something you're born with. You learn it. It's a craft with steps and building blocks and do's and don'ts... all of which are teachable and learnable.

Go to your local community college and take their drawing sequence. It's cheap and you or your parents are already paying taxes to subsidize it anyway so you might as well get some of that value back.

If you're the sort of person who learns new things from books I'd recommend Betty Edwards' "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". You have to actually do the exercises.

Or better yet take a drawing class based on that book if you find one offered.


Be wary of for-profit art schools. The graduation rate and placement rate of all art schools is low, but you pay mucho extra for that privilege at the for-profit institutions.

MechanicalSiren
11-14-2009, 04:06 AM
I'm actually a current student at full sail, and I remember them saying all that stuff when I was looking at the school that said you have to be really good at drawing to succeed there. First off, they don't require a portfolio to get in, so obviously they aren't that concerned with how good an artist you are, no matter what they claim.

In fact, some of the worst artists there seem to succeed better than most just because it is such a technical school. You don't earn a BA, it's a BS, and they only have 2 pure art classes (although classes change from month to month, depending on when you start), so your grades won't be affected much if you can't draw all that well. And yes, as the previous poster said, they do work you to the bone.

It's a 24 hour school, and they really mean that when they say it. I've slept there before, as have most of the other CA students. We do have a nice lounge though with a long padded bench that makes a great place for naps :) I think that for some, Full Sail can be a great school and a great learning experience.

Personally though, I do wish I had chosen a four year school instead. I'm a bit of a slow learner and I also love art, so I think I would have done better at a different school that has more of an emphasis on the art side of things and gave you more time to be creative with what you learn.

The main thing that attracted me to full sail was the degree in two years. I'm older than most students (I'm 27), so I really liked the idea of earning a degree fast so that I could start working sooner. I'm almost done with the program now and I feel burned out mostly because I do like art and being creative, but full sail is more about learning the technical knowledge as fast as possible. This school really is good for the technically minded, so if you had an easy time when you were playing with 3D programs, this might be a good place for you.

Personally, I found Maya incredibly difficult in the beginning, but now I feel like I've lived within it for so long that it's seeped into my blood or something... I have these maya dreams where maya is a massive computer that can think for itself and has a female vocie that talks to me and it creates these fantastic, fully alive creatures that are sometimes good and sometimes bad... yeah, so I think full sail may be driving me a little crazy :)

Anyways, I think now that the technical stuff is almost second nature and I can concentrate more on art once I graduate. I think I'll feel better about full sail in a couple of months when I get to finally start working on my demo reel too :)

The main point of this long rant is that if you can't draw and are more technically minded, full sail may actually be the best place for you. Other schools would probably penalize you grade wise if you're not all that great at drawing. And personally, I think modeling and drawing are two different skills anyways and they don't necessarily have to be completely interconnected... sculpting isn't drawing or painting.

Although practicing your drawing skills can't do anything but help :) If you want to do character/organic modeling, you'll have to study anatomy anyways so you could just get an anatomy book and practice drawing stuff out of there :)

Good luck!

bstout
11-16-2009, 02:56 AM
my former boss was told by his college faculty that he would fail. he now heads the CG department of a small commercial production company.

i am working on my drawing but know it still sucks. yet i managed to do pretty well freelancing for years. (i never drew anything)

what are your strengths? maximize them and you will succeed.

dax3d
11-18-2009, 08:25 PM
I went to Full Sail as well. I was interested in compositing and FX..used to be big into drawing but over time it faded due to whatever. We had an instructor who said none of us would "make it to an ILM" or that level. Well there were 50 of us, and only a few of us made it to that level. I'm a cloth/hair TD now which I don't use much of the drawing ;) but I WOULD suggest looking at a four year school for the reasons others have given.

It is great to have a fall back, and to be more well-rounded in general. Even if you are in this business it's just good to have knowledge of a variety of subjects.

If you want to be a modeler I would listen to the previous posts and start drawing. Modeling is very competitive, and so artistic, you'd be hurting yourself if you didn't try and improve in every way possible.

As far as someone telling you (what did they say the reason was specifically?), you could always use that as fuel to further motivate you...worked for me.

_vine_
11-20-2009, 05:39 PM
My thoughts in general about any art education, whether it be Full Sail, an Art Institute, 4 year college or university, etc., is that you will get out of it what you put into it. I went to the Art Institute of Fort Lauderale. During my time there, I knew a person who literally did not know how to turn on a computer when he began turn into an awesome animator because he put tons of time into learning the skills. He now works for Pixar and fully deserves his position there. I put my heart and soul into my traditional and digital skills and am the lead character artist at my current employer. I also saw people with amazing skills in school never graduate or find a job because they weren't willing to dedicate themselves to it.

If you feel your drawing skills need some work, then just grab and pencil and have at it. Post your stuff and tons of industry people are viewing all of the major CG forums daily and will give you tons of advice for free. Also, many colleges will allow a person to "audit" basic drawing courses. Even check out local community centers in your town, many have drawing classes taught by local artists and teachers.

An honest fact is that some people will never develop the talent or drive to succeed in the art industry, but you will never know if you have what it takes until you jump in full force and try it. The worst thing that can happen is you have an educational life experience.

paulmcg1
11-20-2009, 06:11 PM
That advisor should find a new job and stop advising people. They don't know how to do it. Drawing might help but if you want to be a animator, you don't need to know how to draw. Unless of course you want to be a 2d animator. However, if creating 3d digital content is what you want to do, then do that! Forget what nonsense your advisor tells you. Tell them that your staying in 3d but you recommend them to find a new job rather. ;) That's just ridiculous

leigh
11-20-2009, 06:12 PM
I love the way everyone is still replying to this guy who never bothered to come back. In fact, according to the database, he's never returned since posting, so every single one of these replies has been a waste of everyone's time.

Yay.

:/

Bucket
11-20-2009, 06:30 PM
And locked... err.. now..... now.... uhm...... now?

dax3d
11-20-2009, 08:07 PM
Still good advice for others, no?

Iaenic
11-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Don't worry, it's not a waste. The advice is applicable to others like me and I will certainly take something away from the thread. I started with motion graphics and compositing and am just starting to enter more into the 3D realm (Modelling in particular). Reading this gives me encouragement that I can take it to the next level if I revisit those drawing skills I never built up in the beginning and just keep pushing for those goals. Thanks all!

stooch
11-20-2009, 10:27 PM
play him off, keyboard cat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQU8iRl1Ofs&feature=player_embedded

SphinxFX
11-21-2009, 01:12 AM
I'd have to say don't listen to anyone but yourself. If this is something you are seriously passionate about you will do what it takes to get to your goal. Take some art classes if you're really concerned about your 2D skills, most but not all the times you work off of someone elses concept and build from reference anyway, your going to school to be a 3D artist not a 2D. If you have the drive and ambition it shouldn't really matter what another says, if it's what you want then take it! ;) I don't know maybe it just me.

dotts05
11-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Hi All,

I'm not the guy who started this thread but I'm finding it very helpful as I'm now at a crossroad in my life. I'm glad this topic came up because it was something I've always wondered about as well.

The responses to this thread have been very encouraging to me. Pls dont think it has gone to waste :)

sutterkain
11-23-2009, 12:57 AM
I believe the advisor was talking to a potential student who has not officially enrolled into their school. There is a difference between breaking someone's spirit/crushing their dreams and giving them a reality check so they don't waste their time and money on a degree that they are not prepared for yet. Full Sail recommends having strong drawing skills before entering their Computer Animation program and to take some foundation courses ahead of time so that you can succeed in a fast paced course (on-campus course is really fast paced). If they were only there to enroll and take his money... they would have not cared about his level of drawing skills and enrolled him without a care for his success.

I am going through enrollment at Full Sail for computer animation and am having the same discussion with my advisor. At my request, they are reviewing some of my sketches and taking into consideration what I want to do with the skills learned there and what my level of drawing is. Why spend thousands of dollars for an education if you aren't ready? I don't plan on going just by what they say, I am having other professional artists give me feedback.

I posted this, because I think there is a misunderstanding on why they told this guy this...

This wasn't a wasted thread either. Much of this feedback is good info

vsions
11-23-2009, 01:55 AM
Well I personally started in 3d without ever knowing how to draw. I ended up teaching myself 3d and never really got into drawing. Over time though I found myself more interested in learning to draw and have been doing so to the point that at least now I can draw even if not as well as I model. Ive been a 3d artist succesfully for some time without knowing how to draw. I do think however that drawing is a useful skill to have and will indeed improve you overall. So I dont think drawing is necesary but it is advisable to learn it. Besides, I know a couple of people that sculpt in clay amazingly but suck at drawing. Art uses many mediums, a pencil is just one of them. Only way you will fail is if you give up.

sutterkain
11-23-2009, 02:34 AM
I agree Vsions. I think it's wrong for someone to predict an others failure in art/design based on whether or not they can draw. I taught myself moiton graphics in Photoshop and After Effects and had someone tell me not to quit my day job... now (a few years later) I work in the field professionally and do well at it! Since I have decided to pursue enhancing my skill-set with 3D design and animation I have had one school tell me that my drawing skills are a failure and I couldn't move forward into their animation program. I have been drawing religiously everyday since with great improvements. I refuse to give up. People from that school can go pee in the wind ;)

I will say, compared to the school mention above, the staff at Full Sail have been very helpful without being pushy in making my decision to go there!

jakeh14
11-23-2009, 04:00 AM
The unfortunate reality is that professors in popular degrees have to weed out the people who just aren't going to succeed. The other unfortunate reality is that many professors respond to this need by being jerks and telling people they won't succeed. This is probably due to the fact that they either A) Don't want to bother taking the extra time working with students who need it or B) Want to light a fire under your ass.

IMO, a basic understanding of drawing is very important. This helps you set up essential artistic skills (proportions, perspective and the like), but is also quite handy in the concept stage of any project. I liken a concept sketch to an outline: yes, you could write your paper from the head, but chances are good that you'll develop a better paper if you flesh it out beforehand.

Don't be scared of drawing. A great teacher of mine once said "If you can move a pencil around without poking yourself in the eye, you can draw." You don't need to be the next friggin' Michaelangelo. In fact, most concept sketches will be handed to a concept artist for final renderings anyways.

Don't give up, man. Skill means nothing if you don't have the heart!

Romanthony
11-23-2009, 08:29 AM
The unfortunate reality is that professors in popular degrees have to weed out the people who just aren't going to succeed. The other unfortunate reality is that many professors respond to this need by being jerks and telling people they won't succeed. This is probably due to the fact that they either A) Don't want to bother taking the extra time working with students who need it or B) Want to light a fire under your ass.

Maybe that's useful for testing students to see which ones are actually going to go the distance, despite the setbacks. The ones who will really succeed are the ones who go for it no matter what their teacher tells them. I guess they want to spend more of their time with those types of students. Then again, maybe they're not that smart.

ndeboar
11-23-2009, 11:10 AM
I can't draw. At all. Like, not even a circle. Doesnt seem to affect my modeling skills. Ive managed to get by no probs.

Not to talk down the importance of drawing, i do try and work on it.

CADster
11-25-2009, 08:41 PM
it really depends on what kind of 3D work you want to do.

if your model expertise is with objects... tanks, planes, cars, etc.
all of these things require you to see the details and to have
an 'eye' for details but none of it requires the ability to draw.

i think the person who said you need to draw thinks the only things
3d modelers do is dragons, wizards and busty babes.

being artistic and being able to draw helps greatly with creative modeling
but will have little effect on your ability to model a skyscraper for a commercial
or a soap box/lotion bottle that will be dancing in a program (for example).

modeling has more to do with having a good grasp and good foundation in
efficient poly structure, poly use, correct proportions and being able to
show the details without having to draw every bolt, then creative skills in
drawing alternate realities IMO.

now im only taking about making the base model(s) that modellers do.
not rendering, lighting, texture work, animation or story telling.

and im not saying to not try and learn to draw better. of course it will
help. its a skill and one that take practice to get good at.

i use to draw all the time. but i bet i aint picked up a pencil and sketched
anything or something from my imagination in years.

my 2 cents...

vitor
11-26-2009, 08:14 PM
You talk about drawing as it is something you are born with. If you suck at drawing, then learn how to draw. buy a few pieces of paper and pencil, get a few books and start learning, practise daily and for sure you'll get there.


and while drawing is undoubtedly important for modelling it is not necessary. If you are good drawer you already have a good sense of scale, proportions, volumes and shapes, lightning and so on... but you can learn that also directed to modelling with no need to go through drawing. But of course learning to draw won't hurt, and you really should learn a bit of it.

leigh
11-26-2009, 10:35 PM
i think the person who said you need to draw thinks the only things
3d modelers do is dragons, wizards and busty babes.

As one of the people who said you should be able to draw, I can assure you that ten years working in this industry in some of the biggest VFX studios in the world means I kinda know a thing or two about what 3D modelers do.

While I agree that hot drawing skills may not be essential for many types of hard surface modelling, comments like the above don't really help anyone.

BigPixolin
11-26-2009, 11:37 PM
I think it is foolish to tell somebody they need to know how to draw to know how to 3d work.
I can't draw worth a damn but I can do anything needed in 3d, including sculpting and painting models.
Maybe I would be able to draw if my pencil was on steroids like 3d tools and it had laser accuracy with lazy mouse like features or any of the millions of other highly accurate enhancements it has over drawing.
The fact is: it is different for everybody and you do not need to know how to draw to do 3d work period. It can help just as any other skill but it is not a sink or swim situation.

Per-Anders
11-27-2009, 04:17 AM
It might sound melodramatic of the teacher, but at the same time it may be a quite fair and logical assessment, the drawing is just the example, it's more of an endemic issue of commitment.

How dedicated are you to this dream? If you're not dedicated enough to apply yourself and learn all the basic skills you're going to need to get a job or even to do what you want to do well then yes, you're going to fail... at that.

Doesn't mean you wont be a success in life though.

It's just that this is common sense, imagine if someone told you that they wanted to win the lottery but they never bought a ticket and have no interest in the buying ticket process, well, It's the same deal. If you want to be a great modeler then you have to apply yourself and build up the skill-set required in order to do that. It's hard to do after you hear that sort of thing, but if you really want to do this then you need to have a positive mental attitude about everything you're going to attempt to cram into your noggin, no "I can't do this" stuff, open yourself up to the possibility that you might succeed in any field, including drawing, and then work bloody hard till you do.

leigh
11-27-2009, 10:00 AM
The fact is: it is different for everybody and you do not need to know how to draw to do 3d work period. It can help just as any other skill but it is not a sink or swim situation.

No-one here is saying it is a sink or swim situation. But if you are good at drawing, your CG work will be better. All the best CG artists I know are great traditional artists too. Fact. And another fact is that more and more studios are asking to see traditional portfolios in applicants too - the studio I work at even has a weekly drawing class for us, because they feel it is that important. While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.

I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.

Aneks
11-27-2009, 05:28 PM
I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.

QFA. One of the best Illustrators I have ever met was Korean. He told me that when he went to school drawing was like mathematics or playing an instrument. It can be taught, practiced and learned. You may never be a great artist but even someone without any 'talent' or 'aptitude' can become a very competant illustrator if they are prepared to devote some time and effort.

I know some very experienced 3d modellers who couldnt draw to save their lives and can make amazing organic and hard surface models..

jakeh14
11-27-2009, 06:27 PM
While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.

I totally agree with this. It's kind of like the difference between a university and a technical school. At a technical school, you'll learn everything you need to know about one specific thing (3ds Max in this case). However, university will teach you why the thing is important, how to use it creatively, where it came from, its many applications, and even a bunch of stuff you don't think is important (until you actually USE that info in the real world).

So yes, if all you want to do is be a 3d modeler, you don't need drawing. But if you want to become something more than a cog (like perhaps a creative director, designer, producer, writer, et. al.), then you'll need a whole hell of a lot more than drawing at your disposal.

There is nothing wrong with going either direction, mind you. Different goals require different skill sets.

vsions
11-28-2009, 12:24 AM
No-one here is saying it is a sink or swim situation. But if you are good at drawing, your CG work will be better. All the best CG artists I know are great traditional artists too. Fact. And another fact is that more and more studios are asking to see traditional portfolios in applicants too - the studio I work at even has a weekly drawing class for us, because they feel it is that important. While I would consider much of CG production work to be more of a craft than an art, an artistic skillset nevertheless helps tremendously, and more and more studios are opting for the artistic types over the button pushers.

I also think far too many people shroud drawing in this aura of mystery. Most people can learn to draw if they just put in the effort.

I completely agree. When I started doing 3D I did pretty well, but I didnt know how to draw. I ended up learning how to draw and while I dont draw fantastically, I have noticed a huge growth in my 3D and composition in general.

Dualhammers
11-30-2009, 11:28 PM
It's all about how much you are willing to put in. If you love it enough to fight for it then you will succeed. The worst thing you can do is look to other artists and say "I'm growing as fast as them so I must be failing." You are you, and your art is going to be yours. Fast or slow if you try hard it will be something unique.

That being said, it isn't all idealistic roses. It can be pretty damn hard work to make it, but if you love it than that will show in your work. Just don't give up because someone tells you that you won't make it. No one can predict your future.

CADster
12-01-2009, 10:37 PM
^welll said and i agree.


As one of the people who said you should be able to draw, I can assure you that ten years working in this industry in some of the biggest VFX studios in the world means I kinda know a thing or two about what 3D modelers do.

While I agree that hot drawing skills may not be essential for many types of hard surface modelling, comments like the above don't really help anyone.


:surprised

an experience joust ?

ill see your decade of experience and raise you with an additional 13 years. i have 23 years professional modeling experience. i was drawing aircraft parts for Boeing with ink on vellum in the mid 80s before computers trickled down to the workforce. my first computer 2D model was done in Autocad 2.6. i have over 15 years experience using Autocad/MD alone.

read my whole reply and quote accordingly instead of quoting only a sound bite of what you disagree with please. you took what i posted out of context by snipping it.

entertainment is not the only field where a 3D skill set is needed or used but it is one of the only ones that uses artistic talent as a measure of skill, that was my point. the OP said 3D industry, not 3D art position for the game industry.

far more modeling positions and careers deal with the analytical side of objects then the creative side. these positions have nothing (or very little) to do with art or creativity.

computer simulation (for example) has nothing to do with visualization but everything to do with extracting numbers from dead accurate 3D content. its a 'just the facts' mentality instead of the 'dazzle them with eye candy' mentality you work in and ive worked in (i have experience in game development and hollywood movies as well as defense system simulation).

leigh
12-01-2009, 11:21 PM
an experience joust ?


Uh, I think you totally missed my point. Your earlier post insinuated that anyone saying you need to draw didn't know what they were talking about. I am merely clarifying that I am speaking from experience. Which is pretty much exactly what I said in my post, but if you're so determined to read it as some kind of chest-beating challenge, go ahead. Just don't make silly comments about "people thinking that all 3D modellers do is model dragons" and expect no-one to respond to it.

ill see your decade of experience and raise you with an additional 13 years. i have 23 years professional modeling experience.

Strange then that the resume on your website says you've only been modelling for 12 years:

Computer Skills:
12 years total experience using the following software : 3D Studio MAX, AutoCad/Mechanical Desktop, LightWave, MicroStation, Unigraphics, SolidWorks, PowerAnimator, Studio.

Not that I want to nitpick or anything. But if you're going to turn this into an e-peen contest, then make up your mind. Unless you're talking about actual physical modelling? In which case, that's an entirely different medium, and, oddly enough, one I'd say that drawing skills are also quite important for.

far more modeling positions and careers deal with the analytical side of objects then the creative side. these positions have nothing (or very little) to do with art or creativity.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. As far as 3D modeller positions go, the vast majority of jobs would be in the games, TV/broadcast, web and film industries. CAD is something I'd regard as an entirely separate discipline altogether. Considering the guy who posted this thread is going to Full Sail, I think it's a fair bet that he's wanting to head into one of these fields.

nickmarshallvfx
12-02-2009, 06:56 AM
I dont understand why you cant just learn to draw? Might take a few years practice until you are comfortable, but thats fine, right?

And dont let honest truth make you give up, let it make you prepare. 3 years ago, when i was in my first year of uni, some incredibly experienced artists came in to give a talk. They very honestly told us that in truth the odds were that only 5% of us in the room would find work in the vfx industry. You have to just take thar as a challenge and make sure you work hard to be the best you can be. I now work for those same people.

So keep your chin up and work your arse off until you can draw and model like a pro. Then go and prove your tutor wrong! :)

Nick

CADster
12-02-2009, 04:42 PM
Sorry, but I totally disagree. As far as 3D modeller positions go, the vast majority of jobs would be in the games, TV/broadcast, web and film industries. CAD is something I'd regard as an entirely separate discipline altogether. Considering the guy who posted this thread is going to Full Sail, I think it's a fair bet that he's wanting to head into one of these fields.

fair enough. i took your 10 years as a jab at me, sorry. your reply sounded like you being a ten year veteran was telling some kid fresh out of class they did not know what they were talking about. it happens, several here dont have the experience to back up what they debate. i would not say i was one of them and i spouted some credentials to prove it

my first post did explain that i see a difference between creative modeling and production modeling. so while doing your rendition of a dragon would require traditional art skills, especially with concept sketches, texturing and rendering. modeling the latest battery pak drill for a commercial or a pro-mo flyer would not IMO.

that is my site but its not been updated for 6 or so years. i lost interest in it
so its pretty much an abandoned place.
i no longer work at global. i left them in 2005 and went to NGC.

my 23 years deals with total modeling experience (i started in 1987, thats where the 23 number came from). computer modeling comprises only the back half of my work experience. experience in game/movie/tv would total only 3 years or so.

i guess i wanted to explain that a career in modeling does not mean you
must work in games, movies or TV.

the OP said this -

I've played with 3D programs and I've made stuff, but the problem is my drawing skills aren't that great. And I was told that without good drawing skills, I'd fail in the 3D industry.

this is what i disagree with.

while he may go to full sail and want to peruse a career in game/movie/tv. that
is a small piece of the modeling career pie IMO.

its like saying you want to fly but only in fighter planes. thats a limited field to
build a career in and a very competitive arena to get into. you will stand a much better
chance of having a flying career if you expand and look into all forms of flying.

you honestly may not be good enough or have the skills to fly a JSF or raptor. this does not mean you should go into insurance. flying a cargo plane or a commuter will give you a good paying career that enables you to still 'fly' if your heart is set on flying.

this was the advice i was trying to give.
i guess we just disagree on what modeling is.

dax3d
12-02-2009, 05:57 PM
Having gone to Full Sail, and like I mentioned had a teacher or so tell us we wouldn't make it to the big shops in film..well I think a certain kind of discouragement coming from the institution is pretty wrong. I personally used it as motivation, but it can be damaging to some students even if trying to help.

Trying to be realistic with people up front before spending that kind of money (expensive school) is great, but maybe could have been worded differently. Tell them it's hard, brutal hours, so forth. But I haven't really been known to draw (yes, very artistic before school) and I seem to be doing ok. I do think it's important, and definitely for modeling, but that's not all the 3d industry is. When I was in school I was into compositing and fx. Yes, being artistic is important, but no I'm not drawing too much with my particle sims.

We had a class of about 50, and yes I think all of us wanted to be in film and games. But I think it would have been great for exposure to the other parts of the 3d industry (medical illustration is huge, no?), because I think out of that 50, 3 of us are in film or games.

Maybe it's a fine line between being realistic vs. discouraging.

Either way, if the OP or any aspiring students want it bad enough, work your butts off. Very competitive industry as I think everyone has mentioned, and you always want to try and improve.

JakeJK
12-02-2009, 06:06 PM
I have modeled for 5 years now, and the biggest boost I got in modelling was when I took a 5 month intense figure drawing class and didn't touched the computer at all.

Sreames
12-02-2009, 10:16 PM
My drawing skills are ok at best and I've been in the industry as an for a year now. Though don't tell people that unless they bring it up. Once they see your work, if it's really good no one will care if you can draw or not. It helps, learning any tool to produce work helps, whether it's pencil and paper or a pc with maya. Master one or be decent at both and with lots of determination you'll be just fine.

MrPositive
12-03-2009, 02:07 AM
These drawing threads seem to go back and forth ad nauseum. I just don't understand the issue here. In what way feasible, can learning to draw better, hurt you? That's all I want answered. Personally, I just think most people are lazy and want the easiest road to success possible (which isn't always at first necessarily wrong either). In my own experience, I have never drawn nearly as well as most, and my traditional instruction and strengths were in sculpture. However, when I got into 3D, I was determined to improve my drawing to at least a manageable level to help express my ideas visually to others. I think each of us has a potential threshold that we can achieve in drawing/art, some higher than others, but almost all high enough to improve their 3D skill sets across the board. We hold weekly figure (clothed) classes for free at the school for basically anyone. All that is required is your time. Shrug.

vfxart
12-03-2009, 06:03 AM
I know a couple of the folks who can't draw and who are refered to for their CG skills in this thread... and for one of them I will say this: he can build practical models as well as model, light, comp, etc. He'd probably be a fair decent sculptor as well, as it's his understanding of form (and engineering, mechanics, how elements move in space) that he has got from building, studying, sorting out problems. His observational skills are solid, too. The best way to develop an understanding of form and work on your observation is to draw, a lot. Draw and sculpt.

Do you need to? No, course not. I think folks who post these sorts of questions tend to be looking for a way out. But all of the modelers, animators, and texture artists I've met who absolutely kick ass can draw and paint at a very high level; working in the industry is just the day job so they can keep doing the 'real' work for themselves and keep growing as artists.

It may pay to take this to heart: some companies (I'm thinking of three known for live action fx) will not hire you without a very solid credit list or show reel (NOT student) if they don't see massive traditional skills in a portfolio, regardless of your demo reel quality.

rakmaya
12-03-2009, 02:22 PM
What drawing helps the most is to keep your ideas in your mind while you model. Keeping a mental picture (a steady one) is tough. Drawing is something that helps you get that skill. You only need a minimum drawing ability to do this. A simple sketching skill is all that is needed mostly.

That is not my word. I took it from my friend who is a sculptor.

I only have just 3 years of exp within prof game dev. but what I have seen from my experience is that what drawing helps in a real job is with communication. Most of the 3d (game/film) and vfx job requires good level of communication and drawing is very frequently used here by everyone.

Hell... nowadays even fx programmers (some of us are mathematicians) knows how to make a simple sketch to convey ideas. So even if you are a top 3D artist (without drawing skill), when you want to work efficiently in big projects, drawing is an irreplaceable skill.

Really.. it takes at most 2 months of a drawing class to get started. After that you can feel happy that you nolonger have that weakness :)

Shack
12-11-2009, 08:41 PM
Drawing will help you learn the basics of anatomy and poses which can help a lot with modelling and proportions. It's a good idea to be able to draw so you can draw out ideas before spending hours or days on a project.

Wanting and loving something doesn't mean you'll get it. Some people just can't grasp on to certain things. You have to work hard and practice a lot. Ask other people in the field what they did to get to where they were.

Use what that person told you as motivation, don't get cocky or shut that person out, but ask why, or what you can do to improve. Sometimes people try to test your reactions to see if you really want something.

Good luck.

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