what pose should the model be in to rig properly?

[theflash]

I agree that T-pose creates trouble with the shoulder and chest area. If in t-pose all the deformations should be properly modeled, e.g. a little bit of stretch in pectoralis and some of the muscles on the side of the ribcage. However, over the time I now believe that 45 degree angle works better since most of muscles near shoulder and chest are more relaxed and it gives a better chance for riggers to define deformation.

[phoelix]

yeah i agree.. the 45 degrees pose is better to keep the volume of the shoulder muscle or the shoulder cloth, and also because most of the time the character's arms are down. But for some "cartoony" characters that dont have too much volume in that area the T pose can be considered as a better option, because the t pose helps to give a better deformation in the armpit when the character rises the arms.

[Gnimmel]

Skinning at 45 degrees is better for deformation, like everyone seems to agree on, however, it is not better for rigging the controls. If you are going to have a IK arm set up, then the IK controls want to be in world space so the graph editor makes sense to the animator. Rigging a hand at 45 degrees would take the control out of world space and moving up would be 2 axis in the graph editor.
A better way is to model and skin at 45 degrees, but then rotate the arm straight (or just the hand) when you start to add the controls.

Cheers,

Richard

[mlefevre]

Skinning at 45 degrees is better for deformation, like everyone seems to agree on, however, it is not better for rigging the controls. If you are going to have a IK arm set up, then the IK controls want to be in world space so the graph editor makes sense to the animator. Rigging a hand at 45 degrees would take the control out of world space and moving up would be 2 axis in the graph editor.


I've never thought about it like that. Makes sense for the animator in mind!

[eek]

Model and Bind in A pose. Rig in T.

[Gnimmel]

I've never thought about it like that. Makes sense for the animator in mind!

One of the most important parts of rigging is keeping the animators in mind, or else they might poison your coffee ;)

[theflash]

I think graph editor is a minor issue when using IK. You are always going to be using 2-3 axis with ik control to get good arcs.

Charles: won't it be a little messy if you make everything in t pose then try to match the geometry once it's rigged? Aligning local axis of joints with A-pose after rigging sounds somewhat troublesome to me.

[polyvin]

hey thanks for all the useful info guys, it's much appreciated ; )

just like how the riggers have to always keep the animators in mind, i think i as a 'wip' modeler should keep the rigger in my mind lol.

[eek]

I think graph editor is a minor issue when using IK. You are always going to be using 2-3 axis with ik control to get good arcs.

Charles: won't it be a little messy if you make everything in t pose then try to match the geometry once it's rigged? Aligning local axis of joints with A-pose after rigging sounds somewhat troublesome to me.

Other way round,

Build the mesh ,bones and skin it in the A pose - (store this as the skin pose), Then set the joints to the T pose or anything you can get a better reference space and rig it.

Personally it shouldnt matter rigging using the A pose - a double check every controller, handle etc I make when building the rig. The most important thing is to understand the reference space you want the rig and these relationship to the space the hierarchy exists in.

Charles

[giordi]

i can work really good with the T pose , i prefer that if i use a A pose often i have to fix problem of influence between chest and arm finger etc

[anoopak]

hi,
For character with a deltoid detail defined in the model I always ask for A poses from the modelers,where the muscles are in a relaxed pose.This has always proved to be good for weighting the shoulder region.Then I make the rig in T pose and bind the geometry to the skeleton after bringing the arm to A pose.But for cartoony cylindrical shoulder defintion I always go with T-pose which works fine with a few correctives for the volume preservation.

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