HARDCORE MODELING!: QOTRM: Airship Carrier

[BlenderFan]

Don't be too critical of yourself, I think you have great concept art. Looks like a massive zeppelin, what size airplanes are we talking about? You seem to have a sound plan in mind, which is always important. Wish you luck.

Cheers and God bless.

[Telvin_3D]

I like the idea of the central hanger and the two pylon supports.

One thing you might run into is the centre hanger feeling very visually heavy. You might want to look to minimizing its profile or making it more of an open framework. If the central section doesn't feel like it can be supported by the two zeppelins then the whole visual won't be as strong.

[razeverius]

@BlenderFan-thanks, World War 2 like planes. Except I'll change their look, make it more of a fantasy like plane
:)
@Telvin_3D- yeah, bout that, i was thinking of addint a third one on top..or making the supporting blimps bigger then the one at the center to support it.

[razeverius]

ok, so i had time to spare at school and started with the supporting blimps. I modeled it with a plane and just special duplicated it around since i wanted to get a bumpy look on it like this:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/02.jpg

but then there's a problem whenever i do a fill hole on the model. It gives this kinda look:



http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/prob.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/prob02.jpg

feels kind of annoying to look at but at the same time i'ts ok with me since the focus wouldn;t be on them but still. It looks annoying. Any tips to fix it to make it look smooth?

[RageOfAges]

Great concept razeverius. I like your design. I agree that the supports should be bigger than the main hull, though.

As for your wacky open gl funkiness, there are several solutions. What you have, there, is what's called an n-gon, which is a poly with more than 4 sides(quad). n-gons act funny when smoothed, since a smooth operation esentially splits all polys in 4,8,16 etc depending on the level of subdivision, and smooths it in that sense. What's happening on your model is that your quads are being smoothed, but the n-gon (which has a VERY high amount of edges), doesn't smooth so well. The operation is trying to do it's best, but you end up with drawing errors in the open gl view, and most probably in the render as well.

Here is the idea behind a blimp or zeppelin (it is important to do research on your subject and understand the machinations behind it). There is a steel frame, split into triangles or quads (usually quads, I believe), then there is a canvas stretched over the entire structure. So, not only do you have ribbed edges flowing along the length, you would typically have ribbed edge rings going across the surface as well. Seeing the zeppelin in this light, you can create a cylinder with how ever many subdivisions you like (these would represent the actual metal structure under the canvas. You can then set these edges as hard edges (using edge weight-I can't remember where the option is in maya, but you can ask your teacher). When you smooth the entire poly model, your edges should maintain crisp edges. If there is no edge weight tool in maya (again, I really can't remember), you can select all your edges and under the normal menu, lock normals. This should have the same effect. Regardless, the following is an example of smoothing under different circumstances. I used Modo. These following examples only show how to deal with the caps, and not the hard edges.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/hades4president/rezeveriusblimphelp.jpg

1)This is a simple cylinder, one segment, 2 caps, that has been smoothed. You can clearly see how the caps get screwy.

2)I've added 1 edgeloop in the center, and made a large bevel on the edges of the cap set at 2 segments (this is the equivalent of extruding, pulling and scaling down the caps twice). Here you can notice that the cylinder is starting to really retain its shape after the smooth operation, but its still not perfect. Those caps are still giving me drawing errors because there's just so many edges.

3)Here I've beveled the cap in one more time-the smaller the cap gets, the less the drawing errors are noticeable, but they are still there.

4)What I did here was colapse the final cap. All the points for the caps converted into 1 point, which STILL isn't ideal, I've essentially created the opposite of a giant ngon. A pole (1 point) which has 12 edges associated to it. I would definitely have drawing errors on this one, as poles of this density also give off poor shading when smoothed, so I took it a step further. When you collapse a poly like I did, you end up with a whole lot of triangles. I selected every OTHER edge and deleted them. This gave me an entire quad setup at the poles. Granted, the shape is wrong for a zeppelin, but the technique would be the same. You would just have to shape it better than I did.

You can take this technique and combine it with the hard edge/edge-lock normal technique that I mentioned earlier, and you should be able to achieve exactly what you want with the best polygon economy.

One last option: You can select ALL of the edges, and run a bevel on them. When you smooth, you will get crisp edges, just like a zeppelin has. The only trouble with this is, if you get into the habit of doing it this way (the easy way) You end up with a CRAP load of polygons and this can drastically increase render time once you get to the end. Good topology and polygon economy should be something that you are conscious of throughout the modeling process.

Hope this helped. Clearly I had time lol. I just noticed the novel I wrote haha. Anyway, good luck in the challenge man and I look forward to some updates.

PS: By smooth, I was talking about convert to sub-d. My apologies for the confusion, if any. IN modo, polys and sub-d's are one and the same, so I always call it smoothing.

Cheers

-Rage

edit: I realized my images were fuzzy, so threw in a closeup example of the poles, in tris and quads.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/hades4president/rezeveriusblimphelp2.jpg

[razeverius]

WOW! Thanks Rage! That solved my problem, and i learned what an n-gon is haha..oh yeah, I don't really know any teachers in our school who are 3d profs since our 3d class would start next year but I was really excited to learn in advance so I started ahead, and end up learning here most of the time. hhmm i don't really know what else to say, except thanks. that is quite long what you typed out and explained a lot :). Good luck to you too.

[razeverius]

I seriously could not get this off of my mind. so instead of just trying what Rage said on a sample cylinder I took it seriously onto my model

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/06.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/07.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/08.jpg

now that that's done. I better get back to practicing charcoal sketching for tomorrow's exam :). Again thanks for the long explanation Rage. I hope what I did is what you were advising:beer:

[RageOfAges]

Great Razeverius. Exactly what I was saying. Your Zeppelin now looks 100 times better already. Now just don't forget about the crossbeams on the inside. They are more subtle, but still there. Check out this picture, and you'll see what I mean. They follow a more organic curve so tend to look much smoother, but they are still there and provide a tiny little bit of bump across the entire model.

http://www.eohoppe.com/assets/books/book4/images/18014-H.jpg

you may be able to get the perfect look just by adding those edgerings onto your model. If not, you can try giving them a little weight (value about 5-10%)-look in the edge menu...there should be a an option for weight. It might be in the poly menu too. Regardless, incorporating these techniques will give you the subtle look you are looking for, and it will give your model uniform quads, which is a good thing (both for subdividing and for laying out UV's).

Good luck

-Rage

PS: Random thought: When I was learning modeling, my teacher suggested that i test settings by using tiny values then gigantic values to more brutally see the difference. ie, talking about edge weight...try playing with it at 0.1, then 100, to clearly see the effects...or take ambient color in the hypershade. put it at 0.1, then put it at something rediculous like 5000(it doesn't go up to 5000, but if you click on the color swatch, a color palette will come up and you can manually set the value there (HSV). This is something that helped me out a great deal when I was trying to figure out what all these random names I had never heard of were used for, and their effects.

[razeverius]

@Rage-Thank you sir for the advices as for the crossbeams, they are equally distributed right? I've searched up pix of zeppelins and they look a lot. About what you've said this one:

"or take ambient color in the hypershade. put it at 0.1, then put it at something rediculous like 5000(it doesn't go up to 5000, but if you click on the color swatch, a color palette will come up and you can manually set the value there (HSV)."

I didn't quite get what you were saying.

Updates:

I love playing Splinter Cell I'm a fan of how cool Sam Fisher looks and then it hit me, what if I add some rotor at the side of the supporting zeps, one on each zeps or make that 2 just like the V-22 Osprey, and so here are some concepts I made for the rotors:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/Rotorblades.jpg

not yet sure which one to use since these are just early sketches.

[RageOfAges]

Basically, what I was saying is that it's really helpful to understand what ANY setting does if you set it at a very low value, take a look, then set it at a very HIGH value, and take a look at what happens. The results are incredibly drastic, and usually not something you would use, but it gives a great perspective on what is happening when you use the slider. The ambient color was just an example of this. When dealing with HSV (Hue, saturation, value-another way to calculate color would be RGB-red, green,blue). When using HSV, a value of 1 is white, and a value of 0 is black. In the color swatch, you can numerically enter hue, saturation, or value. When you put the value higher than 1, it acts as a multiplier and generates light (kinda). you can also enter a negative amount, which would actually suck light out of the scene (and you get pretty cool effects in your scenes this way). In essence, when dealing with sliders and trying to learn what they do, try the extremes and see what happens. From there you can roll the settings down to what looks good, and you actually know what maya is doing in order to achieve the look you want.

BTW, I like the 1st concept the best :)

-Rage

[razeverius]

ahhh i see now, something like experimenting around right? what did u mean by 1st concept? the zeppelin launching planes on top or u mean the rotor blade?

Updates:

Just like to do this a lot back when i knew little about maya. started with that 3d gear tutorial from highend3d about rendering using HDRI so until now i do that for test renders:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_01.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_02.jpg

[razeverius]

hhmm not sure which steel bar design should i use.

on the first one, im going to add these like things that go through the hole. The second one stays like that.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/09.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/10.jpg

[Intervain]

i love Zeppelins - looking forward to seeing this develop for sure!

[JM-art]

Great, keep the nice work.

[razeverius]

@Intervain and JMART-Thanks guys. Just need to wait one more week for school requirements to be done and I'll be able to work on this some more :D

[razeverius]

not much updates. Just came from school, charcoal exams. My brain isn't functioning wel lright now. lacks creativity but oh well here's what i have:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/11.jpg

that's the support for the cable that'll run down to the main craft. I was thinking of making something like these:

http://i.pbase.com/u10/dajavu/large/2235543.Suspenders.jpg

http://www.columbiariverimages.com/Images06/cable_bridge_cable_attachment_2006.jpg

so yeah, those are my ideas. Goodnight :)

[mick8]

Go GO GO! your concept is coming along nicely. I would personally prefer the crossbeams. Makes it look more mechanical. Waiting so see more updates!:buttrock:

[razeverius]

so here's how the one holding the cable look like:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/12.jpg

might make it look bigger or maybe not anymore since it feels like its big enough already

[razeverius]

more updates. Next is going to be the rotor that will support the zep on flying

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/13.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/14.jpg

[razeverius]

hhmm first one looked like it was going to choke and pop the zep so i decreased it to 2 in the middle. The rest of the rings will have cables to support the center one

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/15.jpg

[razeverius]

here's a small update just to see how it would look like when it's attached to the center hangar. As you can clearly see, it looks like it isnt holding on to the center. It's still something I'm working on :)

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/16.jpg

[Telvin_3D]

Those metal beam connectors look incredibly brutally heavy. I feel like it should drag the whole thing over on its side. I think that reference image you posted of the cables would be far more effective. Sort of suspension-bridge style with dozens of smaller cables bridging the gap. You could also run similar cables from the far side and underneath.

Also I just realized something about your design. The original sketches had rigid attachments between the central hanger and the support dirigibles. Those explained how they would remain offset from the main body. However, with a more flexible attachment they are going to want to float straight up above like balloons on a string. It will feel very, very weird if they are magically floating off to the side.

You may want to plan on including a rigid lattice or beam that connects the two support dirigibles together above the main hanger and holds them apart. Do it in the same style as that test 'X' bar design you posted below (which I think is visually stronger than the other circular design). The final look with the main hanger suspended below the two supports should be really striking.

Anyways, I'm enjoying watching this come together and look forward to seeing where you go with it.

[razeverius]

@telvin_3D: Thanks for the advices! :D. My brother commented that I'm straying away from my original design though since I felt that it would be too heavy having the 2 zeps at the side and the center at the same height level so i made the supporting ones higher but that meant figuring a way to change the wing like support it had from the orig design and so, I researched up on bridges and ferris wheels.

[JM-art]

Hi, nice updates. The faceted look on those things...is a thing that you wanted to do? IMO, it seems like a smooth surface will look better. Maybe smooth but with some extrusion here and there to insinuate some panels or whatever.

Cheers.

[razeverius]

@ JMART: oh yeah sorry about that. I forgot to leave them on smooth preview.

For the peeps giving me advices thanks really appreciate them :D. This is actually the hhmm largest project I've ever done so yeah, all helps and advices appreciated

[razeverius]

oook, i know I'm slow on the updates, but it's just too tempting to play Overlord 2 :surprised, so now that I'm done with the game I can get back at this. Had to satisfy my mind :blush:

here's how the final airship should look like:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/final_look.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/final_look02.jpg

The cylinders are the Rotor's or propellers or, what do you call them? SO that they can support the main zep since it is metal and carrying wwii plane look a likes that I've sketched out and hope to be able to model for the challenge.

one thing that popped in my head was the Golden Gate Bridge. Gotta love it, it's amazing, been 2 years since I saw it

http://www.guidebook.se/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/golden_gate_bridge_cable.jpg

http://cinemazement.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/img_8305.jpg

http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/golden-gate-bridge-san-francisco-ca319.jpg

btw, these reference pix, how do i credit them? do i give the link to the websites?

[razeverius]

ok so before I proceed further I'd like to show how far I've got through the new concept so far:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/17.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/18.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/19.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/20.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/21.jpg

Hope they look more better.

PS the center zep won't look like that. I just duplicated the supporting zep and put it in the middle so I could make the cables already. I won't stray away from my org concept of it.

[razeverius]

whew. Ok my mind keeps flowing with alot of ideas. This other one is just a quick model which remains faithful to the original concept:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/orig_01.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/orig_02.jpg

I could add additional cables to support the wings. Somehow I think this will work more since the center zep is metal:arteest:

[razeverius]

Not much updates. Been busy with school projects too. Anyway, I'm going to continue on the bridge like supports. More detailed to me and I've added some bolts onto the belt that holds the zep:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/22.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/23.jpg

[razeverius]

ok, before i continue further this is the update I have on the cables.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/24.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/25.jpg

tell me if it looks like them cables already :) these are just smooth previews. None of them are subdived or smoothed yet

[jojo1975]

they are looking very good ! keep going

[razeverius]

thank you jojo1975 :)

[wagga]

wow - very nice cables. Did you model them with polygons?

[razeverius]

yes sir. i shaped a plane into a cross,extruded it and applied a nonlinear twist :)

[menthol]

Hey pal :D

I'm wondering why the cables are not rounded. It looks weird to me, tried to find some reference but couldn't so, I'm asking you :D

Have fun!

[razeverius]

hi menthol,

yeah bout that. Still trying to figure out how to make it kinda rounded still, that's why i didn't smooth them, just preview smooth in case I need to tweak things around :D. The references I used were these:

http://earthlingsoft.net/ssp/blog/photos/GoldenGateCable.jpeg
http://www.rithea.com/images/Folio/BrooklynBridgeCable.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_294/1217449125Gc6rLw.jpg

hope that helps. You joining too?

[menthol]

Well, rounded edges fooled me, I thought you had edge loops around edges / bevel and wanted them to look like that. And I didn't quite get what you mean, you are trying to make them rounded but didn't figure out yet? If that's the case, I'm using Helix for cable/ropes. You may know it already, maybe I'm wrong to use it, then, if you have anything better I'd like to know :D

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4899/helix.gif (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/helix.gif/)

My schedule didn't meet the challenge once again, but I'll be around. :D

[razeverius]

hiya! I've been tweaking around with several shapes to make the cable look better and this is what popped in my head inspiration for the idea was this:

http://www2.dupont.com/Plastics/en_US/assets/images/News/bridgecable_ehi.jpg


those tiny bits reminded me of the bridge cable bundled up together and twisted so this is what I cape up with:

I created a poly cylinder 6 sides 0 caps and duplicated it around merged vertices to look like this:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/cable_01.jpg

I then made a cv curve and extruded it:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/cable_02.jpg

I then used a nonlinear twist and played around with the settings and this is the result i got:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/cable_03.jpg

Looks kind of like a rope though. If you can tweak it up to look more like a cable please tell me :D

btw, this is how my first idea for the cable would look like if i didn't add extra edges:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/noedge.jpg

this is how it looks like when smoothed and twisted again:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/noedge_02.jpg

[jojo1975]

thanks for sharing !

[razeverius]

@jojo1975: sure thing. Hope it helped since I'm also a little lost on how to make those cables :D

ookkk just a quick update before i go to sleep. I've been waiting for someone to go online but then since that person won't go online, might as well sleep instead. Man do I hate time difference. Philippines to San Frans is like -15 hours!

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/27.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/28.jpg

Just a quick look on how it looks like with two Zeps :D

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/29.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/30.jpg

hopefully I can update tomorrow or should I say later, since I've got one more school project to go :arteest: anyway goodnight!

[WyattHarris]

Cables look great from a distance. If you really want to get a rounded edge use your existing technique just start with something rounded instead of hexagons. Like stick a group of 12 sides circles together and extrude those.

[razeverius]

thanks Wyatt! :D, wonder why I didn't think of that, maks me feel dumb for it to slip my mind:blush: anyway here's what I did when i followed what Wyatt said:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/cable_01-1.jpg

here's the comparison of the old cable and new cable:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/cable_02-1.jpg

this is a good morning! :D

[WyattHarris]

this is a good morning! :D
Glad I could help with your morning. Great results so far. :thumbsup:

[RageOfAges]

The last cables look the best, and that was a great idea Wyatt.

Here is something you might want to consider.

1)Poly count: I`m not sure if you planned on submitting this model to the fxwars guys, but in case you did, they will be rigging your model. The fewer polys for them to deal with, the better.
Also, Once you pull away from the model to render the entire thing, you won't really be able to notice the subtleties at that distance, especially if they're rigged to sway dynamically with the motion of the ship, so a simple tube might actually be in your best interest, and the fxwars guys could simply but a repeating bump texture to accomplish the same level of detail you have modeled there.

Keep it up, man. You're ripping through this quickly, and your airship is looking great!

-Rage

[razeverius]

@Rage: oh yeah about that. If I was going to give this to the fxwars guys how should I know how much poly count I should do? I have no clue about these things. Oh yeah and I am kind of embarassed with my outliner. I've got it really messy since those bolts are so many:blush: but I'm grouping them. If you have any advices on how to keep my model clean and not heavy would really appreciate it your advices have been great!:applause:

Could I have 2 versions of this model though? like one is detailed model and the other is for the fxwar guys if they would wanna use it.

[WyattHarris]

This is an interesting thought. Typically I go hog wild on the poly count in these challenges and don't consider someone else needing to use the model. I guess we would need to know more about what the FXWars challenge is going to entail. Making a low res version may not be a bad idea if someone wants to shoot your model from a distance.

[RobertoOrtiz]

This is an interesting thought. Typically I go hog wild on the poly count in these challenges and don't consider someone else needing to use the model. I guess we would need to know more about what the FXWars challenge is going to entail. Making a low res version may not be a bad idea if someone wants to shoot your model from a distance.

that is a very good idea..
-R

[razeverius]

hhhmm one of the description of the challenge said this: The artists will have at their discretion how detailed the models they will be working on. But then after what Rage said,:shrug:. My brother told me to ask how much should the poly count be, like the dominance war challenge?

so I guess I might have to pause here for awhile before I continue on. Since there is a question raised

[RageOfAges]

Try and think of it this way, James:

Every Poly (Or every Vertex, really) asks a little more from your system. It needs more memory, it takes up more room in your file, more work for openGL(and your vidcard), more time to render. And when it's animated, it takes more for your processor. There are a lot of other variables that I'm not mentioning too. This isn't a big deal when you consider a couple extra vertices (the difference is would not be noticeable at all), but when dealing with thousands of extra veritices, it can add up quickly. Think of your cables, for example. each point from your initial shape gets duplicated along a curve with x amount of segments, then the cable duplicated as well. Well like I said, it adds up fast.

Maya can handle a lot, though, and when it's pure modeling for a still image, then it's the end results that count. But when working for animation it becomes a little different.

Basically your poly count will be a lot different between a cube and a sphere (or an airship and a conoe). My suggestion is that you just try and stay conscious of what you imagine will be done to your model. If you picture them using a lot of closeups, then I would model a lot of detail (and increase your polycount), or if you imagine that your ship will mostly be seen at a distance, then you can get away with less smaller detail and concentrate on larger details (and decreasing your polycount). There will always be a sacrifice somewhere. But you can decide what to sacrifice depending on your needs.

As for your outliner:

It is quite important to name your objects and keep them as organized as possible. Especially when starting out. Not only for others, but for yourself. Even when you model things only for yourself, it's a good habit to get into. Eventually you're going to end up making stuff for other people to use, so naming your objects as you create them is key. Another important thing for organizing your outliner is to use a naming convention. something like this:
m_HULL_back (m would stand for mesh, hull is capitalized so it sticks out, and back says it's the back portion of the hull). so from then on, you could continue like m_HULL_front, m_TOWER_bridge, etc. etc. You could use different prefixes if it were a light, a locator, a shader or material, etc. (s_HULL_back =shader_HULL_back).

Hope that helps, and to be fair, your great desire for 3d gives me inspiration and motivation to work on my own stuff. Keep it up!

-Rage

[WyattHarris]

My brother told me to ask how much should the poly count be, like the dominance war challenge?
There is no such limit in this challenge, at least not that I've seen. My Cheetara model ended up being 5.5 million polys after displacement and everything. Animating it was a beast of a task though my system held up to it.

[razeverius]

@ Rage- WOW! Again, thank you for the amount of time you spent for giving me information on these things. Wish I could return the favor:blush:. Anyway, I guess I will be modeling a detailed version then since most of the scenes I'd like for this is close up because I will be showing the interior of the main zeppelin where the air crafts will be deployed. As for the outliner so far so good I've been naming them but I like the way you showed how to name them. Not only does it look professional it looks neat and not confusing. Again thank you so much! :bowdown:

btw the reason why I've wanted to model detailed was because I wanted to see how much I've learned in a year. After modeling I will be focusing on texturing so i might not be around for another hmc for some time :)

@Wyatt- ohh I see so then it'll be ok to continue on with the way I model?

[razeverius]

ook i noticed i haven't updated my model lately. School work, but what the heck, after effects is just really fun to use. Kramer rocks :buttrock:. Anyway here's the model of the Rotor inspired by the V-22 Osprey

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/31.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/32.jpg

[razeverius]

I've finally modeled the central zep I've got two versions one is smoothed out and one still looks like a zep:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/33.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/34.jpg

[RageOfAges]

when do you sleep? :surprised

-Rage

[razeverius]

when do you sleep? :surprised

-Rage

Not sure what you meant about the question but it was around 4 pm here in the Phils. when I updated. To be honest, if there was no need to sleep I wouldn't anymore. Learning a lot of these things has been addicting especially the after effects. My first time using it and it's been quite fun :D:scream:

[japetus]

I'm lovin what you are doing here! Keep it up! Is that a rudder on the lower zeppelin? Is it going to be connected with some controls?

[razeverius]

I'm lovin what you are doing here! Keep it up! Is that a rudder on the lower zeppelin? Is it going to be connected with some controls?

Hi thanks! ohh that. It's like the control tower of the zeppelin haven't detailed out the model of it. It's about time I showed what sparked me to make the idea of my zeppelin and it is this:

http://www.lepoix.de/picture/machine_age_streamline/machine_age_streamline_design/anticlopedia_machine_age_streamline_design_pict1104_1.JPG

I was searching around in google for reference pix of some kind of train look since before I reread the instructions, I was thinking of making a battleship and this was where I got the inspiration but then after rereading the contest instructions which everything is in the air I just trasferred the design from battleship to zep :D

[japetus]

Ooh man I gotta stop looking here...you have all sortsa good reference that gives me ideas for my airship! :lightbulbTime to go back to google methinks

[japetus]

A lot of good stuff on the site that the image above is from...also just found this one:

http://whathappenstwice.com/galleries/art_deco/

[razeverius]

ey japetus..cool site! more inspirations to go through :D

[RageOfAges]

Not sure what you meant about the question but it was around 4 pm here in the Phils. when I updated. To be honest, if there was no need to sleep I wouldn't anymore. Learning a lot of these things has been addicting especially the after effects. My first time using it and it's been quite fun :D:scream:

ahh, right, the phils. I work graveyard shift, so I`m up during the same hours as you. It just seems there's an update at every time of day...I was just making a comment that you're constantly working on this, which is a good thing.

-Rage

[razeverius]

@Rage-ohh i see, half way across the world so time difference is really big. Mind if I ask what your job is?

I upload my w.i.p.s also on my multiply account and a friend of mine asked me at school how I find the time to practice 3d and drawing too. Well the answer is, I lack a social life :p

Anyway here's a really really quick sketch I did on my sketchpad. I am seriously tired from 2d animation class. 72 drawings for 3 seconds!:argh:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/Interior.jpg

i will be detailing this up on my sketchpad of course since our professors will be looking at them by the end of the term. Just wanted to show how big the interior of the central zep would be and how it would look like. Goodnight!:scream:

[razeverius]

updates on the interior:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/36.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/35.jpg

[Telvin_3D]

Hey, neat idea for a hanger visual if you would like. Have the larger spare parts for the air planes hanging from the ceiling joists. Picture spare engines and wings and such all racked up overhead, ready to be lowered.

Not sure if I've thought it through, but it popped into my head looking at your test stuff.

[razeverius]

@Telvin_3D Hiya wow great timing! i was thinking of doing that too. I think I the idea popped in my mind because I saw sky captain about 3 or 2 weeks ago:shrug:

[razeverius]

just a small update. Haven't had the time to get into maya that much so before i head to school here's a quick update I did:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/37.jpg

inspiration for the interior:

http://www.usgwarchives.org/oh/summit/postcards/goodyear/facint.jpg

My brother told me to make a little plain at least to show how big it is like in my sketch.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/38.jpg

Now for cross beams around like those pipes you can see. Will try to update after classes later :D

[razeverius]

i have been slow on updating lately..anyway this is how it looks now:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/40.jpg

the only thing left to figure is making it look as one. THe opening and the interior

[jab1389]

Wow, and I thought my concepts were looking massive! The modeling is coming along and its looks great. Keep it up!

[razeverius]

@ jab1389: thanks man. I think everyone's model is going to be massive.

Btw has anyone watched the movie Stealth? Man I love the jets and the zep carrying the fuel:buttrock:

[razeverius]

Haven't been touching Maya for awhile. Been busy with school. Anyway I sketched out the plane this is how it will look like:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/IMG.jpg

I based it on the Spitfire and did some modifications of my own. The wings will be thicker then the normal one since it has 3 machine guns on each wing. A cable will go from the wing engine to the center to support it. The part left after the machine gun is straight that's not a mistake in my sketch. I just wanted to add sort of a style onto it

As for the rotor maybe I'll use this as a guide:

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/jaeamf/F4U%20Walkaround/Bentwing%203.JPG

[RageOfAges]

I really like that sketch Raz. A Lot. Very cool design...makes me think of GI Joe (oldshool cartoon) for some reason that I can`t put my finger on. Regardless, it's freakin' awesome. Can't wait to see it develop.

-Rage

[mnoire]

the sketch of that spitfire like plane is indeed very cool. Id love to model one of those myself. Curious to your process! Keep us updated

[razeverius]

@mnoire- Thanks man :) I just finished sketching the ortho at school awhile ago

@Rage- Wow! to be honest that's the first time i found out G.I Joe had a cartoon show. I just thought they were toys before which was going to be made into a movie. My brother has a lot of collection of those toys and i remember breaking some of them as a kid :rolleyes:

well definitely tomorrow I will spend time modeling the spitfire. I have no idea how to start it yet but I'm thinking of using either cube or cylinder for starters. Well tomorrow I start updating my modeling again :D

[razeverius]

not much. Just blocked out the shape of the plane:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/01.jpg

[razeverius]

Another update before i get some zzz. I am really slow at updating lately. School work is killing me

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/02-1.jpg

[razeverius]

So then I repeated the whole model since I was not satisfied with the first one. I couldn't get the cockpit area properly so I deced to use a cube instead and add several edges to make it look like a cylinder like what I did with one of my school projects of a wristwatch

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/01-1.jpg

If you guys have any suggestions on how to approach the model it would really help because to be honest, I suck when modeling planes. I've tried modeling an F-16 before and a Spitfire and it didn't go too well

[japetus]

Hey Raz, that's not bad really. That's more or less how I make my plane bodies and I used to model them at a previous place of employment. If you are lucky, your blueprints will have a few cross sections of the fuselage labeled A,B,C, etc and you can line yoru vertices up with that. Here's a screenshot of my biplane mesh I am using for my challenge. It's quick and dirty, but gets the job done. I just plan on throwing on a turbosmooth mostly and it's good to go.

http://japetusproductions.com/Images/CGTalk/HMC_21/WIP/biplane_01.jpg

[japetus]

That's what it's all about! As long as you improve each time... :beer:

How'd this come out above you?

[razeverius]

Thanks japetus. I was a bit nervous of how I was modeling the plane since the previous ones I've tried before were failures and unsatisfactory :argh:

[razeverius]

hhmm yahoo must've notified me late about another post you made. Anyway what did you mean by:

"How'd this come out above you?"

[razeverius]

some updates:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/02-2.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/03.jpg

here's my source for the spitfire:

http://www.deroeck.co.uk/planes/Spitfire-Mk-XIX-PS890.html

as the for the circles those are some troubles I'm trying to solve

1. the cockpit: it looks too plain. Whenever I add edges to make it look better it starts giving me weird shapes

2. the rotor as seen from one of the link's picture which is this one: http://www.deroeck.co.uk/plane-pictures-ww2/Spitfire-MkXIX-10-Griffon.jpg

the rotor cover has this hole inside which I'm still working on. Whew more updates to come later I've gotta do a drawing homework for tomorrow

:arteest::wip:

[razeverius]

ok I couldn't help myself I wanted to finish at least one of those things I indicated awhile ago :D so here's the update:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/04.jpg

Man after this challenge I'd love to texture this and hopefully get it right since im terrible at texturing:argh:

[japetus]

Raz, i would try modeling the cockpit windshield as a seperate piece. Try just detaching the polygons you have there and go from there.

[razeverius]

@Japetus: ahh I see I'll try that out. Thanks for the tip :D

I know I'm annoying. I said I'd start drawing my homework and yes I am doing it but I just can't get this thing off my head because it's been awhile since I updated. So here's how it looks like when they are combined with the zep:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/01-2.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/02-3.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/03-1.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/04-1.jpg

Now it's got me thinking whether to detail out the spitfire some more since I remember what Rage said about not necessarily detailing out the model if it won't be up close.

[japetus]

Wow, that is looking really cool!! Great sense of scale :)

[WyattHarris]

Man, that thing is huge. I'd say start with the low rez version and try and get your project finished. After you're done if you have time left you can detail the Spitfire and have a close up.

[ThreeDeePops]

Looking good, and Big!

[razeverius]

Thanks guys :) and thanks Wyatt I think I'll do that since I haven't thoroughly finished up the supporting Zep yet after I'm done with one of the supporting zeps it'l be justa a matter of duplicating it to the other side :)

[razeverius]

Just a small update, it so happens I brought my usb and I was able to get my hands on one of the computers awhile ago but then a class was about to start

A.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/42.jpg

B.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/43.jpg



Still haven't decided what to use yet. I'll try to update some more when I get home

[razeverius]

Happy day for me. Our professor sent as a text saying project was extended till next week and I seriously suck at web design especially dreamweaver. Anyway as a happy hour I updated my work :D

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/44-1.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/45.jpg

[razeverius]

So I'm pretty much done with mine I just need to fix the interior of the airship and if I have time fix up the spitfire and come up with a flight scene

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_05.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_04.jpg

[hugopdionisi]

Hi James!

nice model man! Will you texture it?

uptades! updates! haha

[razeverius]

thanks Hugo. Hopefully I can, that is one thing I do not know how to do:sad: i'll try to update some more. Schedule of classes are tight right now that's why I can't :D

[sanketpro3d]

Nice long post man ... Huge entry ,.
nice going ..
keep it up !!

[razeverius]

Thanks sanketpro3d. I just realized I kept asking a lot here and posting small bits of updates, no wonder my thread is long. Embarrassing, perhaps I should lessen the small updates like what I'm about to do now :D

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/06-1.jpg

didn't get to work on this much yet. Maybe later when I get back from school. Does anyone know how to do claymation? Man does it take long.:eek:

[kossak]

the concept is excellent as well as modeling, congratulations

[icegene]

hey james! nice work!

I like the flying V formation of the planes around the zep. Hey why not try having a dog fight in the background?

[razeverius]

thanks kossak :)

icegene- thanks, if i still have time I might model another plane for that kind of scene but most likely I won't anymore. School is killing us remember?:scream:

I have a question. What, is the difference if I use Subdiv to smooth out my model or usign the smooth tool? Because whenever I use the smooth tool, it has to be around level 2 just to get the smoothness I want and the file gets heavier. Unlike if I use subdiv, it gives the same results of a smooth level 2 but isn't heavy. Hope I make myself clear on what I'm trying to say.

[RageOfAges]

Hey Raz.

Great to see you're still plugging away at this. Something came up and I haven`t had time to work on my entry at all. That being said, I`ll try and explain sub-d's. Perhaps someone can correct me if I`m wrong.

What mesh smooth does is take your polys and divide them into 4 polys each and rounds out the shape based on an imaginary "curve" around the geometry. The result is that your model gets, well, smoothed, but has 4 times the amount of polys it used to, and each and everyone of these polygons is editable (ie scalable, translatable, rotatable, etc).

A Sub-D surface is similar, yet different. For one, it is a different type of surface than polygons. (kind of like how NURBS are a different type of surface). The extra polys, though, are "behind the scenes". You get the same smooth looking result, only you can`t edit each individual poly. This gives you a smooth result, but without the hassle of trying to tweak tiny shapes. Your original polygons are still visible and you can make changes to these. What you are doing, in effect, is making changes to 4 polygons at a time, so your changes are more global.

On a side note, I tend to work mostly in Sub-D. Even on my low rez mesh, which I usually allways create in polygons, I'm always modeling my topology to work well with Sub-D. Once I get a good box-in from my base and it holds up in Sub-D...most of my work is done in this state. One thing I love about Modo is that sub-D's and Polys are essentially the same. Sometimes things look alright in poly mode, but prety bad in sub-ds if you haven`t topologized your mesh the right way, and sometimes things look great in sub-d, but terrible in poly mode. Purely working in sub-d can be a nightmare in my opinion (they can be hard to predict at times), but in my opinion it is worth learning the discrepencies and powering through the hairpulling (argh-why can`t I get my mesh to look right!). Eventually you come out the other end and appreciate them.

One last thing: When sub-d's were introduced, the idea behind them was "the smooth look of nurbs with the power of polygon modeling".

Cheers

-Rage

[razeverius]

wow thank you rage for the explanation :). I dont know, but I prefer using the sub-d most of the time since yeah about it being not that heavy not like the smooth, and its easier to fix up the model while on sub-d at times, so thanks for that. I am quite confused on what to use at times. I guess smoothing has it's place too at my models sometimes

[razeverius]

hello peeps. I think I'm done with my spitfire version. Ima start making the props of the airship's interior tomorrow:

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/08-1.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/09-1.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/11-1.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/14-2.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/15-1.jpg

[razeverius]

so here's the update of the spitfire. It's done. Interior almost. Though I feel like I won't make it since project deadline for school meets up with hmc deadline

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_06.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/razeverius/test_07.jpg

[the-woz]

Oh I like it!

The only detail is the propeller blades, they should be 90º apart of each other, not 60º and 120º like you have now.

http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/WWII-Military-Collectibles/Warbird-Aircraft-Parts-And-Collectibles/P-51-Mustang-Propeller-Sculpture/P-51-Mustang-Spinner.jpg

[RobertoOrtiz]

Dont forget to post your final entry on this thread:

Queen Of The Rocketmen: Post your Final Entry (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=795443)

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