HMC 22: Classic Self Portrait - Paul Robinson

[robo3687]

my inspiration

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Beethoven_death_mask4.jpg/402px-Beethoven_death_mask4.jpg

[robo3687]

3.5 hours later and here i am, literally....lol....

still needs a lot of tweaking and its still only the face but i think it looks like me.....

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1867/001un.jpghttp://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9273/002uv.jpg

[robo3687]

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2441/003bp.jpg

the whole bust....minus base

[DisturbeD2k]

Really impressive so far, there is a def likeness.
Looking forward to seeing more.

Only crit I supose is that the philtrum (the indent of skin between the upper lip and bottom of the nose) looks a bit sharp and defined compared to the reference.

But at the same time I think it suits the model.

Take care

[robo3687]

thanks marco...

it is a little sharp isn't it? i swear i made it smoother than that....lol....i guess it just changed somewhere along the line...i'll fix it up....

also i was just noticing I think my eye's are too close together and I might be a little cross eyed...lol

i gave the model the ultimate test and asked my mum who it was...and thankfully she recognized it as me....lol

[moonangel]

good start, it is pretty recognizable.

I think the nostrils of your model, and the piece of flesh forming them (wow, how do you call all these things? ) are to wide, i think you nose looks more "straight" and not so "blobby" (aww, man, i definately have a lack of english words in human anatomy :argh: )

[WyattHarris]

Yeah, I think the nose looks more like Beethoven's than yours. Mouth is good likeness but yeah, you are a bit cross-eyed. :D

[Intervain]

a good start and I have to say I'm all for interpretation rather than literal self-portrait so I won't crit the likeness at all... it can't be you and a Beethoven at the same time it has to be a conglomerate of the 2. I like the choice btw - it's a nice bust :)

[robo3687]

@moonangel - i've fixed up the nose a bit, and as for the blobby/straight thing, i smoothed it out a little but i was just feeling my nose and it is a little blobby...lol...

@WyattHarris - lol....i have now fixed the eyes...

@Intervain - thanks Mag, good to have you comment on my stuff, I have a lot of your stuff in my "inspiration" folder...and i looked at probably 30 or 40 beethoven busts before i found this one....its actually based on his death mask which i find kind of cool...

here's where it sits at the moment, I've adjusted the eyes (mine droop a little more than i had them) and the chin

i'm also liking the new skin matcap that came with ZB3.5 has a nice feel to it....

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4330/004cz.jpg

i look quite evil with no hair.....lol...plus i haven't been cleanshaven for years...

[robo3687]

i couldn't stand looking at myself without ears any longer

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6751/005ld.jpg

[robo3687]

well....ignore everything i've posted until now.....zbrush just crashed during a save and i lost everything......i guess i'll start it again in a few days....

[Intervain]

oh joy of crash on save ;) - sorry to hear that... just to be sure, are you using CTRL+S button to save by any chance? if so stop hehe - the safe way is to use the Save as Button in the tools palette - that way I've never had a crash on save :) just thought I'd throw it out there

[robo3687]

nah i always use the save as button

[Intervain]

woah that's a new for me then... sucks either way

[TiMrozek]

I feel like sometimes it happens if you save while at the highest subdivision level. Or maybe this was just a freak crash. Regardless, sorry man, it was looking pretty great. Oh well, not it will just be better.

[grantmoore3d]

Sorry to hear that, was looking great :(

One thing I always do, is save versions, every time I've done a semi-major amount of work, I save a new version. Can't tell you how many times this has saved me.

[Intervain]

Yeah saving version's good. One other thing - when saving make sure you don't have an alpha selected in your alpha palette. The guys at Pixo said it makes Zbrush think a lot harder on save and causes a lot of crashes, because it has to ask you if you want to save the alpha with the tool...

[DisturbeD2k]

Jeez....thats really heart breaking. Sorry to hear about that.

[WyattHarris]

I know its a bummer when it happens, and so far something like this has happened every challenge, but the second time you make the model is always better. Sort of like getting back on the horse I suppose.

[robo3687]

lol it does always seem to happen to me doesnt it?

[Nothingness]

Too bad to hear about your loss :curious:
The main reason i save in a different version many times. Sometimes annoying because for large models the gigs creep up.


Not sure if it's mentioned before, but aren't you getting into detailing a little too soon? I think it creates too many problems going backward and forward in subdivision while sculpting.
You also get a little lost with the overall shape. You spend a little too much focus on details.
This way, you can get ALL the detail right, but mis the overal shape.

hope you don't loose the faith

[WyattHarris]

lol it does always seem to happen to me doesnt it?
Whoops, I just realized I worded that like I was talking about you when I meant me. I seem to have the same problem every challenge but it does make one even better. Now if only I would write down exactly what causes my crashes every time I'd be getting some where.

[robo3687]

@Nothingness - in regards to the detailing, it just seems to be how i work these days, i used to try the sculpting 1 sub-d level at a time method but was always frustrated that i wasn't getting there quick enough....so now i tend to just ramp up the sub-d's and then start with one area (say the nose) and flesh that right out and then move around the face......i think for the original i started with the nose, then the mouth and then to the eyes....

i find it easier that way to get specific details right rather than trying to define everything at lower levels......but yeh its just the way i've ended up working...


now i plan on starting this one again tonight but here's something i just found, zbrush recovered a copy of the document so i still have a little memento of what was, so here's where i was a up to before the crash...

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1793/006un.jpg

i don't suppose there's a way i can yank that out of the document?....lol...that'd be nice...

[robo3687]

finally got around to starting again.....lol....started as i did before with the nose and mouth

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/255/007qz.jpg

[PKT]

Looking good man!

[PeterR]

yup, keep going :)

[RexDiem]

Hurray! Keep it up, this sculpt will be better than the last. I liked your last sculpt, but glad you have started again.

[robo3687]

thanks guys

heres a little bit more done

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/565/008uve.jpg

the lower lip has gone a little funny at the sides, but i'll fix that up

[robo3687]

and a teency bit more, and another shot with the marble matcap i found

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9907/009gkr.jpghttp://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3346/010hw.jpg

[moonangel]

nice second start :D
i think in your old one, the eyes were smaller? or the forehead was taller. :)

[TiMrozek]

Damn Paul, 3rd page before anyone else has hit 2? Cheers to that :beer:
Sculpt is looking spot on again. Well done in getting back to where you started. May all your files remain stable from here on out.

[shards]

very nice progress here dude..is there somewhere i can download that marble matcap you're using? looks awesome!

[arun-nagar]

It's coming out great, keep up:thumbsup:

[robo3687]

thanks guys

i've been hanging out to post this all day but our internet's been playing up and either going 20 times slower than dialup or just not working at all....but it appears to have come good again now.....

got a lot done today without the distraction of the internet though so here's where i'm up to now....

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5093/013unv.jpg

[robo3687]

@Shardana, I think i found the marble matcap on the Pixologic website.....give me a sec and i'll grab a link for it....

alrighty, this should give a little hint as to where i'm going with this....i figured since i'm basing my model off of a sculpt of a composer, I would sculpt myself as a composer.

Now i don't compose music I compose 3d artwork, so I thought I'd present myself as I am most of the time when I'm working.

First piece of that is the iPod headphones, I'll be adding an ipod touch to the base as well as maybe a mouse and my graphics tablet, something like that......lol

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5954/014lyo.jpg

[WyattHarris]

Dang, that is a brilliant idea, nice one Robo. :thumbsup:

Also, I think your second attempt is far superior than your first. Nice recovery.

[Intervain]

haha I was thinking about something similar for mine hehehe - but then thought nah, not with that dress... good idea!

[robo3687]

thanks guys, glad you liked my idea.....

i want to try and do a bit of hair sculpting today but i think i might do a few test sculpts on a sphere first because i want to try and match the style from the beethoven sculpt.....

[robo3687]

alrighty, first pass at hair, just blocking in the main shapes and such for now, will put some detail in later, or it may not need detail and just some sharpening up....

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4448/015wg.jpghttp://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5286/016wq.jpg

[robo3687]

and some facial hair.......possibly need to punch it up a little as its a bit hard to make out at the moment, but i do have it trimmed fairly close at the moment

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7763/017lp.jpg

[grantmoore3d]

Wow that looks really good! Do you have any tips on how to build up the hair like that?

[robo3687]

well after playing around with a few old brushes (claytubes, standard etc) i stumbled across my new friend for hair in 3.5, the SoftClay brush....

i was really surprised at how it worked and its allows for a nice quick buildup of material

my basic process for the hair was draw a big comma, smooth it out a bit and then using Alt, dig into the inside edge of the comma....

[robo3687]

i've given the hair a once over with the clay tubes brush, sharpening the shapes up, and also went over the goatee and eyebrows with the slash2 brush to help define those a bit more too...

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1457/018ofb.jpg

[RexDiem]

Nice progress! I am totally digging the stylistic curls of your hair. Also you did a nice job at bringing up the facial hair and making it easier to see. However, the perimeter around the block of your goatee are very perfect. Even if you are amazing at shaving I think you would have slightly more variation close to the edge line. Maybe just adding some asymmetrical marking would give this effect too.

[PKT]

Very nice work on the hair and beard man!

[WyattHarris]

However, the perimeter around the block of your goatee are very perfect. Even if you are amazing at shaving I think you would have slightly more variation close to the edge line. Maybe just adding some asymmetrical marking would give this effect too.
That would normally be a good point except that these are supposed to be sculptures and the sculptor may decide to make it that smooth. But a little variation would look better.

[RexDiem]

Wyatt: Good point. I agree with you.

[robo3687]

haven't worked much on this the last couple of days as i've been finishing up my course....

but here's a tiny update.....added a stand (probably only temporary)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5223/019cei.jpghttp://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6567/020na.jpg

[sanketpro3d]

looking pretty gud so far ... :-)

[Intervain]

looking good :)

[TiMrozek]

They round symmetry of your stand and the marble shader you are using makes me think this is part of a pricey chess set. Lookin good.

[robo3687]

tim you may have just set a ridiculous plan into action......

that or come up with an awesome idea for a future challenge :buttrock:

[moonangel]

haha, model your whole family, print them and get your personalized chess-game :D

[TiMrozek]

robo: Ha, that would be a pretty awesome challenge, create an original chess set. it would be perfect for all the 3D print talks we've been having. I think that challenge might have to exceed one month.

moonangel: exactly!

[arun-nagar]

looking awesome robo

people are giving good ideas:lightbulb ........ I think:scream:

[Intervain]

robo: Ha, that would be a pretty awesome challenge, create an original chess set. it would be perfect for all the 3D print talks we've been having. I think that challenge might have to exceed one month.

moonangel: exactly!

actually I believe I suggested chess a few pages back in the ideas thread - I win :p

[TiMrozek]

I knew someone suggested it. You do indeed win. I lay down my sword at your feet.

[RageOfAges]

Rob, this is a massive improvement on your sculpting from previous challenges. It's fantastic to be able to watch your skill progress.

-Rage

[robo3687]

thanks Joel, I really feel like i've come a very long way with my sculpting so its good others are noticing

[robo3687]

okay, here's some updates, looking back at my Beethoven reference

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Beethoven_death_mask4.jpg/402px-Beethoven_death_mask4.jpg

i noticed the layering of clothes was something that was missing from mine...so i've started working on that, for now i've added a polo shirt over the top of the t-shirt, and will probably be adding a jacket over the top of that.....

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3988/021ta.jpg

[robo3687]

added the beginnings of the jacket

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6523/022lb.jpg

[zszs]

Hi guy,I want to see your work, but I can not see any of your pictures.
:sad:

[moonangel]

just try another time, sometimes the servers are busy, i can see the images.

hey robo, will you tilt your head a little downwards and turn it a little to the side like your ref?

[Intervain]

yeah I agree, it would give it a lot of expression

[robo3687]

yep i was thinking of doing that, and making myself look a little disgruntled too

[robo3687]

head tilted, turned and disgruntled....now with proper eyes...much happier with it now, still have to reposition the headphones though

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4008/023gy.jpg

[RexDiem]

heck yeah! this is way better with the posed face and expression. The jacket seems less realistic than the rest of it, did take a picture with your jacket on? That might help. I know you are probably still working on it, adding a zipper might be cool.

[robo3687]

thanks deanna, i've still got a long way to go on the jacket...it's supposed to be cold here tomorrow so hopefully i'll be able to put it on and look at my webcam again to get it right....lol....

[YoongKunKim]

wow, it is really Impressive !

I like a look of your face ,,

my concept is music too !

anyway good job so far , nice work !

[robo3687]

worked on the clothing some more and reposition the headphones

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4753/024fb.jpg

[PKT]

Thats a really nice peice man!

[robo3687]

was just playing around with the rendering in zbrush and put a few passes together to come up with this, i'm trying to get a similar moody look to whats in my ref...

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7568/025qv.jpg

[Intervain]

nice I think a bit more tilt to the head would give him a bit more character - so he looks more down like the Beethoven sculpture also I think giving the hair more variation - more thinner hair strands in the current structure - since you have small hairs on the face it would make it more cohesive as a whole... keep going:)

[robo3687]

thanks Magda, i took your ideas on board and tilted the head more and started adding some detail to the hair (will put up a full picture once the hair is done)

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/395/026u.jpg

i'm thinking i might have to retopo the head soon as i had to go up to 8 million polys to get the hair like it is but even then its still faceting a bit....

[robo3687]

okay here's the full shot of where my model stands at the moment, bigger render this time....

throws crits, suggestions and whatever at me about what i could add/change/make better

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/6044/renderx.jpg

[WyattHarris]

First thing you need to do now is bump it up one more level to smooth out the aliasing on the hair but that's no biggy.

Looking really good Robo. You've done a good job matching the mood of the original.

[Nothingness]

okay here's the full shot of where my model stands at the moment, bigger render this time....

throws crits, suggestions and whatever at me about what i could add/change/make better


Well, since you ask anyway,

i still think there is a little more work needed around the eyes. I think the eyes themself (maybe not the eyeball) is proportionally too big for the head, and that makes the shape around it not really correct. Then between the eye and the nostril, is a strange shape. It looks more like a brush-stroke than a certain skin-fold.

Oh, and a little more detail so smooth out the ussues at the top hair. Then you could also create some more refined facial hair as well.

[robo3687]

the problem i have with the faceting on the hair is that i had to bump the model up to 8 million polys just to get that detail....i don't know if my computer could handle another sub-d level....

would doing a retopo and adding extra geo in be a good idea in this situation? I'm still relatively new to Zbrush so I don't know all the little tricks and such to get the most out off your model efficiently......

i'll try shrinking the eyes a tiny bit to see if that helps, and i see what you mean about the bit between the eye and the nose, will fix that up......

thanks for the crits guys....

[Nothingness]

I think a retopo will be just great. This also makes the poly-count higher so be careful with it. Maintly, just check how many subdivisions you have, and you can do a pro-calculation of what you'll end up with.
Thing you need to know about zbrush and retopo is: make sure your model has as little holes in the mesh as possible. They are such a hell to fix.

[robo3687]

well i should be alright with the holes because the whole model (apart from the headphone and base) is just the one mesh, no subtools....

[RageOfAges]

Rather than retopo you can extract a portion of your mesh if you like. I don't currently have ZB on hand right now, however with a google search you could find out how. If you select the hair polys with the lasso tool, you could extract the hair portion of the mesh and apply it as a subtool. This could potentially give you 1 more division for the head, and a few extra divisions for the hair, providing you with enough geometry in both areas.

Depending on how much time you have for this challenge, you could even do both options, and see which you like more. It would also give you practice using some of Zbrush's less prolific, yet equally as powerful, traits.

-Rage

[robo3687]

y'know i quite like that mesh extraction idea....seems like it would be a lot quicker too....

will try it out tomorrow....i've been working on other models today to give myself a break...

[Nothingness]

Main difference is: doing a retopo wil keep your model looking like 1 solid piece of material like a sculpture is usually made of. With a separate mesh you always get a more accentuated line between the subtools.

[WyattHarris]

the problem i have with the faceting on the hair is that i had to bump the model up to 8 million polys just to get that detail....i don't know if my computer could handle another sub-d level....
:argh: Whoa, 8 million? That seems pretty high for what you are modeling. Not that the amount makes it better or worse. I haven't seen any mesh or frame screens so I can only guess the problem is down to flow. So like everyone else is saying, fix that by retopologizing. If you modeled the whole thing in ZBrush without a base then I would guess that you have the grid pattern for your poly flow right now. For future reference the best way to handle that is to retopologize at a lower detail level so when you bump up the details the flow is still good.

[Intervain]

any progress? ;) - thought I'd nudge ya on a bit

[robo3687]

lol thanks Magda, i had a few days off to work on some other things (and play Uncharted 2....lol)but i will be getting back onto this today....

[robo3687]

ARTIST NAME
Paul Robinson

ORIGINAL CONCEPT ART
Inspiration was a bust made from Beethovens death mask.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9224/finalconcept.jpg

BEAUTY RENDER
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/871/finalsmall.jpg

HIREZ RENDER LINK
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3728/finallarge.jpg

ORTHOGRAPHIC RENDERS
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2053/finalorthos.jpg

WIREFRAMES
This is it really....lol...
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4820/finalbase.jpg

WIP THREAD
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=809259

DESCRIPTION
I wanted to portray myself in my "composing" state to match the idea of the original being a bust of a composer, hence the headphones as thats how i generally work.

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