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View Full Version : Character tools, c haracter tools, wait, more character tools


Joviex
07-31-2003, 09:53 PM
Um, ok, they walk the crowd at the top of each hour and everyone wants to keep seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ....


or did I hit the time machine button and go back to friday, er saturday, er, sunday, er.....

BeeVee
07-31-2003, 10:13 PM
LightWave 8 isn't due out for another 4-6 months. Perhaps, just perhaps, it isn't completely finished yet? :)

B

PolyMangler
07-31-2003, 10:16 PM
i'm kinda agrivated with the repatition myself but beevee has a point

::puts down pitchfork and torch::

Joviex
07-31-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by BeeVee
LightWave 8 isn't due out for another 4-6 months. Perhaps, just perhaps, it isn't completely finished yet? :)

B

While that is true, there were a lot more things on the feature list they already released other than character tools over and over and over.

TRick
07-31-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by amorano
...over and over and over ....

You are not looking at a 24 hour tutorial/features video here. It's a live show from a booth where lots of people walk by... If you want to show things to as much people as possible it is simply neccessary to do things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ....

Just lots of respect to the people that have to do this job...

yog
07-31-2003, 11:52 PM
I'm not the world's bigest fan of Discreet (the phrase money grabbing suits comes to mind), but they do know how to put on a show.

Every event I have been to were Discreet were demo'ing MAX they had a board at the front listing all the demos they would be doing, every hour a different demo on a different aspect of MAX. You could just jot down the times of the sections you were interested in, go wander the rest of the event and be back in time for the bits your interested.

Mattoo
08-01-2003, 01:17 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they were purposely trying to drum in that LW is now good for character animation, not to us but to the general 3D populace wondering by who believe the common perception that LW is poorly regarded in this field.

They're trying to change that.

I can actually see it working well for them.

I allways find the Max demos at these things to be very specific that only true hardcore Maxers would understand them.... almost as if they're running tutorials rather than demos.

Alias are the true geniusses at these things. With all that very quick dynamics stuff William was doing reminded me very much of the style of an Alias demo that I saw a few years back that got me really interested.
People wondering by don't give a crap about little interface changes and stuff, they want explosions! toilets! exploding toilets!.... you get my drift :)

vangaans
08-01-2003, 02:24 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they were purposely trying to drum in that LW is now good for character animation

If the LW8 character tools live up to expectation they wont be just good, they will be outstanding.:applause:

Joviex
08-01-2003, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by TRick
You are not looking at a 24 hour tutorial/features video here. It's a live show from a booth where lots of people walk by... If you want to show things to as much people as possible it is simply neccessary to do things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ....

Just lots of respect to the people that have to do this job...

Right, but where are the following features listed in the press release, I did not see any of the following ONCE in any demo, and I watched pretty much from 10-6 every day and 10-4 the last day (today):

- New particle system tools
- Auto Character Setup tools
- Simplified render output workflow
- Game exporters
- Animatible UV coords
- Scene auto saving

Not even a mention of any of them. I am sure Game Exportation would be right up there with character tools, since, if you can make the character in LW but not get it out, what is the point? Same thing with new UV tools.

Also, Auto Character setup tools, do they mean just hitting the float menu ik mode button? Or does that fall under the other feature in their list:

- New character setup workflow that avoids going back and forth between modeler and layout

Obviously they showed some excellent new features, but they did ignore half of the feature list they put in the press release.

Triple G
08-01-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by amorano
Right, but where are the following features listed in the press release, I did not see any of the following ONCE in any demo, and I watched pretty much from 10-6 every day and 10-4 the last day (today):

- New particle system tools
- Auto Character Setup tools
- Simplified render output workflow
- Game exporters
- Animatible UV coords
- Scene auto saving

*snip*

- New character setup workflow that avoids going back and forth between modeler and layout


Well, I've only been able to see what was shown yesterday (Wednesday) and JP Wilson and Raf Anzovin demoed The Setup Machine, which they said was "now fully integrated into Layout". Also, Larry was showing the Ortho tools that are now integrated, and was doing some stuff with what looked like a model of The Thing, from the Fantastic Four. As for the rest of the things you mention, I'd love to see some of that too. :)

BeeVee
08-01-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by amorano
While that is true, there were a lot more things on the feature list they already released other than character tools over and over and over.

Yes... perhaps they were things that weren't in a state in which they could be shown? After all, looking at the demos you saw, did it seem that the functions shown were in an early, unfinished state? They didn't seem like it to me. I think that it's better to show the stuff that works, rather than interrupting the demo every five minutes to restart LightWave because some new feature isn't quite there yet.

I'm as excited as the next man over the future of LightWave. It does irritate me though when people (not aimed at you specifically Amorano!) want everything to be finished yesterday and for NewTek to include new functionality for everything in each release. Things will get added, nobody said that development was going to stop at 8.0, there will be free upgrades later that offer yet more functionality, more stability, more workflow improvements. Chill, people...

B

Joviex
08-01-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by BeeVee
I think that it's better to show the stuff that works, rather than interrupting the demo every five minutes to restart LightWave because some new feature isn't quite there yet.


So, I am assuming that was NOT an offical statement by Newtek via a Newtek employee?



I'm as excited as the next man over the future of LightWave. It does irritate me though when people (not aimed at you specifically Amorano!) want everything to be finished yesterday


No offense here :) I am doing the samething. I want to make 100% sure that everything is as it should be before I get my hands on what will hopefully be something wonderful. I am especially interested in what functionality of the new feature set has been exposed to the SDK/API. That is where I usually go first.

Yes, call me crazy.

SplineGod
08-02-2003, 12:52 AM
Much of the tools shown were character oriented. The Ortho tools were the only thing that could be considered character specific since they deal only with bones. The rest like the new IK systems arent necessarily just character tools. Its great to add them to any heirarchy with just a click...no goals or time consuming setup.
IK/FK interchangability on the fly! Lock and unlock on the fly. Dynamics, tension, weight, springiness to bones or heirarchies. What I saw just blew me away. Its going to take me a while to be able to dive into all this :)

Celshader
08-02-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by amorano
Um, ok, they walk the crowd at the top of each hour and everyone wants to keep seeing the same thing over and over...

You didn't watch any of my celshader presentations? :sad:

Well, for what it's worth, Dave Warner has a few of the presentations posted on his site. Maybe he has something you did not yet get a chance to see:
http://www.tv3d.com/Sig03/LW8.htm

*can't wait to upgrade to 8!* :love:

Ikarus
08-02-2003, 01:22 AM
Well, I've only been able to see what was shown yesterday (Wednesday) and JP Wilson and Raf Anzovin demoed The Setup Machine, which they said was "now fully integrated into Layout".

Triple G is that correct, tha they have fully integrated the Setup Machine into layout?

Joviex
08-02-2003, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Celshader
You didn't watch any of my celshader presentations? :sad:

Well, for what it's worth, Dave Warner has a few of the presentations posted on his site. Maybe he has something you did not yet get a chance to see:
http://www.tv3d.com/Sig03/LW8.htm

*can't wait to upgrade to 8!* :love:

Jen, of course I did !! The only thing is, this is not new to LW8, or even LW7 :)

Much appreciated though, as there were a few things bugging me in that besm panel, and you kicked me in gear to work through them.

meatycheesyboy
08-02-2003, 04:37 AM
I didn't catch every presentation every day but I was somewhat confused by a few of them. Perhaps someone could shed some light on a few things concerning Setup Machine for me. In the setup machine presentation the person really touted the fact that it would set up a slider for FK/IK switching. But while showing off the new IK features, William (Proton), said that LW could now do switching on a frame by frame basis natively with no setup. What's the point of the Setup Machine slider thingy if LW already does it automatically? That's just one example. To me the new Ortho features coupled with the new IK features make something like Setup Machine somewhat redundant. Anyone else feel this way or think the same thing or even know what I'm talking about?

-Joshua
JJORG.COM (http://www.jjorg.com/)

KOlson
08-02-2003, 05:19 AM
I saw the Celshader presentation Jen.. it was great :)

SplineGod
08-02-2003, 07:43 AM
I didnt see the setup machine demo but
Lightwave 8 allows you to edit bones in layout as easily as skelegons but with far more options. There are no goal objects with the new IK system. With a click of the mouse, nodes appear at each joint. Parts can be locked into place, IK/FK turned on and off at anytime and/or dynamics applied to heirarchies (not just bones).

Triple G
08-02-2003, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Ikarus
Triple G is that correct, tha they have fully integrated the Setup Machine into layout?

I'm just telling you what I heard. I may have misinterpreted it, but I believe I heard JP say that it was now fully integrated. If someone knows otherwise, or can confirm that it is integrated, please let us know.

Psyhke
08-02-2003, 09:20 AM
Proton stated this on the Newtek forums:

"The Steup machine is a great tool...but it will not be in LightWave 8....."

Newtek thread (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8758&perpage=15&pagenumber=2)

SplineGod
08-02-2003, 09:53 AM
I think people are free to integrate their own plugins into Lightwave but doesnt mean that Newtek bought it or is integrating it into 8.

Nemoid
08-02-2003, 10:54 AM
I didnt see the setup machine demo but
Lightwave 8 allows you to edit bones in layout as easily as skelegons but with far more options. There are no goal objects with the new IK system. With a click of the mouse, nodes appear at each joint. Parts can be locked into place, IK/FK turned on and off at anytime and/or dynamics applied to heirarchies (not just bones).

these features make me :drool:

I too heard thet thing about TSM. maybe this is not integrated but creators of TSM worked for tools in Lw for autocharacter setup ? or also the Irrational number team did that?!
also, there is ACS4...

SplineGod
08-02-2003, 11:37 PM
The TSM stuff is something independant of Newtek I believe.
The other setups tools like ortho and the "one click" IK/FK stuff are Newteks. :)

Nemoid
08-03-2003, 01:53 PM
Ortho tools are surely good.
updated and integrated ortho tools for
rigging in Layout are:drool: !!!
IK/FK in one click too.

very curious about how rigging will work in layout in Lw [8] :)

Mattoo
08-03-2003, 01:58 PM
I've gotta say, I think this is making things a lot harder for newbies. From the live feed I got the impression that this new IK system isn't a replacement or enhancement but another IK system that will sit there at the same time as LWs.

This is not the only case where there's the same feature duplicated somewhere else, but with differing implementations in completely different loactions in the interface.
Two other examples include the 3 ways of of doing Depth of Field effects and the two ways of applying motion blur.

I hope they can unify some of this stuff into their related panels rather than stuck as a plugin or pixel filter in a huge long list of other pixel filters with bizarre names. I mean, Digital Confusion indeed.... that needs to be sorted out pronto.

CB_3D
08-03-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
There are no goal objects with the new IK system. With a click of the mouse, nodes appear at each joint. Parts can be locked into place, IK/FK turned on and off at anytime and/or dynamics applied to heirarchies (not just bones).

What about true dynamic parenting? Logic implies (and demands) that itīs in there too, now. Can you tell us something about that, Larry?

On the NT board nobody seems too eager to answer that type of presented-features related questions.

thx

jpwilson
08-09-2003, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by meatycheesyboy
I didn't catch every presentation every day but I was somewhat confused by a few of them. Perhaps someone could shed some light on a few things concerning Setup Machine for me. In the setup machine presentation the person really touted the fact that it would set up a slider for FK/IK switching. But while showing off the new IK features, William (Proton), said that LW could now do switching on a frame by frame basis natively with no setup. What's the point of the Setup Machine slider thingy if LW already does it automatically? That's just one example. To me the new Ortho features coupled with the new IK features make something like Setup Machine somewhat redundant. Anyone else feel this way or think the same thing or even know what I'm talking about?

-Joshua
JJORG.COM (http://www.jjorg.com/)

Hi Folks,

This is J.p. Wilson, and I would like to clarify a few points about The Setup Machine.

When i stated that the Setup Machine is fully integrated into Lightwave, I was talking about how it works completely inside of Layout, no external programs. Unfortunately the plugin will not be coded into Lightwave 8. However it is our hope to be able to release a demo version of The Setup Machine for LW8 to ship on the LW8 CD, but these are ONLY my hopes as of now.

You do have the ability to change a bone chain from FK to IK in Lightwave 8 keyframe to keyframe, so the current FK/IK slider switching that is currently functional in LW 7.5 will need to be changed.

However one of the most imporant parts of The Setup Machine is not just its time saved in setup alone, but in the benefits of installing a control system designed for and by animators. Sure, a finger is easy to rig in a basic form, three basic bones. However with The Setup Machine you are given control over every aspect of the finger you could want, with a single simple control rig.

If anyone has any questions or comments regarding the current or future versions of The Setup Machine, please feel free to contact me at jp@anzovin.com, or post directly here to CGTalk.

Thank you,
-J.p. Wilson

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