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ptaverner
07-27-2003, 10:26 PM
I just finished the 3rd Todd Grimes DVD on Character modeling and animation.

The next DVD deals with Facial Animation, so this guy will look a lot better with something other than a blank stare on his face.

Anyway, here are the results so far. I just called him generic Man for now. I'll come up with a better name for him later on. :)

http://www.petertaverner.com/posts/lw/pose-test01.jpg


Peter

Infinity3d4life
07-27-2003, 10:34 PM
Very good job... I have those dvds as well...

ptaverner
07-27-2003, 10:35 PM
How do you like them?!

I'm a total newbie in Lightwave, so I thought this would be a good way to learn some of the tools.

roguenroll
07-28-2003, 01:49 AM
looks great, I have them as well, and there great.

nice super guy:beer:

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 02:13 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. :)

I have a question..... I used the bones to move the cape around, and as you can see by the renders, the cape isn't showing up completely. Is this because of lighting? ( Like I say, I'm new to LW, so I'm a bit puzzled as to why the cape isn't there.)

In layout the cape only displays from behind. From the other views, all I see are the bones, and a hint of the cape. That may be due to my machine, or is there something I'm missing in the settings?

Any help with this would be great! Thanks. :)
Peter

roguenroll
07-28-2003, 02:28 AM
couple of things.

if its a single poly, you can set surafces to 'double sided', single side by default are invbisible on the other side.

but it does look like it shows in one of the pics, so I say, either up
the luminosity on the cape, or you can set another light, for just the cape, you can set in properties, to exclude objects such as the character. for a little tweaking.

hope it helps.

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 02:31 AM
Great, thanks roguenroll! That helps a lot!
I was using Max prior to LW, so what you say makes sense, I'm still learning what LW can and cannot do, and where everything is. :)

Thanks again for the speedy reply
Peter

roguenroll
07-28-2003, 02:42 AM
I hear ya, I've been learning Maya. Many things are the same, but many aren't.:)

roguenroll
07-28-2003, 02:50 AM
oh yeah did you get the Lightwave VTM at http://www.3dbuzz.com/

its great to learn the UI and get a handle on the basics.

its free

DreamcastDC
07-28-2003, 03:20 AM
very nice

question? Where can I buy the Todd Grimes DVD?

thanks

milqman
07-28-2003, 03:27 AM
Todd Grimes DVDs - www.desktopimages.com

DreamcastDC
07-28-2003, 03:55 AM
^^
thanks

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 04:25 AM
Don't forget to check EBay for the DVDs. That's where I got mine. :)


I did get the LW VTMs from BUZZ. I already knew what was on them. I'm looking forward to newer VTMs form BUZZ, but by the time they come out I'll probably already know what's on them. :(

The Todd Grimes DVDs are worth the cost. Todd does a GREAT job of explaining what he's doing and why. Not just another click here, now here, do this, sort of thing.

If Todd were to put out another set of DVDs, I'd buy those also.

Thanks for the comments guys. :)


Peter

Triple G
07-28-2003, 06:15 AM
Peter,

As for your question about the cape, it looks like you just need to make the surface double-sided. Go into the Surface Editor, and select your cape's surface check the box down at the bottom where it says "double-sided".

If that's not it, then it could be just a matter of lighting, and the cast shadows from your character getting in the way. Try rendering over a background color other than black. That should give you an idea of what's going on.

BTW, the character looks great! Owlman's brother, perhaps? I think Todd would be proud. :thumbsup:

Para
07-28-2003, 09:06 AM
Looking good :thumbsup:

Can't wait to get my own DVD's...why it can't be wednesday already?

Odrakir
07-28-2003, 10:01 AM
I bought those DVD with my Lightwave 7.5 Summer deal. I got them from a reseller here in Spain, but they are NTSC and I can't watch them... very intelligent for them or whoever distributes them in europe. :annoyed:

Odrakir.

Robsi
07-28-2003, 10:37 AM
Hey Odrakir,

you can buy an NTSC compatible codefree DVD player ;)

Ciao, Robert

Odrakir
07-28-2003, 10:39 AM
hey! great idea man!! you give me the money and I'll go and buy it! :rolleyes:

Odrakir.

Miyazaki
07-28-2003, 10:59 AM
Are software dvd players like windvd able to play NTSC? I`m not sure:shrug:, but if they are, you could buy a low priced dvd drive instead of an expensive stand alone player.

Para
07-28-2003, 11:18 AM
Yes, software players such as WinDVD and PowerDVD are capable of playing NTSC, PAL and even some non-standards.

Vodoo_Child
07-28-2003, 05:32 PM
Richardo,
Have you tried contacting the dealer or desktop images directly to ask about a swap. Try sales or comments@ desktopimages.com to see if they can't help out. Your missing out on some great tutorials. A shareware copy of WinDVD or PowerDVD should do the trick for watching them on your PC. You might even try Nvidia's new DVD player if you have an Nvidia card.

Odrakir
07-28-2003, 06:39 PM
I know I can watch them on a computer's DVD... the only problem it's I don't have one yet. I'll buy one after summer (or a DVD-writer). My homeDVD is able to read NTSC too, the problem is my tv, which isn't.

I think it'll take me longer to get a PAL copy (if it exists) than buying the DVD.

Thanks to you all anyway.

Odrakir.

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the tip Triple G, I'll check it out. The odd thing is that I'm saving the renders as tga files, and the alpha ch doesn't contain the cape. ( only pieces of it. ) Weird.

Para and Odrakir, you'll really like the DVDs. Todd does a great job of explaining what he's doing and why. :)



Peter

Triple G
07-28-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by ptaverner
The odd thing is that I'm saving the renders as tga files, and the alpha ch doesn't contain the cape. ( only pieces of it. ) Weird.

Yup, sounds like a single-sided surface isssue. You could also add a little modeled thickness to the cape so that it actually physically has two sides.

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 08:29 PM
Very cool. Thanks again Triple G! :)


Peter

Triple G
07-28-2003, 09:06 PM
No problem. Glad to help. :beer:

Shade01
07-28-2003, 09:39 PM
Here's a question: What do you guys think about this training DVD teaching with such stylized characters? If someone were just learning both the software and about proper anatomy, I would think this DVD would be a detriment to proper learning, because the proportions are so far off and teach a lot of bad habits. Is this the only style that Todd Grimes can do?

Triple G
07-28-2003, 09:56 PM
I think you may be right that if someone wasn't familiar with the correct physical proportions and features of a real human body, bad habits could be picked up.

But I don't think it was Todd's intention to give an anatomy lesson with these DVDs. It's up to the viewers to take it upon themselves to learn about things like skeletal structure, muscle groups and how they interact with each other, etc. While this is important information to know when you're designing characters, it is also beyond the scope of these DVDs. No one should ever blindly follow one source of information and use that as their sole source of information. Todd presents a character with his own personal style, and while it may not be anatomically correct when compared to a "real" human, it is a visually exciting character IMO, and makes you want to learn how to do something like that. I think for what Todd has set out to do with these tutorials, he has done a very good job.

ptaverner
07-28-2003, 10:21 PM
I agree with Triple G on this one. Todd does make mention of proper anatomy during the DVDs, so he does know what's correct, and what's not.
Having an understanding of proper anatomy will help you when designing your own characters, no doubt about that.
I myself want to continue along the path of stylized characters, so for me, these DVDs are working out well. I don't have a strong desire to create perfect humans, but with the knowlage I have of basic human anatomy, my stylized characters will turn out much better. :)

Peter

roguenroll
07-28-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Shade01
Here's a question: What do you guys think about this training DVD teaching with such stylized characters? If someone were just learning both the software and about proper anatomy, I would think this DVD would be a detriment to proper learning, because the proportions are so far off and teach a lot of bad habits. Is this the only style that Todd Grimes can do?



I completely disagree, the funny thing is that while I was watching and learning with these DVDs, I didn't make any kind of humaniod character. I was applying his techniques directly to my deinonychus dinosaur. And man did it help out a lot, I mean a lot.

The fact is he HAS to be modelling some thing to demonstrte the techniques, what you do is your choice. Basically it can be applied to any organic model.


Rogue

Remi
07-31-2003, 12:08 AM
Todd Grimes...Extremely profession and dependable...unlike other unmentionables....his dvd's are great and priceless for anyone trying to get into animaiton....i'd say they were even more intermediate to advanced...great though....:)

yakumo
10-15-2003, 10:24 PM
YES YES!!

Hopefully l be getting these soon:)

RobPowers
10-16-2003, 02:42 AM
I've got a complete set I am about to post on ebay if anyone is interested email me privately. rob@robpowers.com

ptaverner
10-16-2003, 03:13 AM
Here's where I left off. I haven't worked on this guy for a while.....

http://www.petertaverner.com/posts/lw/ptaverner-character-tests.jpg

a little animation test.....

http://www.petertaverner.com/posts/lw/ptaverner-test-scum.htm

same audio file with a little body movement. You can see the body movement isn't all that good. I do have the body animation DVD, but I jumped the gun and went ahead on my own. :( Looks like I'm going to be viewing the DVD pretty soon huh?!?!?!? Here's the link.....

http://www.petertaverner.com/posts/lw/ptaverner-test-scum-body.htm


I found these DVDs very very good. Todd does a GREAT job of explaning what he's doing and why. I'm a newbie LW user and these helped me create something cool in a short amount of time.

As far as the DVDs helping a newbie learn LW, I think there would be better learning tools/books out there. These DVDs are great, no doubt, but they're not about teaching you LW from square one.

Peter

Sil3
10-16-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Shade01
Here's a question: What do you guys think about this training DVD teaching with such stylized characters? If someone were just learning both the software and about proper anatomy, I would think this DVD would be a detriment to proper learning, because the proportions are so far off and teach a lot of bad habits. Is this the only style that Todd Grimes can do?


I havent seen Grimes DVDīs, but im a FAN of heīs 3d work by a long time.

If someone is using the DVDīs to learn the software, yes i think someone will learn it very well, not only we learn what tools to use, but we also learn on how to use them.

Regardding the fact that this is a exagerated proportions of a cartoon super hero, so what? Yes we can learn anatomy just by modeling this, in fact sometimes when i want to achieve something real i skecth an exageration before, why? it helps me to undersatnd and feel the form better, maybe itīs only me, but it actually helps me. Of course that if anyone wants to learn "proper" anatomy, that same someone must not only be confined to what he seeīs in those DVDīs, there are books out there, there are cameras to take pictures, and there are art classes.

About "this is the only style that he ca do" even if it is (wich i doubt) isnīt he entitled to make art on whatever style he wants? Itīs not nice and good art because itīs not realistic?

Do you read comic books? How many "realistisc" artistīs are drawing them? Take a real close look to what Jim Lee and a LOT others do, if that is realist...well, not in my book it isnīt, it may appear realistic, but the proportions are completly off, super exagerated, all muscles and veins showing like they where naked and in tension all the time, even though they have cloths or spandex suits on them. But still, some of those drawing styles are extremly apelative and look really nice and cool. If u have a chance, go to a Comic Book convention, talk with some of those artist, 50-60% of them will tell u that they never had extensive Nude Figure classes in their lives, and most of them learned how to draw by copying others, and copying others "mistakes".

Drawing/Modeling realistic should not be what makes a good artist, of course someone who can draw/model realistic stuff is an incredible gifted artist, but that should not be what only counts. No matter what style u choose to make your art, consistency and making things beliavable are required, just look at Simon Bisley artwork, itīs not realist at all, but it is beliavable. Alex Ross art is impressive, realist and beliavable, Jean "Moebius" Giroud has 2 distinct styles, a more realist one when he draws as Jean Giroud, and a more cartoony when he signs as Moebius, i love both of them. Does it really matters that much to be so "realistic"? I dont think so, but this is only my opinions :)

yakumo
10-16-2003, 08:28 PM
oh my god, those examples are brillant, how long did it take you to learn that with those DVDs??. Can't wait!!

richcz3
10-16-2003, 09:38 PM
I always wrack my brain when modeling heads, and this 1st DVD made my jaw drop. I have used everything from Spline modeling to box modeling and never was quite satisfied with the results.

I recieved my DVD's yesterday and can definately say right now that his techniques have opened my eyes up to allot more possibilities. So far from what I have viewed the course, it is very well structured and open ended. I don't know that I would suggest it for beginners, but for Lightwavers with moderate skills and above, they should look into this set.

As for the stylized vs. realistic models, I was a little reserved about the "Toon" look. However now, I would say that Todds methods could easily be tuned to meet more exacting figures with a nominal amount of work. As long as someone has access to photo or drawn refferences, I can not see how these techniques could not be applied.

:thumbsup:

richcz3

yakumo
10-16-2003, 09:47 PM
Great stuff, to be honest I'm a beginner but no doubt l be able to learn how to model well especially during the short time l have to make a small animatin feature for my project. l was thinking along the same lines, that the DVDs would equip you skills so you could basically apply it to anything you wish to model or make

ptaverner
10-17-2003, 08:27 PM
Yakumo: With these DVDs you will end up creating a character very similar to Todds. I tried to make mine look a little different. ( bags under the eyes, etc )
You'll really like the DVDs. Todd does a great job!

Peter

Shade01
10-18-2003, 04:15 AM
@Sil3- This thread is months old and so is my question, and that's all it was was a question. You seem awfully defensive about it for some reason.

Sil3
10-18-2003, 01:18 PM
Hummm, yah reading it back it might seem that way, not my intention, sometimes itīs hard to trying to get things across in english for me, sorry :blush:

yakumo
10-18-2003, 03:59 PM
Where's the love guys, l love to see tutorial by you Shade if you ever do one?

AndrewE
10-18-2003, 05:17 PM
Dood, Give him sunglasses!

Like those corny 70's kind, the aviation ones. Then put when little jewelry like today's sunglasses in a shape of his symbol.

Yeah, that'd be pimpin'

haha

xtrm3d
10-18-2003, 10:05 PM
hello.. interesting and really good work you did..
the only stuff that bother me.. is ok.. dont misunderstand me .. i try to find the right words..
you learned out of this dvd some new techniqe..right ?
and i think when i look at your result that you understanded it very well ..cool
but itīs make me sade to see that your charachter is looking to almost 90 % the same way as the dvd charchter .. ..
i think that you should have try to come with your own charchter and not copy the demo one ..
dont want to be rude..i mean.. you understanded the modelling process really well... why not do your own creation ..???

no imitation.. does creation :wavey:

ptaverner
10-18-2003, 11:20 PM
xtrm3d: I agree with you. But being a LW newbie, I followed the tutorial closely. I didn't want to stray too far off what was being shown. AFTER I had finished the character I changed his look a little.

Having picked up some of how LW works, I'll be creating my own character next time. ( I have one in mind already. :) )

Peter

xtrm3d
10-18-2003, 11:28 PM
But being a LW newbie
then congartulation.. for a newbie you did a clean job



AFTER I had finished the character I changed his look a little.

humm realy ..ok..but not enough for my tast i can recognise him over a mille away.. :shrug:



I'll be creating my own character next time
this is really good.. and if you doe it with the same quality as this one.. it would be 200% better ..
100 % cause you did a good job + 100 % cause you would do something that come out of you ..:applause: :applause: :wavey:

ptaverner
10-19-2003, 12:41 AM
Thank you. :)

I just visited your website. EVERYONE should visit!! You have some outstanding work there! Nice command of the software, and great personal style!!!!!!!!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Peter

LittleFenris
10-19-2003, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by roguenroll
I completely disagree, the funny thing is that while I was watching and learning with these DVDs, I didn't make any kind of humaniod character.

The fact is he HAS to be modelling some thing to demonstrte the techniques, what you do is your choice. Basically it can be applied to any organic model.

Rogue

I agree completely. I took what I learned in the videos and made this character which i have already made the skelegons and basic model for (no endomorphs or clothing quite yet). I'm modeling clothing and some weapons (he'll be a samurai kitten) right now.

http://vwtornado.baked.net/Fenris_Web/JPGs/Rocco_Katana2.jpg

http://vwtornado.baked.net/Fenris_Web/JPGs/Rocco_Bones.jpg

I will be creating a short animation with him and another character in the next few months. Those Todd Grimes DVDs took literally MONTHS off of my learning curve. :buttrock:

roguenroll
10-19-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by VWTornado
I agree completely. I took what I learned in the videos and made this character which i have already made the skelegons and basic model for (no endomorphs or clothing quite yet). I'm modeling clothing and some weapons (he'll be a samurai kitten) right now.



cool, did you ever get the UV problem solved, I saw a few days back, kinda looks like it.;)

Rogue

LittleFenris
10-19-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by roguenroll
cool, did you ever get the UV problem solved, I saw a few days back, kinda looks like it.;)

Rogue

Well, I didn't know the whole head needed to be one surface for the multiple UVs to work on it. Plus I changed to a cylindrical UV map around the head, and I'll be adding more UV maps for detail (and to cover up the pinching of the cylindrical UV on the top of his head). So, yes, I did fix the problem. :D I haven't tried layering UVs yet, so I'm still not sure if all my details will work...but I'll figure it out eventually...or with the help of all you nice CGTalk people. :beer:

yakumo
12-04-2003, 08:18 PM
Hi,

l'm having problems with modelling the head at the moment, l tried remaking it from scratch ever single time but lm still stumped at the same bit

l was hoping if anyone can help me, and l send the model to show them whats wrong.

please?

roguenroll
12-04-2003, 09:34 PM
post a piccy

yakumo
12-04-2003, 09:47 PM
to be honest l rather send the obj file, and see whats wrong

roguenroll
12-05-2003, 08:28 AM
I can take a look, film@fmotion.net

just let me the exact problem, and how far along on the project you are.

If you posted the file other could look, there are a few people here who have the Todd DVDs.

yakumo
12-05-2003, 07:42 PM
Excellent!

l'm too embarssed to show what l have done thats why:blush:

LittleFenris
12-05-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by yakumo
Excellent!

l'm too embarssed to show what l have done thats why:blush:

I wouldn't be embarassed, its called learning. You learn by doing...and of course in doing something, you are bound to screw it up or not get it right the first time or three. Lets see some screens!! If we can see, maybe we can help. :wip:

yakumo
12-05-2003, 07:53 PM
well l had the obj file but the CD l burnt on was corrupted!!, really. l can upload tomorrow, but lm fed up with being stuck at the same place, l can't continue since its looks all screwy

LittleFenris
12-05-2003, 08:26 PM
Sometimes it IS better to just start over or move on.

yakumo
12-05-2003, 08:30 PM
l started over 5 times now!!!

Even if l did moved on l simply can't becasue my moel doesn't look anything like the one Todd is showing, well it sort of does so l must be missing something.

Sent u a pm man too!!

LittleFenris
12-05-2003, 09:20 PM
i actually played with the DVDs in lightwave w/o my key in, so i couldn't save what i had done, sorry. i forgot my LW key wasn't in before i started. and mines the parallel, not USB key, so its not hot-swapable. :shrug: I was getting pretty good results following along with Todd. I would say you just need to practice, practice, practice. I've been using Lightwave on and off since I bought [6] 2+ years ago (and even used LW4 on an Amiga back in the day). I don't do 3D all the time, so im not near as advanced as i'm sure others were after 2 years using it, but i also dont spend my life modeling. :wip:

yakumo
12-05-2003, 09:21 PM
ok l post the obj file tomorrow with some screenshots , l need to know badly where lm going wrong!!

roguenroll
12-05-2003, 09:40 PM
yeah dude, just post it, show some screenshots. LW has a hell of a helpful community.

Sounds intially like you may just have a few of the techniques that you don't quite have a grasp on, believe me I've been there, and then after you figure that out theres a ton more to learn.

but its all a fun learning curve.

R
:)

yakumo
12-05-2003, 09:55 PM
Its addictive, however, I'm so frustrated not knowing what I'm doing wrong at the moment. I know it has to be something with the smooth shift function, however, l need someone to look at my obj file and screenshot.

yakumo
12-06-2003, 05:29 PM
Here's the onj file:

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/KaiYakumo/Yakumo.lwo


l couldn't get any screenshots since l had work in the morning. Anyway I'm at the stage where you have to smoothshift the brows in the middel, however, l think there's something wrong with the model at the moment.

cheers

roguenroll
12-06-2003, 09:08 PM
I think I solved your problem

http://desktopimages.com/Download.shtml

two addendums to the DVDS

yakumo
12-06-2003, 09:23 PM
cool, have to check this at home, however, how does this apply to my model?

Can you explain where l have gone wrong?

thank you

roguenroll
12-06-2003, 09:40 PM
not yet, but the part thats missing on the DVD starts with explaining how to do the eyes and brows.

I assumed since it wasnt covered thats why you had problems.

let me know

yakumo
12-06-2003, 09:41 PM
nope, l think i'm before that bit:blush:

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