Female Facial Texturing WIP, please help!

[wazzup]

I think that THIS (http://www.cg-art.i12.com/main.html) site has the best texture tutorial for realistic texturing.

It is beond evil... its THAT good...

The site is pretty slow, but it is really worth the wait.

Post your updates!

[leigh]

Hey Tocpe, great to hear you enjoyed the Dummies workshops :D

This face is totally freaky! It looks like she is wearing theatre makeup, for some reason. And that almost shocked expression on her face gives me shivers :surprised

Okay, on the subject of texturing:

1. Can I see some of your bump maps so I can study the placement and shapes of brushes used to create the various bump topology. It's cool if you want to watermark the image to protect it, I'm just interested in studying it. (Leigh, can I pretty pretty pretty please see your bump map?...hmmm that didn't sound right...

You want to see bump maps for human skin?

Ermmm... let me save out a copy of one that I am working on at the moment (sorry about the watermark, but I've had textures stolen before from me, so now I watermark my textures that I put on the web).

The original size of this image was 2000x2000, but my uploading is sooo slow that I don't think it would upload an image that large (I am on a dialup).

Here you go: http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/temp/aragorn_skin_head_bmp.jpg

I hope it helps somewhat :)

2. I've seen discussions on brushes, but what kind of sources do you use to create the brushes. Creating them is no problem, the trick is how do you figure out what would be a good source, and what kind of things tend to lead themselves to good texturing/bump map brushes?

Hmmm it really depends on the situation. Sometimes I actually paint funny little things that I then convert into a brush, and sometimes I'll take arbitrary parts of photos and play around with them and then use parts of them as brushes.

In the end there are 1000 ways to end up with any particular type of look or effect - making your own brushes is just one way.

For bump maps I generally tend to just paint with the dodge and burn tools in Photoshop. I also copy layers from my color map and desaturate them and then alter them until I get the right effect.

But like I said, it really depends on the situation...

Be sure to check out the link wazzup gave - Julians texturing work is sublime!

[Tocpe]

Originally posted by Leigh

This face is totally freaky! It looks like she is wearing theatre makeup, for some reason. And that almost shocked expression on her face gives me shivers :surprised


Yeah she is a freaky one isn't she? :) I'm not too worried about the model itself, I'm mainly working on textures. I just kinda threw that one together.

Thanks for the bumpmap. I totally understand about the watermark. It is going on the net after all. Who knows who's lookin' :)

The original size of this image was 2000x2000, but my uploading is sooo slow that I don't think it would upload an image that large (I am on a dialup).
I though his bump would have been a higher resolution...hmmm, well it's good to know I don't necessarily have to bring my system to its knees to get a good image. From the looks of the image you posted, it's kinda hard to tell how much variation there is on the actual skin. Are you starting with a base of R128 G128 B128 and working up from that? Like adding a darker grey of about 5% for recesses, and a lighter grey of about 5% for bumps?

I guess for the brushes I'll need to find some high res close ups and just study the shape and depth of the bump and recesses on the skin. :)

But like I said, it really depends on the situation... Ah, so there really isn't a necessarily one way every time, just some loose rules to go by and tweak each bump map?

Be sure to check out the link wazzup gave - Julians texturing work is sublime!

Yeah I've checked his stuff out, mind blowing. He's really got it down doesn't he? :)

Thanks Leigh

[leigh]

I though his bump would have been a higher resolution...

If I had a more powerful PC, I would make them a lot larger :D

From the looks of the image you posted, it's kinda hard to tell how much variation there is on the actual skin. Are you starting with a base of R128 G128 B128 and working up from that? Like adding a darker grey of about 5% for recesses, and a lighter grey of about 5% for bumps?

Well, in this case I started off by desaturating the color layers and then adjusting their blending to get the look I was after.

I then went in with the dodge and burn tools and did details like the lips, the wrinkles around the eyes and such.

When I am working with grayscale texturing maps, I never really paint as such, I always use lots of layers with blending that I just adjust, and then the dodge and burn tools.

I guess for the brushes I'll need to find some high res close ups and just study the shape and depth of the bump and recesses on the skin

Yeah just get loads of good references and then paint them by hand. Once you get the hang of it, you'll never have a problem again :)

Ah, so there really isn't a necessarily one way every time, just some loose rules to go by and tweak each bump map?

Absolutely! :D You develop your own little tricks of doing things, and little habits and from there it's just a matter of adapting to any new texturing situation. Texturing is more about thinking than about creativity, in my opinion. So it's more of a logical function, and therefore adaptation to new situations is pretty simple. Well, that's how I approach it anyhow.

Yeah I've checked his stuff out, mind blowing. He's really got it down doesn't he?

Hell yeah, his work is absolutely bloody incredible!!

Thanks Leigh

Anytime! :D

[Tocpe]

Originally posted by Leigh
If I had a more powerful PC, I would make them a lot larger :D
I hear that, I'm blessed at work to have a screaming machine, but a home...it's not quite the same story. :(

When I am working with grayscale texturing maps, I never really paint as such, I always use lots of layers with blending that I just adjust, and then the dodge and burn tools.

Ok cool, that's a lot more comforting knowing I don't have to start from scratch all the time. That's how Julian does it right from scratch? That's just a little too much for a beginner. :) Maybe after I get a bit more experience. :)

Absolutely! :D You develop your own little tricks of doing things, and little habits and from there it's just a matter of adapting to any new texturing situation. Texturing is more about thinking than about creativity, in my opinion. So it's more of a logical function, and therefore adaptation to new situations is pretty simple. Well, that's how I approach it anyhow.
That's why I liked your tutorials Leigh, you explained the theory, so you could adapt it to any situation.

Thanks again! I think I'm gonna work on bump amps this moring and maybe, maybe rework the color map...It's kinda bothering me now. I found some stuff about HDRI on Friday and I think I'll start rendering with that for this test since it really helped me with the soft look I wanted, plus I got some really nice eye reflections...but it's just soooo slow...:-)

[Tocpe]

It's amazing howbig a difference just the lighting can have an effect in a scene... :eek:

Latest rendering with HDRI:

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/cg/Liza/HDRI-7-28-03-7.55.jpg

[Cyborgguineapig]

Much better but she still has that shocked look in her eyes.:)

[Kel Solaar]

Close her eyes a little and i think it will be better, iris in a neutral pose and expression should be coverred a little by the upper eyelid. Sorry for my poor english :annoyed:

[Tocpe]

Okay new update. I've applied a bump and Spec map. I added a couple of lights tuned just for adding specular highlights. What do you guys and gals think? What needs to be tweaked when it comes to the texturing and lighting.

BTW, I lowered the eyelids a bit like Cyborgguineapig and Kel suggested. :)


http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/cg/Liza/7-28-03-3.47.jpg

[Tocpe]

I wanna thank everyone for their help last time, especially Leigh! :applause:

This is a new WIP, again, a learning model. She's a morphed Daz Victoria so I'm concentrating on textures and lighting here. I'd love to hear feedback, help, suggestions, anything you guys and gals can thing to help achive a more photo realistic appearance. I plan on adding hair to this character using the Hair Department plugin since for this test I don't have Shave and a Haircut (looks wicked!)

Stats: C4D 8XL with Advanced Render and HDRI lighting. one key and fill.

I'd have a back light too, but everytime I turn the darn thing on, somehow the light shines through her head and her eyes "glow"....wierd....

http://www.deepwaterstudios.com/cg/Aida/08.08.03-8.10.jpg

Comments, complaints, suggestions? :)

[Kel Solaar]

That's much better now ! :)

[Tocpe]

:) Thanks! I've been doing a LOT of reading and studying from CGTalk and from the websites of the members from here.:)

[Locutus]

Can you post an image of your texture maps?

[rodrigoaiz]

can we see a wire!! please!!

[leigh]

That's coming along really nicely, Tocpe :thumbsup:

The shading is definitely improving but is not quite there yet. You need to get those nice edges that skin has. Do you gave a backlight for this character? Perhaps adding one would help to give some edges to the skin. Also, does C4D have SSS?

I have been working on a skin WIP this week as well, and have been exploring the world of skin shading (as opposed to mere texturing). I found that what works really really well is that once you have created a nice soft skin look with edges (which is a point you are close to now), then you you harden it up and give it some substance with a spec map. Especially with areas like the nose where you want the skin to look a teeny bit thinner and to give the impression of the bone just beneath the skin, the spec map works really well by having higher values in those areas. Using a reflection map that is similar to the spec map really works wonders as well :)

With regards to the shading and edges, take a look at my WIP so far here (clickety click (http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/images/carnie_007.jpg)) - look at the render on the left, and take a close look at his left cheek. See how there is an almost greenish edge along the skin? That is the sort of effect you need to give the impression of the SSS qualities that skin has ;)
My WIP is not yet finished, but I hope you can see what I am talking about. If you look at the render here (clickety click again (http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/images/carnie_006.jpg)) you can see the effect a little more clearly on a black background.
I am using an SSS shader for LW for this effect - if C4D has an SSS shader, try playing around with it!

Add some translucency to her ears, as they are looking too hard and too thick. Ears especially should have softened edges and should have a fair amount of translucency. Ears should never have such black shadows on them.

Looking forward to an update!

[Tocpe]

Locutus
Well the only thing I have really worked out for kinda sort of sure is the color map. The rest are in some kinda flux right now. I can post a watermarked version if you'd like. It's not much at this point though. :)

Leigh
Thanks Leigh! :)

I have a backlight set up in the scene, but every time I turn the sucker on, somehow, it "lights up" my model's eyes and they wash out. I don't know what's causing it, I'm trying to figure out the cause.

SSS, hmmm I don't think C4D has it built in, even in the advanced renderer...can anyone one out there confirm or deny that? I'm used to working with Max. My new job they use Macs and C4D. I kinda wish they used Lightwave or Maya, but for now I gotta work with what I have. They are interested in photorealism so if C4D can't fully produce that by using SSS then we might have to look at a more powerful package.

Any C4D users out there?

I found that what works really really well is that once you have created a nice soft skin look with edges (which is a point you are close to now), then you you harden it up and give it some substance with a spec map.
I've got a bit of one applied, but it's tricky. With my current settings (at least I think it's me...) the spec seems to be either waaaaay too much on or barely there like it is now...gonna have to keep playing with it and figure it out...the manuals are only so helpful :(

Especially with areas like the nose where you want the skin to look a teeny bit thinner and to give the impression of the bone just beneath the skin, the spec map works really well by having higher values in those areas. Using a reflection map that is similar to the spec map really works wonders as well
So as a general rule, areas where the bone/cartlidge is close to the skin, the specular value should be higher/more visible. I've noticed the nose shineyness you're talking about. It's similar on the chin and forehead and to a smaller bit a touch on the cheeks too right?
I'm having similar troubles with the reflection map as I am with the spec map. I was reading on Julian's site about the reflection map. I'm guessing that it should be tied into/pretty close to the spec map layout, except in color?

I noticed the SSS effect in your current model...very cool. Why did you choose green though? Was it to make his skin have kind of a sickish glow to it? I'm sure that's one of the major effects I'm missing like you said. I don't know if C4D ships with a SSS shader or not, hmmm gonna have to crack the book again.

Translucency is another hurdle I've got, I found a couple of free plug-ins that claim to help but I dunno. Believe it or not, they were applied to the last render I posted...obviously something isn't right, cause I'm not seeing it either... :(

I think the first thing I'm gonna tackle is the backlight. Then translucency, then SSS (if possible) and then tweak my maps. Sound like a plan Leigh? :)

On a different note, do you know why sometimes I get a message in posting to CGTalk that say's I've posted too many image links or smiley faces. Sometimes I'll get it when posting a message with like only two or three smileys, and yet I see some posts with 10 of those things, one right after another. What gives?

Thanks for all your help Leigh! Can't wait for your book. It'll be available here in the US right?

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