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Khare
07-18-2009, 11:49 AM
Hey guys, I'm relatively new to the forum and to CG animation in general, having taken a 2 year course in maya I have figuired out that I want to progress with animation. That is why I'm going back to the basics to try to get a better grasp of it so I can get myself a foundation to build on! I haven't been around this forum much anymore but it seems like an awesome place to get critique and tips on your work!

About the Animation:
I decided to try to work on some weight animations while trying to figuire out a decent workflow for myself, it sure ain't easy, but at least it's coming along a lot better than it used to! (Yes, I've been worse:D). So I've tried to animate a fellow doing some hangups. Would love it if you guys could take a look and give me some critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YatUekWbwPc

Rig and Model provided by Kjetil H. Kulander (www.mrmotion.net (http://www.mrmotion.net))

EDIT: I realized it's hard to see anything clearly from that angle so I'm uploading another playblast to youtube right now.

New Angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWiTIvL9avo

Thanks for reading,
Khare.

Khare
07-19-2009, 12:49 AM
Hey guys, I've been working some more on my animation test and fixed some stuff that didn't look to well aswell as adding some animation on the head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjKB9LNAyNM

Thanks for reading.
Khare

Jero3D
07-19-2009, 02:53 AM
Hey Khare! Your animation is looking really cool!! There is something I noticed the first time I saw it and it's that the hands are on the wrong position. Here is a picture that shows how they go:

http://www.rutinasentrenamiento.com/imagenes/2-traccion-dominadas-barra-fija-agarre-estrecho-supinacion.jpg

If you do that change, you will have to change a lot of things. For instance, the body will have to be under the bar, and by doing that you might need to change most of your keys. Thats difficult to do after the polishing, but if you have the blocking, you can try it. Another thing is that the last time he goes up, when he is making a lot of strenght, suddenly, his head rotates back, and that rotation happens too quickly. It looks as if you set the starting key of the rotation in the middle of the last time he goes up and finished it also there. You could move the starting key to the moment where he starts going up, because right now it's rotating too fast if you compare it with the rest of the body at that moment. Also, at the end there is a strange rotation in the arms.
The rest is really good, I would maybe add some vibration on the arms when he is going up at the moment he is doing a lot of strenght :P

I hope this was useful!!

Good luck,

Jero

Khare
07-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Hey Jero! Thanks a lot for taking the time to critique my animation! Oh and I just realized that I'm not doing hangups, I'm doing pull ups! Sorry about that mixup. Here's a pic of the motion I'm trying to create: http://www.crossfiteastside.com/uploaded_images/sophie.first.pullup-725903.jpg

I've done some more work and fixed some of the things you talked about in your post, aswell as adding some leg animation. I still have some work to do tweaking curves and stuff, so before I go into that I wanted to post it here to get some more feedback :).. Thanks a bunch!

New version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3A911I32Q4

Khare

zimmernwuya
07-19-2009, 04:03 PM
study middle!!

Khare
07-19-2009, 04:09 PM
study middle!!

Hi! Could you be more specific? :).. Do you mean the middle of the whole animation, the middle of each pull up? Thanks!

Khare

PinkSherbet
07-20-2009, 05:12 AM
Hihi,

Just my thoughts... I am not very good in pull up bars myself, but i feel that the nice inverted C you made at the end is not too relistic. I think I may have strain my back if i really do a inverted C. If I am struggling to pull myself up the bar, my legs will push forward. Like i am trying to find a wall infront to help push me up. You can try lifting the knee up if you dun want too big an action.

Here is a vid on, you can use as reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8mOQFouVGM

When he goes up, his knees will move forward. At the end, you can see he is struggling a little n his leg pushes forward.

Hope it helps ;)

Khare
07-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Hihi,

Just my thoughts... I am not very good in pull up bars myself, but i feel that the nice inverted C you made at the end is not too relistic. I think I may have strain my back if i really do a inverted C. If I am struggling to pull myself up the bar, my legs will push forward. Like i am trying to find a wall infront to help push me up. You can try lifting the knee up if you dun want too big an action.

Here is a vid on, you can use as reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8mOQFouVGM

When he goes up, his knees will move forward. At the end, you can see he is struggling a little n his leg pushes forward.

Hope it helps ;)

Hey PinkSherbet, you are totally right, I did feel it's very exagerrated and although I'm not aiming for 100% realism I still want it to be believeable and it's probably over the top!

The video you linked is great reference, but it's different from the motion I'm creating, if you look at the picture I posted a few posts up I'm animating pull ups with the hands facing towards the character, and even though it's a slight difference, the two create a bit different motion in the body. About the legs, I was in the gym on friday, and I was testing some stuff out. I usually keep my legs crossed behind my back and restrained to balance myself, but I felt that wouldn't add much to the animation.
So I tested pull ups with my legs just dangling and tried recreating that motion (legs behind to balance, then swinging out when the balance shift comes on top when you are over the bar and then in an arc back down). It was just more fun to play with overlaps and followthrough than keeping the legs almost motionless in a restrained position, but I'm gonna take a look at it when I'm home from work!

Thanks for replying!
Khare

MikaelPersson
07-20-2009, 04:18 PM
It looks like you can animate. But I think you should have a look at some reference.
Having your arms/elbows in that position looks almost impossible. Doing non-realistic things is one thing, but still it has to be believable in some way.
Think about your centre of gravity too. The body is about 30 cm out away from the bar/hands. Is it even possible to do chin-ups that way?

Can you film yourself doing the motion you have animated?

I hope it doesn't sound too harsh...

Khare
07-20-2009, 08:04 PM
It looks like you can animate. But I think you should have a look at some reference.
Having your arms/elbows in that position looks almost impossible. Doing non-realistic things is one thing, but still it has to be believable in some way.
Think about your centre of gravity too. The body is about 30 cm out away from the bar/hands. Is it even possible to do chin-ups that way?

Can you film yourself doing the motion you have animated?

I hope it doesn't sound too harsh...

Hey Mikael! I totally agree with you, I just sat at home and I wanted to animate, earlier that day I had gone to the gym and I felt out how my body moved during a pull up so I did some veeeery quick and rough thumbnails before starting. I should have looked at some reference material since I unfortunatly can't film myself atm. But I've gone over some now and done some improvements. I fixed the elbows, they should be more in line with reality now. I added some wobble in them aswell to accomodate the last pull. Also brought the character in a little bit on the last pull so he's not to far away from the bar, and toned down the inverted C.

http://www.filefront.com/14084359/Weight_TrainingExcercise_16072009_9.avi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qt33dv6Y3Q

Youtube and Filefront, whatever you prefer:)

EDIT: Used some reference from the last few seconds of this youtube movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHZ8Kjq4P9k
- His legs are restrained as opposed to mine, but as I said earlier I think that makes a really boring animation. I still haven't decided weather or not I'm gonna redo the legs.

Oh and it wasn't to harsh at all, I am after all posting here to get critique on my work and I'm smart enough not to take it personally, I know you're all just trying to help me improve.

Thanks,
Khare

mistasam02
07-21-2009, 05:49 AM
Try making the legs do more to help get him up, and some struggling would be nice. Also make sure not to hyper-extend his arms when he straightens out. The elbows are a big issue as well. They're going kind of crazy right now and should stay pointed somewhat forward. Nice progress though, keep it up!

MikaelPersson
07-21-2009, 10:17 AM
It looks like you've animated yourself into the famous corner.
As mentioned earlier, this inverted spine pose does not work, it just looks weird. Once you've changed your general pose to a more believable one it will sell your animation properly.

Something else to think about is your movement back and forth. By moving the body under the bar you will create a more dynamic animation. Right now it looks like you've just animated the body in Y (world up).

PinkSherbet
07-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Hello... doing well khare :)
Watch up for your elbows, it might be going down too quickly.
You can overlap your legs more, it looks like curtain flapping in the wind. Try letting him struggle more. Having your legs move forward at times, may help to balance the screen space, which action is contrain mainly to the left now.

Khare
07-22-2009, 07:16 PM
Ey guys! I hit some trouble with the rig, but it might just be some regular maya bullshit, which is why I haven't gotten any updates up yet. Gonna try to get one up before the weekend, thanks for all your input!

Mikael: Hey man thanks for the input, but can you be more specific, I'm not sure I'm getting which part you think I should improve :)

Mistasam: Yeah, I agree. Probably gonna end up changing the whole leg animation and adding some new poses. I'm letting the damn computer do to much.

PinkSherbet: Thanks man! I'm gonna try to implement your suggestions today/tomorrow if I can figuire out how to fix my rig issue, before starting on a new (and better planned) exercise.

MikaelPersson
07-22-2009, 08:46 PM
On second thought, I don't think you need to redo as much as I feared. What bugs me is the centre of gravity.
While doing these kinds of exercises you need to have your weight straight beneath the bar. Which you don't have at the moment.

As you have chosen to go the opposite way of pushing the legs and body away from the bar you need to push and rotate the body under it even more.
Would you have gone the ordinary way of having your legs in front of your character then the COG would have been pushed forward that much more.

Do you see what I am getting at?

Khare
07-22-2009, 08:51 PM
Hey Mikael! Yeah, I get it. And it's an important thing to have in mind indeed. Unfortunatly the rig I'm using bugged as you can see on this picture: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/535/weirdstuff1.jpg and I have no idea what I did to it. So for the last two hours I have been watching pull up clips on youtube and making notes about line of action, elbow position, overlaps ect, aswell as some drawings of line of action throughout my whole new planned scene. Since I can't continue on this one at the moment I will just focus on doing ONE pull up properly and see where that takes me. Hopefully with a bit more planning I will get it right this time. I'll post it here when I'm done! Thanks :)

Weird. It seems like the rig is bugged in every single maya file it's used. Even in the original file. Does anyone have any ideas?

MikaelPersson
07-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Good, good. So I was clearer this time :)
It looks like you have managed to disable constraints in some way. But it's almost impossible to tell you what to look out for though..

Khare
07-22-2009, 09:09 PM
I don't think it is constraints, the controls still rotate the body, but they don't follow their parent curve anymore, also the translation is ****ed up on almost all the curves, and some curves don't even rotate the body. I'll download some free rigs and see if I get the same problem.

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