Luxology® Nexus® trademark infringed upon by nVidia®

[Phil Lawson]

Obviously 'nexus' in name has been used by many products before, but in this case, both are amendments to the visual studio environment. The fact that nVidia are business partners of Luxology and knew all along about Luxology nexus and the fact they (Luxology), have a trademark for it says alot about the company that's willing to continue on with its product under 'nVidia Nexus'. That is of course despite various letters being sent to them from Luxology to cease and desist.

Some clever wording that will show the differences - i.e. "one's a set of tools for creating your code the other code to base your own on" - MW, I would think they are still similar in the eyes of the public.

Not cool nVidia.

[Chris5999]

It's absolutely ridiculous for a business to behave this way, especially towards a business partner. This is from Brad Peebler, president of Luxology:

"Of course we did send them a very courteous letter asking them to cease their use of our registered trademark. They were clear in response that they intend to continue to use the Nexus(R) brand. Our attorneys suggested we try to meet with them to discuss an amicable solution. NV responded that they prefer to keep the discussion in the domain of the lawyers."

That's just cowardly...

[BoYangZhu]

The first time I saw the "Nvidia nexus" I felt the same way.
It's just doesn't make sense why they do that...Nvidia this is WRONG!

[kees]

Really?
I feel the opposite.

People shouldn't be making such a big stink about using similar names for products when they choose to use common used words for their products.

If the official name is 'Nvidia Nexus' then the problem is solved.
Nobody will be confused between 'Luxology Nexus' versus 'Nvidia Nexus'.

The problem is when people/companies are allowed to use single, 'commenly used' words as their trademarks.

If you want to hear the other side of the story, look up the whole 'edge games' issue. Where the guy trademarked the word 'edge' and is (trying) to sue every game out there with the word 'edge' in it.

[Mike RB]

It's lame because for people that are supposed to be tech partners they could have just avoided it...

And looking at nVidia's site I see many uses that don't include 'nVidia' preceding it...

"What is Nexus?"
"Get an Invitation for the Nexus Beta"
"We will start distributing invitations for Nexus Beta in October 2009."
"See Nexus in Action"
"Read more about Nexus"

[Zithen]

It's worse than lame. They are intentionally trying to hurt Luxology's business because, most likely, they see them as a threat to their Mental Ray product and long term market share.

[kees]

So?
You are already on the Nvidia webpage at that time.

Lets assume most people understand it to be a Nvidia product at that time.

And if I introduce you as 'Mike RB' the first time, do I have to keep refereing to you with that name, or can I just call you Mike after that and people will 'get' I'm not talking about some other Mike?

-Kees

[BluEgo]

I really can't understand NVidia's behaviour.
What is the meaning of this (bad) move? I think that, if they want to keep the discussion in the domain of the lawyers, they don't have so many possibilitiers to win, even if they are really a big big company... so, why?

[kees]

It's worse than lame. They are intentionally trying to hurt Luxology's business because, most likely, they see them as a threat to their Mental Ray product and long term market share.

Are you kidding me?!
And they do this by using a trademark name similar to theirs? :)

Conspiracy theories to the max.

[BigPixolin]

If it wasn't such a common used word I would see a problem. But there a million things out there called nexus.

[BluEgo]

Are you kidding me?!
And they do this by using a trademark name similar to theirs? :)

Conspiracy theories to the max.

So I assume you shouldn't be angry if I would create a real-time shader editor for 3dsmax called "BluEgo Shader FX" :)

[Zithen]

Are you kidding me?!
And they do this by using a trademark name similar to theirs? :)

Conspiracy theories to the max.
It is a theory. But why would Nvidia do this if they already know about Luxology's Nexus, which Microstation and Solidworks used as the basis of their renderer in their own products?

Maybe they just chose "Nexus" because it sounded nice.

But companies are usually very aware of their marketing strategies. They knew about Luxology's trademark and decided to use it anyway. Why?

[stooch]

Because they can come up to say microstation and say, hey we are partners with luxology, our tools are also built on nexus architecture. That way they get a contract and luxology gets no licensing fees.

So there you have it. we have a motive, whats next detective stabler?

[Mike RB]

If using common words is ok as long as you add your company brand, then these should sit well with you Kees.

Autodesk® Nuke
Autodesk® Fume
Autodesk® Fusion
Autodesk® Shake
Autodesk® Cinema
Autodesk® Premiere
Autodesk® Blender
Autodesk® messiah

And just for you Kees:
Autodesk® Helium
Autodesk® Puppetshop

[SheepFactory]

As long as luxology trademarked nexus I dont see what can nvidia do in court that can help them win? They are direct competitors, its not some "nexus pizza" deal where its a totally different industry.

[Mike RB]

As long as luxology trademarked nexus I dont see what can nvidia do in court that can help them win? They are direct competitors, its not some "nexus pizza" deal where its a totally different industry.

Exactly, "Autodesk® Nuke", "Autodesk® Fusion" and "Autodesk® Blender" all sound pretty sketchy... same deal.

Maybe "Blizzard® Doom", "Blizzard® Quake", or "Apple® Windows" would be ok with people too....

I think lux is just disappointed that nVidia is doing this. They would obviously like to stay buddies as lux has gone to great lengths to make sure the experience with modo on nVidia graphics cards was smooth. Kind of sours things.

[kees]

What are you guys talking about 'similar products'?

I really don't see these two products being as similar as some of you suggest.

Isn't one an extension for visual studio and the other the animation/modelling platform (core) of Luxology?

That to me (in the computer world) is about as far away as cars and pizzas.

That's really far from being similar platforms, unless I'm completely misreading the websites provided?!

Some of you suggest that "making a shader tool called <some name> ShaderFX' is similar to this situation, but imo its totally not. Because now you are talking about a product that actually does do the same thing.

If somebody made a software rendering plugin for Mental Ray and call it "Metal Ray ShaderFX" I would have ZERO problem with that.

They really do not do the same thing. And in that situation the 2 products would be far more related then Nvidia Nexus and Luxology Nexus.

Could they have come up with another name to avoid confusion, yes, for both parties I think that would have been beneficial. But I don't see how Nvidia Nexus is going to hurt Luxology Nexus in anyway (other then maybe bump them down a bit in google search)

[Mike RB]

What are you guys talking about 'similar products'?

Listen to Brad's podcast. 2/3 of the way through.

... "Mental Images iRay powered by Nexus" "Solidworks powered by Nexus" "modo powered by Nexus"..

Then imagine Lux moves to GPU rendering..... "Nexus GPU development toolkit... by Luxology"

Nice 'partner' considering they could have picked any name.

[ThirdEye]

I'm tempted to make a brand new orange juice and call it "ThirdEye Fanta"

[Mike RB]

But I don't see how Nvidia Nexus is going to hurt Luxology Nexus in anyway (other then maybe bump them down a bit in google search)

It's nVidia® Nexus, and Nexus®.

(Lux's trademark of Nexus® does not include their company name)

[hakanpersson]

I'm tempted to make a brand new orange juice and call it "ThirdEye Fanta"

Let me know how many lawyers you get to make friend with=)

[JaKaL]

Nvidia, is clearly wrong in this matter. They need to change the name.

[Novakog]

What are you guys talking about 'similar products'?

I really don't see these two products being as similar as some of you suggest.

Isn't one an extension for visual studio and the other the animation/modelling platform (core) of Luxology?

That to me (in the computer world) is about as far away as cars and pizzas.


You're right about what they are, but unlike cars and pizza their domain is very overlapping. It is extremely feasible for a single piece of software to be based on Nexus and written with the help of nVidia's Nexus, which means that it is extremely feasible for there to be mis-communication about the two.

[trthing]

Doing that (choosing litigation over negotiation with a partner) always stinks of "lets drag them through lengthy legal battles until they fold for lack of funds".

Lame-o-la move from NVidia: creativity block there? Too hard to find another name? C'mon...

[L33tace]

"Our attorneys suggested we try to meet with them to discuss an amicable solution. NV responded that they prefer to keep the discussion in the domain of the lawyers."

wow at NV, did NV get some bad advice - they really should mediate and sort it out

US trademarks office has 423 hits for the word Nexus and this is Luxology's (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=4003:vnddc2.6.1)

[BoYangZhu]

What are you guys talking about 'similar products'?

I really don't see these two products being as similar as some of you suggest.

If somebody made a software rendering plugin for Mental Ray and call it "Metal Ray ShaderFX" I would have ZERO problem with that.

Then how about somebody make a software rendering plugin for Mental Ray and call it "Mental Ray"?
Is that confusing?

[Mike RB]

And nVidia didn't seem to like it much when Intel shipped their follow up to the Core 2 Duo as the Core 4 Quadro. :) Notice that didn't stick.

[jupiterjazz]

Really?
I feel the opposite.

People shouldn't be making such a big stink about using similar names for products when they choose to use common used words for their products.

If the official name is 'Nvidia Nexus' then the problem is solved.
Nobody will be confused between 'Luxology Nexus' versus 'Nvidia Nexus'.

The problem is when people/companies are allowed to use single, 'commenly used' words as their trademarks.

If you want to hear the other side of the story, look up the whole 'edge games' issue. Where the guy trademarked the word 'edge' and is (trying) to sue every game out there with the word 'edge' in it.

Beat this (at page 2, undr all the copyright names):
mental trademarked not just "reality server" but also the word "reality":

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:8JuMl2FzupwJ:www.medigy.net/xres/menray.pdf+realityTM+mental+images&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESinH4h8zsmotBzbDK8_Zeyc-xItGI4h6vbZCPElw3J71wlpUE7etXfoGD2Yh8b-08_PWUSID9dES-kGtXH1bg9i3PDGJ-z0-TONkSpxMgSwSgkDkpbQcflh7REE61d47MWBixoB&sig=AFQjCNGZWTUi5j0h1m47aGbTxhT0ZCnSGQ

How can you trademark "reality"?!?

monumental images...

Speaking of the wolf here, they could be involved in this since it seems to me not in the style of nvidia and more in the style of mental. Besides, with dassault dumping mental ray in favor of luxology nexus....


p

[Mike RB]

Beat this (at page 2, undr all the copyright names):
mental trademarked not just "reality server" but also the word "reality":

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:8JuMl2FzupwJ:www.medigy.net/xres/menray.pdf+realityTM+mental+images&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESinH4h8zsmotBzbDK8_Zeyc-xItGI4h6vbZCPElw3J71wlpUE7etXfoGD2Yh8b-08_PWUSID9dES-kGtXH1bg9i3PDGJ-z0-TONkSpxMgSwSgkDkpbQcflh7REE61d47MWBixoB&sig=AFQjCNGZWTUi5j0h1m47aGbTxhT0ZCnSGQ

Only one word: Monumental Images.

Speaking of the wolf here, they could be involved in this since it seems to me not in the style of nvidia and more in the style of mental. Besides, with dassault dumping mental ray in favor of luxology nexus....
p

Wow, so the following are Trademarked by Mental Images (nVidia)...
Mental
Reality
Meta
Phenomenon

[dagon1978]

Beat this (at page 2, undr all the copyright names):
mental trademarked not just "reality server" but also the word "reality":

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:8JuMl2FzupwJ:www.medigy.net/xres/menray.pdf+realityTM+mental+images&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESinH4h8zsmotBzbDK8_Zeyc-xItGI4h6vbZCPElw3J71wlpUE7etXfoGD2Yh8b-08_PWUSID9dES-kGtXH1bg9i3PDGJ-z0-TONkSpxMgSwSgkDkpbQcflh7REE61d47MWBixoB&sig=AFQjCNGZWTUi5j0h1m47aGbTxhT0ZCnSGQ

How can you trademark "reality"?!?

monumental images...

Speaking of the wolf here, they could be involved in this since it seems to me not in the style of nvidia and more in the style of mental. Besides, with dassault dumping mental ray in favor of luxology nexus....


p


yes, i think it's involved in the world hunger and in the JFK assassination ahah
you're so funny

[GQ1]

It is disappointing to hear news like this.
But I guess voting with ones wallet is always an option for us consumers.

[webhead]

Anyone remember when The Donald tried to trademark, "You're fired!" from his show, THE APPRENTICE?
There was a woman named Susan Brenner who was none too thrilled with the idea according to a story published on Adland TV of April 1, 2004:

"As it happens, Brenner owns a ceramics studio and pottery store in north suburban Glenview by the same name. A friend suggested the name when she opened seven years ago, and Brenner thought it was a catchy pun.

But the name doesn't sound so funny to her now that Trump has lifted the phrase into the pop-culture lexicon and is trying to legally make it his own.

"Every person who walks into store now says `Oh you're copying Donald Trump,'" Brenner said. "And I say `No, he's copying me.'"
.....
So Brenner took a page out of Trump's business handbook and called her attorney, who's drafting a letter to Trump seeking to halt his trademark plans."

[Kabab]

yes, i think it's involved in the world hunger and in the JFK assassination ahah
you're so funny
Losing out on solidworks would have hurt mental, 1 million + userbase! ouch...

[JookBoxer]

This is cgnews? This really isn't important... If you can't tell the difference between the two then it's obvious the products are outside of your domain and thus you shouldn't care. The forums need an official bitch thread to contain all the, microsoft, autodesk, nvidia, apple hate posts.

[Yazan]

If you think the law of patenting names is wrong then you should discuss that. But since both companies are in the US and both of them are under the same laws and both have patented names then that should be respected. I wonder what would have happened if Luxology came out with "Mental Images iRay powered by Nexus®" while Nvidia has "Mental Images iRay® powered by Nexus". Do you think Nvidia would be ok with it? Nvidia is a GPU company trying to sell its GPUs. Luxology is a software company trying to sell its software. Both are in the 3D world through the cross over of those two. If Luxology takes a step into GPU rendering, which Nvidia is pushing its partners for then the paths have become the same since Nvidia also has the iRay.

Nvidia is a huge company compared to Luxology and doing this is a load of crap.

Yazan

[leuey]

Of course this is CG News. Luxology is one of a handful of companies left that haven't been assimilated by Autodesk or Nvidia and they're getting their trademark stomped on. Nexus(R) is Luxology's core technology from which modo, the Bentley renderer and PhotoView 360 are derived from. NVidia's decision to name their similar technology 'Nexus' is inexplicable except as a hostile move, especially given:

* Luxology is a tech partner, they knew the trademark was taken.
* Luxology sent a cease and desist warning (ignored).
* Luxology offered to meet with lawyers to work out a solution (rejected).

Nvidia's response was 'talk to our lawyers'. Basically a big 'F-you, we can outspend you - tough luck, it's ours.'

It's kind of pathetic...and seems desperate. Nvidia's stock has plummeted, two years ago it was around $35..now it's $13. They spent tens of millions acquiring MR and what have they gotten out of it except for unhappy customers all too willing to shell out money for better software from Luxology, Chaos Group, Next Limit....etc (even when they get MR free)? Intel (who already dominates the desktop graphics market btw) has taken away Nvidia's license to make chipsets and is also on the verge of releasing Larrabee which will reduce Nvidia's share even more.

Luxology out competed them for the Solidworks deal (something like a million licenses of SW out there, probably more than all the Max, Maya, XSI, Lightwave, C4D and modo licenses put together) with superior software and there's no reason they can't beat them out for the remaining MR licenses that other companies are unhappy with. Nvidia's long term hope for growth revolves around things like Tesla hardware, Reality Server and umm....Nexus (note the lack of a (R)) software for real-time rendering and HPC.

It certainly seems like an attempt to squash a competitor who's been beating them with better technology by outspending them. Even if you don't own modo (or like it), Luxology is a boon to the 3D industry. Look at the last release of Maya..or Max (or the Core videos) - plenty of ideas there that sprung from modo. Small companies like Luxology help to keep the ball of innovation moving forward. They spent a lot of time and money on the Nexus brand that will evaporate into nothing if Nvida is allowed to steamroll them.

Do we all really want an industry composed of just Autodesk and Nvidia? Will that be a good thing? Who's next after Luxology on the hit list? V-Ray? They take a lot of business away from NVidia...

Nvidia, if you're listening - do you want to be the next Autodesk? Take a look around these forums, is that the reputation you want?

It's news.

-Greg

[simonenastasi]

Claiming that 1) intel is coming out soon with larrabbee and 2) it will compete from start with nvidia is a bit of an azardous guess. Until now larrabee is still vaporware.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/10/12/an-inconvenient-truth-intel-larrabee-story-revealed.aspx?pageid=0

[MotleyPete]

They can pick any name they like, so there must be an ulterior reason why they are doing this.

Not cool. Not cool at all

[pix3lm0nk]

so many other things to be concerned with... just let the courts handle it.

[Yazan]

The whole point is that Nvidia has a much bigger pot to pull money from and take this to court than Luxology. Money that Luxology COULD spend furthering their product instead of wasting it on courts and lawyers to fight something that shouldn't be fought to begin with since Nvidia doesn't have the name registered.

Yazan

[cresshead]

looks like a load of name calling to me...
sticks n stones....:)

[Limbus]

This is really a bad move from nvidia. I really hope that Luxology can win this in court.

[pix3lm0nk]

The whole point is that Nvidia has a much bigger pot to pull money from and take this to court than Luxology. Money that Luxology COULD spend furthering their product instead of wasting it on courts and lawyers to fight something that shouldn't be fought to begin with since Nvidia doesn't have the name registered.

Yazan


I think we all know what the point is. No need to futher belabor the point. That's already been done by the amount of repetitive posts in this thread. :argh:

[Yazan]

And yet it failed to wart off your comment about the courts. Interesting.

Yazan

Edit: I'm not trying to attack anyone here. Your comment just felt like it was something simple. I'm a modo user. I enjoy modo. I'd rather see more modo stuff instead of court stuff.

[bisenberger]

I've always been a devoted user of nVIDIA display cards. This could be the thing that makes me reconsider.

I was also devoted to 3ds max until Autodesk's aggressive marketing pushed me to look at other solutions. Modo was the solution I moved to. For me this was a positive, as the modeling in modo is much more intuitive (for me) and the renderer is excellent and easy to use. I even like the renderer better than the Vray renderer for max (and Vray is super Cool!).

[PhilipeaNguyen]

Regardless of what people's opinions may be, one court case that may provide a precedent for this was Microsoft vs. Linspire. Microsoft successfully sued the company for trademark infringe over the product name "Lindows." It's not exactly the same, but it seems pretty close and would leave Nvidia in a not so good position with Nexus if it goes the same way.

[Grolicus]

"Our attorneys suggested we try to meet with them to discuss an amicable solution. NV responded that they prefer to keep the discussion in the domain of the lawyers."



This kind of says it all to me. IMHO, if you're interested in a quick and acceptable solution for both, this is not the way to go. It forces Lux to take aggressive actions or to shut up : either way, it'll hurt their relationship.

[Dennik]

I hope Luxology gets a big big compensation out of this. NVidia is a 80billion dollar giant they can afford to lose a few for their arrogance and stupidity.

[CHRiTTeR]

I dont know the details (who was first, what does the lawyer advice etc etc...) but I'd seriously considder going to court.
I love their products, but what an arrogant and disrespectfull company.

[^Lele^]

Wow, so the following are Trademarked by Mental Images (nVidia)...
Mental
Reality
Meta
Phenomenon
*sarcasm on*
Well, that's very ok with me.
I just have to remember not to start a sentence with any of those words.
Take the capital letter out, and you're free to play.
*sarcasm off*

edit: actually, one should ALWAYS start a sentence with Meta, and never ever use it within one. That one is TM when not capital. They should sue the sh*t out of sooo many dictionaries...
Since they're at it, they may also hold Aristotle liable, along with the many Greeks of past and present ages. Him and his stupid Metaphysics.
Cfr. μετά (metá (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta)) (meaning "beyond" or "after")
Jokes apart, how is it even possible to TM a word which is live in one language or the other, and has been so for years when not millenniums?
How stupid has patenting become? Could someone shed some light for me on how those TMs are supposed to be enforced, and to which particular field is that enforcement limited?

[runejw]

Personally I hope the patent and trademark office will decline to trademark/patent common words.

Inventing a new word/name is another matter - the applicant should then be granted full protection.

I understand the reality is different - to the eternal gratitude of lawyers I'm sure. But this current practice of hijacking common words for corporate use in some cases can also make it awkward to use in everyday communication. That the makers of Diskeeper managed to patent the word "undelete" is such an example - which consequently makes it more difficult for competitors, shareware and freeware software producers to describe what their product does.

Now "nexus" in this context is pretty well known in developer circles so I think there is no great hazard in having "Luxology nexus" and "Nvidia nexus" confused. Possibly the general public will be confused, but the general public is also confused about significant things like E=mc^2 without that generating any sort of distress to either the public or the laws of nature ;)

[DrBalthar]

Well what do you expect from Dear Leader (JHJ) he can't even come up with a name by himself not speaking even about a chip that actually works.

[Phil Lawson]

"Today I am pleased to report some progress on the Nexus trademark issue in that nVidia is now agreeing to sit down and talk with us. We very appreciate all of the support we have seen from the modo and even CG community on this." - Bob @ Luxology

At least they have reconsidered a meeting with Lux now.

[williamsburroughs]

This is absurd. How could nVidia do something like this. I bet a Product Manager @ nVidia gets a good talking to for this fiasco. Nexus has been a part of the Luxology IP since their inception...it is the foundation of all of their tools and technology.

Come on nVidia...get your own brand and stop using someone elses.

Yeesh...have some vision and originality. :argh:

[_vine_]

423 different trademarks currently have "Nexus" in the name. That's a lot of unoriginal people, including Luxology.

A fluid simulation company named Landmark filed for the trademark "Nexus" on April 23, 2004 and Luxology didn't file until October 22, 2004. Maybe Landmark should sue Luxology since Luxology may one day include fluid simulation in Nexus and Modo?

I think there is a lot of heat on this thread going Nvidia's way when it could just be a mistake since their software in no way shape for form relates to Luxology's Nexus. Luxology's Nexus doesn't analyze gpu performance inside of Visual Studio like Nvidia's Nexus, it is middleware for software developers to expand upon (i.e. Bentley Systems who make architectural drafting software amongst other things). Besides, Nvidia hasn't filed yet for the trademark "Nexus", so maybe they don't care about using it when they get out of beta.

[BookMansBlues]

While I'm not terribly broken up about this I will say this could be a cash cow for Lux once the dust settles and they put the lawyers back in their holsters.

[iatriki]

I will trademark the letters of all the world's alphabets and I shall be a rich man! yepee...

[BoYangZhu]

I will trademark the letters of all the world's alphabets and I shall be a rich man! yepee...
MAN,YOU'RE A GENIUS!!! :eek:

[drdespair]

eh...here we go again, squabbling over a word from a dead language.

[abuminalis]

Because they can come up to say microstation and say, hey we are partners with luxology, our tools are also built on nexus architecture. That way they get a contract and luxology gets no licensing fees.

So there you have it. we have a motive, whats next detective stabler?


I second that, Luxology was raped big time!

[Mike RB]

So there you have it. we have a motive, whats next detective stabler?

I prefer Benson personally. :)

[evolucian]

its a bullshit move but its smart aggressive business...should be an interesting turnout

[paul k.]

Full support to Luxology on the issue. I looked at it closely and Nvidia is in the wrong. Frankly I'm tired of company's like Nvidia, and Autodesk that use corporate bullying tactics and have a clear disregard for the law. It's time someone sticks up to them.

Luxology in my opinion has one of the most innovative products on the market. If they are a threat to others... then those company's should work hard for our business.... plane and simple.

I wish Luxology the best... it will probably be a long and hard fight!

I hope we can all rally a lot of support for them!

[R10k]

I wish Luxology the best... it will probably be a long and hard fight!

I hope we can all rally a lot of support for them!

Luxology aren't a litter of helpless kittens. They're all grown up and can take care of themselves.

[DanielWray]

Ah come on.. Some one please separate the two kids who are fighting in the playground. :rolleyes:

[OdinNG]

First of all I think "Nexus" is a dull name
and it was the English name of my class teacher 5 years ago :shrug:

[Phil Lawson]

The matter has now been resolved. Nvidia will/have change(d) any references to code name Nexus until an actual name has been decided. Nice one Nvidia - good show.

[-Sai-]

happy ending ! good job Nvidia!

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