PDA

View Full Version : Halo Anime


bentllama
07-23-2009, 07:53 PM
HALO ANIME

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/press/2009/07-23Xbox_sm.jpg

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/jul09/07-23NorthstarPR.mspx
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/100/1006564p1.html
http://kotaku.com/5320898/details-about-halo-anime

it has been awesome seeing this project grow. fans of both halo and anime will not be disappointed, it will also make new fans out of both.

___________________________________________________

REDMOND, Wash. — July 23, 2009 — A renowned set of storytellers from some of the world’s leading anime studios in Japan are about to take one of the most iconic franchises in science fiction and video games to a new level. Microsoft Corp., in collaboration with some of the most acclaimed anime creators, today unveiled a new project called “Halo Legends,” which will bring the “Halo” franchise and its sweeping sci-fi saga to an entirely new medium, in the form of several original anime short films.

“Halo Legends,” which will officially debut at a panel presentation today at Comic-Con International in San Diego, is being produced by Microsoft’s 343 Industries and features creative direction from anime pioneer Shinji Aramaki, director of the critically acclaimed “Appleseed” and “Appleseed EX Machina” anime features, and Mamoru Oshii, director of the landmark “Ghost in the Shell” movies, with additional production from Joseph Chou of J-Spec Pictures. The compilation will include a series of short stories that explore different times, themes and characters from the “Halo” universe and will be distributed globally by Warner Home Video, a Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. company. Influential studios that are part of the project include the creators behind some of the most popular and celebrated anime to come from Japan, such as “The Animatrix,” “Cowboy Bebop,” “Fullmetal Alchemist,” “Ghost in the Shell,” “Dragon Ball” and more.

“The opportunity to work with talents such as Shinji Aramaki, Mamoru Oshii and others from some of the greatest anime studios is a very rare opportunity for Microsoft,” said Frank O’Connor, “Halo” franchise development director and provider of story and creative direction for 343 Industries. “We’ve seen the world through Master Chief’s eyes, and we’ve experienced facets of the universe through a variety of literary prisms, but now we get to watch new tales unfold in really rich, visually dynamic ways. I think anime fans and ‘Halo’ fans alike are in for a real treat.”

Set hundreds of years in the future, the “Halo” series of games and novels chronicle mankind’s struggles against an alien collective known as the Covenant. The Covenant is scouring the universe for relics it believes will lead it to a new life and is destroying civilizations and planets that stand in its way. The most prolific hero from the fiction is a super soldier or Spartan known as Master Chief, who is the main protagonist in the original trilogy of Xbox and Xbox 360 “Halo” titles. In the trilogy, Master Chief discovers that the Covenant is intent on activating a series of mysterious ring worlds known as “Halos,” which would ultimately exterminate life throughout the universe. He becomes mankind’s champion in a race against an unrelenting enemy in its most desperate hour. Through The New York Times best-selling novels, comics and additional Xbox 360 games such as “Halo Wars” and the upcoming “Halo 3: ODST,” the universe has grown and tales of other heroes have emerged.

“‘Halo’ and its characters are a very natural fit for anime,” said Aramaki, creative director for the “Halo Legends” project. “As a fan of the ‘Halo’ universe, it is an honor to work with Microsoft and my very talented peers from other studios to create this collection.”

Studios involved in the “Halo Legends” project include Bones Inc., Casio Entertainment Inc., Production I.G, STUDIO4°C and Toei Animation.


Bones. Founded in 1998, Bones has become one of the top animation studios in Japan in less than a decade. The studio is best known for its incredible body of work on mega-hit franchises such as “Cowboy Bebop: The Movie,” “Fullmetal Alchemist,” “Sword of the Stranger” and “Eureka Seven.”


Casio Entertainment. Casio Entertainment was founded in 2004 and is renowned for its visual effects work on the movie “Dai Nipponjin” (“Big Man of Japan”), which was officially invited to the 2007 Cannes Film Festival and nominated for Best Visual Effects at the 2008 Asian Film Awards. Casio Entertainment is also known for its computer-generated animation support work on several top Japanese video games.


Production I.G. Production I.G has produced a number of acclaimed feature films, original video animation, TV shows and video games. For their storytelling and quality of animation, “Ghost in the Shell,” “Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade” and “Blood: The Last Vampire” have earned critical accolades in Japan and all around the world. “Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence,” directed by Mamoru Oshii in 2004, was the first Japanese animation feature ever to compete for the Palme d’Or at the Festival de Cannes.


STUDIO4°C.STUDIO4°C is one of the top animation studios in Japan. Founded by the industry veteran Eiko Tanaka and acclaimed animation artist Koji Morimoto, it has become globally known for its uncanny ability to marry the spirit of high art with mainstream anime aesthetic. STUDIO4°C is known for works including “The Animatrix,” “Tekkonkinkreet” and “Batman: Gotham Knight.”


Toei Animation. Toei Animation, established in 1956, is the oldest animation studio in Japan. Toei has produced the largest number of global hit TV anime series for kids, such as “Dragon Ball,” “Digimon,” “Sailor Moon,” “One Piece” and many more.

The complete “Halo Legends” collection will be distributed by Microsoft partner Warner Home Video, which will have more to announce on its release and distribution plans soon.

“As a leading entertainment distributor and a company identified with premier anime content, we’re very pleased to be working with Microsoft on ‘Halo Legends,’” said Amit Desai, vice president, Family, Animation and Partner Brands Marketing, Warner Home Video. “The combination of the talent involved and the ‘Halo’ brand ensure the collection is something consumers are really going to enjoy.”

A preview of select “Halo Legends” episodes will first debut on Xbox LIVE, the largest gaming and entertainment network in the world, starting this fall through a new experience called Halo Waypoint. Launching in fall, Halo Waypoint will be a new destination for “Halo” fans on Xbox LIVE around the world. It will inform fans of the latest “Halo” news and activities, and grant access to content ranging from podcasts, trailers and screenshots, to exclusive video footage you won’t find anywhere else. It also will provide a new challenge for “Halo” gamers with a career system and player rankings tied to both in-game and out-of-game accomplishments related to “Halo.” In addition to the limited, early episode premieres, Halo Waypoint will debut several behind-the-scenes videos that chronicle the making of “Halo Legends.”

More information will be shared about “Halo Legends” today at a panel at Comic-Con International in San Diego. The “Halo” franchise panel will be hosted by O’Connor, moderated by Chou, and will feature guests Aramaki; Mitsuhisa Ishikawa, president of Production I.G; and Tanaka, president of STUDIO4°C. The panel takes place from 4:30 to 5:30 p.m. PDT in Room 6BCF of the San Diego Convention Center. “Halo Legends” panelists will sign autographs at the Microsoft Xbox 360 booth in Hall G #5225 from 6 to 7 p.m. There also will be a signing at the Warner Bros. booth Hall F #4329 on Friday, July 24, from 10:30 to 11:30 a.m., with O’Connor and 343 Industries’ managing editor Kevin Grace on hand to answer questions about the project. In addition, the first trailer for “Halo Legends” will debut exclusively tonight on “GameTrailers TV with Geoff Keighley,” airing at 12:30 a.m. ET/PT on Spike TV.

About “Halo”

The “Halo” franchise is an award-winning collection of properties that have grown into a global entertainment phenomenon. Beginning with the original “Halo: Combat Evolved” for Xbox in 2001, the rich fiction of the franchise has since inspired a series of blockbuster Xbox and Xbox 360 video games, The New York Times best-selling novels, comic books, action figures, apparel and more.

Published by Microsoft Game Studios, the “Halo” franchise of games is exclusive to the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system and the games are optimized for the Xbox LIVE online entertainment network. More than 27 million copies of “Halo” games have been sold worldwide, driving more than 2 billion hours of gameplay by people connected to Xbox LIVE. In February 2009, the “Halo” franchise expanded into the real-time strategy genre with “Halo Wars,” which went on to become the best-selling real-time strategy game on any current generation console. On Sept. 22, 2009, Microsoft will release “Halo 3: ODST,” the next chapter for “Halo” and prequel to the events that transpire in “Halo 3.”

About 343 Industries

343 Industries is the publisher of the blockbuster “Halo” series of videogames and, as part of Microsoft Game Studios, oversees the “Halo” franchise, including novels, comics, licensed collectibles, apparel and more. 343 Industries is home to world-class developers working on future “Halo” projects, including “Halo Legends” and Halo Waypoint, as well as partnering with renowned developers such as Bungie LLC and Robot Entertainment to produce “Halo” games for Xbox 360 and Xbox LIVE.

About Xbox 360

Xbox 360 is a premier video game and entertainment system. It is home to the best and broadest games as well as the largest on-demand library of standard- and high-definition movies and TV shows connected to the television — with music coming this fall. The digital center of the living room, Xbox 360 blends unbeatable content with the largest online social network of 20 million members on Xbox LIVE to create a limitless entertainment experience that can be shared at home or across the globe. With the addition of currently code-named “Project Natal,” Xbox 360 will forever transform social gaming and entertainment with a whole new way to play — no controller required. More information about “Project Natal” and Xbox 360 can be found online at http://www.xbox.com/projectnatal and http://www.xbox.com.

About Xbox LIVE

Xbox LIVE is the largest gaming and entertainment network and delivers more entertainment than any device connected to the television, including movies, TV and games, with music coming this fall. This fall, Xbox LIVE also will be the only entertainment service to provide instant-on 1080p streaming HD video from Zune video in supported countries. With an active community of more than 20 million people across 26 countries, Xbox LIVE lets you play the best games, enjoy the largest on-demand library and, coming soon, listen to millions of songs — all while connecting to friends anytime. An Xbox LIVE Gold membership provides you with exclusive benefits and premium access to entertainment from the top studios and services, all in one place. More information about Xbox LIVE can be found online at http://www.xbox.com/live.

About Microsoft

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq “MSFT”) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential.

Note to editors: If you are interested in viewing additional information on Microsoft, please visit the Microsoft Web page at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass on Microsoft’s corporate information pages. Web links, telephone numbers and titles were correct at time of publication, but may since have changed. For additional assistance, journalists and analysts may contact Microsoft’s Rapid Response Team or other appropriate contacts listed at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/contactpr.mspx.

BigPixolin
07-23-2009, 08:17 PM
I think it will also turn people away from Halo. I know it has for me.

Michael5188
07-23-2009, 08:43 PM
I think it will also turn people away from Halo. I know it has for me.

Why's that? Just curious. I'm not really a fan of either. (With some exceptions of course)

helios01
07-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Looking forward to it, those are some big names they got on board.

Boone
07-23-2009, 10:23 PM
Damn, and here I was hoping the South Park team would get the deal instead...

mystery00
07-24-2009, 02:16 AM
Like most animes geared towards western audiences I doubt this will be anything special. It'll probably be an average anime based on an average game.

JoshBowman
07-24-2009, 08:37 AM
Like most animes geared towards western audiences I doubt this will be anything special. It'll probably be an average anime based on an average game.

I'll give it a shot, I won't judge it until I've seen some of the episodes.

But based on past wester/japan crossovers, the only anime i can remember that was any good was "The Animatrix" where the best shorts were clearly the ones where the Japanese directors were allowed to come up with their own story within The Matrix framework.

Halo is guns, suits and aliens, if there was any country that could make a Halo series work it would be the Japanese, so why not allow them creative control?

I guess Microsoft wants to hold all the cards of their signature franchise close to their chest and won't trust anyone on the outside lest they screw it up.

But I'll wait before writing it off.

TRAILER IMPRESSIONS:
Studio 4C episodes will undoubtedly look really good but the look of several episodes really didn't make me want to watch them at all, there looks to be a mix of really cheap CG character animation and some other better CG animation so we'll see....we'll see.

SheepFactory
07-24-2009, 09:02 AM
TRAILER IMPRESSIONS:
Studio 4C episodes will undoubtedly look really good but the look of several episodes really didn't make me want to watch them at all, there looks to be a mix of really cheap CG character animation and some other better CG animation so we'll see....we'll see.


Where is the trailer?

leigh
07-24-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm really disappointed that they've chosen to go with anime for this, as I really, really dislike the anime style. I tried to be open-minded, and watched the trailer, and no, I'll definitely not be watching this, I really don't like the look of it one bit.

And it's a shame, because I am a huge Halo fan.

bentllama
07-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Where is the trailer?

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-debut-halo-legends/53157

more, and proper, info to follow

R10k
07-24-2009, 09:52 AM
...as I really, really dislike the anime style.

QFA

I don't like the anime style at all, in anything, but it looks even more odd here.

mystery00
07-24-2009, 11:17 AM
After seeing the trailer now I'm pretty convinced that it's not worth watching. Generic and uninspired.

Ben-Davis
07-24-2009, 11:48 AM
I hate the fact that Microsoft owns the rights to the Halo franchise, you know for years to come they're going to destroy all that was brilliant about Halo through endless second rate attempts at trying to make more money. I kind of hope that Halo Legends fails so that Microsoft know not to do it again.

MrPositive
07-24-2009, 12:24 PM
I feel anime has really gotten a bad rap, because of such a repetitive look and feel to many of the works coming out: teenage she-males, blocky animation, etc. Nevertheless, there is some really high quality stuff also, including Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, etc. and both directors are on this project. I enjoy the Halo franchise to such a level, that I at least have to give it a chance. Shrug.

Regardless, I'll never forgive them not budgeting Neill Blomkamp a film. His shorts were dope in my book.

BigPixolin
07-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Why's that? Just curious. I'm not really a fan of either. (With some exceptions of course)
Becuase I freakin hate Anime.
I will go as far as to call anime a hack.
Take that image of Master Cheif runing in space. All it needs is the backround flashing in seizure inducing paterns while Master Cheif stand as still as a statue and you got a 5 minute action shot they can use over and over.:rolleyes:

ragdoll
07-24-2009, 06:50 PM
they should've kept it 100% 3d and asked either Digic or Blur to make it into a feature...that anime style just doesn't mix well with a franchise name like Halo.

Larry_g1s
07-24-2009, 07:02 PM
I like the anime look. Hey BL, I've never played any of the Halo games, where does the story take place in regards to Legends?

Boone
07-24-2009, 07:02 PM
It doesn't actually look too bad, in all honesty.

Yes, Anime is a hack, but then again so is Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park and - the worst of the bunch - Life & Times of Tim. Oh, and all the Rotoscoped stuff done over the years...

I think it just comes down to whether or not this Halo Anime has much meat in the story and character department. I don't think Halo is anything special beyond the fans crying out "Master Chief rules!", but it may have a few great stories here and there, so I'm willing to give it a chance...

Laa-Yosh
07-24-2009, 08:05 PM
they should've kept it 100% 3d and asked either Digic or Blur to make it into a feature...

Not sure about the others here, or at Blur think, but IMHO such a full CG project would be awesome. Although more like the Animatrix - one short film per studio, different moods and art styles... And there are quite a few franchises that could be turned into such a project.

Seraca
07-25-2009, 02:14 AM
Not a gamer at all

But I am an anime fanatic ( almost)
so when I saw "production IG" was involved in this
it got my interest I will definately check it out.

bentllama
07-25-2009, 09:55 AM
I hate the fact that Microsoft owns the rights to the Halo franchise, you know for years to come they're going to destroy all that was brilliant about Halo through endless second rate attempts at trying to make more money. I kind of hope that Halo Legends fails so that Microsoft know not to do it again.

the brilliance of Halo is its growth and wide arms hugging loads of stories in the same amazing universe. what other franchise has so much canon and is constantly growing?...hmm...i think it has some droids and some Force powers or something...

also, to hope people fail is not very sporting, or a demeanor welcome in many shops.

love it or hate it, the Halo Legends teams are doing a great job with the pieces. i am a traditionally trained western animator, I do not appreciate much anime. it confuses me. with the Halo canon though, I can appreciate anime storytelling and marvel at some of the brilliant stuff the houses are doing. give it a chance, then have your honest and informed review. one should expect the same in return of their own work, student or professional...

Geta-Ve
07-25-2009, 03:40 PM
At first I wasn't really digging this, not really understanding what the premise was, but now that I realize it is basically an Animatrix, Halo style, and the fact that BONES is working on a short, I am THERE.

BONES is an amazing studio, having worked on a few really amazing anime, Soul Eater, FullMetal Alchemist and Xam'd to name a few.

By the way, we are all artists here, and we all come from varying backgrounds of artistry, I don't really think it is appropriate, or necessary to label any kind of style as 'hack'. Personally I take a little offense to it. You don't like it, that's fine, no one is forcing you to, but don't sit there and pretend like anime (as a whole) does not take a lot of hard work by talented individuals to complete, because that is just plain ignorant.

Seraca
07-25-2009, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=Geta-Ve
By the way, we are all artists here, and we all come from varying backgrounds of artistry, I don't really think it is appropriate, or necessary to label any kind of style as 'hack'. Personally I take a little offense to it. You don't like it, that's fine, no one is forcing you to, but don't sit there and pretend like anime (as a whole) does not take a lot of hard work by talented individuals to complete, because that is just plain ignorant.[/QUOTE]


Quoted For Agreement!!

Rounin
07-25-2009, 10:53 PM
As much as I like anime (concepts/styles/stories), the best thing they could have done was have a mixture of eastern and western studios. Imagine the many different unique styles. As far as 3D with 2D goes, unless it's intergrated well, it always looks off. One of the best that pulls it off though were Disney, before they went full 3D. They matched it near perfectly. For full 3D, if it ain't Square-enix, Blur or some company with a big resources, forget about it.

And for people calling anime a hack that's fine, but it's not going away anytime soon. Anime has been around for a very looonng time.

BigPixolin
07-25-2009, 11:11 PM
I'm sorry if anyone takes offense of labeling anime a hack.
I just can't help to think that when I watch anime and the biggest action shot is actually just a still image with flashing colors. Or when the facial animation is completly wacked in every sense imagable. Mouths turning to big holes, Eyes turing to huge eyballs then back to big X's in a blink of a eye with no actual animation. Or when they run and it seems like only 25% of the frames are there. I could go on and on...
I would not get offended by people seeing these things and mentioning them. They are in fact there. IMO anime is a hack of real animation. My clients would never accept a product animation with so much missing information and gimmicky tricks to try and hide the lack of actual animation.

Seraca
07-25-2009, 11:44 PM
I just can't help to think that when I watch anime and the biggest action shot is actually just a still image with flashing colors. Or when the facial animation is completly wacked in every sense imagable. Mouths turning to big holes, Eyes turing to huge eyballs then back to big X's in a blink of a eye with no actual animation. Or when they run and it seems like only 25% of the frames are there. I could go on and on...
.


You have a very..VERY limited Viewing experience with good "Adult" (not porn) anime
I dont see any of the cliche's you describe in "Akira" 'Ghost in the Shell" "Jin Roh the wolf brigade" "patlabor" "Ninja Scroll"."wonderful days" etc etc etc .

I mean one could easily got to youtube and watch several AWFUL poser character animations and proclaim "3D character animation is a hack" and such a person would be speaking from the same limited perspective you obviously are.



Cheers

Boone
07-26-2009, 12:21 AM
I'm sorry if anyone takes offense of labeling anime a hack.
I just can't help to think that when I watch anime and the biggest action shot is actually just a still image with flashing colors. Or when the facial animation is completly wacked in every sense imagable. Mouths turning to big holes, Eyes turing to huge eyballs then back to big X's in a blink of a eye with no actual animation. Or when they run and it seems like only 25% of the frames are there. I could go on and on...
I would not get offended by people seeing these things and mentioning them. They are in fact there. IMO anime is a hack of real animation. My clients would never accept a product animation with so much missing information and gimmicky tricks to try and hide the lack of actual animation.

That's a fair point, but without "hacking" the majority of Japanese animation projects simply would not get off the ground. In fact, America itself seems incapable of producing more mature animation as animation is expensive, and so 95% of all animated features are geared towards kids. And bugger me, they are mostly full of talking animals. I think the only person to steer animation to a more mature level was Ralph Bakshi with films like Fire & Ice, LOTR and American Pop. When you think about it, he is the strongest example of maturity in American animation and even he had to resort to hacking with Rotoscoping...

By making sacrifices in animation quality, Japanese Animation can afford to cater to all ages - not just kids. **** the Madagascars and Cars of this world - give me the Highlander, Patlabor and Ghost in the Shell animes and I'm well catered for.

Seraca
07-26-2009, 12:36 AM
There is alot of Good anime series out there most of it With with japanese audio
http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/Time_of_Eve

A good place to look also is HULU TV
they have a very Good selection thats not the "kid stuff".

SheepFactory
07-26-2009, 06:22 AM
I think this is fitting:

http://www.tonightshowwithconanobrien.com/video/clips/conan-and-andy-do-manga-072409/1139088/

Seraca
07-26-2009, 09:33 AM
Never get Tired Of the Dialog from Ghost!!

Project 2501 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwTwU2oa8Rg)

Rounin
07-26-2009, 04:51 PM
@sheepfactory

Looked like they both had a really good time doing that. That improv was funny stuff.

Geta-Ve
07-26-2009, 07:06 PM
I'm sorry if anyone takes offense of labeling anime a hack.
I just can't help to think that when I watch anime and the biggest action shot is actually just a still image with flashing colors. Or when the facial animation is completly wacked in every sense imagable. Mouths turning to big holes, Eyes turing to huge eyballs then back to big X's in a blink of a eye with no actual animation. Or when they run and it seems like only 25% of the frames are there. I could go on and on...
I would not get offended by people seeing these things and mentioning them. They are in fact there. IMO anime is a hack of real animation. My clients would never accept a product animation with so much missing information and gimmicky tricks to try and hide the lack of actual animation.


Ya, all you are telling me is that you have never actually watched any good anime...

You should scope out the first episode from a show called Xam'd. Has some top notch animation.

Seraca
07-26-2009, 09:34 PM
Another REALLY good series was YUKIKAZE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZstHPBJCV8)

I bought the first season on DVD
a few years ago

Michael5188
07-27-2009, 07:14 PM
Another REALLY good series was YUKIKAZE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZstHPBJCV8)

I bought the first season on DVD
a few years ago

I do agree there is good anime out there, but I don't think that clip is helping your cause. It's a lot of cell shaded CG models and explosions, then clips of people standing nearly frozen on the deck of a ship at the end.

I find this is the type of thing countless people trying to get me into anime show me. Really beautiful, quickly edited scenes of cell shaded cg elements, that in the end are just kind of boring (to me). For example I see an amazing CG robot moving around and shooting rockets, and then it cuts to a hand drawn character, and the animation still looks like it's lacking any inbetweens.

In the end I like an anime almost purely off the story. I'm not a huge fan of the designs or visuals commonly seen in anime. That's not to say it's bad, it's just not my thing.

Geta-Ve
07-27-2009, 07:36 PM
@Michael5188

As I said to the other user, look (somewhere) for the first episode of Xam'd, some really sweet animation in there.

edit: here is some of it (if mods want me to remove link, just let me know, or edit this post yourself :P)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16Ji-B-rYc

Or watch all of FLCL (6 eps) insanely good animation

Per-Anders
07-27-2009, 07:57 PM
Sorry guys, I have to say that bigpixolin has a point on this. I enjoy some anime, but the actual animation itself is mostly just terrible. I never understand why people bring up Akira of all things as an example of good animation in Anime, yes the story is cool, the design is great, but the animation sucks, it's lots of the typical bodies don't move, mouths do, there was one particularly funny scene in that with them walking and all it was was them sliding up and down on the frame.

There are good and legitimate reasons for that, especially financially, and yes it's better that the film gets made and the story told with less than perfect animation than not at all, but I don't think you can really say anime (yes that includes all those studio Ghibli films that everyone loves) as a genre has the best quality animation.

I also do have to take a jab at anyone who seriously suggests that anime is so much more adventurous, or adult than western animation, or that it appeals to more age groups. I think you must be confusing teen with adult here. Teens are not adults, make something more crude and add more explosions and basically you're hitting your target group there and that's what most anime does just as most western animation does. Western animation appeals to just as wide an age group if not wider, it has to satisfy both parents and children, and then also try to take as large a bite out of that teen market as possible, the writing and dialog tends to be much sharper, and often requires a greater level of sophistication than you might expect. The idea that the shape of the protagonists somehow separates the boys from the men (talking animals versus gundam eh? lol) is ridiculous, anime is tremendously repetitive in themes, storylines and emotional "hooks", it treads the same old paths and is as hackneyed as the vast majority of western animation. For most western kids though it's new and fresh because it's not what they've grown up with. Cliches exist in every market, especially one that's as saturated as anime. Bear in mind that there are only 7 basic storylines in existence and that anime just like western animation uses the same motifs endlessly and that's all you can expect.

Basically you cannot justify anime as being better in any way shape or form than western animation, it's incredibly naive to do so, it's like trying to argue that unequivocally raspberries are better than strawberries and anyone that disagrees is an idiot, because raspberries are so much more sophisticated, it's always pot, kettle. But you can say it's another interesting and valid artform, style and even set of sub genres in the storytelling world.

Personally I've never had a problem with liking both western animation (complete with stories that involve talking animals, over-polish, lots of trashy pop culture references) and eastern anime (complete with gundams, explosions, gore, sex, violence, ridiculous slowed down secondary motions and big eyes small mouth un-tweened cheap animation). If it doesn't stop the story from being good or characters empathetic then presentation is of secondary importance, and in fact picking a style to work to first before writing the plot seems to me to be far too cynical and fundamentally the wrong way to do things.

Seraca
07-27-2009, 08:29 PM
I do agree there is good anime out there, but I don't think that clip is helping your cause. .



Its Not my "Cause" Anime has a huge & Growing worldwide following without me or any naybobs on CG Society




Cheers

Geta-Ve
07-27-2009, 08:32 PM
@Per-Anders

I am not sure how you can justify classing anime's animation as 'mostly terrible' and then tell us we can't say that western animation is mostly child oriented.

So you can generalize, but we can't?

I would love to see a comparison in content, maturity and animation be made for shows like Xam'd, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Now and Then Here and There, Haibane Renmei, Edin of the Ease, to name a few.

What Western cartoons could you recommend to me that could be compared to those shows? Avatar? Ninja Turtles(old or new)? Transformers(any really)? Reboot? Spongebob? Granted I am not as much of an enthusiast of Western cartoons as I am of Eastern anime, so I am probably missing a few key shows, but off the top of my head and from the few I mentioned the best there would be Avatar, and even then it tries to mimick the anime style.

Maybe you are like me in that regards, where the only anime you have watched are shows like Pokemon, Dragonball, Yu-Gi-Oh, Bayblades, OnePiece, Gundam, and the like. And you know, if that were/is the case then I can't really blame you for formulating such an opinion, but there is a lot more to anime than what the local cartoon network channel has on display. Which should be obvious to most people...?

Personally I don't really care what shape my protagonists takes, as Miazaki films have proven time and again over the years, but what I do care about is the depth of the characters that I am watching have.

The fact is that there is good and bad in both Western and Easter cartoon/anime. Period. :shrug:

cresshead
07-27-2009, 08:57 PM
as far as a trailer goes, that was really not much in it...
was that a trailer or a promo of the studio's involved as ther's more logo's and logo text than any shot of the show itself...


as far as anime goes, i like GOOD anime such as planetes, sky blue, vexille

what i saw did not get me intersted...maybe once there's a real trailer then i might jump on board the animae halo wagon...i'm not a halo fan btw..never played it even thogh i had an xbox and have a 360...not really a fan of doom clones...we should have moved on more since 1996

re anime generally...i read up above my post that some look down on anime and bad animation etc...well i'll take finalcial shortcuts in production on an anime film over throwing in singy/songy sections that keep me away from ever completing watching some disney films to eaither fast forward thru the songs or rummage thru my popcorn and drink o 5 mins...

also disney/pixar/dreamworks/pdi/bluesky have yet to make a growup film using 3d whereas animae is just 1 medium for grown up films over in japan.

forsakendreams
07-27-2009, 10:14 PM
Well, the Halo trailer looked okay. Like the Animatrix compilation it looks like there's some nice shorts, some really bad shorts and some really odd looking ones (the all CG in space looking one). I've always preferred the style/look of studio 4C myself.

Regarding the "anime" style, I always cringe when people bring up something like Full Metal Alchemist or Cowboy Bebop as stellar examples of Japanese animation. The animation in those shows, Full Metal Alchemist in particular, was baaaad. FMA character designs, gah. Now I do love Cowboy Bebop in terms of the story and look, but seriously, those were made for TV and the animation quality shows. It's no wonder that some people end up thinking anime is equivalent to "bug-eyes", cheap multi-second holds, and flashing colored lines behind an static action pose. Aside from the large anime eyes, most of those techniques serve the same purpose as similar techniques in western tv animation - they save a lot of time and money.

Anime is a huge industry in Japan and nearly 99% the tiny amount that trickles into foreign countries is made for tv, and often very cheaply made for tv. A lot of anime is crap. Just like a lot of tv animation aimed at kids in the west not so hot. And it is very much aimed at kids. The difference though is that in Japan, like their comics, anime spans many many genres, from slow moving detective stories, to horror and historical ficiton as well as the adult industry. There is a lot of anime out there that would bore most kids to death.

Actual animation style is also very different between the western Disney asthetic and anime feature films. Let's not sink to the lowest common denominator of bad tv animation.. horribly atrocious 2d animation porrly blended with bad looking cg (the Ghost in the Shell TV series comes to mind) are plentiful in both the US and Japan. Then there is the crazy caffeine induced stuff - Spongebob Squarepants / Powder Puff Girls vs Crayon Shinchan / Kodomo no Omocha. Much of the current flash based pose to pose snapping style really turns my brain to mush.
But back to the western Disney asthetic - which can at times be overanimated and almost rubbery/jello looking, and the anime asthetic of stiffer (less squash and stretch) animation. Simply they are two different approaches and I'm not sure one can say one style is "better" than the other. The style of animation should fit the mood and feeling of the story. Just as the style and mood Coraline probably works better in stop-motion style than in full 3D CG.

Much of western feature and tv animation has always had the annoying stigma of being for children only. Also the huge budgets required for producing an animated feature film in the US force studios to target the audience that will bring in the most cash, and with the stigma animation seems to have with teens and adults it creates an unfortunate catch-22 situation. As a huge fan of animation, it's very tough to find darker, more adult oriented stories and styles in american animation. That stuff is for the most part regulated to comics and graphics novels, which in the end often becomes poorly made live action features. Outside of small independent short film, music videos and film festivals, most animation with mature themes easily accessible to the masses have been all the anime exported from Japan.

And with the recent explosion of anime's popularity, it is only inevitable that a lot of really bad tv animation shows becomes synonomous with anime in some people's minds.
Feature anime films are rarely if ever screened theatrically, and very quickly make there way to dvd, to be lost in the sae of Full Metal Alchemist boxed sets and pushed aside by crazed Naruto fans.
Of course just like western animation, I've seen quite a bit of very bad feature anime as well.. which can alternate from typical slow-paced Japanese storytelling to poor production values - the recent Sky Crawlers was that for me. While the premise may have been interesting, I found the visuals lacking and the characters uncompelling.

I believe nearly all the shows mentioned in this thread thus far have been episodic anime made for TV broadcast.

In terms of animation style and quality, I personally prefer the following (of course it goes without saying that YMMV):

Magnetic Rose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou7QSPNxgqs
The 2d/3d combination works well for me, and the treatment of mood and style appeals to me, as well as the editing.

Perfect Blue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5ymnLAYIeA
I'm sure most people have heard of this one. While I really like the way Kon's use of cuts and editing in this film, the overuse of the same technique in his other films lessens the impact and makes it start to feel like a gimmick.

Kon's TV series, Paranoia agent also has some creepy aspects but animation of course is TV quality.

My favorite Animatrix short, also by my favorite anime director Koji Morimoto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckV-bHHkQY
I love the use of camera angles and camera lenses, despite the film being a 2d film. One thing that Japanese anime has over western animation I think is the better incorporation of camera angles, movement, lenses and traditional cinematography techniques and style into their 2d. Of course maybe it's the awesome draftsmanship skills of the Japanese artists that make this easier.

What I love about Miyazaki's film technically, is that he almost always incorporates one or 2 scenes of full 2d animated moving cameras into his films. The sense of flying thru space, but animated in 2d by hand has a distinct style and feeling that is not often easily replicated in any other medium. The one that always sticks in my mind of course is the animated parallax while moving forward in space, thru the air in Kiki's delivery service.

This post has probably gone on long enough, but I hope this may enlighten those who have given anime no more than a cursory glance and feel that it is no more than big bug-eyed wild hair girls with big boobs, guns and bad stilted, almost cut-out animation. Just like western animation is not all about Disney/Pixar, or slapstick comedy a la Blue Sky/Dreamworks, or that tv merely consists of Spongebob Squarepants animation.
Anime is the Japanese word for "animation" and like all animation, is merely a medium that Japanese storytellers use to tell their stories in whatever style suits their purpose.

Here's another stylistically interesting look from studio 4c:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFOE-sfAmlg

Michael5188
07-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Its Not my "Cause" Anime has a huge & Growing worldwide following without me or any naybobs on CG Society




Cheers

I think you took my wording too seriously, I just meant your argument within this thread. I'm well aware anime is popular...

Geta-ve hit the nail on the head, there's good and bad animation everywhere. It comes down to, do you like the characters, do you like the story. I feel those two things can overcome poor production values (to an extent)

(and I'll definitely check out Xam'd. Although the clips I watched seem to follow the same visual trends people link with anime, if the story is good, I'm sure I'll be addicted to it in no time)

Boone
07-27-2009, 11:05 PM
I also do have to take a jab at anyone who seriously suggests that anime is so much more adventurous, or adult than western animation, or that it appeals to more age groups. I think you must be confusing teen with adult here. Teens are not adults, make something more crude and add more explosions and basically you're hitting your target group there and that's what most anime does just as most western animation does. Western animation appeals to just as wide an age group if not wider, it has to satisfy both parents and children, and then also try to take as large a bite out of that teen market as possible, the writing and dialog tends to be much sharper, and often requires a greater level of sophistication than you might expect. The idea that the shape of the protagonists somehow separates the boys from the men (talking animals versus gundam eh? lol) is ridiculous, anime is tremendously repetitive in themes, storylines and emotional "hooks", it treads the same old paths and is as hackneyed as the vast majority of western animation. For most western kids though it's new and fresh because it's not what they've grown up with. Cliches exist in every market, especially one that's as saturated as anime. Bear in mind that there are only 7 basic storylines in existence and that anime just like western animation uses the same motifs endlessly and that's all you can expect.



I will agree that there is a lot of giant robots/ teenage pilots in anime. Failing that, its class room kids with "fight clubs". Its that kind of thing that has put me off anime in recent years...

But the thing I find laughable is that the most mature animated story we in the west can provide is A Scanner Darkly. Some Anime features I have watched over the years - late at night on BBC2 or Channel 4 - I have forgotten the names, but there have been many with vastly different stories: Grave of the Fire Flies and Roujin-Z, Perfect Blue, Patlabor 1 & 2.

I just wished western animation could be a little more daring and try new things for a change. Its certainly capable of it, but it needs to take the plunge.

Geta-Ve
07-28-2009, 01:10 AM
@foresakendreams:

You can find a lot of great animated sequences withing both Cowboy Bebop and FullMetal Alchemist, but as you say, they ARE TV series. But the story telling in both are above par, in my opinion, and especially the use of music in Cowboy Bebop is quite a defining feature of itself. Though you will have to blame Hiromu Arakawa (manga creator) for the style. :D

Apart from that though you make a lot of great points which echo my sentiments. Good and bad exist in both cartoons and anime.


@Michael5188:

Not sure I noticed which particular trend it follows? I mean, it does have to save money given that it is 1. a made for tv series, and 2. was drawn in HD (this show looks so slick at 720res), but I think overall Xam'd is above average in the animation department. BUT! To each is there own, which is another very important point in the big anime vs/ cartoon debate. haha

^_^

forsakendreams
07-29-2009, 11:38 PM
You can find a lot of great animated sequences withing both Cowboy Bebop and FullMetal Alchemist, but as you say, they ARE TV series. But the story telling in both are above par, in my opinion, and especially the use of music in Cowboy Bebop is quite a defining feature of itself. Though you will have to blame Hiromu Arakawa (manga creator) for the style. :D

Oh, Cowboy Bebop is definitely an old favorite of mine and there are sections where it's quite nicely animated, particularly Spike's hand to hand combat fights, even though a lot of that action is cheated with a lot of after effects style camera work also. The storytelling, mood and world design is great. The design of ships, devices, etc is fairly convincing also.

Full Metal Alchemist I could never get past the character, background and set designs. Smacked too much of Naruto and that style of simplified unbelievability as if someone forgot to dress the set.

But that's the cool thing about mainstream episodic anime, there's a genre, style and story for everyone. You aren't limited to choosing between kiddie fare, teen boy flick, and pre-teen girl princesses. It's like watching any of your popular primetime dramas on ABC, CBS, HBO but animated, with all the freedom animation gives you.

R10k
07-30-2009, 05:07 AM
It's like watching any of your popular primetime dramas on ABC, CBS, HBO but animated, with all the freedom animation gives you.

Yes, except that they're typically full of, and I'll use the scientific term here- 'wierd crap'.

Personal opinion: I think anime plotlines suck. Seriously. I havent seen a huge amount of anime, but every movie or episode I've seen has been filled with terrible writing, and even worse plotlines. Yes, even the ones anime fans harp on about as being amazing. But hey, that's just me! Here's a video (http://www.videosift.com/video/Frenching-in-Japan) to liven up this thread. Carry on ;)

alben
07-30-2009, 06:06 AM
You cannot mention anime without talking about Evangelion. There is also the recent movies done by studio 4C (mind game & tekkon kinkreet). I've just mentioned a very small amount. There are plenty of great and classic animes you probably havent seen before.

Ex: Saint Seiya also known as the knight of the zodiac was produced and shown in asia back in 1989. Not until 2003 was this show shown in America.

Animation wise, if you actually look at the better ones, the animation techniques is all there.

Geta-Ve
07-30-2009, 04:55 PM
Yes, except that they're typically full of, and I'll use the scientific term here- 'wierd crap'.

Personal opinion: I think anime plotlines suck. Seriously. I havent seen a huge amount of anime, but every movie or episode I've seen has been filled with terrible writing, and even worse plotlines. Yes, even the ones anime fans harp on about as being amazing. But hey, that's just me! Here's a video (http://www.videosift.com/video/Frenching-in-Japan) to liven up this thread. Carry on ;)

You know, I always wonder how people can sit there and generalize about a subject they clearly have no knowledge of, or any interest in.

@forsakendreams:

FMA is just not your 'style' eh? Shame as the story is one of, at least, in my opinion, the better ones, not too deep, but definitely emotional.

But! Like you say there is something for everyone (that wants to like it that is) :D

Seraca
07-30-2009, 06:51 PM
You know, I always wonder how people can sit there and generalize about a subject they clearly have no knowledge of, or any interest in.

:D

Thats the nature of the internet mate
the "Democratization" of ignorance.




Cheers

theflash
07-31-2009, 01:05 AM
Nothing against people not liking Anime, if they say it's just not my style or taste or the way it's presented. But generalizing that anime is crap is not mature. Because then one means that I like crap if I like Anime.

I am huge fan of quite a few anime shows, even if I get irritated with some episodes of just slideshows. But, that halo trailer didn't excite me much, mainly because I have never played halo.

Dimitree
07-31-2009, 02:30 AM
Every time i see something like "Tom and Jerry" being called Anime i get one month of Severe Diareah ...
...............................................................

R10k
07-31-2009, 03:58 AM
You know, I always wonder how people can sit there and generalize about a subject they clearly have no knowledge of, or any interest in.

Gee, I don't know... possibly because people are allowed to have opinions based on perceptions? How much knowledge about a subject should someone have before being able to say something? 20% of all available knowledge? 75%? How much interest should they have?

But generalizing that anime is crap is not mature. Because then one means that I like crap if I like Anime.

Heavens forbid someone would like something that's crap! Let's all accept everything that's made as legendary, so everyone on the planet can feel good about themselves. Anyway, I said it was full of weird crap, not that it was all crap. I mentioned that because someone was drawing a (rather extreme) parallel to western primetime tv shows. Whether or not you like anime and all that goes with it, I'd argue that if popular primetime tv shows were filled with similar content to what a lot of anime films have, the 'crap' label would be applied by the average person often.

Geta-Ve
07-31-2009, 02:19 PM
Right, however, what you said was that anime was

typically full of, and I'll use the scientific term here- 'wierd crap'.

How did you come up with this 'opinion'. Considering that if you are using the word 'typically' you are representing anime as a whole, meaning that, therefore, you have quite a VAST knowledge of anime and the shows in which the medium encompasses.

Then take in to consideration, that you yourself also stated

I havent seen a huge amount of anime,


You trying to generalize anime as typically ANYTHING is not an opinion based on perception it is a perception based on willful ignorance. You choose not to learn anything about the topic in which you criticize.

leigh
07-31-2009, 02:29 PM
Knock off this bickering, please. If you want to argue about anime, do it somewhere else. This thread is for discussion about the Halo anime, not a pointless bitchfest about whether or not anime is crap.

R10k
07-31-2009, 03:07 PM
No worries, leigh :wavey:

I will finish by saying- decently argued Geta-Ve. You're right that I shouldn't have used the word 'typically'. That said, an opinion based on perception can be one born from willful ignorance.

CGTalk Moderation
07-31-2009, 03:08 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.