Free Normals pass-based 3d re-lighting plugin for After Effects

[A.C. Farley]

Wow,

That's very nice. Thanks for the links and info. Very, very cool.

-Craig

[dieGolum]

wow! exellent plugin, RPF_Savers are a incredible way to postproduce animation.

It is good to begin August with this great gift.:applause:

Thank you Juanxer.

Diego

[WHD]

Thanks Juan,

Very Nice. I had seen this plug-in a while back and had emailed him about a Mac version. At the time it was not going to happen. How cool that not only is it Mac compatible now but also has a set of really great new features.

Thanks for the heads up.

Bill

[klingspor]

Cheers guys, it's nice to hear Normality works well with EAIS, a software I have not had a chance to test it with.

Good to know my work is appreciated!

[arketype]

Cheers guys, it's nice to hear Normality works well with EAIS, a software I have not had a chance to test it with.

Good to know my work is appreciated!

Hi Stephan-
Thanks for creating the great plug for AE and for joining us here in the EIAS forum!
normality is VERY cool!

Dave ;)

[dieGolum]

HI,

I have not been successful exporting normals via .RPF to After Effect

Z.Buffer .RPF works OK, but Normal .RPF I do not see anything in AE and Normality Plugin has no effects over the exported Normals.

has somebody tested it successfully?

Cheers

Diego

[juanxer]

Let's see...

OK. Make sure you checked the Normals box in the RPF_Saver's dialog window and render your scene. To extract that channel in AE you apply the 3D Channel Extract plugin (in the "3D" plugin submenu) to the RPF footage and select Surface Normals in its Select Channel menu. You ought to see then a colour-freaky image in the preview window :).

Now you can apply the Normality 3 plugin to, say, a white Solid, and select the filtered RPF footage layer as its Normal map source (you could turn the RPF's visibility off, as it is there just to feed its info). You won't see anything yet until you add an AE 3D light to the scene.

(it seems one has to play a bit with the way the plugin interprets the Normals' RGB values to get a reasonable result? If I don't invert X and Y values the image turns a bit X-Ray-like)

[juanxer]

Good to know my work is appreciated!
Glad to see you here, sir. Yours is a jewel of a plugin. :bowdown: :)

[klingspor]

Now you can apply the Normality 3 plugin to, say, a white Solid, and select the filtered RPF footage layer as its Normal map source (you would turn the RPF's visibility off, as it is there just to feed its info). You won't see anything yet until you add an AE 3D light to the scene.That's good advice.

Note that you can also apply Normality directly to your normal map if you prefer. It helps keep your comps cleaner in my experience.

(it seems one has to play a bit with the way the plugin interprets the Normals' RGB values to get a reasonable result? If I don't invert X and Y values the image turns a bit X-Ray-like)True. There are many different types of normal maps (camera-space, object-space, world-space etc.) and there really is no defined standard as to the color encoding so it's up to the user to come up with a solution that works for him.

I didn't want to restrict the plug-in's use to a specific format, so you might have to place lights outside your canvas or generally in odd places to achieve a certain effect.

It really never bothered me enough to implement a workaround :p

[juanxer]

Thanks for the advice. I guess we could ask the EIAS gang for their implementation's details.

[klingspor]

Thanks for the advice. I guess we could ask the EIAS gang for their implementation's details.Just post a shot of a normal map rendered in EIAS and it should be quite easy to tell.

[juanxer]

OK. Teapot attack!!! http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=144938&stc=1

[klingspor]

OK... eh... that doesn't look right at all. I'd be surprised if you got any useful results with Normality using that map.

It should look much more even, like the one I attached. It's hard to say whether it's a problem with the map itself or just the way AE interprets the RPF files. Personally I try to stay away from RPF format because I never got good results.

Does EIAS offer any settings to customize the normal pass generation, perhaps rendering to a simple TGA or TIFF?

[juanxer]

No extra control or separate Normals pass in EIAS :sad: .

The thing is, I was able to test a demo of some other plugin similar to yours a few months ago, using RPFs, and it worked quite OK, BUT it was with both an older version of AE and of EIAS (EIAS 7, AE CS3).

I'll see if I can check both of those's output. It could be that EIAS 8's RPF shader is broken, or an AE CS4 issue.

[juanxer]

I've tried using those apps' old versions. The results, from AE's viewer's POV, are the same. That said, your plugin, with its default settings, produces an image which, although X-ray-ish, seems fairly reasonable (good gradients instead of choppy banding and so as that naked Normals image would suggest). Please take a look at the attached pic.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=144941&stc=1

Does anyone have some way to see an RPF's Normal pass in an app other than AE?

[klingspor]

What happens if you invert the Z-channel (Blue) in Normality?

Also, maybe try with a point light. The spot-lights are a bit finicky.

[juanxer]

Here you are: light changed to Spot, inverting each channel separately. The result seems more correct when inverting the Y=Green Channel, although as soon as I move the light along the vertical axis things get a bit inverse to expectations.

I could send you this small AE7 (CS3) project and files for you to take a look.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=144943&stc=1

[dieGolum]

After some tests, it seems that EIAS does not export normal pass.

Juanxer: this effect like x-ray happens with any image to which you apply Normality to it + an AE light.

I have not found any Normal Pass reference in the EIAS manuals, maybe it is a future feature?

[juanxer]

Well, it is mentioned in page 339 of the manual, and in the very RPF_Saver shader options dialog window. It wouldn't make sense to have a Normal checkbox in it if it wouldn't be able to produce such a channel. Plus AE is actually extracting something there, even if it is that weird image. :curious:

I think I'll post a question at the EIAS forum and see what they say about the subject, so that we get to know for sure.

[juanxer]

I've posted the question here: http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/forums/viewthread/1146/
Let's see what they say. :shrug:

(sorry for the mess. Let's hope we get somewhere with this. And many thanks to Stefan for willing to help us here)

[WHD]

Hi All,

Don't we still have the Normals Shader? I used to use that all the time for generating Normals Maps in EIAS. I'll have to check to see if it is still there. I'm rendering now so I can't test this at this moment.

Bill

PS... Stefan thanks for the Mac Port! Can't wait to use your plug in.

[dieGolum]

HI Bill, it works!

I have tried Normal shader as camera mapping in luminance channel without lights, and it work very ok, just invert the blue z, :thumbsup:

I think it render slower than .rpf

thank you

Diego

[WHD]

Hey All,

I still have the shader in EIAS 8. I may have dragged it in from 7 .

Bill

file:///Users/g5/Desktop/CG_EXPLOSIONS/NORMALSPHERE_3.jpg

[juanxer]

ARGH, you are right!!! :D :D :D (Where did it come from? Was it from EIAS or from some generous EI shaders developer?)

[WHD]

Hi Juan,

I think it was an EI original. We have so many new things that sometimes it is difficult to remember what we have had all along.

Bill

[3dData]

I can see the normal map in the .rpf file from EI but I can't add the Normality Filter in AE, I get a "Invalid Filter" error message.

[klingspor]

I can see the normal map in the .rpf file from EI but I can't add the Normality Filter in AE, I get a "Invalid Filter" error message.Windows or Mac?

On Windows make sure to install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Runtime library (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=a5c84275-3b97-4ab7-a40d-3802b2af5fc2&displaylang=en).

On the Mac I can't be of much assistance.

[juanxer]

At EI's forum thread, Edgard says he's getting perfect normals from his .RPF output, plus very good results with Normality 3 (EIAS 8, AE CS4, Mac with Leopard). He's got pics to prove it: http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/forums/viewreply/6877/

Could anyone else give it a try too? I am beginning to suspect something is wrong with my EIAS and AE setup, so probably I'll have to reinstall and test again.

On the other hand, using that old Normals shader works perfectly, anyway :thumbsup: .

(No response from EI yet: perhaps the guys are on vacation)

[klingspor]

I think it would have been really helpful had ednumber0 on the EI board posted a shot of his actual normal pass... I'm quite curious because in his images there's definitely a little more going on than just Normality on a normal pass. :curious:

[3dData]

This is what I get. I don't have AE CS4, so perhaps there is a problem with AE CS3.

http://www.blasscom.com/Picture1.png

[klingspor]

This is what I get. I'll don't have AE CS4, so perhaps there is a problem with AE CS3.

http://www.blasscom.com/Picture1.pngThat looks fine. You'll want to invert the X (Red) channel in Normality though.

It would be interesting to know why it works for some and not for others. Unfortunately I probably won't be of much help as it's clearly not a problem with Normality.
You guys will have to continue investigation on your own, but I will definitely follow the discussion and see if I can help out.

[3dData]

Unfortunately until I figure out why I get the "Invalid Filter" error in AE CS3 when I try to add Normality I can't proceed.

[3dData]

I just realized that the plugin is for MacPro (Intel). That would explain why it doesn't work on a G5. I can try it on a MacPro later in the week.

[juanxer]

Definitely it must be something in my setup, seeing how you are getting good results :curious: .

[ediris]

I think it would have been really helpful had ednumber0 on the EI board posted a shot of his actual normal pass... I'm quite curious because in his images there's definitely a little more going on than just Normality on a normal pass. :curious:

Yes Stefan, I dont have a shot of my normal pass since i didnt render on separate passes,that is the beauty of RPF less space in your hard drive.
My render had GI and blur reflections so and the exposure of the render is control via NORMALITY i maybe abused too much of it.
But as i said applying a Normal shader will resolve the problem.No need to save as RPF.

Edgard

[juanxer]

Could you at least take a snapshot of what After Effects shows when you apply the 3D Channel Extract filter to the RPF file to obtain the normals? It is there where I get that crazily coloured image instead of the smoothly gradiented one I should be seeing.

[ediris]

Sorry to say but Animator RPF_s is broken.I just did a render in C4D to see if i was wrong or but there seems to be something on the EIAS rpf.
I did the render from EIAS and it had the same colors than your render.
I did other with C4D,save as RPF and it worked fine.
Another day of drama for EIAS.
I am out of here.
Edgard

[klingspor]

OK, now I'm really confused. :shrug:

[ediris]

OK, now I'm really confused. :shrug:
Dont worry Stefan
I did some tests later, Normals doesnt seem to show in EIAS, if you extract the Normals info using AE it will show Juanxer image, in anycase applying Normals shader inside EIAS does resolve the issue i guess is a problem on the RPF_saver in EIAS.Not sure about it.
I tried it in C4D and the RPF works nicely, these plug is fun to use, as you dont have to animate the lights inside a 3d software.
I like also the rim light which creates very interesting effects.
I have work a bit in EIAS rendering with a Normal shader within Animator, it seems that the plug in uses the red blue and green colours but i am not sure if i got the results i want EIAS and Normality.
Here some more examples
Thanks,Edgard

[juanxer]

So Normals by RPF is broken (since first introduced, it seems), but Normals by using the old Normal Shader applied as a camera map works OK. Another great day in the EIAS universe :D.

Stefan, thank you so much for your stupendous plugin and for assisting us with diagnosing these issues. :)

[klingspor]

No worries! I'm glad you've all figured out a way to deal with rendering the normals, even if it isn't ideal.


Oh, and congrats to ediris for 1.000 posts :applause:

[dieGolum]

Hi,

I enjoyed a lot playing with Normality3, this has changed my concept of postproduction, I think a marvel to Mographers, and animation works,


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/diegolum33/Original.jpg

Original render from EIAS

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/diegolum33/NormalMap.jpg

Normal_Shader

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/diegolum33/Normality3test.jpg
EIAS8, AECS3, IntelMac.


Thank you very much to StefanMinning, for this plugin,

Stefan: Is it possible to create an effect like Oclussion from the normal map data? that would be wonderful and save tons of time to render.

thank you Juanxer too for find this treasure.

Cheers

Diego

[klingspor]

Diego, very cool renders of the head! Would it be OK for me to show them on my website? I am always looking for interesting samples of Normality in use!

To answer your question: While the plug-in cannot generate true ambient occlusion simply due to the lack of information about occluding surfaces, I've found that using the "Gradient" function in Normality can help to achieve a similiar effect in many cases.

[dieGolum]

Hi Stefan,

I am glad you want to use these renders on your site, will send them by email.


To answer your question: While the plug-in cannot generate true ambient occlusion simply due to the lack of information about occluding surfaces, I've found that using the "Gradient" function in Normality can help to achieve a similiar effect in many cases.

I will test the gradient in a architectural project, I have done some tests and when enable gradient, lights are invert in x axis.

Diego

[3dData]

Diego,

Very nice results!

What versions of EI and AE are you using? And are you on a Mac or PC?

[dieGolum]

Diego,

Very nice results!

What versions of EI and AE are you using? And are you on a Mac or PC?

Hi,

EIAS 8, Normal pass via Normal Shader, I have not had success using. RPF. files:hmm:

AE CS3 + Normality3 plugin + IntelMac,

In AE I have mulitiplied normalpass layer over the original render layer. I played with 3 lights, Specular, Rim Light, Reflection, and invert Z option.

[3dData]

Diego,

It works fine for me using the Normals shader. :)

Thanks for sharing your configuration.

This AE plugin sure opens a lot of options. Being able to animate lighting after a render is a real time saver.

[Danford]

This plug in doesn't work on a PPC Mac in AE CS3. It looks great though, and just what I was looking for for a project I have coming up. Without this plugin, is there anything else I can do in AE with a normals map? maybe apply another effect?

[dieGolum]

Hi,

Here is a link that sent me Tomas, it works in the same line but with UV pass, I have no idea if that can work wiht EIAS .RPF UV pass.

http://maltaannon.com/articles/afte...ts/youveelizer/ (http://maltaannon.com/articles/after-effects/youveelizer/%22%5Dhttp://maltaannon.com/articles/after-effects/youveelizer/)

There is a video tutorial with some examples.


Diego

[AVTPro]

took a character out of an DVD for cloth sculpting in zBrush and brought it into EI.

It's amazing how normal maps fools the light into depicting sculpted geometry.

There's no Encage. Just that low poly topology.

These Normal maps are from the UV, maybe that won't work? the normal should be from the camera view?

This character also has an occlusion pass map.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/Jabez_03/NormalCA.jpg

[AVTPro]

Hi Juan,

I think it was an EI original. We have so many new things that sometimes it is difficult to remember what we have had all along.

Bill

Bill can we get a URL or upload on that shader?

And EI can do a better job announcing new/old feature as well. There was a morph tool that I and no idea it existed.

[klingspor]

These Normal maps are from the UV, maybe that won't work? the normal should be from the camera view?If you render a normal pass then it will include any normals adjusted via bump- or normal maps, so all that detail will show up in Normality as well.

[ReginaldThomasJr]

Bill can we get a URL or upload on that shader?

And EI can do a better job announcing new/old feature as well. There was a morph tool that I and no idea it existed.


Never mind.

[dieGolum]

If you render a normal pass then it will include any normals adjusted via bump- or normal maps, so all that detail will show up in Normality as well.

Sorry but It seems that EIAS 8 Normals_Shader it is not sensitive to bumps or dispacements maps:D,

someone else can do some tests to confirm this?

too good to be true:sad:

Diego

[arketype]

Bill can we get a URL or upload on that shader?

The normals shader was originally just an example shader included with the 6.6 Developer's kit. I am not surprised that all features (bumps, etc.) are not supported. Perhaps some enterprising programmer could update the Normals shader with these other features ;)

There is a download for the developer's kit on EITG's site here.

http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/downloads/updates/eias/66/PluginKit66.zip

Dig around and you will find the Normals shader for both Mac and Windows in there ;)

Dave

[bbuxton]

I remember using this shader before- hoping at some point in the future that camera would be able to render in uv space for texture/light baking. It doesn't seem to work in v8 (intel mac)

[Danford]

Actually, the normals shader comes as an "experimental feature" in EIAS 5.5. I don't remember downloading any SDK, so just a regular download I guess. It seems to output proper normal maps, though. EIAS has been performing as little more than crippleware for me recently so I am really excited about having a new feature, such a useful one really, to play with.

[AVTPro]

Dig around and you will find the Normals shader for both Mac and Windows in there ;)

Dave


Thanks Dave. Did just that and lookie here :)

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/Jabez_03/Normal.jpg

I put the shader on the body only. It is a UV normal map from ZB and the EI normal shader.

[gdogfunk]

This is very cool stuff! Now, how can it be applied to animation? Is this to say you can light your scene in AE and if you animate the light, the results are seen? Man, I need to get back to more 3D and away from Flash.....

Ryan

[dieGolum]

This is very cool stuff! Now, how can it be applied to animation? Is this to say you can light your scene in AE and if you animate the light, the results are seen? Man, I need to get back to more 3D and away from Flash.....

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

You can animate, all lights parameters and also Normality3 parameters, that means endless posibilities.:)

The only limitation actually can be find in EIAS Normals output:

1_EIAS 8 .rpf normal Saver output seems that is not working at all.( I really hope that it's just a use error)

2_Normals_Shaders, can output the poligons normals, but not the bumps or displacements normals.

I hope that when EIAS people come back from their hollidays their can tell us what happens with .rpf_savers

Cheers

Diego

[juanxer]

I tested EIAS 7.x' RPF output, also: its normals fail there, too.

[AVTPro]

http://www.digitaltutors.com/09/training.php?cid=2&pid=154


Just thought this may be interest On Topic.

[ediris]

I tested EIAS 7.x' RPF output, also: its normals fail there, too.
Juan i will recommend not using automatic RPF to work with Normality. I will just use the Normal Shader or Camera Map Normals as i did render out from C4D and it work nice but is not too recommended to do so,it will be able to apply the Normality but they recommend to do it by hand. Just go to the link if you want to do it by hand.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=795015&highlight=Normality
Thanks,Edgard.

[dieGolum]

Hola,

This is a great tutorial about Normality use. thank you to videocopilot.net and Minning.de :)

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/scene_re-lighting/

Cheers

Diego

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