CGTalk - Autodesk and Parallels Team to Support Mac Virtualization for 3ds Max

fahr

09-24-2009, 06:21 PM

Venkman

09-24-2009, 06:38 PM

At that point, most mac users can just dual boot into windows.

Parallels requires a windows install, doesn't it? What's the real benefit to running it virtualized?

BigPixolin

09-24-2009, 07:11 PM

At that point, most mac users can just dual boot into windows.

Parallels requires a windows install, doesn't it? What's the real benefit to running it virtualized?

I would imagine being able to run it without shutting down OSX and booting into windows.

705

09-24-2009, 07:20 PM

dont we have this already? whats the new stuff? just make the mac version and i'll be among the first to purchase ;)

and no, the performance hit is not that much.... (imho)

trthing

09-24-2009, 07:23 PM

Great: I have VMware... :rolleyes:

Venkman

09-24-2009, 07:40 PM

I guess the news is that they will actually support people who run it in Parallels. If you call up and say it's not working right in Parallels on your mac, they will no longer tell you to just run it in windows.

I guess that's neat.

inguatu

09-24-2009, 08:08 PM

we tried Maya in VMware Fusion... not just no but f*** no is what I told our IT department :)

so running 2010 in OSX now on a new MacPro, minus the awesome Mmmmtools (and roadkill) :\

Per-Anders

09-24-2009, 09:12 PM

Cant you already run 3d max with parallels? (Though I can't imagine why anyone would want to considering the performance hit you get)
Yes, and the performance hit really isn't that terrible from what I've heard, it's just virtualization so it shouldn't run that poorly provided you give it enough cores and memory, after all same deal with the Linux version of XSI. I believe Parallels supports the GPU too, though no idea to what extent.

BColbourn

09-24-2009, 09:39 PM

parallels, bummer. i'm running vmware like the rest of the world. and the definite benefit to this rather than dual-booting is being able to run both OS' at the same time. restarting my mac is such a choir, always keeping so many windows open usually.

tuna

09-24-2009, 09:40 PM

I believe Parallels supports the GPU too, though no idea to what extent.

This has always been the main problem with Parallels. The speed at which it can run OpenGL usually hampers what you can reasonably do with DCC apps inside it.

dprgb

09-24-2009, 09:43 PM

How ironic - I just 'broke' my Max license yesterday testing out VMWare on my Mac for just this (and Autocad) reason...

imashination

09-24-2009, 11:48 PM

Yes, and the performance hit really isn't that terrible from what I've heard, it's just virtualization so it shouldn't run that poorly provided you give it enough cores and memory, after all same deal with the Linux version of XSI. I believe Parallels supports the GPU too, though no idea to what extent.

I believe parallels has absolutely no multiple cpu/core support of any sort whatsoever. Do you really want to run 3d software partially emulated with basic opengl support on a single core machine?...

At least it confirms there wont be any real version on osx for a long time to come.

NSF

09-24-2009, 11:59 PM

parallels = no rebooting to switch OSs, it's just a window that runs inside OSX.
Maya = already comes in an OSX version, so don't run that in parallels/vmware

I'd imagine the reason for it is because Mac has long been the standard tool for 'creatives' and I can tell you having to re-boot rather than alt-tab every time you want to edit a texture is a pain in the proverbial.

The4thAggie

09-25-2009, 12:11 AM

I detest the Maya interface in Mac. It feels alien.

I'm sure VMware will come out with something in an incremental update or in the next version. Unity mode allows you to run an application as if it were viewed natively on your OSX Finder.

williamsburroughs

09-25-2009, 12:12 AM

I believe parallels has absolutely no multiple cpu/core support of any sort whatsoever. Do you really want to run 3d software partially emulated with basic opengl support on a single core machine?...

At least it confirms there wont be any real version on osx for a long time to come.

Umm...maybe read the site:

"Handle Heavy Workloads
FastLane architecture brings you maximum speed and performance on any Intel-Mac with support for 8 GB RAM and up to 4-way CPU."

Seems like it supports up to 8 cores

http://www.parallels.com/files/img/pdfm40/screenshots/8_way_cpu.png

ngrava

09-25-2009, 12:25 AM

I wonder if the performance hit is going away in the next version, especially if autodesk is officially supporting it.

Is parallels 64-bit? Can I render, say, a maya scene that requires 5-6 gigs of ram through parallels? Or will it crap out at 2.5 gig, just like it does on the mac?

I thought it was 4 gig per app on a Mac?

And yes, I'm pretty sure Virtualization on a Mac isn't at all like running one of those old school PC emulators. Since Mac's are Intel based now it's basically just an OS translation layer kind of like Wine on Linux or Cygwin/MinGW on windows. There's even a port of Wine to OSX called darwine. Parallels and VMWare just make their OS layer much closer to the hardware so you can just use the original OS in question inside of it. So, there are obvious benefits. ;)

imashination

09-25-2009, 10:39 AM

Umm...maybe read the site:

"Handle Heavy Workloads
FastLane architecture brings you maximum speed and performance on any Intel-Mac with support for 8 GB RAM and up to 4-way CPU."

Seems like it supports up to 8 cores

http://www.parallels.com/files/img/pdfm40/screenshots/8_way_cpu.png

Which site? I scoured the parallels site searching for "core", "cpu" and "multi" and not a single mention of support of multiple cpus or cores was mentioned anywhere. Not on the main page, the faqs, any of the features pages. The only mention I found was that would could launch multiple copies of parallels with each VM dedicated to a different core.

And, the fact that the screenshot you include has a great big black and yellow "!Experimental!" warning tag next to it doesnt inspire confidence, especially considering super stable app its going to be running.

ulb

09-25-2009, 06:18 PM

Why bother with those stupid macs? Make a version for linux!

williamsburroughs

09-25-2009, 06:24 PM

Which site? I scoured the parallels site searching for "core", "cpu" and "multi" and not a single mention of support of multiple cpus or cores was mentioned anywhere. Not on the main page, the faqs, any of the features pages.

The Parallels site of course. :)
http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/features/performance/

This feature does seem a little vague though:
"Handle Heavy Workloads
FastLane architecture brings you maximum speed and performance on any Intel-Mac with support for 8 GB RAM and up to 4-way CPU."

fahr

09-25-2009, 06:28 PM

Why bother with those stupid macs? Make a version for linux!

Oh look, a troll.

Per-Anders

09-25-2009, 06:29 PM

Why bother with those stupid macs?
Because OSX is more prevalent than Linux so they hope to make more sales that way? And...
Make a version for linux!
...they haven't actually made a version for OSX. They're just supporting use of a virtualization tool. I'm sure that they'll start "supporting" users that use Wine in due course too if there are enough of them that is.

trthing

09-25-2009, 07:42 PM

Did anybody see any comments about the time-frame availability of this "feature" (I mean, not breaking Max license) on Parallels site?

Sharky0815

09-25-2009, 07:56 PM

Because OSX is more prevalent than Linux so they hope to make more sales that way? And...

...they haven't actually made a version for OSX. They're just supporting use of a virtualization tool. I'm sure that they'll start "supporting" users that use Wine in due course too if there are enough of them that is.

Actually there is a big difference between WINE and virtualisation. Softimage's linux version doesn't use virtualisation but something more akin to WINE. wikipedia has more on this.

robodesign

09-25-2009, 08:14 PM

Oh look, a troll.
And yet, another troll !

Seriously, Mac should be the first step, but Linux the purpose. Linux is *the* thing.

SheepFactory

09-25-2009, 08:20 PM

And yet, another troll !

Seriously, Mac should be the first step, but Linux the purpose. Linux is *the* thing.

I feel otherwise every day I have to work with linux at work.

Kel Solaar

09-25-2009, 09:03 PM

Which site? I scoured the parallels site searching for "core", "cpu" and "multi" and not a single mention of support of multiple cpus or cores was mentioned anywhere. Not on the main page, the faqs, any of the features pages. The only mention I found was that would could launch multiple copies of parallels with each VM dedicated to a different core.

And, the fact that the screenshot you include has a great big black and yellow "!Experimental!" warning tag next to it doesnt inspire confidence, especially considering super stable app its going to be running.

For the peeps that doubt about Parallels Multi Processing Abilities :

http://thomasmansencal.com/Sharing/Pictures/sIBL_GUI_Parallels.jpg

I was IBL Rendering in XSI on my MacBook Pro ( Dual Core )

Oh and that screenshot earlier in the thread is outdated, there is no Experimental stuff or whatever...

KS

PixelTricks

09-26-2009, 02:49 AM

Seeing how I detest the performance of Max 2010 on windows 64 bit I hate to see its performance running on top of another OS. I have been a 9 year max user but 2010 has just made me shake my head as to what autodesk is thinking.

Kai01W

09-26-2009, 12:12 PM

I feel otherwise every day I have to work with linux at work.
Huh? I could not care less at work which OS I am using. 95 % of my time I don't use the "OS" and just stay in my main application. Plus at the big companies there is usually a lot of pipeline and custom stuff that minimises my need to use OS functions. Furthermore the machine is already set up up and supported so that I do not have to deal with the more complicated technical underpinnings of linux.
So if I used flame on IRIX or now Shake or Nuke on Linux I really did and do not care that much which OS it runs on. The 5% of my time I do need the OS I am glad if I have at least a decent filemanager, and honestly I think the finder is not that great compared to i.e. the konqueror or even the explorer on windows.
Sure I am a compositor but I cant imagine your life as an animator to be much different...
Things are different if you are more of a one man show freelancer but in the big companies where I am supposed to do one thing and just that I am happy to use linux or whatever....

-k

imashination

09-26-2009, 12:17 PM

For the peeps that doubt about Parallels Multi Processing Abilities :

Woo, I stand corrected then. You'd think they would shout about such a thing on their website somewhere though?

DizzyJ

09-26-2009, 05:05 PM

The 5% of my time I do need the OS I am glad if I have at least a decent filemanager, and honestly I think the finder is not that great compared to i.e. the konqueror or even the explorer on windows.

That's where the WIN is in Autodesk supporting Max under parallels. When I'm working on a Windows system, Explorer is the one part of the experience that annoys me. I find it much less quick to work with than Finder. And when I work with programs that use the UNIX file system instead of the Finder, I experience the same lack of efficiency. Parallels doubles the number of systems you can use Max on, making it more likely a given user will be able to find a workflow that's effective.

Is there any licensing reason you couldn't boot into Windows if you're going to do an overnight render and want to cut out any inefficiency from the virtualization?

Kel Solaar

09-26-2009, 06:23 PM

Woo, I stand corrected then. You'd think they would shout about such a thing on their website somewhere though?

Agreed :)

KS

kromekat

09-28-2009, 12:08 AM

Now if it were XSI I might be vaguely interested.

:rolleyes: Adam

Kel Solaar

09-28-2009, 07:18 AM

Now if it were XSI I might be vaguely interested.

:rolleyes: Adam

I'm using it through Parallels, and it's really slow on the MacBook Pro. It's viable for Development, Addons / Plugins Compilation and Build even to launch some renders but it's definitely slow.

KS

DrBalthar

09-28-2009, 05:01 PM

Interesting I wonder how they will manager the GPU virtualization since DirectX is pretty imune against virtualization.

renderdan

09-29-2009, 01:23 AM

I'm sure the main motivation for autodesk is to hopefully sell a few more licenses. unless there us something special about Parallels I don't understand, it will be pretty slow compared to the same machine running it native in windows. if it were a wine type solution that would be a different story. i've used photoshop and zbrush in linux/wine, and the peformance was awesome.

I could not care less at work which OS I am using. 95 % of my time I don't use the "OS" and just stay in my main application

i agree with this 100%. for getting work done all that matters is that the platform runs the required software, is fast, stable, has a file browser that does the job. sometimes i think mac heads are way to inclined to complain whenever a program doesn't have a brushed aluminium cocoa native interface. linux, windows, osx, they're just tools, being able to use more tools is a good thing!

trthing

10-01-2009, 04:49 PM

Now, seriously: is this functional already? Max license won't break running under Parallels right *now*?

I couldn't find a definite answer about this...

thepixelpusher

01-01-2010, 08:43 AM

Why bother with those stupid macs? Make a version for linux!

Max 2010 Already Runs Natively On A Mac
No need for a Macintosh version of Max 2010, the Mac already runs it natively under a Windows partition on the Mac (BTW it screams in speed). The Mac has the same Intel architecture as your regular PC's plus some extra code on the motherboard for the Mac OS X. You can run Linux on a Mac too. Mac OS X, Windows, Linux...The Mac is the machine if you want to have it all.

So in reference to your "stupid Mac" comment. Your PC box will not run all those operating systems natively nor run all those operating systems programs natively all in one box like a Mac can.

Have to say that I'd have no problem booting natively into Windows on my Mac to avoid the small slowdown that the emulation programs have. For those that complain of a slow down in productivity I only have to say you can boot and reboot into the other operating systems very fast with the MacPro if you want to run Max 2010 natively with full speed and no slowdown. Running them under emulation should be pretty fast if you have a newer MacPro, though I'd like to see by trial experience that there isn't any issues in doing it that way first (i.e. issues with Max Windows 3rd party plug-ins working and all).

I love working in Mac OS X, Windows, or Linux. My favorite used to be IRIX from SGI. "Whatever gets the job done" is my motto.