PDA

View Full Version : Bronze Shader CC


phix314
08-27-2009, 02:38 AM
Back with another piece I'd like an outsider perspective from. I looked up "bronze statue" and they all had varying types of green and reflectivity, etc. But, I'd like to see what the community thinks of it and if I'm missing something obvious.

Model from Jeff Unay and associate's "Hyper-realistic Creature" series.

:)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/bronze1.jpg

Maya 2k9, mr.

Array
08-27-2009, 03:09 AM
This looks like a typical reflective metal shader, with ambient occlusion driving the color and reflectivity, i.e. the concave areas have a tint of green and are slightly less reflective.

EDIT:

woops, I misread your post. So this is your render then? Maybe make the bronze less orange and the oxidized parts a darker shade of bronze and not so green?

Array
08-27-2009, 03:19 AM
Here is what I came up with after tweaking your image in Photoshop, I hope you don't mind:

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/278/bronze1altered.jpg

The green parts in the midsection are tricky to get rid of, so maybe tone those down in your shader. I think the feet look pretty decent though.
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/278/bronze1altered.jpg)

phix314
08-27-2009, 05:45 AM
Thanks array, but the image you posted is incredibly contrasty. I think too much for the bronze I'm shooting for.

Adjusted the colors. There's a lot of different variations of bronze.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/bronze2.jpg

mister3d
08-27-2009, 06:17 AM
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/278/bronze1altered.jpg


This looks great to me. :thumbsup: A finished piece.

phix314
08-27-2009, 06:36 AM
Another model with the same shader, just to see.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/bronze3.jpg

phix314
08-27-2009, 06:40 PM
Ice shader I made last night. Looks a little rocky, but succeeds, IMO. More to come.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/ice1.jpg

CD4
08-27-2009, 07:32 PM
Yo Yo! Cool shader dude! MR rocks..This is a really good start man..Keep it up! Looking forward... :beer:

CD4
08-27-2009, 07:43 PM
You probably know this Zbrush shaders link:

http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/library/
:)

Magnus3D
08-27-2009, 08:33 PM
The green oxide in the bronze should be darker and more diffuse. And the bronze surface itself is pretty good but i'd like to see a bit more grime, bump and surface irregularity on it as it's just too perfect looking now.

Here are 3 different shaders i made, first one is a copper, second one is bronze and the third one is also bronze. The important thing is subtle details in surfaces, they will boost the realism so much more on a surface. Perhaps these examples can help you somehow.

http://maximus3d.se/tests/Fryrender_Copper_testrender.jpg
http://maximus3d.se/tests/Fryrender_Old-Bronze_testrender_1.jpg
http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/12/29/f_BrassVeryDam_6ce1197.jpg&srv=img34

/ Magnus

Array
08-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Hey Phix-

That ice shader looks really great! Keep them coming!

Mister3d-

Thanks for the kind words!

phix314
08-28-2009, 05:45 AM
The green oxide in the bronze should be darker and more diffuse. And the bronze surface itself is pretty good but i'd like to see a bit more grime, bump and surface irregularity on it as it's just too perfect looking now.

Here are 3 different shaders i made, first one is a copper, second one is bronze and the third one is also bronze. The important thing is subtle details in surfaces, they will boost the realism so much more on a surface. Perhaps these examples can help you somehow.


Indeed. Thanks for sending those my way. I suppose these shaders are supposed to be something clean that would be seen on a mantle or somesuch thing. The one image I tried to duplicate for the first bronze pass is this here:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2489931647_88fb822b32.jpg

As you can see it's highly oxidized and very colorful. I see what you mean about the green being more diffuse, I'll have to revisit that shader.

The second pass is based of something similar to this:

http://www.pope-john-paulii.com/images/bronzepope03.jpg

It's not an exact port, if you will (obviously), but I felt it was better suited for what I was trying to achieve. The other kicker is the model I'm using doesn't have all the UV's laid out, and it's fairly heavy. When I want some UV layout practice I'll tackle that, but for now I'm just using Maya's built in 3D procedurals and seeing how far I can take those.


You probably know this Zbrush shaders link:
...


I have seen these, and am actually a little envious at the amazing results within ZBrush. I don't use ZBrush, but I'll keep the link in my back pocket. Thanks :)

I wish I could edit my post and change this to a generic shader title, but I wasn't really planning on making much more, but I'm liking pushing my knowledge to other materials and surfaces. So I'll keep track of my endeavours here, if that's alright.

Here's a ballistics gel/latex/rubber material. Didn't base it off much, but, here it is.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/gel.jpg

phix314
08-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Stone.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/stone.jpg

I'm going about these a little willy nilly. I'll adjust the bump, color, and play with the veins later this week. I like it thought. Occlusion based stuff is fun ;)

CD4
08-28-2009, 06:14 PM
DudE the stone is comming up AWESOME :thumbsup: ....Y dont u try some liquid and volume surface??

Hea yo go Marek's new stuff: ( Amazing )

http://marekdenko.net/?page_id=61

phix314
08-29-2009, 06:25 PM
Yea Marek Denko is DA MAN!

It's funny to see someone that's THAT good make such a twisted video. Hah...

So I've decided to undertake a new project, called "100 shaders in 100 days", and the goal is just that, to make 100 materials in 100 days. I'll have to do more than one on some days because on days I work I don't have much time to do this stuff. The 4 or so I've created are going to be the start.

Start Date: Wednesday, August 26th, 2009
End Date: Friday, December 4, 2009

I haven't got all the details sorted, but I think different types of the same material are going to be allowed. I don't know that I can make 100 different materials, or even name that many...

I'll create a new thread or get my site running and post a link.

Let the games begin.

Magnus3D
08-29-2009, 06:32 PM
Good idea for a personal challenge, as long as you don't create 100 crappy shaders in 100 days just to get it done in time. Each shader should be awesome and also unique, not variation of one previously created because that would be too easy. Now, get to work! :D

/ Magnus

Unik
08-29-2009, 11:37 PM
Yea Marek Denko is DA MAN!

So I've decided to undertake a new project, called "100 shaders in 100 days",

Hey good luck with that:thumbsup: :) and your stone shader had came up very nicely :wise:

mister3d
08-30-2009, 03:45 AM
Yea Marek Denko is DA MAN!

It's funny to see someone that's THAT good make such a twisted video. Hah...

So I've decided to undertake a new project, called "100 shaders in 100 days", and the goal is just that, to make 100 materials in 100 days. I'll have to do more than one on some days because on days I work I don't have much time to do this stuff. The 4 or so I've created are going to be the start.

Start Date: Wednesday, August 26th, 2009
End Date: Friday, December 4, 2009

I haven't got all the details sorted, but I think different types of the same material are going to be allowed. I don't know that I can make 100 different materials, or even name that many...

I'll create a new thread or get my site running and post a link.

Let the games begin.

That's a silly idea, unless you are to write shaders. Changing glossiness and several other parameters won't make you a shader guru. :banghead:

Why don't you fix it in post? f you have a bronze reference, simply adjust mids, shadows and highlights to the reference. Problem solved. In 3d it may take you ages to achieve the same look. Why to make you life harder.
You think those who create 3d for films don't fix it in post? Without post a lot of stuff would look like crap.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2680/postqhm.jpg (http://img223.imageshack.us/i/postqhm.jpg/)

phix314
08-30-2009, 05:42 AM
Uh.. I'm not even sure where to start on that. I'll try.

1) who said anything about a guru?
2) if your logic stands, it would be silly for someone to model different objects cause, well, modeling a pocket knife wouldn't make them any better.
3) "why not just do it in post" is the lazy mans answer to solving a problem that can be done right the first time. Again, if your logic stands, one could throw some regular old crappy misss shaders on and in post make it look better.

I'm kinda put off by your rather ignorant response.

Back to wasting my time tweaking the same ol' parameters...

mister3d
08-30-2009, 06:21 AM
:banghead: Ok, I was a bit harsh, sorry. Doing your personal project with 100 materials is absolutely fine of course, I misunderstood your intentions, I reread what you wrote and now understand better. I would suggest some hard-to-make materials, which are challenging in 3d. Could you create a list of materials you are after?
You will have to texture those models as well, it's a lot of work I would say. That's why I considered it a bit strange like "make 100 models and you are a great modeler". It would be much more clever to create a list of those particularly common materials, and particularly challenging. Though of course what you said doesn't contradict that, my bad.

3) "why not just do it in post" is the lazy mans answer to solving a problem that can be done right the first time. Again, if your logic stands, one could throw some regular old crappy misss shaders on and in post make it look better.

So you consider those working for a 3d integration arrogant as they adjust it to the shot material? Lazy ones, why not to do it all in 3d? You disregard post-processing as something which is out of place while adjusting shaders to a reference. This is limiting for you. First of all because if you are trying to use photo as a reference, its look was post-processed as well, so you don't have the same "true" look as in a rendered image without any tonemapping and color correction. It may be simply impossible to achieve the same look for that matter.
I simply suggest you not to disregard post-processing when matching to a reference.

Kodak film era brought a trend to very contrasty and vivid images which holds even for now. So the "true" photo would look pale, very much in the same manner as 3d output without post-processing. The linear curve is changed to make the look of photos more contrasty automatically, unless shot to RAW with some preservation considerations. Some photographers are the same purists of ideology "not to touch the God-blessed "real" output". 99% of photos are digitally-manipulated before the final print\publishing.
The belief in truthfullnes of 3d medium is simple-minded.

phix314
08-30-2009, 08:20 AM
No harm no foul. My apologizes for being rash.




So you consider those working for a 3d integration arrogant as they adjust it to the shot material? Lazy ones, why not to do it all in 3d? You disregard post-processing as something which is out of place while adjusting shaders to a reference. This is limiting for you. First of all because if you are trying to use photo as a reference, its look was post-processed as well, so you don't have the same "true" look as in a rendered image without any tonemapping and color correction. It may be simply impossible to achieve the same look for that matter.
I simply suggest you not to disregard post-processing when matching to a reference.
...

No no.. not at all. I simply mean to say that the idea behind "why not just do it in post" as opposed to "we can adjust that in post" are completely different. While this is a topic I feel strong about, and can be debated for days upon days, I would just like to clear up that you are correct, the post process is vital, it just shouldn't be relied on in lieu of doing it correctly the first time. I see you point with using my previous render and source imagery, but for something like that, my view is to just get the colors closer in 3D, to reduce the amount of data loss in the post process.

Having an extensive photographic background, I understand the purist vs. modern arguement very well, and my feelings lie on both sides. The parallel is there, and I appreciate your comparing the two, as that is the main reason I became interested in 3D artwork to begin with :)

As for a list, I've been racking my brain for 100, and so far have come up with these, which I will probably expand on. Magnus- I agree and would love to do 100 unique materials, I just don't know at this point. I'll shoot for it, though.

The one thing I'm trying to keep in mind is the use of procedurals. I want to keep this as within Maya as I can.


Cotton
Frosted metal
Blood
Wax
Dusty ceramic
Bubble
Dim lightbulb
Styrofoam
Aluminum foil
Cork
Carpet
Leather
Etched glass
Sand
Diamond
Marble
Charred
Chocolate
Rubber
Coal
Cardboard
Cheese
Leaf/grass
Stucco
Chipped paint
Slime
Asphault
Gluegun glue
Plush stuffed animal
Volumetrics (fire/smoke)
Invisible but rained on
Nylon (lanyard)
Celluloid film stock
Cloth
Adobe ceramic
Heavily oxidized bronze
Oxidized car paint
Radioactive waste
Brushed metal
Magma
Cracked mud
Moldy
Stiched leather

mister3d
09-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Hi. I came up with my list of materials which are clallenging from my experience. :) Some of your materials seem too easy to me and some seem more of a texture challenge.

Dielectrics:
Coal
Rubber
Pearls
Car-paint (multi-layered)
Any other several-layered material
Dusty ceramics
Other ceramics?

Diamond
Glass (a vessel with a liquid)
Ice
Bubble (?)

Polished wood
Rock
Asphault
Volumetrics (fire/smoke)
Celluloid film stock (anisotropy?)


SSS:
cheese
Marble
Juice (not transparent)
Wax
Human skin
Etched glass
Leaf/grass
Slime (gelly?)

Conductors:
Brushed metal
Gold
Copper
Bronze
Steel
Aluminium

Self-emitting:
Radioactive waste
Magma

Cloth:
Leather
Satin
Velvet
Nylon
Plush stuffed animal
Fur

phix314
09-02-2009, 04:44 PM
True. Some are more of a texture challenge, but I would invite people to try to make a list of 100 unique materials. Not as easy as I thought.

;)

mister3d
09-02-2009, 06:31 PM
True. Some are more of a texture challenge, but I would invite people to try to make a list of 100 unique materials. Not as easy as I thought.

;)

Why do you want to make exactly 100? Even those I proposed are hard enough.

leonlabyk
09-15-2009, 06:14 PM
Your shaders look great. Are these shaders set up for Maya if so I am really strugling to create a decent stone shader and wonder if you might be willing to share how you went about creating yours. Keep up the good work.

phix314
09-16-2009, 12:48 AM
Yea I'm thinkin about "releasing" these when I'm all done for download, but just shoot me a PM with your email addy and I can send it to you.

@mister - it seemed like a good challenge, 30 in 30 days was too few when I was thinking about this, but as I go on, its getting a lot more difficult to even populate the list, so it'll be less when I deem it finished.

mister3d
09-16-2009, 03:47 AM
@mister - it seemed like a good challenge, 30 in 30 days was too few when I was thinking about this, but as I go on, its getting a lot more difficult to even populate the list, so it'll be less when I deem it finished.
Yep... I'm interested in participating also. It's better less, but working cleverer. ;)

phix314
07-01-2010, 04:00 AM
It's been a while, and as predicted there was no way. Not with, well, life. hah.

Anyway, been working on the copper for a few hours the last few days, got something I'm happy with.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/HQBrone_jpg_small.jpg

Link to hi-res (1k square)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/HQBrone_jpg.jpg

phix314
07-07-2010, 03:59 AM
I'm still playing with the lighting and render setup, this one is no FG, no bokeh, just to test how I'd go about setting up some dust.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/dustTest-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/roaphotosharing/Maya/dustTest.jpg

I'll have to find that script that aids in plugging in mia_ materials to the mix8 or some other way of applying the dust inside of Maya, as the highlights are coming through and shouldn't, at least not entirely.

It's coming along IMO.

PrayingMantis
11-22-2010, 11:54 PM
Great shaders, is it possible that you put the shader tree to learn from?

I'd love to see how you achieve the ice, rock and bronze shaders.

CGTalk Moderation
11-22-2010, 11:54 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.