Help with cluster parenting!

[Boucha]

Hello Charlie boy,

Yes this is a double transformation issue. What I suggest is you use a layered approach for this. You can create clusters on separate geometry, you can then use a blendshape from cluster geometry to the actual rigged geometry. The controllers in the face can then be connected to cluster using connection editor for transformation. This way you will not encounter the double transformation and easily layer the cluster deformation over the rigged character...:D

The thing is that when you use constraints, the transformation of entire hierarchy of the controller will effect the transformation of the cluster where as using a direct connection will just trigger transformation on the basis of the controller.

[theflash]

When you use constraints you are working in world space, this will create a problem because anything that manipulates your controller will also move your clusters. So you need to work in local space of your controllers to drive clusters. How about direct connecting controllers to clusters? It may work in your setup.

[CharleyBoy]

thanks guys for the reply!the flash: do you mean connecting the cluster to the controler by the connectino editor instead of a constraint or parenting?

I will try and give feedback...

[CharleyBoy]

Yes It works....

Direct connection of translate, rotate scale in connection editor... Follow perfectly.

but there is a problem, see two post below

[theflash]

Cool! Good to know it's working :thumbsup:

[CharleyBoy]

There is a problem with this solution... When I turn the head, for exemple 90 degrees, the cluster are moving in world direction when controlers are moving in local direction...

How can I fix this ???


http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/cbernadet/images%20to%20post/cluster_issue.jpg

[theflash]

So is everything in the rig on the same mesh?

In that case you will have to go for what Suchan suggested, using a layered approach. Make your cluster rig a blendshape to your main head mesh, blendshape node below the skin cluster in input list.

[CharleyBoy]

Yes everything is rig on the same mesh.

I just duplicate with connection my mesh to keep my cluster job on the mesh.... (don't want to rebuild from scratch...) can I remove the connection to my skinCluster and Blendshapes without removing it from my original mesh???
I tried with Hypergraph, but it removes it from both mesh....

Or, Can i copy my clusters and parallel blender to a new mesh with no connection???

[CharleyBoy]

Oh, i found it... It's my deformation order.... my parallelBlender has to be under my skincluster... so it works pretty well....

Something i don't understand, When I go to my List of input operation, I can't MMB drag my parallelBlender under my SkinCluster.... it removes it...
The only way i found to do it is to delete the SkinCluster, reSkin it, but import weighting doesn't work well.... as usual ;)

Anybody know how to reorder the history of my skincluster????

[Dragon]

This is probably due to the fact that your deformations are hapening at the origin and your controls are moving in object space. So when you are moving your control in Y (head up) the deformation moves in the Y direction at the origin. But when you rotate your head and move it in the Y, it is actually the X direction at the orogin. A way to get around this is to leave your controls at the origin, and make a duplicate version that follows the head. Then connectAttr the T, R, and S attributes from the head copy to the origin. This way you can move the copy in Y (X when the head is rotated) and it will pump in Y values to the ones at the origin. This make sense?
Hope it helps.

[CharleyBoy]

Hi Dragon!

I understand what you explain, this is exactly the problem here. But, as you can see in my previous post (you were probably writing yours when I posted it) I can fix the issue by reorder the parallelBlender under my SkinCluster.... the problem is I can't reorder in the List of input operation (Maybe I'm doing it wrong), but I can remove my skincluster and reSkin it, so it is placed before my ParallelBlender, but reimport skinweight is crappy....

I can of course copy an old skin weight, but i would like to know how to reordre manually my Input.... As i said, i probably do it wrong, so if anybody know.... or have a command mel who can reorder this...

Thanks for posting!!

[Dragon]

oh I see... the probleblem is the parallel weight blend. It doesn't play nice withe other deformers, since you want a front of chain blend anyway, delete your blendshape node that you have and create a FOC blend. This will allow you to reorder as you want. Stay awayy from parallel if at all possible.
Hope it helps.

[CharleyBoy]

Thanks Dragon for Helping...

I think the problem is resolved. I just recopy the skinweight finally...
My Blendshapes were Front of Chain... it was my clusters who were parallel...

Thank you everyone for helping me with this issue!! Really appreciate!

[Dragon]

Oh, that's interesting... I didn't even know that option existed for clusters...hmmm...
It looks like a similar issue as the parallel blend though (I believe it's using the same node). The paralleBlender does some magic under the hood trying to keep deformers all at the same level in the deformation order (look at your hypergraph, you'll see an extra mesh is created and feeding directly into the deformer). This is a very fragil setup and causes havoc when trying to reorder deformers. Like with blendshapes, it's probably better to avoid this option all together and use the default setting... I know it's too late for your rig, but this is going to give you headaches any time you need to do any deformation order changes.

[Boucha]

CharleyBoy,

Good to know that its finally working. The trick is to go for a layered approach and a FOC blendshape....:beer:

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