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View Full Version : the Holy Grail of learning system. Amaaaazing


bjoern
08-02-2009, 01:58 PM
first of all, Digital tutors makes for me in generell to much Beginner Training.
I normaly prefer gnomonworkshop or FXPHD.

But the System that DT build is just perfect. If there manage to get real Pros from the industrie that making the training... they have no more competition.... the Clip and note-feature is just a dream!!
http://www.digitaltutors.com/digital_tutors/comingsoon.php

I hope other Trainingcompanys going for a similar system!

INFINITE
08-02-2009, 02:06 PM
Wow that does look very cool. Thanks for the heads up. :)

cresshead
08-02-2009, 03:10 PM
yeah looks like they're copying lynda.com and 3dbuzz.com

i'm a big fan of digital tutors e-download versions as i can watch them on the way to work commuting with my netbook but if they drop [looks like they have] the e-downloads then
i'll look at gnmon's e-downloads offerings as i like to be able to watch offline without a internet connection..a netbook on a bus/train means NO internet so NO new digital tutors access if they only go wifi/net.

btw lynda.com also STILL offer a disc version if you want one.

on the upside having access to all of the library when back at home is good and just like lynda.com and 3dbuzz.com for a subscription 'fee'

not sure of the cost per month but this seems to created for studio's and educational establishments more then the 3d guy at home trying to learn which is a shame really.
Whilst offering ALL the lib is good most don't want/need to learn every 3d app just 1 or maybe 2 so i don't know in the end this looks like they've done it for anti piracy/large establishments more than helping joe bloggs in the steet.

as it's yet to launch so we don't know all the details so it may work out okay..i'm not 'excited' more like ohh drat there go's my training at digital tutors in future...now where?

if i stick and go with the tied to a net connection route, then my way of learning will have to change and be more restictive in when/where i can watch/learn but could expand in 'what' i learn.

50/50 in the end..half good half bad.

soulburn3d
08-02-2009, 06:36 PM
What they're doing looks cool, but geez, that video is just annoying. It takes them 2 minutes of meaningless buzzwords before they even start telling you the new stuff about their system. That 9 min vid could probably be condensed into about 60 seconds of actual content.

Sorry, rant mode off.

- Neil

Seraca
08-02-2009, 07:17 PM
This Does Look Pretty Cool:thumbsup:

Cheesestraws
08-02-2009, 07:57 PM
Maybe they will do more than just read the manual and teach old techniques in their technical training finally.

cheebamonkey
08-02-2009, 09:29 PM
wow.. DT is finally catching up to the rest of the eLearning community. I'm glad to see they hired some people to help move their catalog to an online platform.

I'm curious about the cost per month and the ability to view clips or content offline (ipod/iphone/PC with no connectivity)

cresshead
08-02-2009, 09:44 PM
there's no ability to view anything offline..the clips feature is a bookmarking user based feature of the video held on their servers..nothing is downloadable at all..you simply store
in and out points from a clip within your account settings on their servers.

to use the training you have to be connected to the net 100% and a good connection speed will be a requirement otherwise you'll geto jumpy videos or will need to wait for each segment to cache up.

if your current internet connection can support 3dbuzz or lynda.com training then yo should be fine with Digital Tutors new delivery mechanic.

Szos
08-02-2009, 10:43 PM
Why do I not really see this as anything "groundbreaking"?

So they are streaming their videos instead of having physical discs. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo. Now you ALWAYS need an internet connection, and you'll have another monthly bill along with every other company on the planet moving to a monthly billing cycle that somehow justifies it as a good thing.
Some would call that progress. I don't.

JDex
08-02-2009, 10:58 PM
Why do I not really see this as anything "groundbreaking"?

So they are streaming their videos instead of having physical discs. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo. Now you ALWAYS need an internet connection, and you'll have another monthly bill along with every other company on the planet moving to a monthly billing cycle that somehow justifies it as a good thing.
Some would call that progress. I don't.
Agreed.

:banghead:

Seraca
08-03-2009, 12:48 AM
So they are streaming their videos instead of having physical discs. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo. Now you ALWAYS need an internet connection, and you'll have another monthly bill along with every other company on the planet moving to a monthly billing cycle that somehow justifies it as a good thing.
Some would call that progress. I don't.


Well their holistic "Feel the Love" employee testimonials aside, it does seem well implemented if not truly Ground breaking.
We are entering the age of online digital Distribution.. it's inevitable
Me personally I have not paid for internet access since 2006. I just use Public Wif-i and my laptop.
I have not owned a TV since 2005
a 24 in monitor attached to my laptops
is enough of a screen for me personally
I use itunes to to D/L national& international news, free of course.
and use the HULU TV desktop app for my sci fi TV shows & anime.
and on those occasion where I can get to
a wi-fi spot I unplug & reconnect to the physical world.




Cheers.

rock
08-03-2009, 12:50 AM
This is not yet the holy grail of learning. In the future, learning companies will begin shipping injections - such as "How to model, texture and render a bicycle" special fluid that can the learner can then inject or drink. The knowlege drink, like in the Matrix movies.

TopherMartini
08-03-2009, 01:26 AM
There's something comforting about having a physical product for those rainy day situations.

When you make an investment in online-only learning assets there is always the possibility that the service will be unavailable temporarily or the plug gets pulled permanently.

Giving customers the option between discs and an online portal would be awesome, but would hate to see them ditch physical products all together to accelerate the adoption of an eLearning portal. People learn in all different ways so companies with diverse pedagogy are likely to be the real winners…

Will be eagerly awaiting August 4th to see what happens :thumbsup:

Lone Deranger
08-03-2009, 02:36 AM
I'm not buying the whole "holy grail" nextgen learning thing either. Instead, what I think brought on this move towards an online-only system is their fight against illegal file sharing.
But I fear this will be just another example of how anti piracy attempts will hinder legit customers more than it will the pirates.

*edited*

Intervain
08-03-2009, 02:59 AM
What they're doing looks cool, but geez, that video is just annoying. It takes them 2 minutes of meaningless buzzwords before they even start telling you the new stuff about their system. That 9 min vid could probably be condensed into about 60 seconds of actual content.

Sorry, rant mode off.

- Neil

QFA - after less than a minute I wanted to turned it off - I don't' care about their annoying interviews, just show the thing.
I admit the tagging on the time line is a neat feature... notes - hmm usually I'd just try something and remember it instantly so I don't need that at all... it's not a theoretical course like phylosophy or history...

DizzyJ
08-03-2009, 03:07 AM
The part of this that appealed to me was the access to anything—I jump around a lot in my personal learning. That could be a really useful feature for learning the basics. If the price is right, I'll be excited.

However, the "Holy Grail of Learning Systems" to me will be a top-notch teacher with time for one-on-one instruction. No video will ever perfectly match my level of skills, particularly with self-learning, which inevitably produces holes in ones learning. FxPhd does a pretty good job at coming close to the ideal, with solid instructors providing good training videos which are backed up by critiques and teacher forum participation. Their prices are outstanding for the quality. If they were more focused on what I want to learn, I'd be a constant subscriber.

Seraca
08-03-2009, 03:38 AM
But I fear this will be just another example of how anti piracy attempts will hinder legit customers more than it will the pirates.


Well Digital Distribution is here to stay so we will see many
similar schemes I imagine.



Cheers

Lone Deranger
08-03-2009, 03:51 AM
Seraca,

Indeed. I loathe piracy and certainly don't intentionally advocate it in any way shape or form. Reading back on it, I can see how my comment may be misconstrued though.

Post edited.

talos72
08-03-2009, 06:28 AM
I think DT is doing the smart thing. In near future good part of learning and tutoring will be online. Frankly not having to haul around discs would be great, while having access to the entire library. That's worth it...especially if they keep things up to date regularly. Video playlists and clips highlights...that's very nice!

Frankly I wish Gnomon would put their premium DVDs online, I would be even willing to pay slightly higher monthly fee. And I do have a bunch of their DVDs, but they could really do well making their whole library available for a subscription.

The4thAggie
08-03-2009, 07:17 AM
For a newbie like myself, I like DT's videos (where I find Gnomon awesome but advanced). I like the idea of a monthly subscription service, but (as a hobbyist) I can't afford too much to add to my monthly subscriptions. It sounds too good to be less than $30/month for even a restricted access subscription.

Geta-Ve
08-03-2009, 07:28 AM
Depending on their yearly price I may actually sign up. I like the idea of having access to EVERYTHING. Like another user said, I jump around a LOT while learning so this would be of great benefit to me.

Fede
08-03-2009, 07:55 AM
I'd much rather have access to DVDs. Unfortunately some of us pleb countries don't really have access to uncapped broadband, if you do it's exorbitantly expensive for a private user. So streaming of video is a really expensive scenario as I need to pay for the service of the tutorials as well as the ISP bill.

I subscribed to CMI VFX which does a similar thing and it's really not ideal for me....

If people really want to pirate it they can always screen capture the stuff or possibly catch the streams.

Moon-Dog
08-03-2009, 08:37 AM
The move is certainly welcomed, as long as the subscription is reasonable enough. Frankly, video tutorials is one area where I'm absolutely not bothered whether I got a physical disk or not, cause' most of the time, I'd be watching them on the computer anyways and I might as well stay connected to the net. Also, I'm not much of a 'go through the entire series' person as well. Just watch something that's relevant and jump around a lot.

Ben-Davis
08-03-2009, 12:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge they haven't actually said they're going to drop the physical discs, or the direct download, instead they are just adding another platform to their site. Surely it's going to be similar to Lynda.com, whereby you can subscribe and have access to all the content or just buy individual titles. I think this will be great for absolute beginners who are just starting out and want to learn as much as they can, without having to individually buy each title. But for they more experienced artists, I doubt this will have much use, as I'm sure that if they needed any training from DT, it would only be one or two of their products, not their entire catalog.

DT's audience, in my opinion, has always been the beginners, and adding this online service is going to really going to benefit that particular audience. I owe a lot of my knowledge to DT and if they had this online platform when I first started out, I reckon I would have saved a fair amount of money.

derMarkus
08-03-2009, 01:14 PM
From a mail i received from DT:

Just a Reminder:
Today is the final day to purchase discs and e-downloads. Any e-downloads that you purchase will be accessible through your Digital-Tutors store account for 30 days after date of purchase as is stated in our current policy.

DuttyFoot
08-03-2009, 02:29 PM
Today is the final day to purchase

I would be really upset if they stopped selling discs.

Remi
08-03-2009, 05:46 PM
What I really want to know is this.....is it ORGANIC?:D

Bullit
08-03-2009, 05:51 PM
If the people(the market) wants discs there will be discs, since there is a big increase in knowledge available for free in personnel webpages. If DT and others think they can strong arm users forcing them to only get it online they will learn sooner or later they will loose.

Seraca
08-03-2009, 08:55 PM
If the people(the market) wants discs there will be discs, since there is a big increase in knowledge available for free in personnel webpages. If DT and others think they can strong arm users forcing them to only get it online they will learn sooner or later they will loose.

Look at it from an $$economic$$$ perspective
the cost of producing a physical product
to ship is ongoing( mastering Discs, mass producing copies, color printing of coversand buying the blank Disc media& plastic cases, physical storage , rent,electricity and as a retailer you pay takes on your "inventory" in some cases, and of course Labor costs!.)

Digital Distribution there is the one time setup cost of getting the content recorded and the servers set up and after that you only rent ,electricity labor costs are for a few IT people, the occasional tutorial instructors for new content and an accountant.
Overall online distribution is more cost efficient for a company.





Cheers

Bullit
08-03-2009, 09:41 PM
Optical media are in way out, i think last time i burned a DVD was more than one year ago, now everything goes via pen or saved in multiple HDD's. So that is not my issue.

My problem is buying and not to have it in HDD or SSD or whatever, i don't want to go to their website everytime i want to re(learn) something. I buy it is mine end of the story . If they want to rent i don't want it.

inguatu
08-04-2009, 12:54 PM
Optical media are in way out, i think last time i burned a DVD was more than one year ago, now everything goes via pen or saved in multiple HDD's. So that is not my issue.

My problem is buying and not to have it in HDD or SSD or whatever, i don't want to go to their website everytime i want to re(learn) something. I buy it is mine end of the story . If they want to rent i don't want it.

I 100% agree. I don't want to have to sit down in front of a computer and log in every single time I want to look at their training. FXPHD and a few other training sites allow you to download the courseware and take it on the go. I applaud DT's efforts, but they're limiting the ability of students to learn when and where they want. For that I'll probably never use them again.

whalerider
08-04-2009, 09:19 PM
Contrary to the thread's title, I don't think it's "the Holy Grail".
first DT needs to show they can do more than just level 101 videos (their Houdini stuff is pretty much straight out of Houdini's help files), then i'd be willing to invest in them.
right now fxphd and 3dbuzz are the best values out there, imho.

DizzyJ
08-04-2009, 09:31 PM
I went to check out 3D Buzz, and when I started typing into the Google window, it auto-filled to "3dbuzz torrent." Since I've never searched for 3d buzz torrent, that must be the most popular Google search for 3dbuzz. I guess that's why DT is doing this. Sad.

The4thAggie
08-05-2009, 01:32 AM
It's been deployed. Heres the pricing info:
http://www.digitaltutors.com/09/pricing.php

Monthly: $45
6-months: $225 (1-month free)(Otherwise $270 = $45x6)
Year: $400 (3-months free plus no-wait access time to new lessons)(Otherwise $540 = $45*12)

Eh...might be within my price range....I guess.

EDIT: Free trial with limited lessons. It seems they got rid of all of their DVD training. *insert obscenity*

EDIT2: What if this business model fails 5 months into a semi or annual pre-paid subscription? Do you get a refund?

Seraca
08-05-2009, 01:45 AM
And the lingering Death of physical media Continues!:applause:

ThE_JacO
08-05-2009, 03:41 AM
Digital Distribution there is the one time setup cost of getting the content recorded and the servers set up and after that you only rent ,electricity labor costs are for a few IT people, the occasional tutorial instructors for new content and an accountant.
Overall online distribution is more cost efficient for a company.
Agreed about digital distribution in general, but in the specific here:
Streaming is -never- more cost efficient than one-off download digital distribution. It's only convenient for the company distributing in terms of prevented loss for the added protection it guarantees aganist casual pirates and saving the money of a copy protection system needed for download schemes.

It's basically a customer loss in all cases non matter which way you look at it.
Since downloading the lessons and building a local cache with the same navigation and interlinking you would get from the online site is trivial, and subscriptions don't prevent that, this is fundamentally a step towards moving tutorials to a pay-per-view scheme, except that with films and sport events pay-per-view makes a ton of sense, for things that by nature you want to re-watch a lot it's an expensive idea.

Abandoning physical suports and shipping makes a ton of sense, abandoning any form of data retention looks very far from the holy grail of education, very inconsiderate of that half of the first world with BW and rate caps, and clearly more of interest to the distributor to me.

cresshead
08-05-2009, 03:51 AM
just playing the free stuff, seems smooth enough, not had a loading glitch as yet.

the price seems a bit high to me..the 6month version hardly saves anything..and the yearly fee is quite abit..more than i've ever spent in a year on training videos i believe.

1 month pass $45
6month pass $225 (works out $37.5 per month)
12month pass $399 (works out $33.25per month)


$399 / 45 is 8.8
so @ $45 you get nearly 9 months, basically you get 3.2months 'free' if you sighn up for year...

Szos
08-05-2009, 04:14 AM
It's not the "per month" cost that is exorbitant, it's the fact that to keep current with their lessons (which presumably they will continue to add more every so often) means that you would have to essentially be a subscriber forever.

OK, maybe not "forever", but instead of picking up one of their new titles when it comes out and that being the end of it, now you are almost tied into this monthly subscription cycle because you might still be going through one lesson when the monthly billing cycle kicks in, or you might be waiting for some new lesson to be posted.


Subscriptions are a big FAIL for customers, and not just in this case... it hides the true cost of a item into more manageable monthly bites, but the long term costs are considerably higher.

rock
08-05-2009, 04:43 AM
If you are slow learner, don't remember well, don't have time to spend, or in live in a place where you have a slow, inconsistent Internet connection and low quotas, I think you will lose out. After six months or a year or whenever your membership expires, you will no longer able to access any more lessons and you may even lose all those notations that you keep which may be useless unless you pay more for another six months. The permanent disk is the better option for you.

DizzyJ
08-05-2009, 05:13 AM
At $45/moth, I could see periodically using this when I have several topics I want to cover and know I'll be able to devote a lot of time to it. But for topics I really want to delve into, I'll pick something I can go back to later on without a subscription.

WillRyan
08-05-2009, 06:23 AM
For the price of 1-2 DVDs I'll gladly pay the price for a 1-month pass if I need to get up to speed in a new program quickly. Access to everything I can devour in a month for $45 is a worthwhile deal I think.

cheebamonkey
08-05-2009, 10:06 AM
Good intentions usually don't match real world though. How much training can your realistically take in within a month for $45 which you'll actually retain? Without screen capturing or brute force ripping apart code, there is no way to archive their training (which is their intent). So you'll have to be a freak of nature and remember this massive amount of training you're taking within a month's time span. I'm not sure if statistics have changed or not but the magic number used to be about 10% for which we retain information while learning something the first time.

As for Digital Tutors, again, good intentions for subscription sites usually get overtaken by reality as well. Realistically, how much "new" training can they churn out per month to make it worth while, if you've already purchased some of their training? As far as I remember, they have little advanced training and they've pretty much covered the basics of a lot of the software out there.

I'm curious how many multi users out there will share the same account :|

I still wish DT good luck, unfortunately I probably won't be buying into their training anymore.

Cheesestraws
08-05-2009, 10:27 AM
Is it just my pc or does the fullscreen option not actually increase the size of the player?

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