Female head, need help!

[Hexodam]

looks more like a man to me, not a bad model if that was what you were aiming at ;)

could you show an unsmoothed wire for further crits

[Mindblighter]

"Ask and you shall receive"
Faceted with wires (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/wired2.jpg)

And it certainly wasn't supposed to become a man :rolleyes:

[cybernaut]

It is a great start to a mans head but of course not what your going for. The angle of the image you posted makes it difficult to properly assess what need to be adjusted. If you could posted front and side shots we could get a better idea of why it looks more masculine than feminine. :)

[Mindblighter]

Side (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_0_side.jpg)
Side, unsmoothed&wires (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_0_side_wired.jpg)
Front (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_0_front.jpg)
Front, unsmoothed&wires (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_0_front_wired.jpg)

Any ideas? :shrug:

[Mindblighter]

*bump*

Uhhh...I wonder if I should've posted this in some other section?
Come on people, I KNOW you know how to make this thing more feminine. :annoyed:

[colmite]

Hi there,

OK so this looks very man like, but I can see you already know that. What reference pictures are you using? perhaps you could post those as well so we can see where you are going wrong and gettng a more masculine face from.

[cybernaut]

Hey Mindblighter, did you get that e-mail I sent you? It was a sketch I did over your head model showing a more female proportioned head for the front and side views. I tried posting it hear a while ago but seem to have some technical problems. If you didn't get I will be more than happy to send it again. I sent it to you hotmail one the first time under "from cybernaut", will that address work again?. I think/hope it will be quite helpful. :)

[dubge]

well I would say just off the top of my head. the chin is too large and too long. the lips are too small. they should be full lips. make sure to use your reference. also you should try and strieghten out the head, it seems too tilted. The brow my be a bit large,and far apart as well.nice start other wise.

[Mindblighter]

Thanks to everyone for your replies, especially to Cybernaut for even sending mail :) I rarely get any mail besides spam so I don't check it very often.

Well, to my ref. material.
The front pic of the face I used (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/reference/cindy301.jpg)
The side pic I used (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/reference/cindy339.jpg)
Another front pic (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/reference/cindy23.jpg)
Another side pic (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/reference/cindy19.jpg)
The head with improvement suggestions by Cybernaut (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/reference/head_cybernaut.jpg)
(I hope I didn't offend anyone or break any rules with those links)

Phew.
And a couple of explanations might be in order. The reason I chose miss Crawford was because there were plenty of pics available from the correct angles (at least the pics from the links above appeared so to me, correct me if I'm wrong). And like I said, I don't want the model to look like her...more like a "typical" pretty man-eating bitch :D
Why the head is in such an angle? Well, I thought it would be better that way since in the pic I used for reference for the front I could clearly see the nostrils. Some people on this board have commented on using ref. pics that don't show them very well and I must agree since I've had my share of problems with such pictures in the past.

Okay, so blablabla, give your next load of crits before I start to change anything (I want to get a good idea of what's wrong to avoid such pitfalls in the future). Damn, this post was long ;)

[cybernaut]

I'm glad to see the reference that you used. Got some more C&C if you want them :).

Using a model like Cindy is perfect as there are undoubtedly thousands of shots of her head from different angles. I also use similar photos for reference but try never too use them as direct template. You can not be absolutely sure that you have a straight side and or straight front shot. The camera might be just a little behind the head or a little low and you can't see this until you've spent many hours making the model and being frustrated as to why things aren't working out the way they should, I speak from experience. What I do, not that this is the best way, is to take the photo and others like it into photoshop and cannibalize them for what the show best: this one has a great nose, this is the best jaw structures, the eye shape is the most accurate hear etc. I'll draw a very simple line drawing over those photos until my drawing looks like it has realistic head proportions. The image I sent you is something like that. By the why I hope that it can help.

Stay cool
:cool:

[Mindblighter]

Damn, been busy with work lately, but finally found a bit of time to tweak this one.
@Cybernaut: Yeah, I've heard of that technique but it doesn't work for me very well, I'm not very good with 2d proggies.

But anyway, I tried to follow most of the advices I've seen here and voila, it looks...different, for better or worse, you decide...
(imo it does look a bit better, but not quite right yet)

Front (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_1_front.jpg)
Side (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_1_side.jpg)
"Perspective" (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_1.jpg)

BTW, I realized that the 2D views (ortographic?) were not very reliable so I thought 3D versions would show things more like they really are.

[cybernaut]

Great improvements!!

C&C

I still would suggest rotating the head to a more verticle postion rather than a slanted one. I think it will make creating the head much easier...it really will :).

You've made some nice changes that have definitely improved her appearence greatly, but, you knew it was coming, there might be a couple of places that could be improved. I would shrink the ear a bit, even if Cindy does have a big ear it's just not very feminine. Her brow seem overly defined, women usually have a very subtly definted brow line as compared to a mans. I noticed this from the prespective shot the most. Her cheek bone also seem overly pronounced, she starting to look a bit anorexic and gaunt. The lips could probably do with a little more flesh, nice full lips are a very feminine feature. Her nose may need some adjusting from her profile, a softer curve maybe.

Hope this helps, keep up the great work :applause:

[Tobbe]

Nice improvements...

I would concentrate on the eyes. Moving them a little bit closer together, and work on the lids. As said, the mouth still need some work... The ears look good.

[Mindblighter]

Thanks for the replies again guys.
Been so busy, so damn busy...but finally managed to take the model a bit further! I actually rotated it to a better angle (whoa) this time. I gave it a little relax-treatment, scaled the ears, "amplified" the upper lip (I hope I didn't take it too far :p) and reshaped the forehead a bit.

Front (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_2_front.jpg)
Side (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_2_side.jpg)
Perspective (http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhaa/femme/head_2.jpg)

I really need to do something about the eyes, no doubt about that...

[Doubt]

Good start Mindblighter... I think you might benefit from pulling the face back more though.

Take a good look at it from the side view. It looks like you could take the whole face area and pull it back into the head, making the head narrower from the side. Also, you might choose to pull the chin in a bit more even... it might help improve the overall "hotness" of the face.

Thirdly, listen to Cybernaut... he knows his way around anatomy quite well. He's helped us a ton. Take a look at the thread in my signature... you'll see what I mean.

--doubt

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