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verb3k
09-08-2009, 07:35 AM
The title says it all:
http://www.blendernation.com/blender-smoke-simulation-update/

It is interesting to note that all smoke simulations are running in real time at a surprisingly high frame rate. Once the cache system is implemented, you can even get exceedingly high resolution smoke play very fast in the viewport.

bjoern
09-08-2009, 09:10 AM
wOW! That looks sweet!

thematt
09-08-2009, 09:20 AM
hahaaha..the preview puts maya fluid system to shame! Autodesk please wake up a little!

bjoern
09-08-2009, 09:42 AM
I don't know if blender has it... But i think if it would get an interface like Houdini (I mean the Nodepart, not everything) or ICE, in generell not only for particles... Blender would atract allot of people. I think it would take the CG industry with a nodebased aproch by storm!

Magnus3D
09-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Ok wow that's very impressive! :thumbsup: i'm curious if you can define a heat of a object that emits smoke and fire and also if you can set a object as a igniter so if it passes through gas and/or smoke then it will ignite that, and if you can set the temperature of a object. And i'm also wondering about how many levels of turbulence there can be.. if it's only a main turbulence or if the smoke and fire will generate more turbulence because the air is heated by the smoke and fire.

/ Magnus

MAN0
09-08-2009, 11:17 AM
wooow, this looks stunning...seems like i have to check out blender sooner or later

ManDay
09-08-2009, 11:21 AM
hahaaha..the preview puts maya fluid system to shame! Autodesk please wake up a little!

Haha, yeah, sometimes I wonder... Great to see how Blender shapes up! :D

I guess if all the development time companies and individuals put in writing Maya Scripts and fixing the endless list of bugs went into developing Blender, the latter would outrun the the former in less than a year...

Cheesestraws
09-08-2009, 11:44 AM
It looks fast but it doesn't seem to have much control.

Br1
09-08-2009, 03:00 PM
Are these all realtime for sure ? I downloaded today' s build and followed this tutorial :

http://3dswamp.blogspot.com/2009/08/hello-all.html

It sure is far from realtime for me. Am I doing something wrong or are those simulations cached ? (or do you have an example file with realtime performance ?).

Thx

br1

Titus
09-08-2009, 03:49 PM
It looks fast but it doesn't seem to have much control.

That's the idea, an easy setup just like the fluids.

toontje
09-08-2009, 04:14 PM
But don't be fooled though. The fluid sim can have its viscosity and other parameters animated. In the new Blender 2.5 paradigm where everything is animatable, you could very well experience a lot of control in the smoke, fluid, cloth and softbody sim.

Besides, I think that the icing on the cake should be force fields controls (wind, vortex etc) and animated obstacles.

Cheesestraws
09-08-2009, 04:29 PM
But having fully animatable values is the corner stone of most high-end applications already. I would have been more surprised if it did not have that ability.

verb3k
09-08-2009, 04:34 PM
But having fully animatable values is the corner stone of most high-end applications already. I would have been more surprised if it did not have that ability.

In Blender 2.5, *everything* is animateable, even the number of frames per animation is animateable :) (they had to fix it so that it doesn't animate)

Cheesestraws
09-08-2009, 04:55 PM
Yes and that is the same for applications like Houdini and Maya, it is in fact a side-effect of Maya's architecture where time itself is merely an animated parameter.

The real-time display however does look superior to either Houdini or Maya's.

DMack
09-08-2009, 05:08 PM
That's pretty cool!

RFX
09-08-2009, 06:08 PM
The sim times look alright for now, I'd be interested to see how things setup, and how you can emit the fluids, be it object sourcing, particle sourcing, that sort of sutff.

Though I don't really think opengl playback of the fluids in the viewport is really very important, I'd much rather see actual renders and the shaders and render times of those, so far from what I've looked around it doesn't look that great, still needs a lot of key features for that sort of things.

I'll definitely keep an eye on it, but until there's good looking renders with actual render time comparisons, it's only going to be a hobby tool.

toontje
09-08-2009, 08:34 PM
In Blender 2.5, *everything* is animateable, even the number of frames per animation is animateable :) (they had to fix it so that it doesn't animate)

No, not *everything* is animatable, but EVERYTHING is animatable. As far as I know, even GUI elements, buttons and such are animatable.

CorsairX
09-09-2009, 04:10 AM
I found Allan Brito's tutorial (http://www.blender3darchitect.com/2009/08/how-to-use-the-new-smoke-feature-of-blender-3d-2-50/) handy when I was trying to get to grips with setting up the smoke sim.

Regarding renders, I don't think we'll see too much until Durian gets under way and they start pushing the tools. Especially given that both smoke and the volumetric rendering systems are under heavy development. Blender 2.5x?

uncle_frankie
09-09-2009, 11:33 AM
But having fully animatable values is the corner stone of most high-end applications already. I would have been more surprised if it did not have that ability.

A lot of things were animatable but not everything. I think Blender was originally released in 1995? Consequentially it can be a bit old fashioned in some areas. Personally I miss Maya's repeat last action/tool and ngons. But these are coming.

Br1
09-09-2009, 12:36 PM
http://3dswamp.blogspot.com/2009/08/hello-all.html

1

Anyone else tried the tutorial and got something close to realtime fluids ?

fktt
09-09-2009, 04:15 PM
I think Blender was originally released in 1995?
definitely not that early, it was first a in-house tool, besides that,
it's development started in '94 and iirc. the first year,
or about so went under designing the internal data management(dna). :)

I think it was first released in the open(not open source) around '98 or so, iirc.

harkyman
09-09-2009, 04:26 PM
"even GUI elements, buttons and such are animatable..."

Just want to make something clear. Blender uses the Model-View-Control (MVC) paradigm. It won't be that the controls/buttons are animatable. The values and settings they represent will be animatable. The controls and view will reflect the animation of the underlying model. I know that's a fine point, but I think it's helpful to be aware of the way things really are under the hood. In the end, it leads to a better understanding of the tool overall, and better (?!) work.

verb3k
09-09-2009, 04:54 PM
"even GUI elements, buttons and such are animatable..."

Just want to make something clear. Blender uses the Model-View-Control (MVC) paradigm. It won't be that the controls/buttons are animatable. The values and settings they represent will be animatable. The controls and view will reflect the animation of the underlying model. I know that's a fine point, but I think it's helpful to be aware of the way things really are under the hood. In the end, it leads to a better understanding of the tool overall, and better (?!) work.

Nodes are animatble :)
http://vimeo.com/3403282

harkyman
09-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Nodes are animatble

Okay, that's cute, but probably shouldn't have been done. RNA for node positions shouldn't be exposed for animation. Oh well.

fktt
09-09-2009, 05:11 PM
Okay, that's cute, but probably shouldn't have been done. RNA for node positions shouldn't be exposed for animation. Oh well.

I don't know if you can animate the scale of the nodes in the view port,
but if you can, I can see this be useful for authors who create video tutorials. ;)

Liquidape
09-09-2009, 07:23 PM
Are these all realtime for sure ? I downloaded today' s build and followed this tutorial :

http://3dswamp.blogspot.com/2009/08/hello-all.html

It sure is far from realtime for me. Am I doing something wrong or are those simulations cached ? (or do you have an example file with realtime performance ?).

Thx

br1

If you have a super high end rig you can pull it off in real-time, but I can't on my system. Need to cache for it to look that good.

everlite
09-09-2009, 09:51 PM
am i right in hearing that the UI is animatable? please tell me all ye blender developers are putting more effort into practical and useful tools :) .. seriously why would it be useful to animate the UI? ... similar to that i saw some progress videos recently of a guy playing around with the fonts in the UI! ... hmmm, im sure there's far more important areas that need attention :P

Anyway, not to divert from the topic ...

The smoke system looks pretty attractive to me, but like one poster pointed out, we need figures, render times etc .. is all this stuff available now? theres some kind of beta version of 2.5 right? is the smoke system built into this already?

Also make sure there's some pretty darn good video tutorials for when all this is released ... and tutorials made by artists, not developers ... sorry :) but the success of any tool for me, is very much in usability, well thats just me ... but most artists hate to read the manuals, they just want to pick it up and push it around a little and have things working right off the bat ... haivng presets would be a good idea too ...

Dave.

harkyman
09-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Hey Dave -- Don't worry. That animatable nodes thing is an unintended side-effect.

everlite
09-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Well since posting that last post ive downloaded 2.5 and got the smoke working, pretty simple really ... though the two tutorials mentioned above need a little rewriting to fill in the gaps :/

And i'm on a pretty average laptop duocore i think ... in real time the smoke lags, but it's pretty simple to cache and run from there ..

Looks promising so far, now to find out what happens when i up the density and start tweaking ... adding forces, collisions etc ...

Dave

mfoxdogg
09-10-2009, 05:37 AM
hehehe yeah ummm dancing nodes is a pleasent side efect, and those values are in rna for python

uncle_frankie
09-10-2009, 09:43 PM
am i right in hearing that the UI is animatable? please tell me all ye blender developers are putting more effort into practical and useful tools :) .. seriously why would it be useful to animate the UI? ... similar to that i saw some progress videos recently of a guy playing around with the fonts in the UI! ... hmmm, im sure there's far more important areas that need attention :P

The current version of Blender gets a lot of flak for it's interface. Hopefully 2.5 will give users the power to do whatever they want with the interface. Good and bad. Might even give Blender the power to look like MovieOS (tm) ;) or a layout customised to a projects needs.

XDragon
09-11-2009, 12:33 AM
Verb3k: please do some research before making assumptions like realtime smoke calculation, it's not realtime calculation as that's even seen on Genrich's own preview video of simulating the smoke. Also, it would help to assume the other apps. together with plugins have just about everything under the sun except cutting edge SIGGRAPH papers, if app. X doesn't have these features app. Y may actually have them.

I don't think the Blender devs. are saying 2.5 is production ready right now, there's still a host of missing features to put back in, bugs to fix, and quirks that need ironing out. Last I heard they may be trying for a functional preview release in October and the official 2.5 release after project Durian.

verb3k
09-11-2009, 01:16 AM
Verb3k: please do some research before making assumptions like realtime smoke calculation, it's not realtime calculation as that's even seen on Genrich's own preview video of simulating the smoke. Also, it would help to assume the other apps. together with plugins have just about everything under the sun except cutting edge SIGGRAPH papers, if app. X doesn't have these features app. Y may actually have them.

I don't think the Blender devs. are saying 2.5 is production ready right now, there's still a host of missing features to put back in, bugs to fix, and quirks that need ironing out. Last I heard they may be trying for a functional preview release in October and the official 2.5 release after project Durian.

Real-time can be .5 frame per second. The point to make is that is is being processed on the fly, not playing from cache. "surprisingly high frame rate" compared to what other packages will be able to solve, doesn't mean the sims were running at 30 fps.

XDragon
09-11-2009, 09:21 PM
0.5 frames per second? Isn't that pushing the definition of realtime a bit?

There is a line that has been drawn between when you have realtime simulation and when it's not realtime. I advise you look up when something is safetly considered realtime and when it is not (Like the Blender Internal renderer is not realtime even when rendering the default cube with minimal bells and whistles added to it). Realtime doesn't mean it's calculating the data without pause, otherwise a black hole simulation on a mainframe that takes a minute to advance a frame, but is calculating it the whole time would be considered realtime simulation.

LetterRip
09-12-2009, 12:00 AM
everlite,

Blender is 'open source' so the builds you are seeing are not beta, but builds off of the in development version that anyone who has followed a tutorial on how to build blender (actually pretty trivial to do) can do. We typically don't do what would be called a beta until about two weeks before the official release.

Actual beta will be end of October at the soonest.

LetterRip

TheANIMAL
09-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Ha! Animatable UI, thats just rofl amazing. You could animate the creation of a scene, and then animate animating the scene.

Uselss but hilarious.

Yecire
10-11-2009, 09:34 PM
Now that the SmokeSim's dissolve feature has been restored, I've been able to set up a decent fire effect. Here's my latest animated test:

Vimeo link (http://vimeo.com/7000900)
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz106/Yecire/Fire-1.jpg


The next test should be higher resolution, and have some new Force Field goodness thrown in ... :wip:

DigitalNeutrinos
10-14-2009, 05:07 PM
I love to know about what time frame was that animation created hours, minutes?

Yecire
10-14-2009, 08:41 PM
I didn't pay close attention to the time, since both simulation & rendering are still being developed/optimized. No part of the process took hours, though rendering smoke easily could depending on the setup. The compositing (to improve the look of the flame) took very little time.

Simulation: didn't take long at all with a base resolution of 64, esp. the fire as it has dissolve enabled (High Resolution was not enabled for the fire or smoke, and probably would make the flames look incorrect).

Rendering: pretty fast for the fire ... again, it fills less space due to dissolve, and it can be rendered Shadeless. The smoke of course was slower due to shading and size. The Step size for both was set to 0.05, but would be smaller (and slower) for a high-quality or large render.

Keep in mind, these are just general impressions (walked away from the processes often), and this is on a pretty beefed-up system using an OpenMP enabled build.

As things progress, I'll include time frames for both simulation & rendering, and try to do a video tutorial to show how quick it is to set up.

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