Riggin Help::

[bobtronic]

Hi prayas,

Is your model a single mesh ?

Bob

[LucentDreams]

are you using the bone tool when making your skeleton, are you making sure they are fixed before leaving the bone tool are you moving the bones and scaling them before going back into the bone tool?

[prayas]

@bobtronic Yes my model is a single mesh. Only things not atached are eyelashes and the eyeballs.

@kaiskai used the bone tool first. after fixing the bones to thebody the mesh was scaled. does this happen because i scaled the bones and the get back in their original shape after fixing?
I got no idea why this happens.

Will send you the mesh if you like?
Will not post it on the talk.

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[LucentDreams]

did you fix bones while still in the bone tool? or by exiting the bone tool?

[prayas]

I normally make the bones with the bone tool and rotate them into position and scale them. Whem making a null bone or Root then them model is scaled. Will try again right now.

I need to get this stuff working. i like to pose my characters.

Thanks for the help first Kai.

Will be back with further questions.

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[prayas]

bob or Kai wanna take a look on the mesh?

Made my fifth atempt now. Hope i did main things right.

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[sanciok]

It happened to me something similar when i had some null bone on te hip. I'd change the null bone with a bone with 0 lenght.

When moving the bones, did u use the model tool or the object tool??

and... did u try to reset the bones and then fix it again?

[prayas]

I thought a null bone is some bone with no lenght?

Right now i made a setup with no null bones into it.

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[prayas]

Ok i decided to give you the mesh. ignore all mistakes in the mesh and help me to get it working. I don't know any further right now. Like to work it out with SoftIK someday but if i can't even work out with the bones how to get a cool and working SoftIK setup.

Willing to learn.:-)as usual.

I deleted maps and so on. Filesize 130kb

Mesh zipped (http://www.prayorpanic.com/_up_data/mesh_the_second.zip)

Thanks in advance. Please post things i did wrong. Maybe there are more people having similar problems.

@bobtronic. living in berlin bud? me to.

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[sinai_1]

My friend, you did not try following even the Mime tutorial to get hang of the most basic thing "naming convention/proper naming",....am trying the little i know to sort the rig out..

[bobtronic]

Originally posted by prayas
@bobtronic. living in berlin bud? me to.

Yep, East-Berlin / Lichtenberg - maybe meet someday ?

Ok, I will look at your file and let you know.

Bob

[bobtronic]

As Sinai has mentioned you should definitive name
the bones. Besides that as I can see your problem
is more wrong or bad deformations, right?

Bob

[prayas]

Sorry bout not "following even the basic steps".

I will follow RULE NR 1 RTFM and after that RTFMagain

Thanks for pushing me into that direction sinai_1

For the naming issue. do i really need to name every sub bone of the chain different? Lot of work but ok if it will help.

@bobtronic Charlottenburger Neuberliner. Ich bin im Moment noch recht viel am pendeln aber wir können uns gern mal treffen.

Bad deformation is a problem right but not the main issue i got here. I think i need to read trough that manual again and follow every step. Any tutorials of a full character or a single mesh rigged in MOCCA?

I will be back tomorrow. Maybe with a new propper named rig.

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[bobtronic]

Here is a tutorial I found some time ago on the
Cow forum. Its supposed to be a companion
for the Mime tutorial.

http://home.snafu.de/bobtronic/misc/mime_rig.zip

Bob

[sinai_1]

I need a place to upload the rig (prayas or anyone)..

[prayas]

Send it by mail. p@prayorpanic.com

I'll upload it.

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[sinai_1]

prayas, i've mailed it you(pls. read the mail)

[prayas]

Got your mail.

Here is the file.

Send you a mail back.

Link to the rig version sinai_1 made (http://www.prayorpanic.com/_up_data/mesh%20the%20second1_Final.rar)

I 'm busy now with learning all that stuff. Sounds like you are a pro?

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[sinai_1]

I 'm busy now with learning all that stuff. Sounds like you are a pro?

oh know,.....a pro, am not.Still learning, like most of us here(still have a long way ahead to reach that point.

[prayas]

ok you are still online. Leg setup finished right now. working as written in the mime tut. next step is the spine. one question left. how many bones for the spine. 3 are enough?

Not a pro. Man the words you wrote in the mail sounded like it. Like to see some work you did.

P..:

Not enough coffee here to work out the whole tut tonight. allready had a working day with a lot of work.

[prayas]

One more post 'cause i'm getting really pi**** of this thing now.

I'll post what i had after finishing the 2nd part of the tut.(the spine)

after spine part of the mime tut (http://www.prayorpanic.com/_up_data/new_try.rar)

I can't move the feet anymore and the head and torso aren't working.

I need much help tonight sorry. Maybe i should go get some sleep.

and ahhm if you see the mistake tell me please.

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[sinai_1]

Hey prayas, am looking at your mime tut now, hopefully 'll be able to tell you whats wrong with it.

Observation:....you did not set "rest" ROTATIONS STRENGTH for any of your of your SIK's(this is very important;take time to look at the file i made and if you select each SIK tag you'll see that they do have ROTATIONAL STRENGTH "rest" values)and you need to select FORCE POSITIONS on some of them(this all in the Attributes Manager; i'll suggest you keep switching between the one i made and yours,to compare what yours is missing.(this the first thing i noticed, still looking)

[bobtronic]

get some sleep prayas :)

looking at your file I see some obvious mistakes.
Like sinai mentioned the rest positions, some
hierachy errors, some target are lost. I will post
later my complete observations. Don't be frustated
the whole MOCCA thing isn't easy. Eventually I can
post you tomorrow a file because I will have access
to a full version of C4D R8 (only the demo at home).

Bob

[prayas]

@sinai_1 I think talking about setting the rest rotation strenght. Hmm i thought i did this cause it is a step mentioned in the tutorial. Will check this right now. I understood the function of this forcing positions of the bones but why is it done on the legs but not for the spine. At least the tut keeps this out.
The one problem i like to point at was is the thing that there is no effect of the controllers anymore. I made a mistake with the head bone. Got a wrong rotation. Reseted the bones manually and changed this rotation problem. After fixing the bones again none of the controllers had an effect. This is one thing i dont understand. I will go trough step by step again.

@bobtronic. got the sleep i needed. Nice to know that other find this chracter riggin stuff as difficult as i but when i first saw a full character done in 3d i thought the same about modeling one by myself. impossible? nothing is impossible at least with a good 3D package by your side.

I have seen some of the hierarchy mistakes. Will try to correct this.

So far.

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[prayas]

Ok encountered a problem. Made the setup for the leg again. and checked your rig sinai_1. Made a small test and activated SIK. worked. Ok fine. The tutorial said to get the bones back in their position select Reset to Rest State. After doing this the controller got no effect anymore? Bug or doing something wrong again?

EDIT :: got the solution. Maybe someone should have written that after i reseted to rest state i can't just activate the SIK button again and everything works again. I need to check use SIK in the SIK-Tag for the bones. Bulls***. Nice tut but starting to make me a bit mad.
EDIT ::


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[sinai_1]

prayas,the rig is better now(not from my effort) i got help from Jens Jung, the guy that did the Cinema 4D Dvd Tutorial for www.cgartist.de.He fixed the problem,now i know what the problem was(if you want, i'll mail the new one to you)....

...i'll advice you(if you have the money) or anyone interested in getting comfortable with Cinema's Soft IK to look into buying that Dvd tutorial( from the above URL), you'll learn a lot from it....

[prayas]

thnaks a lot for the help. I'm not permanently online right now. But plz send me the mail. I'll check the DVD.

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[sinai_1]

I've sent it to you, check your mail.

[prayas]

Thanks a lot first. just checked the mail and found a good setup.
Questions left on why the feets deform that way? I started to look on the head deformation and found some mistakes and also cleared the twisted hands.

If you can helps me withe the feet once again it would be great.

Will share the file later on.

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