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cyartist
09-10-2009, 12:59 PM
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=074989

DanielWray
09-10-2009, 01:04 PM
Alot of nice new features in there.

Can't wait until i can purchase the student version :)

BigPixolin
09-10-2009, 01:08 PM
Now we have to wait possibly a day or two for the email. I love/hate pixologics way of doing things.

hotknife
09-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Why do we have to wait for an email ?
How come the upgrade isn't just on a server for people to download as most software companies do ? Surely it's the same for everyone....just a different serial to put in ???

bisenberger
09-10-2009, 01:30 PM
going to be a fun weekend :applause::beer::cool:

Bucket
09-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Yeah.. That's good news.. But you have to admit that it's bad that 3.5 PC is missing features that are in most recent Mac version... GoZ.....

INFINITE
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
Amazing update, shame the page is down.

pnoland
09-10-2009, 01:59 PM
Well, there goes my productivity for the rest of the week. Now I'm just going to be checking my email every 15 minutes! I wish we did get GoZ right away but with the other features I can be patient until they release it as well. :)

PixelTricks
09-10-2009, 02:04 PM
seems site is either overwhelmed or down.

cookepuss
09-10-2009, 02:04 PM
Yeah.. That's good news.. But you have to admit that it's bad that 3.5 PC is missing features that are in most recent Mac version... GoZ.....
Yeah, but the wait shouldn't be that long - even by pixologic standards. It was almost ready to go a while back and has already been available for the Mac for a while. Depending on how much of a spit polish it needs, it could still be out at the end of this month or the beginning of next.

Why do we have to wait for an email ?
I'm just speculating here, but maybe they're sending out in batches to prevent server overload. Right now, even with no confirmed downloads, the pixo servers are screaming.

Teyon
09-10-2009, 02:25 PM
While I love the free updates, charging every so often would allow them to upgrade the servers for higher bandwidths....especially when they know they're going to need it. I agree that their method of upgrading is a bit...clunky.

plunq
09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
Yeah.. That's good news.. But you have to admit that it's bad that 3.5 PC is missing features that are in most recent Mac version... GoZ.....

They have said it's coming. Plus, if you are using Zbrush with Maya you can now save out .ma files directly from Z. So really, nothing to complain about, especially for an upgrade you didn't have to pay for.

Can't wait to see what people start doing with the new Planar brushes!

Bucket
09-10-2009, 03:14 PM
So really, nothing to complain about, especially for an upgrade you didn't have to pay for.



A zbrush license costs money...

plunq
09-10-2009, 03:26 PM
A zbrush license costs money...
So, did you buy a copy of Zbrush 3.5 or was it 3 or 2 or 1.something...
Anyway, GoZ is coming soon, I can't wait to use it with Modo 401!

ambient-whisper
09-10-2009, 03:30 PM
So, did you buy a copy of Zbrush 3.5 or was it 3 or 2 or 1.something...
Anyway, GoZ is coming soon, I can't wait to use it with Modo 401!

you using 401? for some reason i cant get myself to use it. ive been sticking to 302 due to the extra stability ( and the fact that ive customized it so much that i dont feel like redoing the setup for 401 :D )

hows it treating you?! I bought it, but its been sitting there waiting for 402-403 to arrive. i need something stable.

cresshead
09-10-2009, 03:56 PM
re the support server from
AURICK >>

Not down. Just very, very busy. http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/images/smilies/smile.gif

Something that will help everyone is to not submit any "where's my upgrade email?" tickets for the first couple of days. Until Cleverbridge has finished sending them all out we cannot assist with such tickets anyway. So submitting them only bogs down the system and delays us being being able to help everyone.

We will get everyone upgraded! There's just a lot of demand and only so much server capacity.

mecos
09-10-2009, 04:53 PM
Yeah.. That's good news.. But you have to admit that it's bad that 3.5 PC is missing features that are in most recent Mac version... GoZ.....


i used the GoZ in mac once and i think it's mostly an applescript recording plus the export/import implementation within zbrush and that's why it's fully implemented in os x. i'm most likely wrong.

Teyon
09-10-2009, 07:24 PM
I keep opening 401 and closing it. It's just faster for me to model in Silo right now but I like 401 myself. :)

As for GoZ - not a big impact on my life if it's not there (I've done fine without it so far) but it will help down the road once it arrives. I just wish I'd get my blasted email so I can get a copy of 3.5 but I guess I waited this long, a few more days won't kill me.

WyattHarris
09-10-2009, 07:25 PM
Why do we have to wait for an email ?
How come the upgrade isn't just on a server for people to download as most software companies do ? Surely it's the same for everyone....just a different serial to put in ???
Well because it's a free upgrade every licensed user would try to download it basically creating a denial of service situation. Which is sort of happening now with the crazy slow response by their web site and support page. They are reeling from the crush of people trying to download.

So they outsource it to Cleverbridge and you have to wait for them to contact you.

Still waiting... :banghead: Oh hurts so good.

plunq
09-10-2009, 07:59 PM
you using 401? for some reason i cant get myself to use it. ive been sticking to 302 due to the extra stability ( and the fact that ive customized it so much that i dont feel like redoing the setup for 401 :D )

hows it treating you?! I bought it, but its been sitting there waiting for 402-403 to arrive. i need something stable.

Yep I'm using it at home and brought it to work. I'm liking it a lot. I've opened 302 once or twice since getting 401 but keep finding myself missing 401. I've had a few small stability issues with baking maps from very large meshes but I figure that's to be expected. Overall I'm finding it quite stable and the new preview render window is awesome with a quad core.

But I digress, this is a Zbrush thread :)

Some of my favorite things in 3.5 are:
The new Skin, Crumple and Flakes brushes!
New Displacement and Normal maps from HD Geometry!
ZSketching!
and of course all the new Planar brushes!

Bucket
09-10-2009, 08:07 PM
I got the download.. I just don't know how to install it.. I saw something on zbrushcentral on how to get this to work.. now Zbrushcentral is hammered.

nevermind i got... exe in the troubleshoot folder... then install it..

Bucket
09-10-2009, 08:59 PM
Hey is anyone feeling.. some motion sickness or something with the grid and perspective distortion on... Maybe it's just me and I'm not used to zbrush having the grid and stuff.. panning and rotating is just weird..



Edit: the floor grid is moving sometimes when I modify the tool. this will take sometime to get used to.

bisenberger
09-10-2009, 09:13 PM
try it with a tool other than the sphere... a rotating sphere doesn't offer much reference:)

Arcanox
09-10-2009, 09:23 PM
For anyone who has it... is there a noteworthy improvement in the performance? Say you're working on a mesh that has 7 million points or so, is it faster when rotating or switching between subdivision levels?

They also mentioned something about the zooming being faster in general with an 'unlimited' zoom which will not slow down the performance at all. Is this true? Sculpting while zooming closely in Zbrush is inexplicably slow and it would be nice to know if they fixed this.

plunq
09-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Bucket: Go into the draw menu and turn on "Align to Object" see if that helps.

You can zoom right down to a single vertex on a multimillion poly mesh now :)

ZippZopp
09-10-2009, 09:46 PM
are there parameters with the new perspective for inputting actual focal length or field of view?

bobtronic
09-10-2009, 10:18 PM
are there parameters with the new perspective for inputting actual focal length or field of view?

there was always an focal length (mm) slider for the perspective distortion

cheers,
Matthias

bluemagicuk
09-10-2009, 10:20 PM
Crap it wont install, is anyone getting the following error message?

This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this.


I cant get it to install on any of my windows xp 32 bit pc's even ones that i have never installed z brush on.

plunq
09-10-2009, 10:44 PM
ZBrush support mentions this:-

"When launching ZBrush 3.5 for the first time, you may get the following warning..."This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem." Alternatively, you might receive a "side-by-side configuration" error. If you get either warning then you'll need to use the exe that is included within the ZBrush3.5\Troubleshoot Help folder. This is a Microsoft installer which installs windows functions that are missing in your system."

Bucket
09-10-2009, 10:51 PM
The zspheres work nicely. I haven't had any weird glitches occur yet, that plagued 3.1

kelgy
09-10-2009, 11:04 PM
PolyPainting accuracy has increased from 8 to 16 bit

**When I tried polypainting in 3.1 the texture would look very "pixelly"(when compared with the projection master texturing). The texture size always seemed small and i couldnt increase it to 2000 x 2000 something.

Should this 8 to 16 bit improve that?
I gave up on polypainting as a result and just used projection master/photoshop most of the time.

Anything different with projection master itself?

ZippZopp
09-10-2009, 11:14 PM
there was always an focal length (mm) slider for the perspective distortion

cheers,
Matthias

those values, at least in 3.1, don't correlate to real world values. i was wondering in the new version if that has been improved or if it is still the same

BigPixolin
09-10-2009, 11:16 PM
Polypainting is based on the number of polys you have, each poly is a pixel. Low poly's in model= low resolution texture.

tharrell
09-10-2009, 11:24 PM
So, the million dollar question based on my prior ZBrush upgrade experiences (while I wait on the email that won't come and have to file a manual ticket next week)...

What's missing in 3.5 other than GoZ?

3.0 shipped without any way to get a 32-bit displacement map out. Did MD/Projection Master/Decimation Master/ZAppLink etc ship with 3.5?

As in... is the thing just a toy to shut people up until the plug-ins that allow you to get actual work done get ported? That's what they pulled with 3.0 and it was 6 months (or more) before basic functionality was restored.

As an addendum to that:

Can you install 3.5 concurrently with 3.1?

--T

kelgy
09-10-2009, 11:36 PM
Polypainting is based on the number of polys you have, each poly is a pixel. Low poly's in model= low resolution texture.

***Thks for an answer. So all I need to do is paint on a higher subdivided model and save out that texture?

Been a while since i tried it. Will do so again..after receiving the update.

ambient-whisper
09-10-2009, 11:36 PM
So, the million dollar question based on my prior ZBrush upgrade experiences (while I wait on the email that won't come and have to file a manual ticket next week)...

What's missing in 3.5 other than GoZ?

3.0 shipped without any way to get a 32-bit displacement map out. Did MD/Projection Master/Decimation Master/ZAppLink etc ship with 3.5?

As in... is the thing just a toy to shut people up until the plug-ins that allow you to get actual work done get ported? That's what they pulled with 3.0 and it was 6 months (or more) before basic functionality was restored.

As an addendum to that:

Can you install 3.5 concurrently with 3.1?

--T

it does 32bit disp internally now. decimation master, and other plugins will come soon. exactly when, i dont know, but one of their devs told me that they are very far along in their testing, so im guessing that they will come when the next update for z comes along with GOZ. could be sooner, i dont know.

projection master has always been a part of the package so no need for that one.

z app link. i have no clue... :( im not entirely sure how much time they will devote to zapp link though because zbrush 4s tools wont make it as useful as it was in the past.


anyhow. considering how big of an upgrade this is over 3.1.. regardless if you got your plugins this very moment it is very far from being a toy. decimation master would have been nice, but im sure we will manage.

tharrell
09-10-2009, 11:46 PM
it does 32bit disp internally now. decimation master, and other plugins will come soon. exactly when, i dont know, but one of their devs told me that they are very far along in their testing, so im guessing that they will come when the next update for z comes along with GOZ. could be sooner, i dont know.

projection master has always been a part of the package so no need for that one.

z app link. i have no clue... :( im not entirely sure how much time they will devote to zapp link though because zbrush 4s tools wont make it as useful as it was in the past.


anyhow. considering how big of an upgrade this is over 3.1.. regardless if you got your plugins this very moment it is very far from being a toy. decimation master would have been nice, but im sure we will manage.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately ZAppLink is a huge part of my workflow, and projections are in no way comparable for texturing.

Let me guess, no real 64-bit version either?

So there's no MD plugin anymore? Guess we'll all have to learn how to tune maps again for our apps of choice, and it's back to manually exporting multi-uv regions, flipping maps and fixing seams by hand, I assume? At least you can get 32-bit maps out.

The toy statement was a little bit harsh, but it's easy to get frustrated with Pixologic's two steps forward, three steps back approach to upgrades when you've got a working pipeline for displacements and texturing.

They seem to cater to folks who never take their sculpts outside of ZBrush, and then they fill in the pipeline glue in a very leisurely fashion over the product timeline.

--T

MikeNash
09-10-2009, 11:57 PM
Considering 3.5 isnt 64bit Im very dissapointed.

ambient-whisper
09-11-2009, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately ZAppLink is a huge part of my workflow, and projections are in no way comparable for texturing.

Let me guess, no real 64-bit version either?

So there's no MD plugin anymore? Guess we'll all have to learn how to tune maps again for our apps of choice, and it's back to manually exporting multi-uv regions, flipping maps and fixing seams by hand, I assume? At least you can get 32-bit maps out.

The toy statement was a little bit harsh, but it's easy to get frustrated with Pixologic's two steps forward, three steps back approach to upgrades when you've got a working pipeline for displacements and texturing.

They seem to cater to folks who never take their sculpts outside of ZBrush, and then they fill in the pipeline glue in a very leisurely fashion over the product timeline.

--T


its not 64bit yet, but the performance has been improved. by performance i mean larger polycounts.

also now that HD displacement is working like it should, its not as big of a deal to get 64bit working. on the last shot i worked on for work, the HD disp has really given me much sharper results for sure. HD normal maps are sooo nice.

some of the guys on beta have used the disp maps in maya, others in modo, and i personally tested them in cinema. so far the results have been good.

I think that 64 bit will be much more important when dealing with textures though. more so than modelling. ( doesnt mean i dont want it..because i do. however its not a simple change, so we will have to wait for this )


the workflow hasnt really changed. I used to use MD quite a bit ( but mostly for 32bit support ). its been simplified. you really should check out the HD disp stuff when you get the chance. it really does give you much tighter maps, and finally having 8k map support is nice.

i havent had the need to extract multiple uv sets and whatnot cuz the quality im getting is really good now. the algo has been updated so that in some cases adaptive mode doesnt need to be used as much. there is obvious benefit to using MD and rendering multiple tile maps, but its not as big as it used to be since the maps end up coming out sharper, and being able to render to 8k.


about them catering to people that stay within Z. not entirely true ( even though it might seem like this. ) if they were to release zbrush along with plugins, then they would need to delay the zbrush release for another few weeks. 3.5 had quite a few core changes, so updating plugins isnt as simple as compiling them for a new version. 3.5 is very different internally from 3.1. most aspects have actually been rewritten to give smoother results.

most of the plugins do exist, but they are still being tested. i dont think they will want to rush either, because the first few batches of a few plugins we got, didnt work on most computers. its better now but they gotta make sure they are solid.

tharrell
09-11-2009, 01:17 AM
Fair enough. I am eagerly awaiting my email, don't get me wrong. Now that I'm using Renderman for my displacements, I'm quite looking forward to throwing 8k HD maps at it.

I just didn't want to get into a situation like I did with ZB 3.0 where I just started sculpting and playing with the new toys like mad, but there wasn't any way to get actual useable results out of Z. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

To Pixologic's credit, they did comp me a version of ZB2 so that I could get some shots done in my home studio with the whole 3.0 debacle.

But that said, stuff like ZAppLink and Subtool/Transpose Master in particular are really part of the core featureset that are used in pretty much any day-to-day production, and not having them at the end of an upgrade makes it not feel like an upgrade at all, if that makes sense.

As much as I'd like to trust that they'll be available "soon" or "September," I've got a few years under my belt laughing at Pixo's self-imposed deadlines blowing by, so excuse me if I take any estimate with a grain of salt :)

I can work around the other stuff, but ZAppLink in particular makes me cry. I've got TopoGun now, so decimation isn't the big deal it used to be.

You know what would make my day? Backward compatibility between Z versions. Open a tool in 3.5, sculpt with all the new toys, save, open in 3.1 to texture until ZAppLink works again.

--T

DoctorMonkeyFist
09-11-2009, 01:22 AM
Its been pretty buggy for me but from the small amount of time I played with it, I'm feeling like the biggest addition is in the stroke palette. Being able to draw curves and backtrack over those curves for your strokes is huge.

moogaloonie
09-11-2009, 01:36 AM
I actually took a personal day from work tomorrow because I was so excited about this release and wanted to play with all the new features. How nerdy is that? Its been pretty buggy for me but from the small amount of time I played with it, I'm feeling like the biggest addition is in the stroke palette. Being able to draw curves and backtrack over those curves for your strokes is huge.

Buggy how? Most of the people discussing it on zBC seem to still be waiting for it.

DoctorMonkeyFist
09-11-2009, 01:43 AM
Well. I get an error message when I try to load it for the first few times. But when it does load its outrageously fast, like clicking on a link in your browser. Ive also been having problems with displaying the new zsphere stuff. It might be my graphics card or something though.

ambient-whisper
09-11-2009, 01:44 AM
I actually took a personal day from work tomorrow because I was so excited about this release and wanted to play with all the new features. How nerdy is that? Its been pretty buggy for me but from the small amount of time I played with it, I'm feeling like the biggest addition is in the stroke palette. Being able to draw curves and backtrack over those curves for your strokes is huge.

can you describe what types of bugs you are getting? when goZ gets released it will be in the form of a patch ( im guessing pix will do what they did with the mac version ), so there will be some more bugs squished that were still left behind. the general consensus has been that the major stuff has been taken care of, but there were a few that were still present one in particular that has been a total pain to try to reproduce from system to system. ( for example, one bug shows up in xp 64 randomly, but not in xp 32. )

zbrush on windows 7 also has some issues from what ive heard, so until there is official support, i would stay away from that combination.

if you have issues starting it up, you could try to install the file that is in the troubleshooting folder. that usually seems to fix most of the issues with Z.

DoctorMonkeyFist
09-11-2009, 02:01 AM
Thanks ambient whisper! I was having trouble where it was drawing some faces backwards. But I restarted my computer and I can't mimic it now. Thanks for fixing it! I'll try that file you suggested for the loading problem.Thanks!

BigPixolin
09-11-2009, 02:07 AM
***Thks for an answer. So all I need to do is paint on a higher subdivided model and save out that texture?

Been a while since i tried it. Will do so again..after receiving the update.

Correct.**

Animare
09-11-2009, 02:28 AM
Just a question I've been searching for throughout the forums, have the issues with the 3ds 2010 workflow, export displacments/normals have been resolved at all, or is that still mainly a problem with Max?

ambient-whisper
09-11-2009, 02:32 AM
not sure. but if anything you might just need to flip the green channelin max

thing is, theres an option to do that directly in Z now. im not sure how many ( if any testers were using max. ) i can only speak of my own experience and in cinema the normal maps appear flawless.

Animare
09-11-2009, 04:43 AM
Cool thanks man, I'll give that a shot!

Awsome Portfolio by the way

R10k
09-11-2009, 05:26 AM
Well, my upgrade arrived... a few quick thoughts (for the fun of it)...

Another 'what the heck were Pix thinking?' install. You put the 3.5 folder into your program files directory and run it from there. Why? What happened to installing programs? :curious: Plus, the program performs a really strange freeze/crash if you don't run it as an administrator. It took me a bit to figure that out, because the error was about a lack of virtual memory.

Those things aside, goodness, 3.5 feels a heck of a lot more solid. Lightbox is awesome! Perspective is a godsend, and the grid is... well, it's just as good to see. Plus, I think pretty much every command in the menus has been properly documented via the Ctrl popup help. That in itself is worth the upgrade.

So, after a few minutes of looking, getting this for free is more than worth the 'what the heck were Pix thinking?' install ;)

JookBoxer
09-11-2009, 05:51 AM
Sorry for knowing nothing..

What do you mean when you say. 8k HD maps? Is that 8000 pixels by 8000 pixels?

What is MD mean in reference to displacement maps?

What are muli uv regions and why would you need them? Why would you need to fix the seams, is that a fault of the application that is generating the displacement maps? You would flip the displacement map to cater to the application that it is being brought into correct and thus some applications would not require the map to be flipped?

8bit vs 16bit vs 32bit images. Is this a form of compression, or something related to dpi? I hear those phrases tossed around a lot but I've never seen a side by side comparison.

A finally.. Is it common to animate discaplement maps? I was thinking in situations where dents in the skin become more severe. Like the wrinkles on a person's forehead. I am guessing this would be very difficult to rig though for animation because sections of the face would have to be broken down into little quadrants so that each displacement image could be blended to another. Otherwise just a simple animated map for the whole face would be too linear for the motion of the face. I guess that is a bit silly and would create excessive amounts of work to get it working right. Probably would be easier to just rig a face that has an overkill polygon count.


Sorry for knowing nothing..

R10k
09-11-2009, 05:56 AM
8bit vs 16bit vs 32bit images. Is this a form of compression, or something related to dpi? I hear those phrases tossed around a lot but I've never seen a side by side comparison.

Have a read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth).

Ordibble-Plop
09-11-2009, 06:11 AM
Another 'what the heck were Pix thinking?' install. You put the 3.5 folder into your program files directory and run it from there. Why? What happened to installing programs? :curious:

I don't get it. Aren't you glad that ZB doesn't litter your system and registry with bits and bobs that are never removed when uninstalling? I wish all software were the same.

R10k
09-11-2009, 06:20 AM
I don't get it. Aren't you glad that ZB doesn't litter your system and registry with bits and bobs that are never removed when uninstalling? I wish all software were the same.

I agree that kind of thing can be a pain, and there are advantages to having programs just sitting in a directory, but there are certain advantages to installing as well.

richcz3
09-11-2009, 07:18 AM
damn me as I can't wait. Picked up another license. Going to be up late today..tonight..ok its dark out but early. :bounce:

cresshead
09-11-2009, 07:25 AM
email arrived!...downloaded the zip..will install/activate this afternoon

John-S
09-11-2009, 07:28 AM
Is there a 3.5 beta gallery or anything yet? Not sure if I'm blind but I can't find one : (

richcz3
09-11-2009, 08:10 AM
Whoa - the adaptive skin is sooo much better now at default settings. No real trick or work around to create five fingers on a wrist zsphere. Giddy happy giddy about that. :D

TheRazorsEdge
09-11-2009, 08:51 AM
I just downloaded my copy and will spend some time on the weekend with it. I really was hoping for a 64-bit version. Ah well, I still cant wait to see what this new version can do.

those values, at least in 3.1, don't correlate to real world values. i was wondering in the new version if that has been improved or if it is still the same

I am wondering the same thing and will take good look at that. I really hope they fixed this. :)

Cheers!

GQ1
09-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Wouldn’t you know it I finally got my email to download the thing to only be stopped by waiting for my return email after registering it by web activation.

Ordibble-Plop
09-11-2009, 09:48 AM
Wouldn’t you know it I finally got my email to download the thing to only be stopped by waiting for my return email after registering it by web activation.

If you activated by web, it should have taken you to a web page that had an activation code on it that you could then enter into ZB to get it running. I got my 'activation' email with the .zsc activation file a few hours later but didn't need it.

GQ1
09-11-2009, 10:05 AM
After I registered it the page didn't have any activation code on it.

It just said This page is only for users who would like to activate the Windows version of ZBrush 3.5.

R10k
09-11-2009, 04:22 PM
Finally got to play with Zsphere 2's... and wow, these things are amazing. I really couldn't get into the original Zsphere, but these things are just the best thing since the almighty teapot. I thought they'd be a bit of a muscle building gimmick, but they really are the best way to get a mesh going, horrible topology aside.

If there was ever a reason to have Zbrush in your toolbox, in my newbish opinion, this is it. Nice work Pix! :thumbsup:

richcz3
09-11-2009, 04:34 PM
The ZClassroom (http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/) has great tips on the tool usage for ZSpheres. I thought there were only three videos at first. There are small arrows at the left that let you scroll right. Some real great brushes to use with ZSpheres.


Garrick (GQ1) - was this a purchase an update.
You should have received an email with the serial number before the one that Activation Key email. Check to see if there as a PDF attached - see what instructions it has to follow.

kelgy
09-11-2009, 05:49 PM
I got the email and installed- problem is web activation keeps failing. Had to register for support and waiting for the email confirmation for that. Then i can put a ticket in saying the activation failed. Sucks.

Per-Anders
09-11-2009, 06:01 PM
I know it doesn't help those who are having problems but registration went painlessly here.

Werner
09-11-2009, 07:01 PM
Are there any plans in the future to replace polypainting with something that lets you paint textures on low res models at any text res?

Mr Moose
09-11-2009, 07:04 PM
I was also having trouble activating (or was it registering... so many codes) using Opera. Switching to Firefox worked, however. May be that'll help others?

kelgy
09-11-2009, 07:36 PM
I was using firefox already.

tonytrout
09-11-2009, 08:52 PM
The ZClassroom (http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/) has great tips on the tool usage for ZSpheres. I thought there were only three videos at first. There are small arrows at the left that let you scroll right. Some real great brushes to use with ZSpheres.

thanks good spotting, whets my appetite..... but still no email :(

plunq
09-11-2009, 10:12 PM
Just a question I've been searching for throughout the forums, have the issues with the 3ds 2010 workflow, export displacments/normals have been resolved at all, or is that still mainly a problem with Max?
One thing to remember about generating displacement maps in 3.5 is to turn on 3 channels. While testing, Max would hard crash if I forgot to turn this on and generated a grayscale displacement map instead. Like Martin said as well, there are options for flipping your normal map channels as well.

Sil3
09-11-2009, 10:20 PM
I know it doesn't help those who are having problems but registration went painlessly here.

Same here and im using Opera.

Now let the fun begin I have a full weekend :beer:

kelgy
09-11-2009, 10:53 PM
I got it to work.
I had to reboot and then let firefox update and then request a new activiation key.
That seemed to do it.

Fess1001
09-11-2009, 11:55 PM
I am completely blown away by the new zspheres tech. I hope Pixologic guys get some award for it.

MikeNash
09-12-2009, 12:25 AM
Zphere 2 tech been done before, Since max 3.
http://www.reyes-infografica.com/gallery/oleg.php
http://www.reyes-infografica.com/gallery/imagen/oleg/griffon_compo_a.jpg
Just when you think they came up with it, Somone else was trying to pioneering it long time before them.

Just like with Voxel modeling been around for long time. Its just that someone finaly got balls to push it forward with todays tech

richcz3
09-12-2009, 12:53 AM
For those having Web Registration problems - you need to have Java enabled. I'm using Firefox 3.5 and when I launched the Pixologic Registration page I noted Java running in the window for a split second. 2nd install has gone without a hitch.

Kravit - I don't know the ease of use Meta Reyes (if that's the products name.) I remember seeing that a long time ago myself, but ZSpheres 2 is extraordinarily easy to pick and apply. When you run the videos on Pixologics site, the brushes work as advertised. It's fast and responsive.

I would imaging MAX being part of the 800 pound guerrilla - that any plugin or feature like that would be on the forefront of development if it was easy to use and produced consistent results. I'm going to bet it was neither. ZSpheres 2 is in a class by itself.

tharrell
09-12-2009, 01:11 AM
Looking forward to having web registration problems here :p

End of business Friday came and went, no email yet. My email address begins with "t" for what it's worth.

Got a ticket in, but doubt seriously I'll hear anything till Monday or later.

Thought about taking a day off work to play like some of you did, kinda glad I didn't in retrospect. Everytime I've had to deal with Cleverbridge for anything (including my initial ZB 2 purchase) it's been a trainwreck.

--T

claybub
09-12-2009, 01:14 AM
got it yesterday. im pretty irritated though...flatten brush's behaviour has changed drastically from 3.1 default settings and as far as im concerned its unusable, so I'll need to find an alternative or figure out how to bring it back to its former glory.

the transpose topology masking thingy doesnt show up anymore. its just transparent or something but it still works....you just can't see the mask. normal masking is visible though.

another thing i found weird. in vista 64bit, I made a shortcut for zbrush 3.5 but it wont launch. I have to go directly to the zbrush directory and launch it from there.

otherwise everything is tidy. spheres 2 works nicely. cant wait for GoZ. opening files is finally better. overall performance is better. happy customer aside from the quirks.

R10k
09-12-2009, 01:19 AM
I've had no issues with registration, but I have to try and start Zbrush about twenty times (and watch it crash, then ctrl-alt-del it) before it decides to work. To say it's annoying is an understatement. Plus, I'm the only one who seems to have the problem. I've tried everything in my technical repertoire, but nothing seems to solve the issue.

Ah well. I guess you take the good with the inevitable bad.

tharrell
09-12-2009, 01:21 AM
I've had no issues with registration, but I have to try and start Zbrush about twenty times (and watch it crash, then ctrl-alt-del it) before it decides to work. To say it's annoying is an understatement. Plus, I'm the only one who seems to have the problem. I've tried everything in my technical repertoire, but nothing seems to solve the issue.

Ah well. I guess you take the good with the inevitable bad.

I had that issue with ZB3.1 under Win 7 x64. I fixed it by creating a new shortcut, getting properties and setting it to run as administrator in XP compatibility mode. Been working reasonably well since then.

--T

ambient-whisper
09-12-2009, 01:24 AM
got it yesterday. im pretty irritated though...flatten brush's behaviour has changed drastically from 3.1 default settings and as far as im concerned its unusable, so I'll need to find an alternative or figure out how to bring it back to its former glory.

the transpose topology masking thingy doesnt show up anymore. its just transparent or something but it still works....you just can't see the mask. normal masking is visible though.

another thing i found weird. in vista 64bit, I made a shortcut for zbrush 3.5 but it wont launch. I have to go directly to the zbrush directory and launch it from there.

otherwise everything is tidy. spheres 2 works nicely. cant wait for GoZ. opening files is finally better. overall performance is better. happy customer aside from the quirks.

that is simple to fix

turn on your brush
go to the brush settings and set the samples to 0.75. that is what it was before. now its been changed and i dont think they updated it at the last second.

anyway. flatten is sorta useless now. the new planar flatten and clay finish brush do a much more adequate job at flattening out than flatten does.

the only thing that flatten is useful for is when you add the brush mod setting to it, so you flatten and extrude out. then its got a neat effect.

hope this helps. ( just make sure to save the brush when you are done ).

majid-smiley
09-12-2009, 01:37 AM
i didnt try it yet, but i wish they add the Texture painting for directly paint, also lightbox was not in the features list...

Per-Anders
09-12-2009, 02:01 AM
Dunno, I found flatten an excellent tool for sculpting and rather better at smoothing than the smooth tool, quite close to a clay sculpting tool/spatula and far more useful than the new line and plane tools that I've not yet worked out a use for (I wouldn't do hard surface modeling in ZB).

R10k
09-12-2009, 04:16 AM
I had that issue with ZB3.1 under Win 7 x64. I fixed it by creating a new shortcut, getting properties and setting it to run as administrator in XP compatibility mode. Been working reasonably well since then.

I've run it as admin, turned off DEP... the only thing I haven't tried is a compatibility setting. I'll give that a shot, but honestly, that shouldn't really be necessary for an app designed to run in a 32bit Vista environment. I'd much rather make it crash and work with Pixologic to get it fixed.

gjpetch
09-12-2009, 04:18 AM
Wow, sketching with zspheres rocks. I was wondering if I'd actually find it useful or just a cool gimmick. I'd say its definitely the former, very fast and fun way to rough out a model.
Some of the new brushes are pretty crazy and awesome, love the smooth peaks and flakes brushes.
I don't quite get brushes like Move2 and MoveRing though.:hmm:

ambient-whisper
09-12-2009, 04:21 AM
Dunno, I found flatten an excellent tool for sculpting and rather better at smoothing than the smooth tool, quite close to a clay sculpting tool/spatula and far more useful than the new line and plane tools that I've not yet worked out a use for (I wouldn't do hard surface modeling in ZB).


try these following tools in combination.

clay finish tool
planar cut shallow
planar flatten

experiment with them a bit. they should give you way better results than flatten ever has.

clay finish is probably one of the finer brushes that has been added to zb. its sort of like a flatten smooth finishing tool. great stuff. coupled with the other two i mentioned youll get some great results.


greg. try this.

use move 2, and while pulling out press and hold shift. that will give you some other interesting results. all the new move tools have those.

SheepFactory
09-12-2009, 04:47 AM
How does 3.5 run with windows 7?

Per-Anders
09-12-2009, 06:27 AM
try these following tools in combination.

clay finish tool
planar cut shallow
planar flatten

experiment with them a bit. they should give you way better results than flatten ever has.

clay finish is probably one of the finer brushes that has been added to zb. its sort of like a flatten smooth finishing tool. great stuff. coupled with the other two i mentioned youll get some great results.

Thanks Martin, "Clay Finish" seems interesting although still not really a replacement for the old flatten tool, but maybe an interesting addition to the smoothing toolset for some rare occasions. The other two I'm not sure I can find a use for, the new planar stuff seems a bit gimmicky to me so far.

I never used flatten to actually try to make totally planar areas as such, but your earlier tip about setting the samples up seems to have improved things a bit closer to how it used to be, though somehow something still doesn't feel quite right there, not sure what, but now it seems to cause more bumps and polygon distortion/separation when going over a rough surface rather than flattening it down into a smooth and even curve like it did before. It's a bit annoying as it was my second most used tool, maybe there are some other ways to try and get the old behavior back?

Anyway overall it seems a decent update, though the interface got very overloaded, it would be nice to have some sort of grouping of tools by type to help organize it all.

ambient-whisper
09-12-2009, 06:35 AM
try to load up the old flatten. see what happens.

but about the new planar and such. its all supposed to be used in moderation. most people will use these tools all the way to the corner for example but planar flatten is supposed to be one of those tools that is used to get lumps flattened to a plane that is already flat.


what i usually do is clay finish first to smoothen and flatten the surface ( its great for creating some curves along the surface too ( along with planar spline cut ( but this one needs some experimentation to learn to use correctly )), and then ill go into the planar cut shallow if i need any plane flat. planar flatten is mostly as a finish tool.

its good for stuff like rocks where you might need a plane flat..

another cool brush to check out is the crumple brush. except instead of making radial strokes, make them linear back and forth strokes ( vertical first for a bit, and then horizontal. ) it will give you some cool effects for rocky side surfaces.

Per-Anders
09-12-2009, 06:51 AM
OK, I've worked out what the problem is with the new Flatten behavior (I think), instead of taking the average of the normals under the brush and updating that as the brush moves (taking it's own flattening into account) it's now just taking the very central normal, like all the new "planar" tools or whatever they're called, so the brush tilts around a lot more and can never properly flatten or smooth out any curves.

This is kinda a big problem as it actually makes the tool useless for smoothing tasks. However I think it is possible to at least get some of the behavior back, though not all as it still seems to pinwheel around in it's orientation on not non smooth surfaces a lot even with these changes, but try the following changes :

Change the Brush->Depth->Samples to 0.75 as Martin mentioned before.
Change the Brush->Modifiers->Stabilize to 100
Change the Brush->Modifiers->Smooth to 10

And you should start to get something a bit closer to where the Flatten tool used to be, it's still not exactly right, but it's better than nothing at all.

Unfortunately loading in the old brush preset didn't work, I gave that a try before but it behaves just as the new one does. Thing is I don't use z-brush on anything that ever has a totally flat plane on it, so I don't see the point, hard surface modeling I'd do anywhere but Z basically.

ThomasMahler
09-12-2009, 07:48 AM
Finally had some time to sit down with it and man... I love this release. The ZSphere Sketching will be enormously helpful (even the geo it creates isn't too bad and can be sculpted), the new Flatten Brushes are incredible and all in all it just seems a lot more streamlined than ZBrush 3.1.

With the flatten brushes and the ZSketch, I think ZBrush is now pretty close to giving artists the opporunity to create work completely in ZBrush, without having to basemesh in an external app anymore - I'll be doing some more tests over the weekend.

Incredible release Pixologic, feels fantastic so far!

claybub
09-12-2009, 08:32 AM
OK, I've worked out what the problem is with the new Flatten behavior (I think), instead of taking the average of the normals under the brush and updating that as the brush moves (taking it's own flattening into account) it's now just taking the very central normal, like all the new "planar" tools or whatever they're called, so the brush tilts around a lot more and can never properly flatten or smooth out any curves.


yes thats exactly what i thought too. thanks for articulating that. im pretty disappointed because now its generally not useful in the same way anymore. i used it a lot to smooth things out as well, but using it on a bumpy surface now gives you an unusual wavyness.

dOMINUSMess
09-12-2009, 09:23 AM
claybub wrote :
yes thats exactly what i thought too. thanks for articulating that. im pretty disappointed because now its generally not useful in the same way anymore. i used it a lot to smooth things out as well, but using it on a bumpy surface now gives you an unusual wavyness.

I thought so too but then experimented with the brush settings : just set 'smooth' of the flatten brush to 10 and then you have the behaviour of 3.1 again.

So : ZBrush3.5 > Flatten Brush > Brush-menu > Modifiers > Smooth.

There's other settings to play around with.

Edit :
And I just discovered this :
ZBrush3.5 > Flatten Brush > Brush-menu > Smooth Brush Modifiers > Stronger
-----> when 'Stronger' is pressed on the Flatten Brush, then the amount of smoothing is doubled !

Edit2 : With 'Smooth' to 10 and 'Stronger' pressed I find the Flatten Brush in 3.5 even better.
Maybe this can also be done in 3.1 ? I haven't checked yet.

claybub
09-12-2009, 09:35 AM
oops yes, smooth set to 10 does make a difference. thanks!

SeaJackal
09-12-2009, 09:38 AM
is it just me, or for some reason the smooth brushes cannot be selected. anyone else?

dOMINUSMess
09-12-2009, 09:45 AM
SeaJackal wrote :
is it just me, or for some reason the smooth brushes cannot be selected. anyone else?

When selecting the 'Smooth brush' then there's an info text which appears right under the menu in the left upper corner of the screen:
"This brush is a mesh sculpting smooth brush. Press the Shift key while sculpting to use it."

There are multiple smooth brushes now : the one you select will be the one which is used when you press Shift !

Edit : this is the same behaviour as when you are smoothing ZSPheresII ---> for smoothing ZSpheresII there are also multiple smooth brushes and the one you have selected is the one that will be used when you hold down Shift.

SeaJackal
09-12-2009, 09:55 AM
When selecting the 'Smooth brush' then there's an info text which appears right under the menu in the left upper corner of the screen:
"This brush is a mesh sculpting smooth brush. Press the Shift key while sculpting to use it."

There are multiple smooth brushes now : the one you select will be the one which is used when you press Shift !

Edit : this is the same behaviour as when you are smoothing ZSPheresII ---> for smoothing ZSpheresII there are also multiple smooth brushes and the one you have selected is the one that will be used when you hold down Shift.

thanks!! phew!

csutcliffe
09-12-2009, 11:52 AM
The surface noise is brilliant and the Z Sketch function works a lot nicer than I had anticipated. I can't see myself using the flatten brushes too much but I'm pretty sure that we're going to see some crazy organic / mechanoid hybrid creations in the not too distant future.

I haven't figured out the normal map workflow as in there doesn't seem to be anything like the options we had with Z Mapper - is this something that will be released alongside GoZ? I'm also a bit dissapointed that we haven't gotten layered painting yet but hopefully that will be adressed in version 4.

Despite a few irritations, i'm extremely happy with this release and I really beleive that we'll see character models go to a whole new level just like we did when version 3 was released.

leigh
09-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Just downloaded my update this morning, going to check it out this weekend.

handlebar
09-12-2009, 04:58 PM
Fantastic release Pixologic, i've been away from zbrush for a while learning other stuff, when i fired this up it felt like coming home to an old friend. I'm in awe at the forward thinking and inovation.

sacslacker
09-12-2009, 05:21 PM
Woke up, it was raining after a 100+ degree day yesterday, got my zbrush email and had a quick run with it. What a great morning! I love this release. Something about the brushes makes it feel so nice. I have much love for companies like Pixologic. They are few and far between that's for sure!

Pinoy McGee
09-12-2009, 05:25 PM
Nice...I like how zsphering 5 finger hands is less of a pain now. And I haven't even started with a zspheres2 layer yet.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5086/fingerspheres.jpg

plunq
09-12-2009, 05:39 PM
I haven't figured out the normal map workflow as in there doesn't seem to be anything like the options we had with Z Mapper - is this something that will be released alongside GoZ? I'm also a bit dissapointed that we haven't gotten layered painting yet but hopefully that will be adressed in version 4.

What's there to figure out? If you have UV's and any subdivision levels, go to your lowest subdiv level and open the Normal Map menu in the tool menu, turn on tangent if you want and hit Create NormalMap. Once it's done, use Clone NM to send a copy to your textures menu and save out your normal map like you usually would (might want to flip V first). Zbrush even picks up any HD sculpting and applies it to normal maps now, while beta testing I was getting some fantastic 4k HD normal maps of skin textures using the skin brush. :)

bluemagicuk
09-12-2009, 06:23 PM
Anyone else experienced the problem where you cant mirror sculpt by pressing xy or z on the keyboard? I have to go into the menu each time to click it with the mouse.

ThomasMahler
09-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Anyone else experienced the problem where you cant mirror sculpt by pressing xy or z on the keyboard? I have to go into the menu each time to click it with the mouse.

Maybe you wanna turn Caps Lock off.

:)

sacslacker
09-13-2009, 05:10 AM
Having a lot of fun with this release. Quick question, it appears that perspective distortion creates a few problems in projection master. If I take a cube, jump into projection master and then draw a line with double sided and normalize, it appears that the prospective distortion skews the line so that it doesn't "wrap around" straight like it should. Easy fix is to turn prospective distortion off but I was wondering if there is something I'm missing to compensate?

tharrell
09-13-2009, 06:43 AM
Finally got my license. Having good fun with the release so far for the most part. A couple weird things, though.

Did anyone else get tripped up on the weird arbitrary magical number scale that accompanies .obj export now?

Really random for Maya to be 5.26815 scale, for instance (with additional weird x/y/z offsets). Easy to get tripped up and zero (or one) stuff out, which can't be undone. Offering an export scale based on arbitrary internal values is just weird.

Still no default for merge uv's on export. A boy can dream, though.

Also, can only save upside-down texture maps as bmps now? Really? Kinda a step backward from PSD format... for the love of all that's holy let me flip them on export!

Seems to be more responsive overall, thrashing to disk is less random (but still an issue on undos), although it seems to be limiting itself to about 2gb of real memory, the rest swap (16gb x64 system). I've had a few crash-on-save issues when I've pushed my geo up to the 40-ish million mark just to see what it could do. Pretty much despise the new "I'm thrashing" floppy disk icon that took the place of the beloved "compacting memory" message. Comes up far more often, but briefer now.

Still doesn't honor the minimum number of undos I've got set, which is a major annoyance.

Getting a feel for stuff like the skin brush, which you wouldn't think is "clay with fingerprints" but kinda is when it feels like it. It'll be going along putting nice wrinkles on stuff then all of the sudden puff out an area like clay. There doesn't seem to be a reason topology-wise for it to be doing it, so I'm flagging it as unpredictable.

Multi-displacements are still annoying to do manually, although there's a global seam-overpaint (and texture res) setting now for all maps.

I know that Z4 is going to make polypainting less annoying within ZBrush, but please don't abandon ZAppLink! Make it part of the core featureset (along with subtool/transpose master!). Having to export .obj and a displacement out, then back into 3.1 for finishing is just maddening with a new toy.

So, negative points out of the way, I am enjoying it quite a bit. Still getting a feel for the new brushes. Noise is pretty awesome. Exported 32-bit maps do seem crisper (and they've got the option to flip on export, unlike textures). The slash brushes seem less chunky at lower res now. Don't know if it's me or the update, but I seem to be capable of a little finer control when using the move brush for tweaks.

I'm quite liking seeing the normals with brush feedback. Makes getting precise masks (say, around lips) way less of an issue. It'll still overspray onto adjacent areas, but I know why now.

I can actually get pretty-close-to-useable basemeshes out of the new zshperes2 deal now (topology-wise), which is pretty huge. Can't comment on whether ZSphere retopo's still flakey (topogun ftw, no reason to even attempt that in Z anymore). The new spread topology feature is pretty cool, although I haven't got a feel for precisely what it's doing just yet.

Anyhow, solid release with around the same amount of "personality" I've come to expect. I think folks who start in ZBrush instead of with a nice-topoed basemesh are likely to be in love with the release. Those of us who use it as part of a bigger, more specialized toolbox might feel handcuffed until the essential plug-ins are released again.

--T

csutcliffe
09-13-2009, 09:06 AM
What's there to figure out? If you have UV's and any subdivision levels, go to your lowest subdiv level and open the Normal Map menu in the tool menu, turn on tangent if you want and hit Create NormalMap. Once it's done, use Clone NM to send a copy to your textures menu and save out your normal map like you usually would (might want to flip V first). Zbrush even picks up any HD sculpting and applies it to normal maps now, while beta testing I was getting some fantastic 4k HD normal maps of skin textures using the skin brush. :)

To be more, specific, with ZMapper there were a lot of software specific options which are no longer there with the create normal Map Options in 3.5. I also liked it that Zmapper gave a instant preview of your normal Mapped Base Mesh and I'm not sure how to do this in 3.5.

richcz3
09-13-2009, 05:25 PM
To be more, specific, with ZMapper there were a lot of software specific options which are no longer there with the create normal Map Options in 3.5. I also liked it that Zmapper gave a instant preview of your normal Mapped Base Mesh and I'm not sure how to do this in 3.5.There still may be hope. 3.5 is a pretty expansive release. Who's to say what 4.0 will bring. I would imagine that Pixologic has more up their sleeves they've yet to disclose. Unless they've mentioned Zmapper will not be updated, there's a chance it might be. Best bet is to check their forums.

kelgy
09-13-2009, 06:31 PM
One thing I notice--I am not getting a seam problem from the displacement after re importing into maya that has bene there since maya 2008 version.
The ccmesh issue that required a mel script.

More testing required.

I preferred using zmapper for normal maps and multi displacement 3 for displacements.

Havent figured out how to get the noise to show up(it looks really faint in rendering) and havent tried HD geometry(never bothered with it before since it wasnt transferable to maps).

But the displacement does look sharper....

bluemagicuk
09-13-2009, 08:54 PM
Maybe you wanna turn Caps Lock off.

:)

Caps lock is off :) ... the wierd thing is that x mirror works great with caps on or off but i cant get z or y to mirror correctly .

ambient-whisper
09-14-2009, 12:40 AM
One thing I notice--I am not getting a seam problem from the displacement after re importing into maya that has bene there since maya 2008 version.
The ccmesh issue that required a mel script.

More testing required.

I preferred using zmapper for normal maps and multi displacement 3 for displacements.

Havent figured out how to get the noise to show up(it looks really faint in rendering) and havent tried HD geometry(never bothered with it before since it wasnt transferable to maps).

But the displacement does look sharper....

well make sure you try HD geo now cuz it will calculate it automatically.

to use it make sure your HDgeo is at its highest level and your regular geo slider is at its lowest.

kelgy
09-14-2009, 01:53 AM
well make sure you try HD geo now cuz it will calculate it automatically.

to use it make sure your HDgeo is at its highest level and your regular geo slider is at its lowest.

**cooool-I like it.

still have to figure out the settings for a normal map though. With zmapper I usually deleted the first 3 subdivision levels and then made it from there.

Just fiddling around seeing what the buttons do....

inverse catheter
09-14-2009, 02:25 AM
so far i'm pretty well disappointed. please. correct me if i'm wrong but from a first look it doesn't seem like they've addressed many of the stupidly simple aspects. no ability to selectively / interactively remove tools from the tool palette. none of the ' subtool master ' functionality added to the core ui. no undo for deleted subtools. even things as basic as hitting ENTER to complete renaming. etc. i've compiled a pretty decent list of omissions already

way to go pixologic. spin up some ' wow ' features and brush everything else under the carpet. thanks for f__k all

Erklaerbar
09-14-2009, 05:08 AM
dont uninstall 3.1 yet! Theres still some stuff you cant do in 3.5! One of the weirder things I experienced was loading a 8mio ploy mesh. 3.1 just imports fine, 3.5 gives me memory error and quits instantly. Besides these quirks there are a lot of cool things and improvements in there no mentioned in the release notes.

FRimasson
09-14-2009, 06:13 AM
so far i'm pretty well disappointed. please. correct me if i'm wrong but from a first look it doesn't seem like they've addressed many of the stupidly simple aspects. no ability to selectively / interactively remove tools from the tool palette. none of the ' subtool master ' functionality added to the core ui. no undo for deleted subtools. even things as basic as hitting ENTER to complete renaming. etc. i've compiled a pretty decent list of omissions already

way to go pixologic. spin up some ' wow ' features and brush everything else under the carpet. thanks for f__k all

You're unfair. They fixed most of the few issues i had with 3.1 (topology masking with a partially hidden model, miss precision whan you import a .obj, 8 bits masking that cause steps...)

Werner
09-14-2009, 09:46 AM
Anyone know if the are planning on replacing the poly painting with pixel painting soon?

BigPixolin
09-14-2009, 12:52 PM
Performance upgrades are very welcomed.
I don't really see the hard surface brushes revolutionizing hard surface modeling at this time which is very disapointing and what I was mistankly expecting.
New zspheres adaptive skinning is really good. Pretty clean meshes, everytime I see one i am suprised.
Zsketches I'm not a big of, already sick of seeing the muscular spherical blobs of alien poop with tentacles everywhere. Can't wait to see what the more talented folks come up with using them and alter my perception.
Goz for max is really going to make zbrush more enjoyable to work with for me, I hope they release it soon.

inverse catheter
09-14-2009, 01:54 PM
You're unfair. They fixed most of the few issues i had with 3.1 (topology masking with a partially hidden model, miss precision whan you import a .obj, 8 bits masking that cause steps...)

sorry dude. i don't think i'm being unfair at all. they didn't fix most of the issues i had with 3.1. very simple and blatantly obvious fixes that would've fine tuned the general workflow a great deal

BigPixolin
09-14-2009, 02:31 PM
They also broke things that used to work.
For instance lazy mouse when masking does not work anymore which is pretty big to me.
You should also be able to use lazy mouse when drawing a path for hard surface modeling but the path is very wonky due to no lazymouse while using lazy mouse if that makes sense.

TravelGuide
09-14-2009, 02:35 PM
The new zspheres are simply revolutionary, the speed at which you "concept"
is marvelous. I was a bit skeptical at first when I saw the movies especially when the zspheres were "skined" but the resulting geometry is totally sculptable. I've been enjoying the new brushes, a bit daunting with so many of them although I'll need more time to experiment...no goz? that's disapointing...

all around -impressive- (and massive release).
The increase speed (4gigs) and performance is astonishing!

CHRiTTeR
09-14-2009, 07:26 PM
ZBrush 3.5 Release 2 is now available to download
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=608695#post608695

ambient-whisper
09-14-2009, 07:34 PM
ZBrush 3.5 Release 2 is now available to download
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=608695#post608695


and some people were saying that pix doesnt care :) heh. looks like a bunch of issues were fixed. it just takes time and some attention needs to be brought to the bugs.

BigPixolin
09-14-2009, 07:47 PM
and some people were saying that pix doesnt care :) heh. looks like a bunch of issues were fixed. it just takes time and some attention needs to be brought to the bugs.

Wow and here i was complaining about lazy mouse and masking a few hours ago shame on me.

Per-Anders
09-14-2009, 07:52 PM
Unfortunately neither of the "fixed" flatten brushes is anything like the old Flatten Brush, they both still cause splaying polygons and make surfaces even more lumpy than before you use them So you still have to go in and adjust them although now I seem to be having a harder time emulating the old flatten brush by adjusting the previous settings, not sure what's wrong there...

plunq
09-14-2009, 09:18 PM
Unfortunately neither of the "fixed" flatten brushes is anything like the old Flatten Brush, they both still cause splaying polygons and make surfaces even more lumpy than before you use them So you still have to go in and adjust them although now I seem to be having a harder time emulating the old flatten brush by adjusting the previous settings, not sure what's wrong there...

Support at Zbrushcentral suggested: Select the Flatten Brush and activate Buildup option in Brush/Modifiers.

Not sure if this will yield better results for you.

Nemoid
09-14-2009, 10:01 PM
Amazed. Just installed 3.5 this morning, and now I have to download 3.5R2 yet ! :D
I wonder what i'll have in one week... :)

bale
09-15-2009, 04:47 AM
Just wondering, do I have to send them a request for 3.5? I cant seem to find the download in the upgrade section. Sorry if its been explained already but I don't have time to go through the forums.

tharrell
09-15-2009, 04:59 AM
Yeah, it's kinda weird the way they did it. I was looking around for a download link and there wasn't one.

Just re-download the .zip that's linked in the email you received, it's been updated to R2.

--T

bale
09-15-2009, 05:42 AM
I just sent Cleverbridge an email. I haven't even recieved an email about the update, so I was just wondering if anybody else is in the boat.

cresshead
09-15-2009, 05:47 AM
yeah my 3.5 page went "invalid"..sent a ticket in and got a new page within 30mins
downloaded and installed 3.5r2...looks nifty!

i never got round to install 3.5 so that maybe why the page went invalid..i did download the zip but not had time to install [new cat!]

ambient-whisper
09-15-2009, 06:35 AM
Support at Zbrushcentral suggested: Select the Flatten Brush and activate Buildup option in Brush/Modifiers.

Not sure if this will yield better results for you.

a guy on the forum actually went around and experimented with settings and he says that he was able to closely recreate the old flatten brush..

hope this works for ya.
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=609040#post609040

TheRazorsEdge
09-15-2009, 10:04 AM
Geez, this is cool, but do I have to get another activation code for this or does the old one still work?! I just got the first one in the mail today.

Cheers!

WyattHarris
09-15-2009, 03:44 PM
Looks like its working for me. I actually checked the link yesterday to download 3.5 to another computer and it said it had expired. Today the link is active again to download the update. Man, when I try to rush through the install notes it always blows up in my face. So far for 3.5 following them to the letter has worked without issue.

kelgy
09-15-2009, 08:04 PM
I tried taking a ztl tool model that I had made in 3.1 and generated a new displacement map for it in 3.5 v 2. It came out funny.
Anyone have similar issues with 3.1 files?

Also, I took the obj file that I had used for the model and when I imported that into a new zbrush document in 3.5 it says: the topology has changed. press Yes to transfer hi res mesh details to model or No.
I dont know what it does because the model doesnt have any extra details or subdivisions when its imported to a new document.

tharrell
09-15-2009, 08:25 PM
I tried taking a ztl tool model that I had made in 3.1 and generated a new displacement map for it in 3.5 v 2. It came out funny.
Anyone have similar issues with 3.1 files?

Also, I took the obj file that I had used for the model and when I imported that into a new zbrush document in 3.5 it says: the topology has changed. press Yes to transfer hi res mesh details to model or No.
I dont know what it does because the model doesnt have any extra details or subdivisions when its imported to a new document.

I've found in Maya when working with 32-bit displacements that I have to use alpha gain of 1, offset of -.5 most of the time now instead of 2.2, -1.1 like it's been forever. Strictly speaking the 1, -.5 values actually make far more sense than the old low-contrast maps, but I wish it was documented.

I haven't seen it produce a map that required 2.2, -1.1 since the 3.5r2 release, though.

Also keep in mind that by default it exports a single-channel 32-bit map. Your app might prefer RGB instead of grayscale files, and you'll have to check the box for 3-channel.

Make certain you use the "generate and export button" and save as TIFF instead of generate then hitting clone to save out a PSD. If you end up with a 32-bit PSD file, you'll probably end up inadvertently assigning a color profile to it when you go in to manually flip the thing, and that'll subtly muck up your displacements in a few apps.

--T

plunq
09-15-2009, 08:50 PM
Make certain you use the "generate and export button" and save as TIFF instead of generate then hitting clone to save out a PSD. If you end up with a 32-bit PSD file, you'll probably end up inadvertently assigning a color profile to it when you go in to manually flip the thing, and that'll subtly muck up your displacements in a few apps.

Why manually flip your map when you can turn on "Flip V" with "Create And Export Map"?

kelgy
09-15-2009, 09:47 PM
I got good results with

dsubpix4
smooth
flip
32 bit
3 channels

I kept adaptive off.

I always had to set it to 1 and -.5 for alpha offset since i used multi displacement 3.

No seam problem from what i can see either.

I also had 6 subdivisions. Previously I would delete the 6thlevel and do the displacement from 5.

There's definite improvement with the quality of the displacement when comparing maps.
Not having to do the seam fix script helps get a sharper mesh too I think.

inverse catheter
09-15-2009, 10:04 PM
i'd like a button that asks : ' why the f__k are your maps flipped vertical in the first place zb ? '

tharrell
09-16-2009, 12:11 AM
Why manually flip your map when you can turn on "Flip V" with "Create And Export Map"?

No reason at all other than there are about 3 completely different ways to get texture/normal/disp maps out of ZBrush now, and the "clone" button is the preferred way to get some of the maps out depending on your needs. Muscle memory & force of habit etc.

I was just pointing out that doing a manual flip and using that button with a 32-bit map would likely lead to incorrect results because newer versions of Photoshop will force you to assign a profile upon opening.

--T

Lorex
09-16-2009, 09:21 AM
haven't had the chance to try the new ZB yet. Anyone care to comment on the new "improved" perspective ?

BigPixolin
09-16-2009, 12:34 PM
haven't had the chance to try the new ZB yet. Anyone care to comment on the new "improved" perspective ?

Defintly improved but still does not act like a real perspective veiw in 3d space.

FRimasson
09-16-2009, 02:56 PM
You can't move your 'camera' inside a model, but it's no big deal : the pespetive feeling is there.

R10k
09-16-2009, 03:12 PM
haven't had the chance to try the new ZB yet. Anyone care to comment on the new "improved" perspective ?

Aside from having to turn it on all the time, it's night and day more enjoyable to use.

BigPixolin
09-16-2009, 03:14 PM
Moving things like zshperes around still alters the perspective and defintly give you the feeling of perspective becuase you watch it change right before your eyes. Still it acts alot better than last time but still not like a 3d veiwport.

Bucket
09-17-2009, 09:20 AM
3.5 does amazing things.. In fact while I was working in zbrush yesterday. I was starting to get hungry. Then suddenly a hot mini pizza popped out of my dvd drive. The monitor said, "enjoy your free pizza, courtesy of pixologic".

richcz3
09-17-2009, 04:40 PM
3.5 does amazing things.. In fact while I was working in zbrush yesterday. I was starting to get hungry. Then suddenly a hot mini pizza popped out of my dvd drive. The monitor said, "enjoy your free pizza, courtesy of pixologic".Whoa...OK - it's intervention time. Hands to your sides, stand up and step away from the computer.....:D

Spin99
09-18-2009, 11:49 PM
You know it's still fun following Cg from a distance these days.

To me it looks like the ZBrush workflow has gone a few steps more accessible to people like traditional artists. Previous versions you had to create a somewhat crude base using spheres and then convert to polys (heck knows when) then subdivide (how much ffs?) and decide when and what details to add all along. Cursing to try control the base topology all along.

Now the whole ZSphere thing seems much more tangible as a process to follow through with. You don't even have to use the base spheres. Nice. So it's brush away and you get an instant sculpture to add detail too? Looks that way.

As fast as clay? Faster? No mess? Instant results? Of course for the technically apt.
Maybe I'll still join sometime ;)

Can I ask how nice the generated topology is these days?

PS-- It's incredible the repercussion of a tool like this on things like commercial or even fine art these days. You used to sketch something on pencil. Spend a few days (weeks?) painting on it and maybe it looked realistic if you wanted it that way.

These days a couple of hours or a day and you got your sketch looking hyper real enough to comp into a photo. How unbelievable is that. Amazing times to live in. The art button is here. Wow. It only prints flat on a canvas. Perhaps the only catch? But does it matter when galleries are showing installation art any case.

cresshead
09-19-2009, 12:29 AM
Whoa...OK - it's intervention time. Hands to your sides, stand up and step away from the computer.....:D

naah he's just got the beta of 3.6...:)
4.0 will apparently ship with a beer dispenser!

bluemagicuk
09-19-2009, 03:43 PM
It only prints flat on a canvas. Perhaps the only catch? But does it matter when galleries are showing installation art any case.

Actually you can print out your 3d models for a couple hundred bucks - Pricey but pretty cool.

http://www.shapeways.com/

Laa-Yosh
09-19-2009, 07:51 PM
To me it looks like the ZBrush workflow has gone a few steps more accessible to people like traditional artists. Previous versions you had to create a somewhat crude base using spheres and then convert to polys (heck knows when) then subdivide (how much ffs?) and decide when and what details to add all along. Cursing to try control the base topology all along.

That is if you're a lonely artist.

However, if you have some nice modeler guys working at the same place, you've gotten the best possible base meshes from them ever since 2.0 and had no trouble with topology or polymeshes at all.

Now the whole ZSphere thing seems much more tangible as a process to follow through with.

I still won't really let any production stuff touch Zspheres at all.
Particularly not let our Zbrush artists mess around with them and cause all kinds of headaches for us down the line.

Can I ask how nice the generated topology is these days?

Less messy, but messy nonetheless - varied poly sizes, lots of 5-6-7 sided vertices, and so on. Zbrush is just not a modeling app.

Still nice to have Zbrush around though...

Teyon
09-19-2009, 08:33 PM
For the most part, I agree with ya ol' chum. I don't think ZSpheres are meant to replace traditional model making but instead, help with the conceptual phase. I don't use them - never quite got the knack for it - but from what I've seen, they're more for quick concept sculpts when you have no ref to work from that later gets retopo'd. I agree though, if you have someone skilled at modeling and someone skilled at sculpting, you can use almost any base mesh to start with.

moogaloonie
09-19-2009, 11:21 PM
Didn't know it had such a tendency to produce n-gons. Has to be some way to clean those up. I guess decimation master isn't out for it yet, either. I just got my download coupon, so I'm still going to try and figure it all out.

I'm wondering if I should brace myself to learn re-topo in zBrush, or pay the $80 to upgrade to 3D-Coat 3.1 which looks to have very nice re-topo tools.

Laa-Yosh
09-19-2009, 11:37 PM
Not n-gons, n-sided vertices or poles. Basically a vertex with more or less then 4 edges meeting in it.

Now of course you can't have an all-quad topology without n-sided vertices. The art or science of it is to have the least possible amount of these in the least problematic places... And it's two times as important with Zbrush, because the smooth brush makes a real mess of n-sided vertices.

Having no control over the topology itself with Zspheres means that you either have to edit the resulting adaptive skin in an external app, or resort to using the retopo tools in Zbrush. Now I haven't spent much time with them but I can tell that they're kinda rubbish compared to almost any other solution out there...

tharrell
09-19-2009, 11:44 PM
At the risk of gushing, Topogun (http://www.topogun.com) absolutely rules for retopo work ($99). Not affiliated with them in any way, just absolutely in love with the tool.

Intuitive, the developer will make bugfix builds in real-time, and it's cut down my retopo time to about 15-20 minutes a mesh (including polypainting quad guides in ZBrush if I feel the urge on complex stuff).

I was one of those guys who used to try doing ZSphere retopo, but ended up getting pissed off after about 10 minutes every time and doing it in Maya just because the workflow/precision was so icky in ZBrush. And then there was the undo issue :)

Anyhow, Topogun works so well for me that I don't even have a reason to test whether it's still flakey in 3.5 anymore, but I can use ZSpheres with reckless abandon without having to rebuild complex stuff in Maya for animation -- which used to take forever.

I quite like the ZSphere sketch thing, although it's kinda easy to end up with a samey looking lumpy squid monster. It kinda lends itself to that aesthetic.

--T

SheepFactory
09-20-2009, 12:07 AM
Having no control over the topology itself with Zspheres means that you either have to edit the resulting adaptive skin in an external app,


That is no issue at all with go-z. It is amazingly simple to send the model back and forth to do on the fly topology changes as you sculpt.

Per-Anders
09-20-2009, 12:16 AM
That is no issue at all with go-z. It is amazingly simple to send the model back and forth to do on the fly topology changes as you sculpt.
Except that there is no Go-Z on the PC side yet, and well given past release schedules and promises of release dates it probably wont be available for quite a long time yet.

ambient-whisper
09-20-2009, 12:29 AM
Not n-gons, n-sided vertices or poles. Basically a vertex with more or less then 4 edges meeting in it.

Now of course you can't have an all-quad topology without n-sided vertices. The art or science of it is to have the least possible amount of these in the least problematic places... And it's two times as important with Zbrush, because the smooth brush makes a real mess of n-sided vertices.

Having no control over the topology itself with Zspheres means that you either have to edit the resulting adaptive skin in an external app, or resort to using the retopo tools in Zbrush. Now I haven't spent much time with them but I can tell that they're kinda rubbish compared to almost any other solution out there...

3.5 is nowhere near as bad with nsided verts as in the past. what i generally will do is smooth over the surface and any spots where it didnt smooth like i expected ( due to the Nverts ) i just use the clay finish brush to polish the surface.

3.0 had its issues, and quite a few are gone in 3.5

FRimasson
09-20-2009, 09:40 AM
There's 'still' no Goz actually, but you can already export and import Maya files. You can modify your geo, edgeflow, without loosing hies details.

BigPixolin
09-20-2009, 04:03 PM
I quite like the ZSphere sketch thing, although it's kinda easy to end up with a samey looking lumpy squid monster. It kinda lends itself to that aesthetic.

--T

No offense to anyone but I have not seen one zsphere sketch that looked even remotly good or not like a lump of alien poop with muscles. There are some really horrible looking thngs out there that are just lumps of unreconizable spheres and people are praising them as amazing and a new artform in itself at zbc.:argh: Maybe it is just a matter of time but I would like to see something made with zsketches that looks as good as just sculpting a base mesh.

tharrell
09-20-2009, 04:29 PM
No offense to anyone but I have not seen one zsphere sketch that looked even remotly good or not like a lump of alien poop with muscles. There are some really horrible looking thngs out there that are just lumps of unreconizable spheres and people are praising them as amazing and a new artform in itself at zbc.:argh: Maybe it is just a matter of time but I would like to see something made with zsketches that looks as good as just sculpting a base mesh.

I think given time we'll see decent stuff come out of it, but right now it is amazingly quick if you're just doodling to block in forms & get a sense of mass. Anything that lets me explore ideas without a plan is useful in my book.

Granted, once I get my mass down I make a proper low-res cage to work off of, but being able to sketch mass that quickly has its merits... I'm sure people will figure out workflows to get crisper silhouettes out of it in time.

But yeah. Alien squid poop with muscles. Reminds me of Photoshop filter abuse. Folks will regain restraint soon enough :)

--T

chemkid
09-20-2009, 04:48 PM
[...]No offense to anyone but I have not seen one zsphere sketch that looked even remotly good or not like a lump of alien poop with muscles.[...]

but considering that there's still no v3.5-beta-tester gallery around... makes me wonder what version the beta testers have right now. guess it's something more zb4-like than that interim-release zb3.5r2...

so, better be a little bit more patient and wait for that v4 release, with it, i'm pretty sure you'll get a gallery and jaw-dropping workflows for something better than "alienpoop with muscles". ;-)


cheers,


chem!

R10k
09-20-2009, 04:54 PM
No offense to anyone but I have not seen one zsphere sketch that looked even remotly good or not like a lump of alien poop with muscles.

I thought this was pretty good (top of the page, obviously)

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=74994&page=3

There are a few other nice ones in that thread too.

...and people are praising them as amazing and a new artform in itself at zbc.

Maybe they are to some people over there.

richcz3
09-20-2009, 05:07 PM
No offense to anyone but I have not seen one zsphere sketch that looked even remotly good or not like a lump of alien poop with muscles. There are some really horrible looking thngs out there that are just lumps of unreconizable spheres and people are praising them as amazing and a new artform in itself at zbc.:argh: Maybe it is just a matter of time but I would like to see something made with zsketches that looks as good as just sculpting a base mesh.Considering just how new Zspheres 2/Sketch is, I think people have only scratched the surface of what can be done creatively. Many people right now are using the default brushes and their settings as would be expected.

Art form? Haven't heard that, but if it's creating a buzz, I wouldn't put it past the possibility though. Art is highly subjective, so that would be up to those admiring the work to justify it. Given some time individuals will perfect their own look and styles, who is to say what it is or isn't. I'm sure it will be a novelty for some - The "Spore" of 3D modeling? :curious:. But again those that stick with it are sure to produce some impressive works.

Sketch is more a means to an end. Using the right combination of Sketch brushes, ideal Unified Skin settings, and converting the model into Polymesh, that's where it should really shine. Technically sketch is just a another tool that helps in creating a base model. If people choose to use the tool alone - more power to them :thumbsup:

Chokmah
09-20-2009, 05:55 PM
I totally agree with richcz3 .

I really think that the real goal of ZSphere2/Sketch isn't to get final art, but to get an adaptive skin from them and then sculpt the polymesh to get the final result .... as usual :)

I tested it, and I can say it's very usefull to get a basic shape with them, more easy than old Zsphere , especially when posing them to get basic shape for posed models .

iatriki
09-20-2009, 09:26 PM
the new adaptive skin is not too fun to work with. The mesh is too dense in some regions and it has naughty star vertices .

Gwot
09-21-2009, 12:37 AM
I still have yet to try the new zsketching... it does look like a step forward from the old zspheres in terms of allowing you more freedom to sculpt up front. However, after using voxels to do the same thing pretty much I can't help but feel that on the surface, voxels are an easier and more direct approach. I'm not hyping 3dcoat by any means, just making an observation. I'm not really interested in the abstraction that zspheres inject into the sculpting process so it is a bit odd to be seeing so much focus on that aspect at this point. They really are, and always have been just a means to an end for me.

It does seem like the new features are making it easier to produce more bad work initially though - which tells me they are much more accessible now (that's a good thing). But even some of the good zsketches I'm seeing strike me as more cumbersome to have brought to that stage, only to convert to polygons anyway. With voxels I just sketch out a curve rig, pose it and start sculpting. Seems like an awful lot of extra tools and such were needed to achieve the same end result with zspheres.

I've recently started a new piece from scratch using the curve tool in 3dcoat and have been taking screen caps at different stages. I plan on doing the same with zketching once I get my upgrade installed, more for personal comparison than anything. I've always been a big zsphere advocate and have used them quite a lot up till now so it's important to me to see the differences between the new ones and this new voxel approach that I've been playing with.

Here's the WIP gallery so far:

Voxel Sculpt from Curve Rig (http://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/92176/1/Sagat?h=712c5e)

Lots left to do, but the process from start till present has been much easier and more enjoyable than all my previous zsphere works have been. Just need to give the new zsphere tools a spin now and draw my own conclusions I guess.

cresshead
09-21-2009, 01:24 AM
i still see voxel sculpts as blobby rice pudding looking things..not seen much in the way of smooth clean curves or flat surfaces from it in 3dcoat.

it's new though just as z sphere II is...plenty of scope for artists to get used to them.

Gwot
09-21-2009, 01:50 AM
i still see voxel sculpts as blobby rice pudding looking things..not seen much in the way of smooth clean curves or flat surfaces from it in 3dcoat.

it's new though just as z sphere II is...plenty of scope for artists to get used to them.
You only get out of voxel sculpting what you put in... same as with zb or mud. The tools are there to hone a sculpt though if that is what you are implying. Understandable that there isn't a large selection of examples to draw from when the toolset is so young - most people probably haven't even heard of 3dc, let alone used it to any degree of competence. Which is why I draw my conclusions on personal experience rather than what I see others do with it.

R10k
09-21-2009, 02:24 AM
the new adaptive skin is not too fun to work with. The mesh is too dense in some regions and it has naughty star vertices .

Watch the training vids at Zbrush.com. There are methods to build better meshes.

However, after using voxels to do the same thing pretty much I can't help but feel that on the surface, voxels are an easier and more direct approach.

On the surface, yes... but there are clear advantages to the new ZSpheres. That's not to say say the voxel workflow doesn't have advantages too.

Gwot
09-21-2009, 02:44 AM
Yeah I think there are going to be trade offs with both by the look of things. Some things easier with voxels, others easier with polygons and the tools that are used to work with both.

Spin99
09-21-2009, 09:13 AM
That is if you're a lonely artist.

However, if you have some nice modeler guys working at the same place, you've gotten the best possible base meshes from them ever since 2.0 and had no trouble with topology or polymeshes at all. Less messy, but messy nonetheless - varied poly sizes, lots of 5-6-7 sided vertices, and so on. Zbrush is just not a modeling app.Thanks for sharing. Maybe following from the distance and having an imagination doesn't really help anyone know much about Cg technique these days.

I guess decimation master isn't out for it yet, eitherI think this is where the future keeps looking really promising.


Nice to hear so many comments on topology :)

I'm guessing it will be a job changing situation. But still wondering when computers and software get to the stage where a workflow like ZBrushes new one is all you need to do. A digital version of sculpture period. With a technical side to it, sure.

I really don't like the amount of time it takes to get mesh topology to look nice. Also how it influences final form sometimes unwantedly. It's compromise. Personally can't really enjoy it much. I like doing things fast :(

Sure whether ZSpheres work is art remains a debatable point? But I'm pretty sure you can make Art with it? Even if only commercial art. I still believe it's what is going down in history for our times.

The digital revolution. Digital art. Taxidermy less representative of our days. Installations are extremely old news. 60's? I don't understand where people miss them at all personally..

PS--Maybe a hologram installation. Now that would make more sense.

Nemoid
09-21-2009, 09:17 AM
Right now i'm trying a bit the zspheres 2, i have to say they're awesome once you start understanding how they work(which i'm slowly understanding hehe) you can reach also to draw some kinda muscles especially if you start with subtle layers of spheres (smoothing m down in the armature) then building up.

You can lay down what spheres you thing you needm, then further work with them. if you instead lay down tons of z spheres you end up with a sort of "mess" difficult to manage.

I am especially fond of the bulge and bulge flush brushes wich allow to give the correct volume to spheres.

Mainly i think zspheres 2 are intended to create volume of whatever kind onto an armature, which you can pose while modelling.

In any way you can get a perfect great looking model without sculpting futher, but as said its not intended to produce a perfect mesh, but a good volume to futher work with. binding works like a charm.

Btw, this is what i found now, experimenting a bit after watching the vids.maybe some more experienced artist will find cool methods to obtain perfect results. :)

ps i found that, using colorize option you can obtain colored zspehers of every kind ehhehe
ps 2 they also updated the adaptive skin method. what we have now produces better results than traditional one in some cases and you have the traditional method too. Nifty!!

Laa-Yosh
09-21-2009, 09:23 AM
Nice to hear so many comments on topology :)

I'm guessing it will be a job changing situation. But still wondering when computers and software get to the stage where a workflow like ZBrushes new one is all you need to do. A digital version of sculpture period. With a technical side to it, sure.

The character modeling workflow in the movie VFX industry has always been like this...
Artist creates clay sculpt, it gets digitized into a point cloud, modeler builds tidy mesh on top of this reference. Now we are at a stage where the clay maquette isn't necessary, you can sculpt on the computer and thus do it faster and cheaper. Retopo tools are far more advanced then before, too.

Big budget productions and lead CG characters will still require real, physical clay sculptures for the approval process though. It still looks different in real life then on the computer. Maybe stereo 3D will change that, but I wouldn't be that sure.

tonytrout
09-21-2009, 10:07 AM
You really cant beat a well thought out and built hand made mesh, whether its from scratch, a retopo over scanned data or a retopo over a hires sculpt. I agree sculpt perspective in a 3D app is not as good as working in the real thing.

cresshead
09-21-2009, 11:46 AM
The character modeling workflow in the movie VFX industry has always been like this...
Artist creates clay sculpt, it gets digitized into a point cloud, modeler builds tidy mesh on top of this reference. Now we are at a stage where the clay maquette isn't necessary, you can sculpt on the computer and thus do it faster and cheaper. Retopo tools are far more advanced then before, too.

Big budget productions and lead CG characters will still require real, physical clay sculptures for the approval process though. It still looks different in real life then on the computer. Maybe stereo 3D will change that, but I wouldn't be that sure.

Question>>
could they not just print out the sculpture using a 3d printer?
That's what they did for caroline featue for the stop frame models...made in maya
and printed out as real 3d heads/faces so whynot just 'go digital' and print out a 3d version to trhow around the board room meeting?

in this ecconomic climate it would be faster/cheaper/more adaptable/faster turnaround for an edit/update also...and 'copies'...

AJ
09-21-2009, 11:53 AM
in this ecconomic climate it would be faster/cheaper/more adaptable/fater turnaround for an edit also...and 'copies'...While I do see what you're saying, the time/cost of producing a 3D print at every approval stage in a character/creature's development would be prohibitively vast compared to a clay maquette.

Laa-Yosh
09-21-2009, 12:01 PM
Not to mention the ability to quickly modify the clay maquette based on client/director feedback. You don't get that with a rapid prototype.

The tech has its place in the workflow though. As far as I know Weta did something like this with Gollum:

clay maquette for the body -> approval -> digitizing -> rescale 200% in computer -> rapid prototype for 2x sized maquette -> cover it with a thin layer of clay again -> sculpt surface detail -> digitize for final displacement maps

The redesigned head was another clay sculpt. And when they thought that the ears were too big, Roger Taylor just cut it down with a knife ;)

cresshead
09-21-2009, 01:51 PM
Not to mention the ability to quickly modify the clay maquette based on client/director feedback. You don't get that with a rapid prototype.

The tech has its place in the workflow though. As far as I know Weta did something like this with Gollum:

clay maquette for the body -> approval -> digitizing -> rescale 200% in computer -> rapid prototype for 2x sized maquette -> cover it with a thin layer of clay again -> sculpt surface detail -> digitize for final displacement maps

The redesigned head was another clay sculpt. And when they thought that the ears were too big, Roger Taylor just cut it down with a knife ;)

i 'know' it's "the done thing" to have a clay model but really your not looking to sell plastic moulded toys as the end 'goal' but rather a good image on screen so i'm just curfuddled and outardly baffeled why they continue to make something out of clay at all...just seems a waste of time and money to me...
your better off with a zbrush/mudbox/3dcoat sculpt... than a lump of clay drying out and cracking on someone's desk...just seems a ego trip more than something of actual use..
a zbrush model is 'on screen' so is the film total 1:1 connection...
sounds like someone doesn't want to let go of the steam age to me...

as for live editing...err..yeah right!..it's simply impossible to edit a zbrush model ...like err totally wrong...just whack it one with your wacom using the flatten brush or whatever!
gee you can even pose it...using GoZ...doh!

i just don't get it..someone needs to justify it pretty darn well otherwise it's like throwing money on a bonfire...

Laa-Yosh
09-21-2009, 01:59 PM
Well, it's pretty lucky that we have you to tell the industry how to do things then.

cresshead
09-21-2009, 02:01 PM
that's progress for ya!...:beer:

if it was a toy company making plastic moulded toys..i'd see the need.
but film companies make..err..films!..you know 'images on screens'
i surpose all the matte painters also go out and make little clay sculpts of their
backgrounds as well just to please the ego's in suits....

just appears 'silly' to me..

AJ
09-21-2009, 02:24 PM
i just don't get it..someone needs to justify it pretty darn well otherwise it's like throwing money on a bonfire...
Zbrush Single User License (http://www.pixologic.com/store/) - $595
50lbs of clay (http://www.lagunaclay.com/clays/western/wc392.php) - $18.05

Nemoid
09-21-2009, 03:13 PM
THere are several reasons to keep adopting that process

First off the of being able to correctly evaluate the model from people not used working with sculpting programs and such.

I also think there's tons of traditional sculptors able to make wonders with real clay, but not working digitally yet, even though there are many doing great jobs in apps like ZB or Mudbox now.


There are also many things involved, from a vfx perspective. Right now coupling traditional approach with prostetics and CG fx is the best, to make a believable movie.
3D is near to obtain perfect results, btw, but sometimes a practical fx does better with less money and time involved.

To project some characers they still use to start from real actors, with chalk, then work on it with plastiline or clay. This allowed to build masks, costumes and prostetics with foam latex(masters like rick baker do this even now so its commmon practice).

BTW being able to create maquettes from scratch to digitally project creatures and such is a really great benefit. Works great, especially to create concept art, too.

Also you can go from digitalized clay maquette to mesh for animation and detail it within ZB or Mudbox, so i really don't see the problem.

A mixed approach is what works better most of times.

Chokmah
09-21-2009, 03:18 PM
... and nothing else to say lol

I totally agree with the point of view of Nemoid .

The wise choice is usually using mixed approach, as for Mocap and hand made animation .

SeaJackal
09-21-2009, 03:37 PM
that's progress for ya!...:beer:

if it was a toy company making plastic moulded toys..i'd see the need.
but film companies make..err..films!..you know 'images on screens'
i surpose all the matte painters also go out and make little clay sculpts of their
backgrounds as well just to please the ego's in suits....

just appears 'silly' to me..

I think that it's all about referencing the real world. Matepainters don't need to builda sculpt of they backgrounds if they can go out and look at the real thing. If we are talking about fantasy creatures, of course that would be imposible. So the best way for everybody to visualize and evaluate the dessign would be to have it in 3d in fron of us. it's true that it's possible to prtint out a model out of ZB, but in the approval process it would become extremely expensive to do so, everytime there's a change

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