3D Character - Female [CAUTION NUDITY]

[tater]

she's hot all right.... it has a painterly quality about it; has the render been Photoshopped? wireframe please?

[Wicked_Chicken]

wow...

i like, nice composition, she has a very nice feel to her (well, that doesnt sound right, does it?)

[Waz]

It's a lot different from your previous works. The pictures have a real painter quailty in them, nothing that I would expect you did in lightwave, Did you take the images into photoshop?

The Top picture looks just fine to me but the bottom one has issues. The right arm looks really small, i figure its from the perspcetive of the camera, but it looks as if it belongs on a baby or small child. Also the right side of the hair should be bending down where gravity goes...and the whole picture should pe rotated 90 degres counter clockwise. And the side of her near the butt and abs looks really square and chunky to me.

[agreenster]

Yeah, I have to agree that the arms look too short, even on the top picture. Her hair definately needs some touch up on the bottom picture because theres no gravity apparently in the land of Lightwave. :)

Nice landing strip.:surprised

[Hellmare]

it looks great and tasty :) btw her face has little more red than body skin but its ok :)
one question - did you do this as model and then move it with something like motion or you made these 2 poses seperately ?

[Deam]

Wow! she looks really ...ehm ... natural. :beer:

[McSpirit]

:eek: Thats great.. Mods quick plug this one really nice :love:

[Wonderer]

aaaaaaaaahhhh... the old good nude.

[buzzlightyr]

Hmm new there wasa reason good made a women.......So great modelers can create greater women :drool:

[krl]

Yeah, I really love it ... doesn't really look photorealistic but realistic as well, I guess if you really wanted to, you could change some offsets and this one would look like a photo, but it looks pretty good as it is anyway.
Well, one thing: her breast dont look real on the one where she lies on the ground, they fall as if she was standing; thats all I can find.
Damn nice work man :)

[insanepoly]

Originally posted by agreenster
Yeah, I have to agree that the arms look too short, even on the top picture...


I think the length of the arm for the top picture is just right where it is because when the arm is at the side of the body, the wrist should fall just slightly above the level of the groin area and the elbow should be just a couple of inches above the level of the navel.

[Wolfmoonct]

I agree with the proportions in the top pic. The top does look very good and in proportion. The arms are definately too short looking in the bottom one, but very well done.

[amos_chid]

awesome works.. i like the painterly look on her :buttrock:
definitely front page quality :applause:

[policarpo]

very inspiring work STRIKE!

Keep it up!

[cougarpride]

Excellent modeling! The glossiness of her skin seems way too high though. The colors of her hair seem off too. I like the model overall though. :buttrock:

[robkoni]

nice work as allways Strike :beer: what are up to(workwise)
how do you get time to turn this stuff out...talking of time..........
how long did she take?
All the best Robin.

[Youth]

Waooo I can't believe it :D

Great!! Please show me the wire and the texture...
(If you have too many time make a tutor to me :)))

Thanks!

[xtrm3d]

great work and really inspiring..
bravo mr strike..!!


can we see a wireframe please...


dit moi ??
juste une petite question..
je suis en train de faire un carachter cartoon comme d´habitude..
mais je voudrais faire un rendu realistic pour changer un peux.. et surtout pour creer un contrast cartoon proportion+realistic shader ..
si tu pouvais au cas ou tu aurais un peux de temp a sacrifier ..
me mettre sur la bonne voie pour faire un bon skin shader ??
merci par avance
christophe..

upppss.. le lien vers la crature :
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81393&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

[rolhionjs]

thanks all.

About the skin shader you can find a file i've done for the human skin texturing thread in the texturing room, here's the link for the lightwave preset of a human skin :

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/ball_skinshader.zip

To work, you'll need the orenayar plugin (free) available here : http://koti.mbnet.fi/anttij77/Plugins/Sininenplaneetta_Plugins_Main.htm


Another method is to play with radiosity and background and then modify the render under photoshop

an example :

a simple scene :

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/displayshader.jpg

On this one, i only have 2 lights, playing with radiosity and light colors interacting with the object surface :

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/displayobject.jpg

Color of the object is red. Color of lights and background : blue. The two colors mix is giving something like that :

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/displayrender.jpg

Not really realistic, but when exporting to photoshop this one, then you just have to modify the balance color, and Levels... That's all, and that's also simple for a video tool like after effects. The advantage is there's no plugins.

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/displayobject2.jpg

[Youth]

Heyy!!!

It's not the girl!!! Please show more picture about the girl!!

[rolhionjs]

First image is the render, second one is the modified one under photoshop. As you can see, hairs are painted ... Sorry to disapointed you ;)

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/standingwoman3.jpg

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/standingwoman4.jpg

[xtrm3d]

wireframe..wireframe.. we want wireframe.. !!!pleaaaaseeeee..

[rolhionjs]

xtrm3d : ça te va mes explications sur mes shaders ?

wires :

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/standingwoman5.jpg

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/standingwoman6.jpg

http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/standingwoman7.jpg

[allenlikewo]

Thoose anti-tri obbsessive people can have a feild day on your mesh but in my opinion the model looks GOOD

[xtrm3d]

yep..yep.. merci..
je vais tester . +tard

[silv]

she is HOT

[Kel Solaar]

Le mesh est pas très clean, mais bon c'st pas tellement la manière d'y arriver qui compte dans ce cas là, c'est le résultat et il est vraiment sympa!

Good job Strike :)

[Pixel Dust]

Hey Do you have that skin shader in XSI forma by chance, or know how one can convert it into an XSI file?

[DreamcastDC]

WOW :drool: she looks very nice

[The-Buzz]

I like your work :thumbsup:
but I think to your second picture, hair haven't realistic stand :wise:

Good continuation!


(ps: Strike c'est quoi ce site web avec des images en vrac, y en as pour 500mo de ram a charger pour tout voir :surprised )

[MROGER]

I'm sorry, but your wireframe remember me a poser's model.

I think it's time for you to learn to model a character without Poser.:shame:

[Laptop]

...poser 5 mesh

[Laptop]

... poser 5 texture...

I am sure it is poser...
I love the other work of Strike he did...

[xtrm3d]

hummmm...
i was curious why strike did not post a full wire shot of the head and the body together..

please strike ... tell us that Michel ROGER and laptop are wrong ...
and show use some wirframe to prove the truth ..

dont let this thread die.. we want the truth :-)

to Michel ROGER..
just wanna want you to know that i am a big fan of your work..
and i know your level of profesionality
i think that if you say something like this .. you should have your reason.. and really have recognized that something should be wrong..

me tottal curious.. to see the next answer from strike..

[German]

hi, hey strike very nice skills you have!! let us know about the programm! bye:rolleyes:

[misterboogie]

This is very disappointing. I was a big fan of yours until this.
Why did you feel it necessary to use a poser model and pawn it off as your own? Tracing a poser model wasn't fast enough?

You are a VERY talented 3d artist and I don't see the need for you to use poser models to get ahead.

I would come clean because this could ruin your reputation.

I use to think you were gonna end up like Stahlberg or Cortina but now I don't know what I think?

Sorry.

[xtrm3d]

i just think .. befor we say he used any poser model.. we need and it would be fair .. to hear what he have to say..
c´mon strike..
proof use that we are completely wrong .. ( i hope)

[JasonA]

man I just didn't want to believe this... Especially after the Dale Williams thing last week. And I think it is unfair to accuse someone of something without proof.

But put the two wires side by side and compare faces, edge loops, tri-locations, etc -- ouch. They look pretty darn identical to me. Thats simply too much of a fluke to believe.

These are the pics that Laptop posted above, comapred to the thread pics in page 1.

http://home.comcast.net/~prwsjl/meshes.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~prwsjl/maps.jpg

I'm at a loss for words.
:annoyed:

[r2d3]

poser ? :shame:
i would like to hear what strider says

[DaliFan]

Amazing...

hard to believe someone model's and comes up with the exact same mid section, all the tri-s, etc. Damn hard to believe

Call's a lot into question. Especially since you already put her on your web page.

tsk tsk

[mora]

awww man..why? why? why?:cry:

[BoydLake]

Yes, it looks to me like a Poser mesh, and it's not the first time Strike has used Poser for work submitted on CGTalk.


This mesh looks to be the actual work of artists from DAZ, who is made up of character and anatomy modelers who got their start at Viewpoint.

The reason for the high polycounts is mainly to avoid having to meshsmooth the models, (which I'm not sure Poser can do... since I don't use it). And, BTW Tri polys are fine if you are careful where and how you place them on a model.

[JasonA]

Originally posted by Boyd Lake
Yes, it looks to me like a Poser mesh, and it's not the first time Strike has used Poser for work submitted on CGTalk.Where else has this happened?

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by JasonA
Where else has this happened?


http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/final_august_strike.jpg

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16422&perpage=15&highlight=Strike&pagenumber=1

[kr3ml]

she is a beuty :drool:

[MaTaDoR]

wow, those are some strong allegations but the evidence does make for a difficult case...

[Aevium Viemme]

Jee-zus! Calm down guys, whoop dee do, he used a Poser model. It's an exercise in head modelling/texturing/Photoshop as far as I can see and the skin shader trick isn't exactly wide-spread, now is it?

I've briefly seen some other Strike's work and he's not some hack trying to pass off stolen things as his own, although he didn't mention it was a Poser model. But he did rig it and waste a lot of time with the mood of the picture...

We can't all be perfect and sometimes we must take shortcuts when time is of the essence, and although Strike may have used a Poser mesh in a few of his works, I know slews of people *cough*renderosity*cough* who have entire galleries composed of crappy Poser renders.

Lighten up, this isn't as bad as Dale Williams.

[JasonA]

Originally posted by Boyd Lake
http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/final_august_strike.jpg
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16422&perpage=15&highlight=Strike&pagenumber=1 I take it that the women attached to the front of the boat (page4) is the poser model then? hmm well the thread never did show a wire of the body although a headshot wire was there.. so its not entirely clear

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by JasonA
I take it that the women attached to the front of the boat (page4) is the poser model then?

Yup. That's it. It's clearly not necessary for Strike (or is it?) to use Poser models, but the spirit of the challenges is to create your own stuff from scratch. As fast as Strike seems to be, I'm not sure why he'd resort to doing it. Anyway that's another thread.

As far as this piece goes, I would assume ALL artists posting work here to be working under the premise that the content is their own, unless they mention where collaborations/other assets are used. After all, what's the point of soliciting critique without being frank about what in the piece is yours and what is not? I feel the same about paint-over work as well.

Maybe there should be a special place on CGTalk for Poser/"I only textured this Poser model"/"I painted over this Photo that I traced with Illustrator"/collaborations.

[Jackmars]

Oh yes is Poser.But is still good work.he do other work with no poser,so maybe he want fast work to practice only with textures?:beer:

[clot]

Wow. Ripping models is not cool.

<edit>

And I just checked that other thread, the CGChallenge entry...timothyD called him on using a Poser model on the front of the ship (which it obviously is) - and he went off and then called off his entire entry - not before imploring upon us that he HAD modelled the girl and emphatically showing wireframes. This is all lame for him to do. He not only passed off someone else's model as his own, he lied about it after too.

Looking at his website:

http://www.designpicture.com/gallery3d.php

There's an awful lot of head shots and closeups. Makes me wonder just how much he has modelled from scratch. Sure he can model industrial shapes - but it's organic humanoid modelling that is really hard. Modelling monsters is comparatively easy too because there are no setboundaries. Textures and rendering can do the rest. Things like human faces and bodies are really challenging because everyone knows what they should look like. I'm pretty sure you can heavily tweak your poser model and then export parts like the head for alternate use in another app.

Poser:
http://www.designpicture.com/images_interface/_femme.jpg

Poser:
http://www.designpicture.com/head01.htm

Pretty sure the head is from Poser:
http://www.designpicture.com/legion01.htm

For sure Poser:
http://www.designpicture.com/images3Dversion/cgtalkwip011.jpg

Poser:
http://www.designpicture.com/medical.htm

Oh yeah, that's a Poser:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/designpicture/humantower.jpg

etc etc.

I agree with Boyd Lake 100% too. This whole affair only cheapens the art.

</edit>

[JasonA]

Originally posted by Aevium Viemme
Jee-zus! Calm down guys, whoop dee do, he used a Poser model. It's an exercise in head modelling/texturing/Photoshop as far as I can see and the skin shader trick isn't exactly wide-spread, now is it?

I've briefly seen some other Strike's work and he's not some hack trying to pass off stolen things as his own, although he didn't mention it was a Poser model. But he did rig it and waste a lot of time with the mood of the picture...

We can't all be perfect and sometimes we must take shortcuts when time is of the essence, and although Strike may have used a Poser mesh in a few of his works, I know slews of people *cough*renderosity*cough* who have entire galleries composed of crappy Poser renders.

Lighten up, this isn't as bad as Dale Williams. I'm sorry, but this entire line of defense is not only weak, but its hypocritical in the worst way and doesn't represent the situation accurately.

[Aevium Viemme]

How is it hypocritical? People are now turning away from this image because oh...it's a Poser model, right? :rolleyes:

[Marty_McSly]

Oh dear, oh dear,

Strike, why not just mention in your first post that this was a poser model, and what exactly did you do to the model in lightwave anyway, maybe texturing (which you seem pretty good at). The rest must have been done in a 2D app methinks.

Not everyone is a good modeller, your strengths seem to be in texturing - so I think you should concentrate on that, but ALWAYS give credit to other people's work, and don't leave details out - you will always be found out, and your reputation in the relatively small CG community will be tarnished forever.

Be honest dude, :shame:

[MaTaDoR]

ah, forget it..

wow clot, you arent playing are you..

[JasonA]

Originally posted by Aevium Viemme
How is it hypocritical? People are now turning away from this image because oh...it's a Poser model, right? :rolleyes: No, its about the honesty issue of using someone else's work and calling it your own. Thats commonly referred to as mesh theft -- very unprofessional. And the idea that 'its ok, we should overlook it' cause this person is an accomplished artist is hypocritical.

[Aevium Viemme]

Originally posted by JasonA
No, its about the honesty issue of using someone else's work and calling it your own. Thats commonly referred to as mesh theft -- very unprofessional. And the idea that 'its ok, we should overlook it' cause this person is an accomplished artist is hypocritical.

I understand, Jason, but then we can all be accusing lazy Poser newbies of mesh theft who import it into Max and whatnot, correct? People do tests all the time, and while I don't consider this particular work of Strike's a finished one, I don't think he intended it to be.

Edit: I have now seen more of strike's stuff in clot's post. Uh...well he does seem to be using Poser a lot... I think you're right, Jason. Maybe perhaps it's time for Strike to actually build models from scratch instead of texturing premade ones. :hmm:

[clot]

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...e&pagenumber=10

"I never used poser, except one time to try it, and to know what kinda of soft it was. I finally thought that creating his own character has more much fun than used an "already done" character, and most of all for a challenge... Maybe some people do it, but that's not my case. So here is the model i did to put on the boat, the woman " -Strike


yeah right. It bugs me that some people work their ass off to get where they are, and others ride in on someone else's sweat. And then lie about it.

Check this out too:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68979&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

and this:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82364
(At the end of thread I show where the pieces came from.)

and this:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75994&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

[Aevium Viemme]

First the 2D industry and now it's slowly heading over to CG...sickens me now that I think about it. Thanks, clot, for debunking all of this.

[clot]

I think I did a pretty bang-up job eh?

Hey Strike, how much 'asian' did you put in the Poser dial settings in the Face room. I can't get it just right.

[JDaniel]

Oh geez. They're all at Lightwave gallery finished work too.

[DaliFan]

WOW

Amazing job clot. Not only did he use a poser model here but he used animal parts, head's, etc

There is no way you can defend this. The guy taking it personal is missing the point. If you grab a poser model and do a super picture.... great! Just say it like it is. Some will diss you but you will still get plenty of respect.

That is not what is going on here.

Strike never said he used poser. His web page makes no mention. We know why he is so fast now don't we? He has work in the lightwave gallery as was mentioned. If it was poser then...

He was somehow able to sneak through and gain crediability. However that seems to be built on poser models that were never mentioned. That makes him a fraud. This website is NOT deviantart. He knew very well he was not only sneaking in poser parts, models, but using them in contests that have rules NOT to.

I was a fan of his. However, I doubt he modelled much of any organic matter. I am sure he just manipulated or took part's/models straight out. Makes me kinda sick actually. There is no way you can pass this off as anything but dirty. If I use a poser model (never would) then you can be damn sure I will say so. If you do not then you are a liar

:thumbsdow

[Agent D]

I really like STRIKE's work, but I kinda have to agree with you. :sad:

[oracle]

Here's my take on the whole thing.

In the CG community, Poser has been deemed as EVIL, and this is wrong! Some people can take Poser, and make it not look like Poser, and this is good thing. Personally I have no problem with it, as long as I am told where the model came from.

He didn't specifically tell us he modelled it, but he didn't tell us it was Poser either. This is not as bad as telling us he did, but still unacceptable. It is apparent from other work of his that he has a good artistic eye, and ability with his chosen software, so I don't know why he just didn't call it a texturing/lighting test with a Poser model.

Would have allowed him to save some dignity, but I still don't think this warrents this crucifixion of .::STRIKE::. and his talent... A simple request for his honesty (on this, and future works) would suffice.

[Jabor]

Oracle: A simple request for his honesty (on this, and future works) would suffice.

I so totally agree! :thumbsup:

[DaliFan]

oracle I am not trying to crucify him.

I really LIKE his work. I enjoyed it totally.

When you take a poser a model and put it in lightwave, then share it, you know darn well what perception you are giving off.

When a competition states you MUST create you're OWN mesh and you do not, that is fraud. Did he win one? if so even worse

I have seen people REALLY crucified on here for poser yet because it is "strike" it is different? How so? It is worse.

His own website makes no statement that poser was used on any model including his "latest" , the girl mentioned in this thread.

I think as a "professional" site you can expect at least honesty. You can expect the work to be created by the artist not by a program spitting out meshes. Again, this is NOT deviantart. He know's this. If he used ANY poser part/model/etc in ANY challenge here then he should be banned. ANYONE else would, do you argue that point? So how is that different? No wonder people were so leary about how fast he was.

There are PLENTY of great poser artists. That is not the point.

I am sorry but if (I do say IF) he used ANY poser model in a competition then he has zero crediability. He know's the rules. I have not entered one because I am not good enough, maybe I should buy poser? See what I mean? He is in the lightwave gallery as well.

BTW look at those meshes. Now you tell me how someone is going to model the EXACT same tri-s and the over-all structure the same? Come on.... also look at those link's with the animal part's, even worse!

[policarpo]

Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.
my last work under Lightwave.


hrmmm....sometimes the subconscious reveals more than secret worlds to us.

[polygun]

Don't you think Poser is a really excellent learning tool?

Im still trying to get a grasp on human modelling, and i'll tell you, poser is really answering some questions for me when it comes to topology and how expressions work in faces.

I can sit there and play with the smile morph and see right in front of me how the loops react to eachother.

Passing off a poser model as your own is damned dirty; but pushing aside this program and labeling it evil is ignorence.

[clot]

oracle, this is an ACTUAL quote from Strike

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...e&pagenumber=10

"I never used poser, except one time to try it, and to know what kinda of soft it was. I finally thought that creating his own character has more much fun than used an "already done" character, and most of all for a challenge... Maybe some people do it, but that's not my case. So here is the model i did to put on the boat, the woman " -Strike

If that isn't an out and out lie than I don't know what is.

Someone should contact Newtek and let them know.

I also think he should get his CGTalk Award taken away for this deception. What kind of message does this kind of behaviour send out to aspiring CG artists?


From what I understand, it looks like Strike has also been banned at http://www.3dvf.com/ for an altercation over a mesh he posted. (If you can read French it's in his forums at http://www.designpicture.com/forum.php)

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by polygun
Don't you think Poser is a really excellent learning tool?

Im still trying to get a grasp on human modelling, and i'll tell you, poser is really answering some questions for me when it comes to topology and how expressions work in faces.

I can sit there and play with the smile morph and see right in front of me how the loops react to eachother.

Passing off a poser model as your own is damned dirty; but pushing aside this program and labeling it evil is ignorence.

I don't think anyone is labeling Poser itself as evil or wrong. It's a fine Hobbyist software and useful to others who use it for quick and dirty stuff.

What's ethically problematic here is not USING Poser per se. It's the PRETENSE that Poser models are one's own work.

I'm not sure you learn much from Poser if you're wanting to learn subd modeling. You might catch something about morphing and setting up facial rigs, but what you really should be doing is studying facial anatomy and building stuff on your own. Also , if you have any questions about facial modelling or setting up blendshapes, there are plenty of experienced resources on CGTalk to answer them. All you need to do is ask.

While the work might be impressive in Poser, you should remember that it's a package designed for hobbyists and many assets floating around are brokered. There's no guarantee you won't learn a few bad habits from poor Poser setups. Some stuff for Poser is really good, other stuff is not so good. If you're just learning CG how will you know the difference?

[DaliFan]

Indeed clot. It is not personal despite what people want to think. This is pure deception. I am amazed he got away with it so long.

No wonder he works so hard on his textures

[lildragon]

Ok everyone, take a breather for a second. I know this is very disheartening, for me personally as well as I believed Strike was growing as an artist very rapidly, and even awarded him on occassions for his efforts and contributions to the challenges. I even awarded him Most improved Challenger

http://www.cgchallenge.com/article.php?article_id=16 and gave him an interview. So if there's anyone here that feels a sharp pain in their side it's me for having him pull the wool over my eyes.

NOW all I have to say is give him a chance to say something in his defense, that's all I ask, he has a right to defend his actions, although the evidence is so blatant it would be hard to ignore.

Strike buddy I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now, but you may well have tarnished your name just as quick as you made it.

We await your reply.

-lild

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by oracle
Here's my take on the whole thing.

In the CG community, Poser has been deemed as EVIL, and this is wrong! Some people can take Poser, and make it not look like Poser, and this is good thing. Personally I have no problem with it, as long as I am told where the model came from.

He didn't specifically tell us he modelled it, but he didn't tell us it was Poser either. This is not as bad as telling us he did, but still unacceptable. It is apparent from other work of his that he has a good artistic eye, and ability with his chosen software, so I don't know why he just didn't call it a texturing/lighting test with a Poser model.

Would have allowed him to save some dignity, but I still don't think this warrents this crucifixion of .::STRIKE::. and his talent... A simple request for his honesty (on this, and future works) would suffice.

Strike was called on the carpet before, and denied private allegations of misrepresentation. Even though it was obvious he was using Poser models in a Challenge, out of deference, the matter was left private. Having seen him repeat the misrepresentation, I see no need to facilitate it anymore.

[BoydLake]

Ok, Poser flap aside... I think the color post processing trick is rather clever. I'd like to see more samples of that in different lighting conditions.

[policarpo]

oh man.
oh woman.
oh beast.

why?

<shakes head and walks away.>

what did we learn from milli vanilli?
at least sigue sigue sputnik had no pretense.
and we all know where most DJ's get their grooves.

so why all the misdirection?

this just makes me sad. i didn't want to comment on this thread again, but after seeing the evidence and the exacting nature of the mesh and the distortions and muscle and such...i am just upset.

oh well...live and learn my daddy always said...
:shame:

it would have been so much easier to accept it if you just told us you were doing texture and lighting studies with existing models. :annoyed:

[Aevium Viemme]

Yeah ok. Sorry for all the defense, I guess I was in a little shock + denial. Evidence is there, case closed. :blush:

Nevertheless, nice textures and skin shader trick.

[Pent]

its still art...
nice

[rolhionjs]

Well... :)

Thanks to all of you for the strenght you put to proove i use poser. It's conforting me in my ideas... My last work (the subconscious natural history museum) was here for that : to qualify each of those who really are for normality... As soon someone use poser, it's a shame... but why ? Maybe due to this culture of being the best modeler ever... Poser is used in the industry and help alot in production time in different applications... But that's not the point... I'm judged here... just because i didn't say anything before, and just because this piece is looking too much at poser. Who are you to judge me ? You're just people like the others, just like me.... My own way, state of mind is to create, using all the tools i can find... Poser, Lightwave, Photoshop, 3dsmax, Xsi, maya... etc... are tools ... I have nothing to proove, or to say, i'm not seaking for a job nor want acclamations each time i post an image... Some of you are really this kinda of people who are happy to proove this guy, or this one is not better than you are finally... It's pity to see this kind of spirit in the art world... just because of words... and tools.....
but... finally... i'm happy to see i was right... See you all jalosors...

[SheepFactory]

well...

the question is NOT why you used poser.

The question is why you didnt tell us you used a premade poser model in the image.

[policarpo]

Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.
Well... :)

Thanks to all of you for the strenght you put to proove i use poser. It's conforting me in my ideas... My last work (the subconscious natural history museum) was here for that : to qualify each of those who really are for normality... As soon someone use poser, it's a shame... but why ? Maybe due to this culture of being the best modeler ever... Poser is used in the industry and help alot in production time in different applications... But that's not the point... I'm judged here... just because i didn't say anything before, and just because this piece is looking too much at poser. Who are you to judge me ? You're just people like the others, just like me.... My own way, state of mind is to create, using all the tools i can find... Poser, Lightwave, Photoshop, 3dsmax, Xsi, maya... etc... are tools ... I have nothing to proove, or to say, i'm not seaking for a job nor want acclamations each time i post an image... Some of you are really this kinda of people who are happy to proove this guy, or this one is not better than you are finally... It's pity to see this kind of spirit in the art world... just because of words... and tools.....
but... finally... i'm happy to see i was right... See you all jalosors...

Strike,

first off, you make nice art. you have a good eye for texturing and lighting and composition.

second, as any designer or artist will tell you, they always mention their sources that they work on. it's the nature of doing comp and experimental work as we hone specific skills..

i do plenty of lighting studies myself using canned or approved models, but i always credit my source material.

if you had just stated at the beginning that you were using models from your 3D library of animals and humans, none of this would have happened.

keep up the good work...and keep pushing yourself to get better at what you do...'cause you've already nailed look and feel in your work.

cheers,

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.
Well... :)

Thanks to all of you for the strenght you put to proove i use poser. It's conforting me in my ideas... My last work (the subconscious natural history museum) was here for that : to qualify each of those who really are for normality... As soon someone use poser, it's a shame... but why ? Maybe due to this culture of being the best modeler ever... Poser is used in the industry and help alot in production time in different applications...


You'll just have to point us where, because unless you're talking about architectural walk-throughs, accident re-constructions, or hobby content, I can't say I've ever noticed any original, professional character animation or production which has used Poser material without credit. I can't say as I have seen any quality character animation done using Poser assets that has pretended to be original. This justification won't work.



But that's not the point... I'm judged here... just because i didn't say anything before, and just because this piece is looking too much at poser. Who are you to judge me ? You're just people like the others, just like me....



Who are we to judge? As if to say "he who is without sin...."

This kind of moral superiority and arrogance is downright wrong. You've got a twisted sense of reality if you assume all of us accusing you are pretenders like you. You're seeking to point the finger elswhere rather than to apologize for misleading us and we're supposed to say "We're sorry Mr. Strike... please forgive us for not letting you lie to us....." Balderdash!




My own way, state of mind is to create, using all the tools i can find... Poser, Lightwave, Photoshop, 3dsmax, Xsi, maya... etc... are tools ... I have nothing to proove, or to say, i'm not seaking for a job nor want acclamations each time i post an image... Some of you are really this kinda of people who are happy to proove this guy, or this one is not better than you are finally...



This is even sadder than I thought. Now if we call you out, you're seeking yet another moral highground by claiming we're envious.... not even close. I would not want to be you.


It's pity to see this kind of spirit in the art world... just because of words... and tools.....
but... finally... i'm happy to see i was right... See you all jalosors...

Yeah, it is sad to see this spirit of deception in the art world. To bad it's nothing new.

I gotta hand it to you. That statement pretty much says it all. Good luck with that Poser gig.

[DaliFan]

Nice cop out

I am here to judge you for several reasons

A. On that link lil posted, software used : Lightwave , Photoshop (lies)

B. You make no mention on you're own website or here that you used poser. You only show screenshots of a mesh in lightwave. Totally trying to hide the fact.

C. You outright lied about using poser. No one forced you to lie, you did that

D. You broke the rules set up for the challenges. You decided to take the easy way out.

E. I got a pm saying a lot of you're skin textures were straight out of poser as well. So what did you do? Some render tweaking? A ship model?

Obviously not man enough to just say sorry. Instead you blame the people who admired you. Typical quilty childish retort. There are so many sites that you can flaunt poser art. This site is for people trying or working at their own complete meshes and art. I may suck but at least my work is mine.

Bah

[rolhionjs]

Just another thing : Look at the lenght of this thread since some people say i used poser.... And see before.... It's always like that : When there's a problem, there's always more replies... If i really did this character, modeled it, how many people would have answered to it ? But that's not the point yea...

[policarpo]

Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.
Just another thing : Look at the lenght of this thread since some people say i used poser.... And see before.... It's always like that : When there's a problem, there's always more replies... If i really did this character, modeled it, how many people would have answered to it ? But that's not the point yea...

here's an idea. the next time you post an image which contains a mesh not made 100% by you, just state something like this:

"I made this scene to test out a new skin shading technique and lighting effect. The model is from a 3D Library and has been tweaked and is for placement only."

Then we can look at the scene and critique properly.

Don't take on this air of artistic superiority, cause it will blow up in your face.

I mean come on, even Musicians mention where their samples came from these days.

[Aevium Viemme]

Lil note: on Johan Thorngren's site, some of his renders include models not made by him. Know what he writes at the bottom of the image? "Model by 3rd party"

It's that simple, I guess. Plus, Strike, I don't think people want to DISCOURAGE you, I think that they're just a tad upset you've fooled them (and me) into thinking that you made the model. It's not as criminal to me as it is to others here apparently, but I have to admit it's not a very nice thing to do.

Your art rocks, just mention the 3rd party ;)

[StealthPharaoh]

i have to admit that what u did is a real shame..
not for using poser but for lying about it and not bieng honest..
i believe before someone learn how to draw,paint,do 3d or any kind of art they have to be honest with themselves and to others..if u can't have respect and honesty then u're just not an artist..

but it's also kinda sad to see that some people who loved your stuff before, now they don't anymore just because they found out it was poser..

i think it's clear that u lied about it so don't try to defend yourself by blaming others..u should just apologize and hopefully u'll learn a lesson..

i liked a lot of your art..i'll still probably like them because well even if they were poser u managed to create something and u make them look nice as a final image..but i just don't respect u as an artist really..:hmm:

[Magius]

she's super HOT... reminds of Cathren Zitta Jones...

awesome dude!

(but why is the render the this... it's... dirty... )

[ODoul]

All this fuss is ignorant. Don't you guys have anything better to bitch about?

[MROGER]

Le problème c'est toi, pas les autres.

Il te suffisait d'indiquer clairement que tu utilisais un modele Poser mais non, monsieur préfère se faire mousser et nous prend réellement pour des abrutis.

Tu récoltes ce que tu mérites, on t'avait averti en plus sur 3DVF de bien indiquer tes sources, apparamment ça ne t'as pas servi de leçon donc acte.

Amuse toi bien maintenant.

[polygun]

Originally posted by 3D_Explorer
All this fuss is ignorant. Don't you guys have anything better to bitch about?

No.

He has made alot of people feel stupid for believing that he himself created his work. Alot of people looked up to him.

So, No. No, there is nothing better to bitch about.

[policarpo]

Originally posted by Michel ROGER
Le problème c'est toi, pas les autres.

Il te suffisait d'indiquer clairement que tu utilisais un modele Poser mais non, monsieur préfère se faire mousser et nous prend réellement pour des abrutis.

Tu récoltes ce que tu mérites, on t'avait averti en plus sur 3DVF de bien indiquer tes sources, apparamment ça ne t'as pas servi de leçon donc acte.

Amuse toi bien maintenant.

Michel:

Just wanted to say that i've loved your work since i found it many years ago. Keep up the great work, i've learned a lot from you!!:thumbsup:

[jason-slab]

:surprised

[MikeRhone]

This is shameful.

Dale Williams... You have a roommate.

[Onsloh]

Sorry for my ignorance mates.What's this about dale Williams then?:hmm:
Sorry to hear a guy get crucified like this.The art is beautiful still mates.:beer:

[clot]

The point isn't that the images don't look nice. They do.

The point is:

1. Lying to everyone.

2. Breaking CGChallenge contest rules.

3. Passing off someone else's mesh (Curious Labs) as his own.

Talk about a let down. Let's call it what it is. Plagiarism and lying at the very least.

Very poor form. And hopefully a lesson to other cheats out there. I mostly feel bad for the guys who lost to him in the Challenge. How can you compete with premade meshes with pre-built facial / body morphs and IK structures?

[-SOPHOCLE-]

:thumbsdow

[BinarySoup]

well, I do feel sorry for him, mainly because I never liked his stuff for the models which I felt lacked personal style (like poser models, go figure!), but for the lighting/texturing/atmosphere. also, in a community like this, where the main reward for your work is respect, from now on he will have none. no matter what stuff he churns out in the future, be it totally his work or not, he will always be the loser that tried to pass off poser models as his.

but as Michel so aptly pointed out, you reap what you sow...

[-SOPHOCLE-]

I'm not sure he used poser each time and in challenges neither... Look what he did : www.designpicture.com (http://www.designpicture.com)

[UserDelta]

sorry, then what is to be impressed about

model is impressive, but not your model.
texturing is ok, but nothing to be impressed about (nice pubic hair map) then im not sure you even painted it.
rendering needs improvement, hands look faceted (first image), skin looks a bit plastic and part looks painted while other parts look 3d.
deforms are pretty bad, (second image) armpit, elbows, side of ribs look flat, butt protruding too far.
not too excited about the lighting.

to be decieved leaves a sour taste, otherwise i might say nice looking images.

[UserDelta]

i like the works on your website far better.

[Laptop]

... sorry Strike,

but more words you are saying actually, more lying and moral of yourself, then saying the true things...

We asked and no answer from you... so don't say who we are!! If we point you out.

In my eyes you are great talented, but your actually way of how you say things like jealouse and so... you become more and more implausible thinking against you.

(... if somebodys name is Bil Gates and he have no understand of programming, its not the same if it is mister X somewhere... You are on TOP Rated position, so it's natural replying this thread and not at mister X)...

[Diffused]

I wish one of MY threads was this long...

:beer: Its all good.

[Wesball]

damn... I'd hate to be in Strike's shoes right now. :hmm:

I don't blame him though... I sure as hell hate trying to model human characters... ;) just kidding

Does anyone still model characters anymore... don't we all just use 3d scanners. ;)

[lildragon]

Ok people, .:Strike:. said his piece and I'm a little shock by his response I must say.

It's NOT about using Poser as most have pointed out, it's about outright lying to us, taking credit for something you didn't do and leading us under false pretence that it's all yours done in Lightwave.

.:Strike:. please take a minute and be honest with yourself and us, you stated you never used Poser to create your art, so can you tell us in all honesty that since the day you tried it and tossed it aside you never used it again?

Here's a quote by you

I can't really do things thought-up by others; I don’t see the fun in doing it.

Strike bud just admit you're wrong for misleading us and lying, I know it's going to be the hardest thing you have to do, but bud your reputation is about to crumble if you keep denying us that satisfaction. You stand a better chance to fess up now than to let it linger anymore.

I also see you changed your website asking if you used Poser (doing more harm than good I might add), your gallery which was hundreds long yesterday is now under 20 pics (this is more like it for someone who's been in 3D as long as you have), but what does that say?

Please I don't want to see you drown man, just come clean. Something you must learn very quickly about this industry, once you're blacklisted, you might as well look towards another career for awhile. Don't do that to yourself bud, since you already got a job as a result of this work.

-lild

[MaTaDoR]

does it really matter? his credibility is down the drain already and he's already used his "who are you do judge me" statement.

this is the same as changing the header on someone else's document, its still plagerism (sp)..

[lildragon]

Yes understood, just as in College plagiarism is frowned on here (and the penalties are harsh as well), all I want him to do is say he's wrong and too apologize. But you maybe right, he's already shunned us off. :hmm:

c'est la vie.

-lild

[CAClark]

All credibility and respect is gone. Apology will only serve to ease Strikes guilt (which it seems he has none). To me, he can not make up for this deception.

Cheers

[MattClary]

I just read the article below (and several links from it) yesterday that seems to fit this situation to a tee. I have no tolerance for liars, it's my big pet peeve. At the very least, you lied by omission, Strike. From now on, every piece of work you do will be heavily scrutinized by all of us.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2082741/

Edit: Strike, I just looked at your web site and the work there is very impressive. A LOT more impressive than the pic in this thread. Because of your deception here, I have to wonder if you really produced those models. See, it becomes a character issue. If you are caught in a lie once, people will always wonder if you are lying to them. Why would you take credit for a stupid freaking poser model when you can make stuff like what's on your web page?

[xtrm3d]

state of mind is to create, using all the tools i can find... Poser, Lightwave, Photoshop, 3dsmax, Xsi, maya...

hehe.. cool that you are able to "find" so much tool.. for our part we have to buy them..:shrug:

[Chewey]

Anyone here remember the movie "The Crying Game"?

:applause:

[Gelero]

ohhh come on guys!

:eek:

I guess you are taking this sittuation too far...

aren't you ?


PS: sorry about my english!

[Pufferfish]

Using Poser does not change the quality of Stikes work. His work is amazing even if he used some parts from poser.

Try to create something similar like his work. It aint that easy, not even with poser. You need something else than just a poser.

Of course I agree that lying and "stealing" ready made models and especially using them in contests IS something that only a fool would do...

..but still I wont spit on his work, I spit on cheating.


Creating art is good, lying is bad.

Hope you learned something Strike, but keep up your great artistic skills.

[monks]

bon pas grand chose à dire de plus strike.....je pense que tu aurais du citer tes sources et qu'il y aurait pas du y avoir autant de tapage autour de ça...50/50 quoi...bonne continuation !

[Obraxis]

We are digital artists - not software geeks. What does it matter if he used Poser to make images of a woman?

He didnt tell us....so? Its his art. It doesnt matter that programs he used. Modeling a woman takes an awful long time and if you have a spark of inspiration, sometimes you just want to create artwork quickly while you in the 'Zone'. I can see using Poser as a quick way of getting a woman on screen to make his art.

Lets not judge a person on the software they used to create an image. We havnt critisised Michelangelo about the types of paint he used.

[robkoni]

OK .......Useing poser does not change the quality of his work............hmmmm however its not his work.........its someone else's.
No its not easy turning out stuff like this ,I know ,sooooo,when you are working away trying to improve your craft ,and other people are building a reputation useing other peoples work ,then I'm sorry but it wrankles....:thumbsdow
Having said all that Strike seem's(not so sure anymore) like a very talented guy ..which kinda makes it even worse
Just dissapointed realy........(especialy with the childish response)
All the best Robin

[lildragon]

Originally posted by Obraxis
We are digital artists - not software geeks. What does it matter if he used Poser to make images of a woman?

Modeling a woman takes an awful long time and if you have a spark of inspiration



State that to your potential employer in your next interview. Start off by saying exactly what you said here.

And people how many times do we have to say IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PROGRAM HE USED.

I totally believed this was his work from ground up until it was exposed. It's the deceit we're talking about not the app in question.

An apology is all I'm asking for, I've gave Strike TONS of exposure and this is a blow to me.

-lild

[robkoni]

No your missing the point Obraxis.....NO IT IS NOT HIS ART.......its the person's who made that model ,your right ,it doesent matter what software you use, but useing other peoples models ,textures Animation or idea's does matter ,it matters a lot:shame:

[mora]

not sure why strike has'nt responded.probably the dude moved to new cyberspace where he can punk more people

[Zarathustra]

"A good artist copies. A great artist steals."
- Picasso

I've used pre-existing models in background layers as guides for some of my models. Perhaps he did something similiar?
You know, he probably altered the models or did what I described above and feels he did enough to claim it his. I dunno. That doesnt make it right, but it may be how he sees it. I really don't want to crucify him because I love his work and he has enough other things to make me think he can model when he wants to.
For whatever reason, he felt pressured to cut some corners and get more work out fast.
I don't approve of using other's models without a nod to the original creator, though.

Just try and see it from his view and create a better atmosphere for him to come clean. I think no one, no matter what they did, would appologize to an angry mob. I'd run and hide, too.
If he does come clean, then I don't think we need 20 more pages of everyone posting, "Ah-HA! I knew it! You're a @#$%"

[lildragon]

Originally posted by Zarathustra

If he does come clean, then I don't think we need 20 more pages of everyone posting, "Ah-HA! I knew it! You're a @#$%"

Believe me, it won't get to that, this thread would be closed immediately thereafter. Strike if you would like to send me a message privately I'm willing to hear what you have to say in a less defensive tone please. Just tell me the truth if you don't want to reply here.

-lild

[Obraxis]

lildragon, I do TOTALY understand what you have said man.

I can understand the way you feel and how everyone else feels.

Looking back on the thread in more detail, I have to say that I didnt read it properly. My apologies.

Having read it fully, Strike's original post was misleading, and posting of the wires was also misleading.

Strike man - were not juging you on the fact you used Poser at all. Your work is GREAT.

Maybe this is a good thing to happen: make people explain exactly what programs were used in the creation of the artwork in future - a requirement not a suggestion.

[iki]

I've seen your website Strike and although the work is very good. I have to say that after this incident I'm not sure whether I can believe the work is all your own.

The mesh is from Poser, the textures are from Poser. So why did you sign the work off as your own....?

Personally I get inspired and motivated by other peoples work. I would NEVER claim it as my own and that's what you did..! You're response was even more disappointing. sorry!

[buzzlightyr]

the guys so low

[reaver]

Looks like strike's done a Dale on us.

This stuff really pisses me off..... Theres me busting my balls learning to model posting work and getting my balls busted, sweating my guts out and this idiot is cleaning up, guys kissing his butt and he's using Poser models AND textures (yeah they're Poser textures)

Makes me sick.

I can't texture for squat as I've been too busy perfecting my modelling skills and the bum is winning awards, building a rep for work thats not even his.

Bravo!!!

If you've got any dignity left Strike I suggest you climb down off your high horse get down on your knees' and appologize

Btw dillergent work there clot. I wouldn't like to have you on my case:)

[r2d3]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.
[B]my last work under Lightwave.

so he told what app he was using to mislead the ones who where going to crit the picture
the guy just crys for attention and want people to cheer to him

his lightning and shaderenhancements (i suppose shader is from poser) are great
the rest of his work is also great but has lost all credibility

i cant understand the people who are saying yeah its poser but what the hell its digital art and it looks great while strike said it was done in lightwave with a lot of time and passion
he cheated and mislead a whole community and a lot of fans
how low can you go

i can understand lille dragon his point of view and you have my symphaties as well as it must be a great shock to you after you gave him that much credibility

finally my thanks goes out to a real inspiration michel rogers thanks to you we finnaly know the truth

to strike : your lucky to have another go if you appologise i think
but still i think you lost all credibility
have fun

[Lukashi]

I for one still feel like hes a great artist and im still a fan of his but I am disappointed about being deceived : /

[shujumy]

hhmmmmmmmmm i dont like this pic. :thumbsdow

[wgreenlee1]

:STRIKE:....

I'm no one to point a finger at anyone....
Ive used Poser myself when I first was attracted to 3D.
It was cheap and fun but I knew it was not real 3D art because it was someone elses.

Poser is like a painter cutting a part of an image and glueing it to their own-in my eyes....even if they to credit the real artist its still no of their own and thats why everyone that knows you is so upset.This is not your own.

Just as if someone was a great modeler and then stole/borrowed one of Leighs textures and put it their model then said to everyone..."this is what 'I' did".....that is not real or honest my friend.

I still love your work,I respect your talents,I dont respect your desicion on this one....


From now on I would just say 'it' is what 'it' is no matter what others want to say about it....but at least they will know what they are looking at....and they wont feel silly when they find a hidden like this or feel that they have found a hidden.


Looking forward to your next works as I always do.....

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by shujumy
hhmmmmmmmmm i dont like this pic. :thumbsdow

thats awesome. nobody cares if you dont like it. ever heard the saying, "keep to yourself if you have got nothing nice to say?"
same applies here. if you dont like the pic, then atleast give a constructive critique on ways to make it better.

[McSpirit]

:thumbsdow You guys suck.. this topic is filled with newcommers just dissing a guy who's work they havent even seen untill now. Stop acting like children and just let it pass.. It not cool what he did.. but so what, alot of his other work im preatty sure of that he didnt use poser for and it looks great.

and honestly if you used poser for a pic would you say so?.. no because people would flame you.

Spike have in a lot of his other work shown us that he can out model poser and if he one day feels that he wants to skip that part of the process.. well cool with me. Its how the final picture looks at the end, not how you got there that means something to me.. call it composing or what ever.

And poser isnt sucky.. i learned to model human heads by copying a poser figure vertex for vertex, polygon for polygon.

only thing where i feel he realy blew it is on the challenges.. that wasnt cool :thumbsdow

[Day-Dreamer]

jealous:rolleyes:

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by Day-Dreamer
jealous:rolleyes:

No.... it's Jalosor ;)

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by McSpirit


and honestly if you used poser for a pic would you say so?.. no because people would flame you.


actually this guy used to use poser, and the likes with his early art. hes been to digital extremes working on unreal tournament, and now is at ILM.
given enough effort, you can actually put the software to good use.
http://www.artsforge.com/ccards/media/p7026.jpg

http://www.artsforge.com/martin/mmdancers.jpg

theres nothing to be ashamed of.

( btw. if the thread doesnt return to the picture thats on the first page im gonna have to close the thread, the worst thing he did here is lied about the cgchallenge piece. its not like he slept with your mother.)

[Lukashi]

You probably should close it...its not gonna go back to the pic and its distrating alot from the other gallery items

[ambient-whisper]

good point. 3...2....1.....closed = )

one thing i want to say though. i hope strike and everyone can get over this. and hopefully we will see strike comming to us with completely kickass custom work soon.