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View Full Version : Real-time 3D or Pre-rendered??? game in development...


Sangotten
05-12-2002, 08:23 PM
Hi there

I'm working on a game (together with Banshee studio) called Stigma which is still in (pre-) production. We where wondering what kind of an enviorment would be the best for an Action/Adventure/RPG that contains fighting, searching, talking, walking and shooting. Would you go for a Pre-rendered enviorment or a real-time 3D enviorment. We would love to know since that is where we have decide which engine we will use...

Thank you.

puddlefish
05-12-2002, 09:12 PM
Surely this would depend on the type of gameplay you're after? A moving camera and 3D environment is only really necessary if it adds to the dynamic of the game (eg, the twisting camera angles of Silent Hill add a great deal to the feeling of unease).

Prerendered backgrounds require a lot of planning so as not to make the view changes too disorientating, but they can usually hold alot more detail, so they might suit exploration and puzzle-solving gameplay better.

PS: if you haven't already, check out Dino Crisis 2 on the PS1 for some of the best prerendered backgrounds I've seen.

MosaFacku
05-13-2002, 12:41 AM
if you really like both....why not try and combine both, the way final fantasy X has? in games like RE and dino crisis, i found that having the camera fixed could really be a problem sometimes in battle situations. im tryin to kill the zombie, get backed into a corner, and im like, quick, where's the first person view!! how do i move the camera?! the obvious advantage to pre-rendered is that you get REALLY pretty backgrounds and can achieve a very cool cinematic experience. ...not that you can't get a really cinematic experience with all realtime.

a combination of both would be difficult, ffX didnt pull it off all that well, but they still pulled it off good. anyways, thats my 2 cents.

The Magic Pen
05-13-2002, 04:28 AM
I agree with Mosa the Final Fantasy approach of combining pre-render and real-time 3d gets the most bang for your buck , but takes a hell of a lot of scripting and deffinatly has limitations with camera control . I think the visuals that can be produced however more then make up for it .

Sangotten
05-13-2002, 08:20 AM
Thank you for your replies!!!

Well, the main gameplay is action, that means a lot of running, shooting and jumping. But there's also a great part of exploring, searching and talking... The running and shooting is at it's best when there is used real-time 3D, though for RPG part details and graphics play a big part. Pre-rendered background do take a lot of planning just as Puddlefish said.
I will ask what the options are for a mixed gameplay, anyway thanks!!!

Cockofthewok
05-18-2002, 03:21 PM
I'd say use realtime as something like Devil May Cry. That way you can get dynamic camera angles in the action scenes.

amusedtoe
05-24-2002, 09:13 PM
well both could work if done right but from the way u described it id say real time sinceu said thered not only be lots of action but lots of enviroment interaction (i.e. searching teaking etc) and realtime is ussually the better fit for that kinda stuff. imo it also make for a better eviroment to be interacted with then a static image like resident evil or the likes. thats jus my two cents though
-peace

spakman
05-29-2002, 07:35 PM
100% realtime all the way, baby. You can pull that off and FMV's a cakewalk.

yinako
06-06-2002, 05:36 PM
first if you don't have a clear idea of how your game is determined, and just start a game by simply trying to design one, the odds are you are not going to make a good game.
You should have a clear idea how you game runs under what environment.

other than that, about pre-rendereed, much of games in the future would be realtime, since pre rendered quality would be no different from realtime.

Bilbana
07-03-2002, 03:04 PM
Go for realtime not just because it's easier to do stuff in but to get everything look the same.
I just hate the final fantasy approach when you see a lowpoly character running around in a scrolling, strange perspective, inacurate collisionboxes, stupid shadows, rendered background that looks absolutly from another world since it's using higher polygon count and texture size.
grrr

Just my opinion.

spakman
07-03-2002, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Bilbana
Go for realtime not just because it's easier to do stuff in...


?!? Hardly easier.

spakman
07-03-2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Bilbana
I just hate the final fantasy approach when you see a lowpoly character...

So then the task is to make realtime look like those Final Fantasy commercials we all drool over. Whoever told to this was easier is having some fun with you.

peace :beer:

RutRem
07-04-2002, 08:28 AM
3D realtime is much better choice , if ur company have problems
in dev. a realtime engine try this link, a free engine for comercial
use , with a renderr like Quake 3 Arena

http://www.radeonlabs.de

Bilbana
07-04-2002, 08:41 AM
Ok spakman, you get me all wrong and i'm not sure even you know what you're talking about.

1st post
Ofcourse it's easier do do stuff (read amusedtoe) in realtime, I mean since everything you are going to interact with is so much easier to interact with if its physicaly there ie. a chair that moves when you run in to it etc. Since it's physicaly there you can apply the game physics to it or whatever. This is something that is really hard to do with the final fantasy approach. Have you ever wondered why the final fantasy games are so stiff, you can almost never interact with the screen you are in except walk on it (which it actually looks like your doing, more on this).
So it's not a question about which is easier to model and make it look nice it's a question about interactivity. Hope this clears things up.

2nd post
Since I actually work in the game industry and have for the last 2,5 years (in game 3d modeller/texturer) I very well know that higher polygon count and higher texture resolution is never easier.
On to your post, What the hell are you talking about, I never said anything about it being easier to do the pre-rendered quality of the final fantasy commercials in realtime. I just don't know where you got that from.
I said I don't like the mix of high poly/texture background and low poly/texture characters, since it looks like you walk around with you characters on a picture and not an enviroment(which is exactly what you're doing) get it?

spakman
07-05-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Bilbana
Ok spakman, you get me all wrong and i'm not sure even you know what you're talking about.

1st post
Ofcourse it's easier do do stuff (read amusedtoe) in realtime.

2nd post
Since I actually work in the game industry

Rilly? Dood I wanna work were you work then, cos over here realtime is a biyatch. But it's sooo pretty.

peace d=^)

spakman
07-05-2002, 09:19 PM
But seriously, tho, Bilbana, you should chill. (and stop waving your credentials around. It looks bad to the newskool. You should stand on what you've got to say, not where you're saying it from)

Here's the dealio. Sucky realtime is easier to do than sucky FMV cos the assetts can be the same (Whereas, even sucky FMV is a whole 'nuther ball of wax). To get dopadelic realtime takes far more effort.

L8

Cockofthewok
07-05-2002, 09:31 PM
I smell a bar Brawl!:beer:

Bilbana
07-07-2002, 10:29 AM
Ok I knew I would get something like this for my credential waving (which it wasn't, 2,5 years are not too much to wave around with)
I was just telling you where i come from and that I have some experience in these things.

On to the subject.
You should read my posts again (perhaps read more than the first line this time), but if you still don't get them here's another explanation.
Everything realtime = Easier to do interactive stuff etc
I still haven't said anything about it being easier to make it look good, still you keep commenting on just that.

I have said that I don't like when the pre-rendered and realtime get mixed up, especially the final fantasy way since it in my opinion looks like you walk around on a picture.
This is my last post in this matter but if you like to post another reply about me being wrong about it being easier to do realtime go ahead. But that's not what i'm saying, but still... go ahead.

spakman
07-07-2002, 11:42 PM
Dood, we agree. We both prefer realtime. And I do know what you are talking about. But others might not know what you are talking about, and assume all reatime is easier, when in fact there is only one kind of realtime that is easier.

peace d=^D

Larry_g1s
07-17-2002, 12:47 AM
I agree with most of the statements above. That it all depends on what kinda gameplay your trying to achieve. Over all I'd prefer real-time. But pre-rendered, if done well, can be just as fantastic...just look at Resident Evil: Rebirth (remake) for the GameCube. Fantastic :thumbsup:

spakman
07-17-2002, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Juggernaut
I agree with most of the statements above. That it all depends on what kinda gameplay your trying to achieve. Over all I'd prefer real-time. But pre-rendered, if done well, can be just as fantastic...just look at Resident Evil: Rebirth (remake) for the GameCube. Fantastic :thumbsup:

But that isn't the direction the industry is headed. People increasingly want to interact with their virtual surroundings how they see fit. Soon it's all gonna be about realtime (already is IMHO), and you won't be able to rely on a fixed camera to hide mistakes and kludges.

Larry_g1s
07-17-2002, 07:47 PM
But that isn't the direction the industry is headed. People increasingly want to interact with their virtual surroundings how they see fit. Soon it's all gonna be about realtime (already is IMHO), and you won't be able to rely on a fixed camera to hide mistakes and kludges.


That's why I said I prefer real-time. But I disagree that there is no need for pre-rendered. And I don't believe Capcom is using pre-rendered to "hide mistakes and kludges" as you stated. If you played the recent game, it fits the genre perfect. The angles are there to set something up, the fear of what's around the corner, much like that genre of movies. In the survival horror movies, you can't pre peek around the corner, and that's what scares the crap outta ya when something jumps out. And IMHO, though I prefer real-time, I think there is a place for pre-rendered if done correctly & I think Capcom is doing a great job with the RE & (from what I've seen) RE0 on the GameCube. So again, it all depends on what style of gameplay one is trying to achieve.

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