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mattregnier
08-07-2003, 07:09 PM
Software: 3DSMax 5.1, Texture in PS

I need some help with the skin textures, what areas should be fixed/improved. I currently have three maps, a diffuse, bump, and specular. If you see any major problems with the mesh, let me know. The crease down the center of the face is caused because it has not been welded yet. I have the body and upper torso modeled as well, but not textured yet.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/professor01.jpg

Wires/Shaded/Textured:

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/professor.jpg

Thanks-

mattregnier
08-08-2003, 05:05 PM
Update: Worked on arm textures, and face, the shirt/tie are still temporary...need some feedback guys...

>>BODY<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_41.jpg)

squeaky
08-08-2003, 08:59 PM
Overall: The head is looking nicely detailed, the skin texture good but blurry, the facial details feel flat, and the body appears very "box-modelled".

As far as the head model is concerned:
The facial muscles don't feel like they follow the structure of an underlying skull. Reference, reference, reference...even if you're going for a cartoony style! Most of the details from your wire look like they're in the right place, though you probably could simplify the model and let the textures do some of the work.

As far as the body/shirt is concerned:
The body looks heavily box modelled/mesh-smoothed...arms and shirt are blocky, and the tie comes to an uncharacteristic point. Obviously this is a WIP, so I'd suggest that you spend some time refining the geo for the body like you have for the head. Look at the way cloth drapes over a body, and investigate the way pockets are sewn onto a shirt. Realizing little details like this will bring more believability to your model, be it hyper-realistic or cartoony.

As far as the textures/shaders are concerned:
I can't really see the specular or bump maps. Try adjusting your materials to allow these effects to show through better, also you might want to post your bump/spec maps as well. Could be that there's not enough or the right kind of contrast in the images.

That's all I've got for now! Keep it up, and post more updates ASAP!! :thumbsup:

Gary

DarkVark
08-08-2003, 09:18 PM
umm..

just adding on squeaky.

you should have a look at your hand (thumb) alltough i cant make it out all that well i can see that it has no "depth" (structional of undelying skeleton) , add some more meat at the base of the thumb and make the hand flow more into the lower arm

also , if you look at your arm(real arm)you'll see a bulge at the inside of your elbow and a more flat frontal appearance..

the face has got a seam at the upper lip & chin.

i got nothin else ,

keep it up!

MarkSnoswell
08-08-2003, 11:29 PM
I see light in the nose at one angle there -- turn off all non shadow casting lights.

You really do need some sort of translucency or translucency face in your shader... the ears and the inside of the nose should be way redder from scattered transmitted light.

Your texture maps need to we way higher rez -- even for video work a close up head warrents a 2K texture map -- for film work 3 - 4K texture maps.

You need real or fake refraction for the eye lens -- if you don't the gaze will not appear correct. THis is not being picky - a number of papers at SIGGRAPH this year demonstrated the problem and aproaches to fixing it.

mattregnier
08-11-2003, 02:36 PM
Wow- was out for the weekend and everyone replies...
here we go

squeaky-

Yeah his torso is pretty boxy still yet, I'll work on rounding it out a bit more...for the pockets, should they just be acheived with a bump map, or should I still try to model them in?

DarkVark-

The thumb will be fixed, and I noticed too the arms are looking boxy still, I believe just pulling some verts around this shouldn't be too bad of a fix...

Mark.Snoswell-

In a 3 pt lighting setup, generally the key light casts shadows correct? I just want to make sure that's how it goes cause that's how we were taught to do it at school. I'll tweak the lighting and see if I can fix that. As far as my texture maps, yes they are really low res, I started with a digital camera pic and painted on it, so that's where all the blurryness comes from. As for the eye refraction, can that just be fixed by adding a map to the refraction channel in my shader?

Thanks to everyone for the comments, I'll get to work on the corrections and post updates later...

playmesumch00ns
08-12-2003, 01:29 PM
I'm guessing you haven't joined the mesh to get rid of the big seam down the middle yet.

I think you really need to add some more detail to the face - wrinkles and stuff. These would be best done in geometry, but you could use displacement maps as well, he just seems far too smooth at the moment.

mattmos
08-12-2003, 02:18 PM
I think the use of an ambient occlusion shader would really help you out with the skin texture - it's amazing how much light coming through the ear adds to an image for example. Afraid I don't know of any for Max though... I'm sure somebody here could point you in the right direction. Keep it up :thumbsup:

sforsyth
08-12-2003, 04:10 PM
I don't get it Matt. Why not just weld the two halves together for the image you intend to post? No need to save the file or anything, and it only takes a few seconds, but it makes things a lot easier for people to see how it's going to look (including yourself).

Anyway, on to the crits.
I think his mouth needs some work. Doesn't look like it would deform very well at all. Have you modelled the inside of his mouth - teeth and all? Are you intending on animating him afterwards? You need to consider this now before finishing his textures in my opinion. I'm surprised you took the time to model in the crow's feet and yet left the mouth quite undefined...

Still, nice enough, and if the texture size is increased and the mouth fixed up, it could be a nice model.
I won't comment on the torso, as that's obviously still very much in progress.

mattregnier
08-14-2003, 03:37 PM
playmesumchoons-
welded the halfs for this update

mattmos-
that sounds great, but i think i'm gonna rework the modeling before i go back to texturing, if you hear of something like that ambient shader for max lemme know

sforsyth-
yeah i should've just welded it for post, i did it for this update. check out the mouth area, I've added another loop in the modeling. I also started shaping the torso a bit more. I'll post more when I get a chance. Thanks again to everyone for the comments they're really helping me out...

>>FACE<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp01.jpg)

Here's the updated torso shots:
>>Torso One<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp04.jpg)
>>Torso Two<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp05.jpg)

sforsyth
08-14-2003, 04:00 PM
I think his ears still need a fair bit of work too, and his eyebrow ridges seem very sharp. Hard to say without eybrows on them though.

mattregnier
08-14-2003, 05:30 PM
>>EAR<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp06.jpg)
any idea where the stretching is coming from when smoothed

sforsyth
08-15-2003, 08:53 AM
Yeah, that's probably the tri's around his ear. Change them to quads and have a another look.

phoenix
08-15-2003, 09:09 PM
hmmmm nice.:wip: ears need more details i think

mefestofel
08-17-2003, 09:52 PM
i like the model so far, but i do think you nee to do more work. One thing that bugs me is the detail you have by the eyes. If you have detair there then you should have it everywhere. it makes everything else look unfinished. The nose bridge needs a little work, and he doesn't really have cheek bones. I think he could use a bit more chin a nd a hint of jaw line.

And what's with that tie?

I think you can have a great looking character if you model in the details. I would definatly model the pockets.

Oh and it looks like he can use a bit more of an uper lip, cause now he has none.

keep up the good work

mattregnier
08-18-2003, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the crits guys keep them coming.

sforsyth - cleaned up the smoothing around the ear, it was tris :D

mefestofel - fixed bridge of the nose and added some more details...

still working, here's where i'm at now:
>>OLD Image<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp10.jpg)

sforsyth
08-19-2003, 10:18 AM
His teeth seem very small aswell...

mattregnier
08-19-2003, 02:42 PM
Haha, I actually noticed that right after I posted. Looks like he has carnivore teeth :D I'll fix the size of them and get an update posted. Are there any rules for toothsize? Proportionally ie: like the eyes usually have one eyespace inbetween them, and the body is 7-8 heads tall...etc...

lala7
08-19-2003, 03:04 PM
well your model is somewhat of age.. so i think it should not have perfect teeth and def not sparky white ..

mattregnier
08-19-2003, 07:58 PM
>>OLD Image<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp13.jpg)

close-up of teeth alone...

>>TeethFixed<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/teeth00.jpg)

lala7
08-19-2003, 10:41 PM
teeth look good dude.. :lightbulb mayb the upperlip need to be a bit higher/thicker... so that the front teeth show better..

mattregnier
08-26-2003, 09:51 PM
Hey all, sorry it's been awhile, got stuck on a few other projects. Got some time to add some more detail in today.


pic:
>>Old update<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp14.jpg)

wires:
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp15.jpg

Again I appreciate all the feedback, keep it coming...

mattregnier
08-27-2003, 08:45 PM
>>OLD UPDATE<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/temp16.jpg)

mattregnier
09-02-2003, 10:06 PM
>>Phenomes Galore<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shawHeads.jpg)

Neil
09-03-2003, 01:30 AM
Make sure to pay attention to all the secondary movements on facial animations.
Like rising/tightening of cheeks, movement of jaw, and nose.

mattregnier
09-03-2003, 05:39 PM
>>OLD Faces<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/manyFaces.jpg)

Evenflow
09-05-2003, 09:23 PM
I noticed on the torso shots, the finger lengths look off. The finger between the middle finger and the pinky should be a little longer, right now it looks like it's almost as long as the pinky. It should be closer to the length of the middle finger. Maybe it's just the angle of the shot.

mattregnier
09-05-2003, 10:22 PM
>>Body UPDATE<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shawBody_02.jpg)

jmcalpin
09-05-2003, 11:08 PM
using the eye as a measurement the head is usually 5 eyes wide. So you have a eye width for nose and on either side of the actual eyes.

Your model has close to 2 eyes width between eye and edge of head making it seem to wide. Might want to just stretch the sides of the head back in a little.

Jay

mattregnier
09-12-2003, 08:42 PM
>>old Texture<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_45.jpg)

mattregnier
09-15-2003, 06:24 PM
>>Old Texture<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_52.jpg)

>>OLDUpdate (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_55.jpg)

mattregnier
09-19-2003, 04:47 PM
>>Old Update<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shawGI.jpg)

zarkos
09-19-2003, 09:11 PM
Nice texture!!! Looking great! Maybe he is to shiny or bump is to big or something in between. You know what I meen. :thumbsup:

steadi
09-19-2003, 11:31 PM
Hi there, the longer I look at your texture the more I feel you should lower the bump map a lot.
It becomes very noticable in the rounded areas in the front (chin, nose) and seems a bit too much for human skin.
Also, you might want to add a little reflection/environment map to the specularity color.
That way the highlights will reflect a little of the environment, just like real skin.

Also, the eyes just seem a bit too clean (especially for an old man), maybe some veins would be nice.
Love the wrinkled look though, great modelling!
Peace, R.

mattregnier
09-23-2003, 04:18 PM
Alrighty guys, I lowered the bump and remodeled some features, mostly made the eyes smaller, and pulled the ears down and shrunk them a bit (more realistic proportions)...Anything else?

>>OLD UPDATE<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_63.jpg)

mattregnier
09-23-2003, 10:21 PM
neil, evenflow, jmcalpin, zarko, steadi-
thanks for info guys!
Fixed ear texture, made ears a bit larger, made eyes a bit smaller, rounded out the top of the head, and pulled the jaw down, added in an adam's apple...

>>OLD UPDATE<< (http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_64.jpg)

steadi
09-23-2003, 10:24 PM
Wow, looking good!
It still looks a bit overlit but that's just an opinion, the texture is looking great (you might want to play with the specularity a bit, he looks a bit 'wet' now, though that could be the look you want)!
Peace, R.

mattregnier
09-23-2003, 10:32 PM
Steadi-
Ask and ye shall receive :) Thanks again for the help man.

Lowered the spec, I think I'm ready to start modeling the blend shapes yet again :) and get started on the rest of this guys body.

Let me know -

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~mdregnie/shaw_65.jpg

steadi
09-23-2003, 10:38 PM
Really, in that case I ask to win the lottery next time :applause:
You work fast, I feel that lowering the specularity improved it alot, you might even want to lower the glossines some more to spread out the hot-spots.
And if you put him in an environment and add a reflection to the specular color you get really neat highlights (best seen when you move him)
Did you use a reference for the skin?
Remember to look at real skin-types and examine how they respond to light, you'll see that IRL the amount of hotspots is actually pretty low (except in things like flash photography)
Hope it makes sense, I'm pretty tired so I may be rambling
Peace, R.

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