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GCL
07-31-2003, 08:46 PM
Hello all !

Well like most users, I got an email to upgrade to MB5.
My question, I think I understand the features of MB5 BUT
how will it compare to LW 8 upcoming features.

I guess my question is really,
should I get MB5 in addition to my pending LW 8 download when available ? I know it's a great deal but not to have overlapping similar programs.

Thanks all and will wait for feedback.

DaveW
07-31-2003, 09:20 PM
If you don't work with mocap, then it just depends on how fast LW8 ends up being. It looked pretty damn fast in the siggraph demos, but I want to see how it runs on my current machine.

Miyazaki
07-31-2003, 10:28 PM
I`ll definitely update to MB5. Althoug LW8 has some awesome character tools, I doubt the viewport speed will be as fast as MB. I love to animate in MB. It`s so easy and userfriendly.

3DDave
07-31-2003, 11:08 PM
Motion Builder V5 all the way.!

The real time engine, node base constraints, lip sync, pinning, finger/feet controls, motion blending are all reasons to upgrade and continue using Motion Builder.

roguenroll
07-31-2003, 11:21 PM
I have placed my order for MB, ships in early-mid Sept. (too long, but I'll have to wait).:)

milqman
07-31-2003, 11:22 PM
what does 5 have that my current copy of 4 doesn't?

roguenroll
07-31-2003, 11:28 PM
http://www.kaydara.com/products/motionbuilder5/index.php?filename=sneakpeek

http://www.kaydara.com/products/motionbuilder5/index.php

a bunch of new things, and a few of the item in 4 have been upgraded.

i think it looking real interesting

m.d.
08-01-2003, 12:07 AM
motionbuilder, once you set up poses,phenomes,ect. can be driven through any device imaginable...joystick, mouse, midi
and you can control lipsinc by speaking lines into a microphone,so once you've set up your character your done.for 100 bucks ya can't go wrong!

Rabid pitbull
08-01-2003, 12:47 AM
I am still trying to pick up my jaw after watching the quad toe solving movie. That is amazing. I also like the layout and workflow of MB alot more than in LW, of course this could change in LW8, from what I have seen I doubt it. I too doubt that the open gl speed will be anything like in motionbuilder. And of course the render speed is untouchable by LW, granted not too useful for anything more than preview.

ngrava
08-01-2003, 02:04 AM
That's a really good question. It's going to be really interesting to see how LightWave looks in a few more months. I have a feeling that they're going to be adding even more features then what they showed us. I don't think we're going to be disappointed. What they showed was working really well and really fast. To me the interesting thing is that they have time now to make it even faster. ;)

One thing you might want to consider is that Motion Builder doesn't have a built in Cloth simulator or dynamics engine of any kind. It's really just about solid body character animation.

-=GB=-

m.d.
08-01-2003, 05:16 AM
you really can't compare the two. motionbuilder is king of character animation, and that's it.LW is a great modeller, a decent animator, and a great renderer.MB would be an asset to your workflow if your willing to spend the 100$,and you could also live without it. I doubt LW will be comparable to MB any time soon for character animation, but things can always change.

roguenroll
08-01-2003, 05:29 AM
yeah, its the best at what it does, animating. But considering that is a very long process in a slow app, this workflow addition is well worth the effort.

If you were looking for the next all around app you'd have to go with Maya.

Cman
08-01-2003, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by ngrava
...
One thing you might want to consider is that Motion Builder doesn't have a built in Cloth simulator or dynamics engine of any kind. It's really just about solid body character animation.

-=GB=-

I have a feeling they might be adding realtime dynamics to near-future updates, not in v5 though. I asked about it in MB forums and got a ":)" response from company President.

As for LW8 - NT has consistently said we haven't seen all that will be in LW8, though it's been said no rendering updates. However, they said a couple things lately that they've retracted, so who knows what's coming... :shrug:

milqman
08-01-2003, 07:13 AM
I'm quite excited about what will be unveiled in the point releases. Didn't 5.6 come with hypervoxels... for free?! Thats sweet.

pit
08-01-2003, 07:41 AM
motionbuilder can be driven through any device imaginable...joystick, mouse, midi

That is true for the Pro Edition, but not for the Standard Edition...

LFGabel
08-01-2003, 10:28 AM
That is true for the Pro Edition, but not for the Standard Edition...

This statement from Kaydara's president Michael Besner seems to state otherwise.

http://www.kaydara.com/customer_services/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=901

sinbad
08-01-2003, 11:04 AM
I think MotionBuilder and LW make a great combination, especially for the price. I just can't imagine LW8 surpassing the character tools of MB5 though. It would be great if I am wrong of course.
It would be pointless to oppose one againt the other as they arn't competing as products.

p.

m.d.
08-01-2003, 04:06 PM
wow! what app do you know of where you put in a product request and the president says OK.i've asked a few questions in the MB forums and half the time the first guy to answer me is the president of the company.imagine if LW had that kind of service.

LFGabel
08-01-2003, 05:47 PM
This kind of response is indicative of a small company. I'm sure Newtek once responded like this as well...

(I'm not saying Newtek's customer service is bad, just that this kind of personal attention doesn't happen in a larger company)

Cman
08-01-2003, 06:00 PM
According to this (http://www.kaydara.com/products/motionbuilder5/STD_PRO.pdf) product comparison sheet the STD product will let you use keyboard, mouse, joystick. Midi will be Pro only.

I think the biggest loss to STD users will be getting "forum" support only.
Newtek's free phone support is quite unique.

Rabid pitbull
08-01-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Cman
Newtek's free phone support is quite unique.

yes it is since emails often go unanswerd, and it is the only way to get answers 99% of the time....

sorry couldn't resist that one.:hmm:

zaam
08-01-2003, 06:37 PM
MB and LW are complimentary tools. MB is one of the bargains of the year, IMO, and MB5 was one of the most impressive things at Siggraph this year. If you can spare the $$$, it's a HUGE value.

ngrava
08-01-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by m.d.
<SNIP> I doubt LW will be comparable to MB any time soon for character animation, but things can always change.

That's just the thing! Did you watch the demo stream? The New LW IK system work in a very Kaydara like way. IK radiates through out the whole body, you can pin joints, and it's really fast. I'm not kidding! And that was just in the Alpha version of LW8.

So, you see the question is completely valid. Motion Builder may have fast OpenGL preview (sorry, real-time playback), But LightWave has Global Illumination and motion blur and... Well, it's a full renderer. :) It also looks like it's a lot easer to rig up a character in LW8. That's one thing

-=GB=-

LFGabel
08-01-2003, 07:28 PM
NGrava, I too watched the LW8 stream and saw MB in a lot of the features. While that is good, and I'll still be upgrading to both MB5 and LW8. Why? Because setting up the control rig in MB is still a lot faster and easier in MB5. Plus I didn't see any automatic foot controls in LW8. Yes there was a lock to keep the foot control from passing throught he floor, but I didn't see automatic foot roll, which will now also apply to quadrupeds in MB5 as well.

And it's not only the rig that excels in MB5, but also the animation workflow. Animating in layers is an innovation and I don't understand why no one thought of it before.

LW8 and MB5 will definitely compliment each other.

One other factor too... MB5 will be available in less than a month... maybe sooner.

DaveW
08-01-2003, 09:22 PM
Animation layers is not unique to MotionBuilder, other apps have had it for years. Keytrack adds it to Lightwave.

I'll probably upgrade MB5 too but I'm hoping I won't have to use it very often, I don't like switching to other apps for animation.

LFGabel
08-01-2003, 09:31 PM
Well I stand corrected... Out of curiousity, what apps, straight out of the box, natively allow animating in layers?

(I don't mean using the concept of using "freedom nodes")

Triple G
08-01-2003, 09:43 PM
Keytrack is great...if you're on a PC. There's no Mac version available (they've been talking about one for who knows how long?). Motionbuilder 5 is available for OSX. Version 4 works great for me, and I plan on upgrading to both MB5 and LW8. I haven't seen anything regarding new features of Motion Mixer in LW, and the non-linear animation is one area where MB really excels. That, and it's ability to easily deal with Mocap data, to quickly retarget animation from one character to another, etc.

If I need to do any softbody or cloth stuff, I can do that once I bring the character back into LW. I think MB and LW are going to continue to work quite well together. :thumbsup:

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