Best book to learn Fluids and/or Particles?

[Aikiman]

Probably DVDs would be more relevant, check out Gnomon ones on expressions and dynamics. You might find some useful ones on DT as well.

[AndersEgleus]

If you wanna learn fluid dynamics REALLY in depth, there's a great set of class notes from a siggraph class 2007 by Robert Bridson. It's a lot of rocket science, but if you can be bothered to read it through, you get a very good intuitive understanding of how fluid simulation works and why (and more importantly what doesn't work and why). It's a good read even if you (like me) don't grasp all the maths. A lot of the concepts have direct equivalents in maya's fluids (e.g. when he talks about vorticity confinement, that's swirl in maya :) ).

Robert Bridson's Fluid Notes (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/%7Erbridson/fluidsimulation/fluids_notes.pdf)

You could of course also go directly to the source (Jos Stam):

Jos Stam's Real Time Fluids paper (http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/GDC03.pdf)
and
Jos Stam's Stable Fluids paper (http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/ns.pdf)

[Stellios]

thanks a lot guys that pdf will be very usefull to me :)

[Zack Attack]

wow good read, this defiantly looks helpful! just hope i can understand it.

If you wanna learn fluid dynamics REALLY in depth, there's a great set of class notes from a siggraph class 2007 by Robert Bridson. It's a lot of rocket science, but if you can be bothered to read it through, you get a very good intuitive understanding of how fluid simulation works and why (and more importantly what doesn't work and why). It's a good read even if you (like me) don't grasp all the maths. A lot of the concepts have direct equivalents in maya's fluids (e.g. when he talks about vorticity confinement, that's swirl in maya :) ).

Robert Bridson's Fluid Notes (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/%7Erbridson/fluidsimulation/fluids_notes.pdf)

You could of course also go directly to the source (Jos Stam):

Jos Stam's Real Time Fluids paper (http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/GDC03.pdf)
and
Jos Stam's Stable Fluids paper (http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/ns.pdf)

[Aikiman]

LOL, i love these mathematical papers...I feel really smart when I begin to read them and by the time I get through the first page I realise Im actually quite stupid and wished I did a math/physics degree than an arts one.

(the drawing is quite cool ;) )

im not sure whether you want to get into mel at all but Im still waiting for this book to arrive by Kevin Mannens and co, looks like a really good read.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Solutions-Production-Kevin-Mannens/dp/1598220667/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249419589&sr=1-1

Also this one based around mel/particles/rigid bodies in maya is really good. This one is my all time favourite, im hoping Kevins one is even better.
http://www.amazon.com/Scripting-Animators-Kaufmann-Computer-Graphics/dp/0120887932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249419628&sr=1-1

[Remi]

Ok, quick question, do MOST FX TD's use this kind of math on a daily basis? If so, I picked the right area to specialize in. Aikiman, you're a good fluid guy, do you use that crap? Seriously, if so, it just makes me never want to touch fluids. I can't even begin to wrap my simple brain around that stuff, even with his in-depth explanations of the equations. I read one, and forget it by the time I get to the next. How is this practically used in a FX guy/gal day? Thanks for the link, made me feel like a tool:D

[Aikiman]

Ok, quick question, do MOST FX TD's use this kind of math on a daily basis? If so, I picked the right area to specialize in. Aikiman, you're a good fluid guy, do you use that crap? Seriously, if so, it just makes me never want to touch fluids. I can't even begin to wrap my simple brain around that stuff, even with his in-depth explanations of the equations. I read one, and forget it by the time I get to the next. How is this practically used in a FX guy/gal day? Thanks for the link, made me feel like a tool:D


Hi Remi,
Me personally nope, you dont need to know all that math unless you are developing your own solver and for ppl like you and me, we let others do all that for us so we can have the fun creating stuff.
Like AndersEgleus said, if you can wade through all that and just read the modus operandi, ie what they observe and want to achieve, then it is useful and helpful, but you dont need to know the math.

[Remi]

So a "read between the complex equations" type of deal then huh?:) I need to learn more about that stuff, you guys make it look so damn easy!!! I look at your stuff and few others and it's ultra inspiring and super cool, but everytime I create a fluid container I just look at it for a bit and open an animation i've been meaning to finish and work on that:D

[AndersEgleus]

LOL, i love these mathematical papers...I feel really smart when I begin to read them and by the time I get through the first page I realise Im actually quite stupid and wished I did a math/physics degree than an arts one.
Yeah, but it's kind of like, if you hang out with brain surgeons long enough, you will inevitably improve your social skills :)

[Aikiman]

So a "read between the complex equations" type of deal then huh?:) I need to learn more about that stuff, you guys make it look so damn easy!!! I look at your stuff and few others and it's ultra inspiring and super cool, but everytime I create a fluid container I just look at it for a bit and open an animation i've been meaning to finish and work on that:D

LOL, I must admit Ive been looking at fluids for a while now and I still only know 50% im sure of it. You have to treat it like a journey rather than trying to get to the end as fast as possible.

[cgbeige]

If you want to learn Realflow, there is a good Gnomon DVD called Introduction to Sculpting Fluid Dynamics (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/353/)

This is good because it's a more practical approach and gets very good results. But you need Realflow (there's a demo available).

[Sybexmed]

Aikiman, did the book arrive? Can you give us a little insight on what it contains? I'm also considering both books you listed, and i've heard good things about the second one. But im still wondering if i should even consider MEL and not python.

LOL, i love these mathematical papers...I feel really smart when I begin to read them and by the time I get through the first page I realise Im actually quite stupid and wished I did a math/physics degree than an arts one.

(the drawing is quite cool ;) )

im not sure whether you want to get into mel at all but Im still waiting for this book to arrive by Kevin Mannens and co, looks like a really good read.
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Solutions-Production-Kevin-Mannens/dp/1598220667/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249419589&sr=1-1

Also this one based around mel/particles/rigid bodies in maya is really good. This one is my all time favourite, im hoping Kevins one is even better.
http://www.amazon.com/Scripting-Animators-Kaufmann-Computer-Graphics/dp/0120887932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249419628&sr=1-1

[Aikiman]

It left Amazon today so I expect it in a week or 2, cant wait. :) As for the Mel/Python...Im probably not really qualified to comment because I haven't learn't Python. But I would ASSUME mel to be easier to learn since it is Mayas embedded language and that it has a direct relationship with Maya whereas Python doesn't. Although with Python you can do a lot more things like create plugins which involves a whole new set of rules to learn. I guess it depends on what field you want to throw yourself in to. If you want to work with Maya's particles or creating scripts then id go mel first then python later. Or if you want to get straight into building plugins and software development then you could probably jump into Python and pick up mel along the way.
Perhaps somebody else could offer better advice.

[Cheesestraws]

Well if you are going to be doing expressions you can't use python directly so you will need to learn MEL.

[Sybexmed]

Thank's for the advice guys. I don't plan on doing any plug ins anytime soon, but i would like to work with particle expressions to speed up my work flow and perhaps some RSL. I've been looking all over the net to find help with per particle attributes to no avail. And i've always wondered were people learn these expressions. Those books seem like a good start for a newbie like myself.

[Wick3dParticle]

Hey Ruben,

I think that a lot of it comes with experience. When you work with different people, you pick up new tricks here and there. Then after you understand those new tricks, you can turn those in to new ideas and so on. Now if you are a student, ask your teachers questions, post questions on cg talk, or just try and figure things out.

I never had a book that taught me expressions, but I did learn mel from a book. I also learned a lot of mel on the job.

I see you live in N. Hollywood. Ever consider taking a class at gnomon?
I teach the dynamics 2 class there, and we get our hands dirty in expressions.

But in any case, if you have something you are trying to achieve... post it here, you will find help here.

Good Luck,

~Ilan

[Pyrokinesis]

I have a large library of books on mel, python, math, ect... but I find myself referencing the docs more than any of them. If you are serious then I highly recommend reading the docs on particles and expressions.

The best sources for expressions and particles specifically? I would recommend some videos, and not so much the books.

Adrian Grahams Videos:
Exploring Particles
Advanced Particle Instancing

Tom Kluyskens:
Flow Workflows

Gnomon:
Gnomon expressions I & II
Gnomon Dynamics 1-14
Gnomon Outer Space was ok... underwater... not so much
Gnomonology:
A bunch here just have a look around

[Aikiman]

Hi Shaun,

Nice to see you back :) Long time no see! You must be busy at weta...?!

I noticed you mentioned Tom Kluyskens:Flow Workflows I dont think I have this one, do you know where I can get it from?

Cheers Jeremy

[Pyrokinesis]

Hey mate,
We are finishing up on Avatar so its getting really busy. Unfortunately Flow Workflow and most of the others I mentioned can be notoriously hard to find, as most of them are no longer being sold. But if you are determined enough you should be able to find them floating around. ebay, trade me, craigs list ect...

Are you doing any Python these days?

[Crovex]

If you are looking for a proper in depth grasp of a good example of a solver and the different components that make up the solver (and the mathematical equations required for it). Why not have a look at the Houdini 10 pyrosolver.

Houdini's solvers are completely open, and yes, they might look a bit overwhelming at first, but if you follow along with a paper on stable fluids, attributes/fields/galculations are named in the same way as most papers.

Vortex confinement is named vortex confinement, rather than "swirl". Personally I only got a bit into Maya's fluids and only really started to understand them in much greater depth in Houdini as it is not a black box. There are some great solvers to learn from, you can build your own using a few microsolvers doing just smoke. Working all the way through to proper fire.

But just as much adding your own custom fields and calculations, breaking the rules and getting cool results.

There are some great Masterclasses available online:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1496&Itemid=132
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1284&Itemid=132
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1524&Itemid=132

More advanced:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1422&Itemid=132

Again, I do not recommend this as a first venture into Houdini. This is fairly advanced stuff. But I do recommend it to people who have a good grasp of Maya fluids and are a bit fed up with the limitation of the "black box" or to people who want to step by step understand fluids. Take that paper on stable fluids besides the pyrosolver and you will see all the terms come back.

It opened up a huge amount of possibilities for myself in terms of possible fx once I extended my "toolset" with all the microsolvers in houdini.

But it is a commitment, the presets from the shelf will give you some results quickly, but fully understanding the internals will probably take months.

Also houdini fluids at the moment are a "hot" topic, so there is a lot of information being shared about them on the odforce and sidefx forums.

Enjoy the learning experience and experiment and play with it, I find that keeps it fun when the maths make it a bit dry at times.

[Sybexmed]

Hey Ilan,

I just moved from N Hollywood back to San Fransisco. I was actually attending the Gnomon Maya fast track. Really good program to get up to speed. I have thought about going back and taking some extra courses, mainly on particles so i might take you up on your offer. But i think the more convinient for me right now is online courses. I was looking into these courses but they don't have to much reputation but the course outline looks pretty good.

http://www.td-college.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=65

I have been told that most people learn mel on the job, but how much does one have to know in order to get the job? I guess that's a question ive had in the back of my mind for quite sometime.


Hey Ruben,

I think that a lot of it comes with experience. When you work with different people, you pick up new tricks here and there. Then after you understand those new tricks, you can turn those in to new ideas and so on. Now if you are a student, ask your teachers questions, post questions on cg talk, or just try and figure things out.

I never had a book that taught me expressions, but I did learn mel from a book. I also learned a lot of mel on the job.

I see you live in N. Hollywood. Ever consider taking a class at gnomon?
I teach the dynamics 2 class there, and we get our hands dirty in expressions.

But in any case, if you have something you are trying to achieve... post it here, you will find help here.

Good Luck,

~Ilan

[Aikiman]

Hey mate,
We are finishing up on Avatar so its getting really busy. Unfortunately Flow Workflow and most of the others I mentioned can be notoriously hard to find, as most of them are no longer being sold. But if you are determined enough you should be able to find them floating around. ebay, trade me, craigs list ect...

Are you doing any Python these days?

Na, Python is something I have been putting on the back burner for a while, I guess I should start doing something about it, thanks for the reminder ;)

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