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ThreeDBFX
07-30-2003, 02:46 AM
Hey All,

I just got home from the show, and let me tell you, I have seen the light.

LW has blown me away once again, but this time it's almost to hard to even believe at times...but what I saw was real.

Softbody and hardbody dynamics being calculated in real time!
Setup an IK rig for a character in under 2 minutes without ever opening a new panel (all right clicking).
Much improved IK and FK system.
IK and FK can be switched on a frame by frame basis.
Amazing timeline features, i.e. being able to delete multiple keyframes at one time, copying and pasting keys, some really cool keyframe/timeline features...too many to explain properly.
The hardbody & softbody demos Proton was giving were insane! I almost passed out from the excitement. For example he took an object made up of several parts but merged down to 1 layer in modeler. Then he applied a hardbody node to the model, and using a collision object and 2 keyframes, he smashed the model into pieces. Then he added a ground plane, and made that c collision object and whalla! the parts bounced off the gound as they would with real physics.

There is way to much to write here now. I have to run, but I will try to write more later on tonight. In the meantime, all those who were worried about the future of Lightwave, I can tell you based on what I saw today that your worries can be safely put to rest! :beer:

More to come.

Muad'dib
07-30-2003, 02:57 AM
... after months of speculation, lost hair & a bit of biffo we can all finally absorb this new info, start to chill a bit and get back to what's important - creating :)

milqman
07-30-2003, 03:00 AM
dude... I totally know what you mean.

Newtek met my expectations and exceeded them beyond anything I ever imagined.

Mannnn! SO SWEET!

I think one of my favorite parts was seeing a wind effector affect a character's bones.

ronaldomiranda
07-30-2003, 03:08 AM
Thanx for share this info mate!

NanoGator
07-30-2003, 03:18 AM
I gotta agree, it was damn cool. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "the glass is half empty" people complaining about features it doesn't have.

Oh well.

Newtek's damn close to getting my $500 upgrade.

pblacklock
07-30-2003, 03:36 AM
drove to my friend and borrowed, okay i stole his hi speed connection so i could watch the livestream feed.

i'm glad i did. i like that particle effect point by point control, that will definitely come in handy instead of guessing.

for once ik/fk doesn't need hours of sitting at the computer to operate.


thanks NT

Memodin
07-30-2003, 03:49 AM
isn't there any photos yet?

And how was the new look? Any changes form the "first sight"?

I understand that there are a lot of improvements but not a big, radical innovation.

Still, Lets continue to wait..:annoyed:

minus
07-30-2003, 04:31 AM
Yup Yup... I'm not dissapointed by what I saw... the dynamics were great / fast / and easy to set up it seems. -- Character rigging.... hell even Proton can do it now! :scream: j/k.

NanoGator
07-30-2003, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Memodin
isn't there any photos yet?

And how was the new look? Any changes form the "first sight"?

I understand that there are a lot of improvements but not a big, radical innovation.

Still, Lets continue to wait..:annoyed:

Couldn't really tell. The streaming video wasn't that clear. It was dark. Not a big fan of that. I liked one or two of the concepts I saw in another thread.

One of the teasers I saw looked just like Lw7. Good enough for me.

milqman
07-30-2003, 05:16 AM
yeah it looks more like the first concept mockup posted... dark buttons... but its too small for me to see.

Not a fan of that look :thumbsdow

But the rest of LW8 looks sweeet!

l-a-akira
07-30-2003, 06:20 AM
The new animation tools look really awesome from what I saw proton demoing at the show and the party. I NEED ONE NOW! :)

-JT-
07-30-2003, 06:37 AM
Lightwave 8 doesn't rock for me.
I bought lightwave 7.5 knowing that there would be a free upgrade to lightwave 8.
But i'm a bit disapointed with Lightwave 8, edge modeling and ngon subdivs have been a must for a while now, it can't be that hard to do for 3d developpers.
Hard body dynamics, particles, lscript improvements are useless to most people.
And i also wished the radiosity would be faster (and the antialiasing).
I'll wait until i try Lightwave 8, maybe some of the new features are nice, the character improvements maybe (although acs4 already does the job...).

:shrug:
I didn't realize that the whole lux/nt story was going to have such consequences.
Lightwave is a nice software, let's hope Lightwave 8.x come soon with the needed improvements.

grafikdon
07-30-2003, 08:40 AM
What the....hard/soft body dynamics in real time? In that case I can't wait for my LW 8 to ship, UPS ya heard!? This new inprovement will surely lengthen my life span because I was wondering ' How the heck do I animate a short movie where 89% of the shots need motion designer? Heck my PC screams blue murder when I hit start and the calculation sucks' Now that is obviously one nightmare down and ummmm...several to go. How about cell shader that reacts to light and receives shadows? I am tired of the preview, how about real time preview, anyone? Too much to ask, no?

nuff said.

Shade01
07-30-2003, 08:45 AM
What the....hard/soft body dynamics in real time?

I'm dubious about that real time part. They were using a Boxx Opteron based system. Damn near anything will be realtime on that.

When I start using IK and messing with bones everything starts to chug on my machine and I expect the same from OGL particles and dynamics.

takkun
07-30-2003, 08:49 AM
It might not be real time on all computers but it's helluva lot faster then it was before.

Chagidiel
07-30-2003, 09:12 AM
Really real time or not... it seems promising nevertheless. Faster=Better=Me happy! I am not switching package anyway.

Now I just wish them dudes operating CGTalk could bring that bouncy smiley back :D

:bounce: :bounce: :doublebounce:


thx for the happy share ThreeDBFX

Shade01
07-30-2003, 09:14 AM
It might not be real time on all computers but it's helluva lot faster then it was before.

Well that's certainly good to hear.

Krix
07-30-2003, 10:07 AM
Hi guys,

There is an other topic, blaming on the limitation of the new undo
feature...

I don't like to say that, but I simply get used to the life without undo. Undo makes your work more comfie, but it is not something what you cannot live without it. Since I accepted there is no undo in Layout...I just didn't want to use it. There is no really action what u cannot correct, or undone.

Unfortunatelly, it seems that there is a hard limitation in the code. Just remember that multiple undo didn't came in when they released the LW6 and said than rewrote the whole application.
Obviously they didn't rewrite the whole...so history, and real undo won't come untill they really rewrite the source code of the Layout. And who knows when it is going to happen...

The new bone stuff, and that it reacts to dynamics, turned me on much more. Point level animation is cool too, and hopefully works well in real production environment as the all other new features.
I didn't expect a miracle, like an architecture change...so I should say if the new tools working fine...it is good, and I'm totally satisfied. Fast bone deformation, IK, dynamics...etc. are ten times more important. And it seems we are going to get those.


cheers,

Krix

TRick
07-30-2003, 10:44 AM
Well, it seems that everything that has been shown (LW,MODO...) really ROCKS (except for MAX6 maybe)

I certainly will get me [8]....

About the UNDO: the last UNDO thing they showed when setting up the lights and changing them all at once to spotlights, only could UNDO the transformations, NOT the whole setup....so I guess it is the same UNDO as we have now but for 40 actions...

If this is NOT true, just tell me...

pigwater
07-30-2003, 11:26 AM
I'm dubious about that real time part. They were using a Boxx Opteron based system. Damn near anything will be realtime on that.

anandtech did a recent test on the opteron performance with lightwave against the comparable amd xp's ...here (http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1818&p=11)

while these were for rendering , it still shows that the opteron is not that far of a jump in speed (yet)

Jimzip
07-30-2003, 12:35 PM
Oh so happy!!
I can't wait to upgrade!


Jimzip :D

Nemoid
07-30-2003, 01:35 PM
Newtek is doing good!

this presentation of Lw[8] is great right now, and shows cool features, but I raelly think the best will cime with 8.x versions.
simply Nt had not time to do all was needed I think, to be prepared for Siggraph so focused on the lacks of the software instead of the whole app. :buttrock:

then I think they will implement a lot of new features, and also will start to rewrite Lw for real. :drool:

we'll have to wait.

Miyazaki
07-30-2003, 01:59 PM
I´m happy. LW8 offers more than I ever expected so far. But that doesn`t mean NT should stop development now;)

aurora
07-30-2003, 03:16 PM
From what I have seen from the stream-in I'm very psyched. True Boxx can run anything VERY quickly I'll take any speed increase and praise the makers without complaint!! The redesign of so many animating elements is a fantastic step forward and is where their production needs to concentrate. Its still recognized that LW is thee defacto modeling app. For you n-gon whinners (granted I complain ever now and then myself when I have a few that need fixed) the 3-4 sided polygon requirment is a feature not a crux. Eventually, unless you are playing with nurbs/splines, all polys need reduced. Making you do this instead of the app means you get what you are after and not headed for strange unexplainable results. I'll admit I would love to have edge tools. I have been spoiled by both n-gons and edge tools in Maya. But prefer LW's stance regardless.
I believe that these and many of the changes we have yet to hear/see are a great move forward and that hopefully a rewrite will be easier and maybe bypassed by some of these new directions. Trust me the programmers deserve more respect and cheers then they get. Some of their code base must be ancient compared to todays architecture and that makes it extremely hard to work with sometimes.
Three cheers to the developers:applause: :applause: :applause:

DaveW
07-30-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by aurora
For you n-gon whinners (granted I complain ever now and then myself when I have a few that need fixed) the 3-4 sided polygon requirment is a feature not a crux. Eventually, unless you are playing with nurbs/splines, all polys need reduced. Making you do this instead of the app means you get what you are after and not headed for strange unexplainable results.



That is complete bullshit.

I'm hoping edges and n-gons make their way into one of the 8.x releases if not 8.0. I'm very happy with the Layout improvements.

Joril
07-30-2003, 04:37 PM
any sight of a dopesheet yet?

Limbus
07-30-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by aurora
[B] For you n-gon whinners (granted I complain ever now and then myself when I have a few that need fixed) the 3-4 sided polygon requirment is a feature not a crux. Eventually, unless you are playing with nurbs/splines, all polys need reduced. Making you do this instead of the app means you get what you are after and not headed for strange unexplainable results. /B]

What is wrong in having n-gons if I use them on Sub-D's that are not going to be deformed???

Florian

ThreeDBFX
07-30-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by -JT-
Lightwave 8 doesn't rock for me.
I bought lightwave 7.5 knowing that there would be a free upgrade to lightwave 8.
But i'm a bit disapointed with Lightwave 8, edge modeling and ngon subdivs have been a must for a while now, it can't be that hard to do for 3d developpers.
Hard body dynamics, particles, lscript improvements are useless to most people.
And i also wished the radiosity would be faster (and the antialiasing).
I'll wait until i try Lightwave 8, maybe some of the new features are nice, the character improvements maybe (although acs4 already does the job...).

:shrug:
I didn't realize that the whole lux/nt story was going to have such consequences.
Lightwave is a nice software, let's hope Lightwave 8.x come soon with the needed improvements.

What the hell are you talking about? "Hard body dynamics, particles, lscript improvements are useless to most people." I hope you now realize that that statement is total BS. First of all I know some amaizing modelers that have never complained about what Modeler can accomplish, and they have created some of the best models I've ever seen. I'm not just talking for fun here, these guys work for major FX houses, creating models for film and TV alike. People will still agree that LW's modeler is one the best around...and I've never seen something that can't be done in it.

That part about the dynamics being usless to most people. How many animators do you know? Maya has been able to do things like this for a while. If Newtek is to stay in the game here than these are issues that need to be addressed. I'm an animtor, and I'm stoked that I'll be able to do things in LW that I had to run over to Maya to do in the past. Bone Dynamics are going to be very, very usefull to animators as well as soft and hardbody dynamics. So before you make a comment like that, you shoul'd do some reading, and see how many people are looking forward to these features.

It's amaizing that people are already compaining about LW 8, and it's not even shipped yet. How many studios using LW are winning awards for their work and complaining like this? I don't think that many, if any at all. A programm will never do 100% of what we want it to do. That's where artistic ability and talent come in. I don't care if you're using Maya, Softimage, Houdini, Lightwave, etc... If you suck, you suck! Look at what this guy is doing at www.rustboy.com with $300.00 software! He rocks! Look at Children of Dune. I know one of the animators that worked on that....the whole movie was done in LW, nothing else (3D that is). So stop bitchen about that LW 8 doesn't have and practice, practice, practice to make LW what it can be!

Amen!

-JT-
07-31-2003, 05:12 AM
Cool down, people are too passionate around here, i said "i'm a bit disapointed with lightwave 8", i know some people and studios did great stuff even with previous versions of lightwave, some people even do great stuff with blender, wings etc.. but does this mean you can't evolve and make your work easier ?
I "personnaly" am unsatisfied with the new features, i do like lightwave but if i had known lightwave 8 was going to be this, i would maybe have considered other options.

milqman
07-31-2003, 05:15 AM
JT- wait till they unveil the point releases

LW8 is not the FINAL lw8. Plus they havn't revealed EVERYTHING about lw8 yet.

SIGGRAPH was a preview of an early product. they still have quite a few months to add stuff and i doubt they are just sitting around.
:)

SplineGod
07-31-2003, 07:24 AM
Thanks Milqman, very good observations. :)
What is being shown at Siggraph is not in any way, shape or form, the final of 8.0. Its ALL preliminary. What has been shown is the BEGINNING of what is on the way, not the end. What Ive seen in LW8 at this stage is incredible. I dont think Ive seriously been more excited about LW then now. My brain is hurting trying to take it all in. Newtek has said that LW 8 will be shipping BY the 4th quarter and its true. There are a lot more things in the works that were not shown both for Layout AND Modeler for many reasons. The features that wont make it in 8.0 will be seen in incremental releases. These are exciting times people. I for one, am VERY happy with my investment in Lightwave. :)

grafikdon
07-31-2003, 09:49 AM
[QUOTE]
What the hell are you talking about? "Hard body dynamics, particles, lscript improvements are useless to most people." I hope you now realize that that statement is total BS. First of all I know some amaizing modelers that have never complained about what Modeler can accomplish, and they have created some of the best models I've ever seen. I'm not just talking for fun here, these guys work for major FX houses, creating models for film and TV alike. People will still agree that LW's modeler is one the best around...and I've never seen something that can't be done in it.




Well like you said later, everyone has something they wish to see improved in LW. I do not have a single complaint about the modeler but since I am working on a short where 89% of the shots require motion designer a speedy MD won't be too much to ask. This was taking a drastic toll on my PC and my mentality but I wouldn't change the costumes just to avoid MD, instead I was like you said trying to find a better way( and I think there is and I am not talking about plug ins here) So, soft body/hard body dynamics isn't useless to most people afterall.
I know a lot of people come up with pointless complaint against LW, not that LW is perfect (just as any app. has its fair share of imperfection) but these people will seek solace in a plug-in the moment they run into the slightest problem, what the heck...some people even use plug-in for point creation.

Now that I have finished flapping my lid (I thought I was typing and not talking?) lemme throw my own whine in the mix. A real time preview is very essential to animators (me) because it is pointless to 'make a preview' and then render. Pointless. Annoyingly time consuming.

BTW...why would it take NT 2-3 weeks to ship my LW8 from California to New York? Beats my imagination.

grafikdon
07-31-2003, 10:03 AM
Oh...I forgot to mention that was Brian Taylor, he did the 'Rustboy' with Carrara studio, my first 3D app back in 2002. It was a good app. with nice render engine. I switched to LW because back in 2002 it had no bones.

TRick
07-31-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
These are exciting times people. I for one, am VERY happy with my investment in Lightwave. :)

Since NT is the ONLY one that does NOT deliver vaporware (I'm using it NOW), and what I've seen hurts my head too, this will certainly be the one that I put my bets on. As far as M&M (Messiah&Modo) is concerned think of it as: they have flawless LW-import/export; I can not think of a better reason to put YOUR bets on LW TOO !!!!! As I'm using FormZ for arch.modelling, Lightscape for interior rendering, it may also be possible that I use Messiah for character animation and Modo for character modelling: but generally LW offers the best combination in ONE package. There HAS BEEN a DIP, but hey...I have them too....and NOT from using 3D software !!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

colkai
07-31-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Thanks Milqman, very good observations.
What is being shown at Siggraph is not in any way, shape or form, the final of 8.0. Its ALL preliminary. What has been shown is the BEGINNING of what is on the way, not the end. What Ive seen in LW8 at this stage is incredible. I dont think Ive seriously been more excited about LW then now.
SNIPPED
These are exciting times people. I for one, am VERY happy with my investment in Lightwave.

Larry,
You've said, more than once, Lee has said it, Proton has said it. I've been trying to spread the good word as much as possible, yet, for some reason, folks just don't get it.

Personally I'm stoked over how LW8 is shaping up, as you say, these are the 'pre-release' versions - what dreams may come? ;)

Another good thing, I ordered the LW8/DFX+ package last week, my wife just e-mailed me to say a "very heavy package" arrived for me today!
Boy - I can't wait !! :D
-Colkai

p.s. - Was mightly pi**ed off last night - stayed up to watch your segement (10:30pm in UK) - damn stream was jerky as heck! -
Was really looking forward to seeing what you did - tell Deuce and Proton they are doing a hell of a job too!

mg3d
07-31-2003, 01:46 PM
can anyone give a hint wether or not there will be EDGE TOOLS in lw8's modeler?

-mG

aurora
07-31-2003, 02:58 PM
It was mentioned by adrencg in his thread that Everything has an envelope now. Can somebody please confirm this. Please, please, please. That would be a huge, major, gigantic addition that would make the update worthwhile to alone. But then I updated before any word of what LW8 had. Faith, hope, and patience always provides the best Wave to ride!!!

Tudor
07-31-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by aurora
It was mentioned by adrencg in his thread that Everything has an envelope now.

Even the quit button?! :)
That would be great. Set it to 5 minutes and finally you can say 'just 5 more minutes, without it stretching to 15 minutes or even an hour. My girlfriend would be overjoyed :D

aurora
07-31-2003, 03:20 PM
Even the quit button?!
That would be fun. Imagine putting a gradient on that. First your motions die out, then the camera moves, next the texture, as the last of your objects fade the lights dim and off goes Layout. Now that would be fun to watch a newbie react to LOL:beer:

pblacklock
07-31-2003, 03:25 PM
as soon as the wife fells asleep then Lightwave automatically reboots with your last saved session while you tip toe downstairs to work till the sun comes up. :D

ottoatom
07-31-2003, 04:06 PM
I have to agree in some statements -JT- made about Lightwave, even if they where a little bit raw. Lw6 made a huge advance regarding render with radiosity option, but since then, the upgrades haven't been significal comparing to other softwares... When Max (or VIZ or Both I'm not sure) incorporated lightscape into their render solution , they made the move to what many 3d designers needed.. Please understand I'm not telling max is better than LW lol... these are hard times in CGTALK community, and one would easily be mistaken to a witch or a communist lol...

That is a statement that I specially address to ThreeDBFX (the crits about LW I mean): When someone buys a 3d app, it's not necessary to be an animator.. I for once use Lw mostly to my architectural previs and rarely use all the "exciting-mind boggling-orgasmic..." new animation features... maybe I'm not using my 3d app properly.. Maybe I should give my copy to someone who really needs it ... but for now, 3d design is what I do with lighwave. And I KNOW (and I don’t have to know everyone in the entire 3d community) I'm not the only one that’s doing exactly that... even the "small minority" for you animators has the right to be heard ;) lol.

What I want in lightwave:
-better radiosity with more controls
-Faster Radiosity
-Interactive radiosity: that is, seeing in layout the radiosity solution. I do it with bake illumination but that takes just too much time.
-Render possibility in Modeler: the surface panel in modeler was great guys, but without the ability to view the result of what we are texturing, it really isn’t that useful…
-better integration between modeler and layout: each time I change the bone setting I have to reload the object in layout for it to change, but since it's a feature I dont use much, I maybe mistaken.
-undo in layout (I dont care how much you prontons and splinegods guys dont need it, I for one just think it is complete nonsense not having a undo in layout...).
-render in all viewports: with isometric, parallel, orthographic possibilities of render
-better control in modeler: I started with autocad, and for me Modeler was like to be released out of jail lol.. but there is one thing I regret from autocad: precision. Take examples from apps like formZ or Rhino (for the precision)…
- better Lighting control: the ability to control light in realworld Lux besides that xxx% arbitrary nonsence… I mean, 100% of what? Of a 50 watts bulb? Of a 300 watt halogen light? Of a red giant 600 million Km from earth?...

You have to realize that lightwave is not only used in character or whatever animation purposes. There are many architectural/desing studios that use it and they don’t care if you can now explode a starship interactively…

I got frustrated when I read the new features of this pre-LW8... Animation is not the only lacking part of lightwave.. LW is falling behind in other areas also.. I HOPE these will be available in LW8... I choose lightwave because it had the better/faster rendering in all the 3d packages, and that was what I needed. I hope that regarding the competitive products, it still will be.

adrencg
07-31-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by ottoatom

You have to realize that lightwave is not only used in character or whatever animation purposes. There are many architectural/desing studios that use it and they don’t care if you can now explode a starship interactively…

I got frustrated when I read the new features of this pre-LW8... Animation is not the only lacking part of lightwave.. LW is falling behind in other areas also.. I HOPE these will be available in LW8... I choose lightwave because it had the better/faster rendering in all the 3d packages, and that was what I needed. I hope that regarding the competitive products, it still will be.

You think maybe you should be looking at some other software then?

Mike

ThreeDBFX
07-31-2003, 08:55 PM
All I'm saying is, LW has stepped into the light so to speak.

Yeah, LW hasn't always been the best app for certain things, but what app will do everything you want at the touch of a button? NONE! Lightwave has come thru for me time and time again, and although I have had to jump to other apps sometimes for specific needs, it's still my primary app. It's a workhourse!

My point is, Talented artists (and Lightwave) have been producing amaizing work for TV, Film, Games, etc... for quite a while now. Now, we're looking at the next generation of this tried and true application and what we're seeing is a major breakthough. Remember what is being shown at SIGGRAPH is only a portion of what the actual release will contain. It bugs me that people already complain about what they think will, or will not be in this release. Yes LW has had a lot of catching up to do, when compared to other apps, but if you compare all the major apps on the market I'll bet you'll find that no one single app can do it all. That's where talent and skill come in, which was my point to mentioning Rust Boy. A major mission Newtek had with this release, was work flow. It all starts there, and if you had a chance to see how the workflow has been greatly imporved, that should be enough to get you excited about this release. I'm sure as smaller upgrades are released, i.e. 8.x, 8.xx then even more greatness will come! What is being shown at SIGGRAPH no matter how little, is amazing, and I'm sure that long-time LW users are pretty excited at what is being shown.


Be Patient! Good things come to those who wait.

aurora
07-31-2003, 09:16 PM
It bares repeating.
Yeah, LW hasn't always been the best app for certain things, but what app will do everything you want at the touch of a button? NONE! Lightwave has come thru for me time and time again, and although I have had to jump to other apps sometimes for specific needs, it's still my primary app. It's a workhourse!

If somebody can show me something at Siggraph, or anyplace else, that does everything for everybody I'll fly out there right now and buy it and I'm sure 90% of us all would!

geoff3dnz
07-31-2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by ottoatom

What I want in lightwave:
...
-Interactive radiosity: that is, seeing in layout the radiosity solution. I do it with bake illumination but that takes just too much time.
:) Somehow I don't think that's likely. Radiosity, by nature, is computationally intense, and slow.

ottoatom
08-01-2003, 12:50 AM
geoff3dnz : Have you tried 3dmax5/viz4 ? They can do it. Not the pretty final look of radiosity but a good approach to it.. an interactive one :)

adrencg I dont want to switch to 3dmax/viz, I pretty much hate them, but when it comes to previz I do switch to them... maybe it's me who cant work with LW but when I see that I managed to do a radiosity render in 1/10 of the time I would in Lightwave and with better results (not in image quality, In getting the illumination factor I wanted), that I could "walk" in it with the radiosity baked to the model, It sure makes me think twice.. I didn’t know MAX at all, and I'm using LW for years now! Tell me there is a hidden button somewhere please do!! I cant stand MAX!!! ;) ...I love LW, specially it's modeler. But please, I'm tired of hearing the same excuse: talented guys can do it... I mean, If Brian Taylor had started with Maya or whatever instead of infiniD (not carrara), he would have maybe finished his short... or even maybe made a better one than the one he is doing? who knows?(and yes I do admire the guy! his work is inspiring by the least) He's he a talented guy for pushing his app to the limit? No he's a talented guy for making art despite the animation package he's using.

I'm not trying to start an aggressive debate here (especially a LW vs MAX one). I know how these ones can be bloody ;)... I just would like LW to get better in all directions. I read in another debate that Lw was not going to upgrade its rendering processor... This makes me really worried...

This is all speculation and we should wait for the final version to talk about it, but economics are everyday factors, and when we invest in something we dont want to be loosing money. My investment is still what it was: best render quality at reasonable price. (an upgrade is cheaper than a full version and time is money, the time I would spend in learning the app).

geoff3dnz
08-01-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by ottoatom
geoff3dnz : Have you tried 3dmax5/viz4 ? They can do it. Not the pretty final look of radiosity but a good approach to it.. an interactive one :)
No, I haven't seen 3dmax5/viz4 do interactive radiosity - I stand corrected!I just would like LW to get better in all directions. I read in another debate that Lw was not going to upgrade its rendering processor... This makes me really worried... It's been stated that for the initial 8.0 release they're not focusing on the renderer. But they're planning on incremental .x releases that will address more and more issues - I assume the modeler, render engine etc. Hopefully it'll all come together quite nicely. :)

Krix
08-01-2003, 05:04 PM
Hi guys,

Sorry if I ask something what discussed long time ago...just didn't find about that. So, there was that monkey "chain" object or something like that. I guess in the object's first layer, there was a two sided poly chain (?) and in the second layer there were the monkeys...and William was deforming the monkeys position with the polychain??? It looked cool, but didn't really get it what was it about.

Could somebody explain it to me please?

Thank you!

Krix

zaam
08-01-2003, 05:32 PM
It really looked simple. There was a chain of hanging monkeys (4 or5) composed of a SINGLE OBJECT. A jointed spline was attatched to the monkey object, then deformed using the dynamics system. Monkey see, monkey do.

ThreeDBFX
08-01-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Krix
Hi guys,

Sorry if I ask something what discussed long time ago...just didn't find about that. So, there was that monkey "chain" object or something like that. I guess in the object's first layer, there was a two sided poly chain (?) and in the second layer there were the monkeys...and William was deforming the monkeys position with the polychain??? It looked cool, but didn't really get it what was it about.

Could somebody explain it to me please?

Thank you!

Krix

Krix,

He was demonstrating hardbody dynamics. The monkies were serparate pieces of gemoetry that were merged to one layer in modeler. The 2 point poly chain was being used as a deformer. He applied some harbody dynamic node to the monkey object basically telling it to use the chain as a deformer...I don't recall exactly what he did right down to every step, but that's the jist of it. It was demonstrating the new dynamics in LW 8.

Hope that helps a little, I'm sure there are people here who can explain better than me...:beer:

Cheers

Nemoid
08-01-2003, 07:08 PM
Ok, ottoatom, you are right with your requests. Lw need quite
all of these enhancements.

but you and many others too have to understand that Newtek needs some time, to work on Lw. Now the situation is finally clear for Newtek . they own completely the code of Lw and so can work very well in the future.

I dunno if they will work on the architectural modelling lighting and rendering features, but considering that a lot of users use Lw for this I think they will do something in this field too. :)

ottoatom
08-01-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Nemoid
I dunno if they will work on the architectural modelling lighting and rendering features, but considering that a lot of users use Lw for this I think they will do something in this field too. :)

Music to my ears... :)

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