Nurbs Modeling Part 2

[Mazer]

Wel first, you should show a wireframe saded screen ;-)

1- You must almost always rebuild the surfaces ( edit nurbs menu )wen you model in Nurbs, Have you tried using square instead?
2- I realy can't understan you question.. you meen smooth them?

3- Surfaces ...> atach surfaces (open the option window and play around till you get wath you want)

[okno]

are you working on subaru?

[TheShaddix]

thanks for replying man. It really helped me a lot.
By smooth i meant to make it a good surface without those wrinkles.

Okno, im not workin on subaru tutorial if u meant that, but i did try to do it, cant really get that right, i cant make fillet work, and i cant extrude the projected curve on surface so its really extruded inwards; all it does is forming a shape behind the surface that curve was on. If you can help me out with that nurbs problem please contact me by msn or aim.
msn: seriousdennis@hotmail.com
aim: xphoeniix

[okno]

OK men, there was a men and he was working on subaru and i was thinking that it was you.

To you question:
I cant help - i started With MAYA yesterday :-)
(i was warking with Cinema4D)

[stallion151]

when you rebuild a surface and your not happy with it don't be afraid to delete and work on another one, that can be quicker to delete than to continuely modify until your happy with it.

When you rebuild it duplicate some surface curves from that that will assist you on your next try and use them.

For smooth it should interpolate between those curves so the more curves the more angular it will become.

To attach make sure your spans are the same where you want to attach. Amount of spans are in your Attribute Editor under Nurbs Surface History.
If you have 2 4 and your other surface is 3 4 then it would probably be better to increase the first one to match. But be careful not to add to many isoparms, its important to know whether to rebuild lower or higher so keep it in mind.

When your ready to attach, for good measure use global stitch to match the topology flow, then attach surface or attach without moving (select isoparms).

Its not necessary to attach surfaces especially for cars just as long as they share the same surface flow then it should be fine. you convert to poly and merge or just group them.

[TheShaddix]

yo stallion, thanks a lot man, u helped me a lot with this nurbs topic. But what if i dont want to convert it to poly and i want to work with nurbs? Does it matter if you convert or not?
And ur saying that i should delete an undesirable surface and work on another one??? i dont get that part, sorry. If you delete ur surfaces all the time just cuz u dont like them then how are u going to ever get the surface u need w/o even workin on it?? Maybe i misunderstood you man, but this question is really confusing me.

[TheShaddix]

Oh, and i forgot to ask one more question:
whats the best processor for maya , athlon or pentium, or dual pentium or whatever? what would you guys rather get? Please reply if you really know the difference.

[TheShaddix]

guys, why when i create EP curve and i wanna move one point all the points are being affected??? Like i move one point and other points are moving in the opposite directions????????
CAn i turn it off or something?

[Streamlight]

duals are good if you want to render with one proc and use the other one to keep working or of course you can render with both. Athlon can also go dual. I'm not to sure of the diff but dual Xeons with multi threading rock. ;)

[TheShaddix]

yo guys, does anyone know how to make good sharp edges on the nurbs surface, for instance, after a birail i get a nice hood(bonnet), but i want to add details to it such as that thing running accross it, and i want to make a pretty sharp edge, not just moving the vertices,. Is there any other way to make good edges instead of adding isoparms and then moving a countless number of vertices? PLease describe all the steps required.

[dmcgrath]

Originally posted by vertexstudios
yo guys, does anyone know how to make good sharp edges on the nurbs surface, for instance, after a birail i get a nice hood(bonnet), but i want to add details to it such as that thing running accross it, and i want to make a pretty sharp edge, not just moving the vertices,. Is there any other way to make good edges instead of adding isoparms and then moving a countless number of vertices? PLease describe all the steps required.

Not really, vertex. You will need a minimum of three edges wherever you want a sharp edge. But you don't have to select the verts seperately, you can select entire hulls also.

If you want a sharp edge, without too many edges.

\_

like this. You can use two seperate NURBS patches, and just butt them together.

Or when you attach them, you can fool around with the attaching options and keep the original shapes, it will add extra isoparms for you to try and preserve the shape.

[TheShaddix]

thanks man, really good reply, i tried to make 3 isoparms with a very little space in between and it gave me a nice sharp edge, not really sharp, but nice one. If i get any more questions which im sure i will, ill ask you guys again. Thanks everyone for replying me.

[TheShaddix]

ok, here is what i got so far, www.vertexstudios.net/images/problem2.jpg
i still cant get that will arch look right. Is there any way i can move that isoparm that was a result of trim??
I want to move it and create one just like it but with a greater diameter, is that possible to make it an isoparm??

Here is what im aiming at
www.vertexstudios.net/images/problem2add.jpg

If anyone can answer my question please tell me all the steps required in obtaining a nice wheel arch. and also, how do i make it look as a real arch with all them fillets and stuff????

Or if anyone has suggestions or a better way of making a wheel arch please do tell.

Thanks.

[Streamlight]

In the first image you made that bend where the wheel is by using trim.. when you trim you cant select that iso.

[dmcgrath]

You need to select that trim edge, and then go to Duplicate surface curves. Then I think that will do it.

[stallion151]

Originally posted by vertexstudios
...And ur saying that i should delete an undesirable surface and work on another one??? i dont get that part, sorry. If you delete ur surfaces all the time just cuz u dont like them then how are u going to ever get the surface u need w/o even workin on it?? Maybe i misunderstood you man, but this question is really confusing me.

yeh i meant that, but dont just delete it. Duplicate curves from the bad surface and use those to assist with building a better surface, to help get the tangents/topology, easier.

Have a look in the Subaru tutorial on Boris3d, has alot of good info relating to what your after.

[Streamlight]

Originally posted by dmcgrath
You need to select that trim edge, and then go to Duplicate surface curves. Then I think that will do it.

I dont think that you can select trim edges..

[stallion151]

yes you can

subaru trim edge (http://www.gmask.com/tutorials/wrx_tutorial/Tutorial/pages/book_pages/Book045.shtml)

[TheShaddix]

thanks you all. Now i have a decent understanding of the basics of nurbs. But still, i have some questions.

1.) after i trim edges the old vertices that were on the surface i trimmed out are still there. See the image below: www.vertexstudios.net/images/problem3.jpg
How can i delete them?? and if i delete them just by literally deleting them my other surface gets cut off.

2.) When i circular fillet two surfaces i get a fillet whether in between the two other surfaces or larger. How can i avoid it and why that guy(subary tutorial) made such a nice fillet?
And how can i attach all 3 surfaces together to make it a one piece??
What are ur opinions on this one.
Image here: www.vertexstudios.net/images/problem3Fillet.jpg

3.) And how would u make a good hood(bonnet) for this kind of car?
here is the image: www.vertexstudios.net/images/probmel3cont.jpg

After that i get a lot of isoparms just manually rebuilding them, adding and deleting, moving them and such. Am i doing a right thing? First, i made a basic surface with one "wrinkle"(thing running across the bonnet(hood), then i started adding isoparms and stuff, moving control vertices and achieving sharp edges.
Now, HOW would any of you here do it instead of this way? Or anybody would do it the same way??
Lets hear people out.

[dmcgrath]

1) Maya needs those CV's to keep surface continuity. There is no way to delete them without destroying your surface.

2) I need to know which page you are talking about, with the circular fillet. In answer to your question how Michel Thompson did such a good job. The only answer is practice. He didn't do it all in on shot I'm sure. As for the other points, most times you won't need to actually attach the pieces, and you can't really attach anything to the inside of a trim surface (from what I remember).

3) Yhour hood is pretty good so far. One tool no one has probably ever told you about is the Wire Tool. It's in the animation section, under Deform. But this is a great tool to use for modeling, so are Lattices.

With the wire tool, you can have a Nurbs surface and then make it Live, so you can draw a curve across it. Make it Not Live after you are satisfied placing the curve. With the Wire tool selected click on the surface and hit the enter button, then click on one or more curves and hit enter again. It adds the same kind of influence that you would have if you lofted a couple of curves together (for example). Play around with the influence distance and things like that, it works really well,a dn then you can delete the history to kill the wire influence after deforming something.

[TheShaddix]

does anyone know how to fix the gasps caused by a fillet tool(circular fillet). I dunno how to make it like connected and stuff??
There is a space in between the surfaces. How would u fix it?

[TheShaddix]

www.vertexstudios.net/images/filletproblem.jpg

here is that image guys. I beleive that there is a solution to this problem. If anybody could please tell me how to fix the problem.

my friend and me are trying all the different tools but none of them seems to be fixin the probl.
Thanks for replying guys.

[AroundTheFur]

a lot of times that gap is only in the viewport. cranking up the tesselation on the surfaces will show no seam during rendering.

[TheShaddix]

is there any way i could stich the surfaces with the fillet together?
Maybe like to group them?
But can i do anything about that gasp before rendering?
I want a good mesh, without gasps.
Please reply if you really know the solution to my problem. I cannot proceed any further not knowing how to fix the gasps.
Thanks.

[trthing]

Originally posted by dmcgrath

With the wire tool, you can have a Nurbs surface and then make it Live, so you can draw a curve across it. Make it Not Live after you are satisfied placing the curve. With the Wire tool selected click on the surface and hit the enter button, then click on one or more curves and hit enter again. It adds the same kind of influence that you would have if you lofted a couple of curves together (for example). Play around with the influence distance and things like that, it works really well,a dn then you can delete the history to kill the wire influence after deforming something. [/B]

Just a curiosity: Maya won't let me select a curve created that way to be a wire deformer. Is there a way to detach the curve from the surface I used as "live"?

Yep, I tried to follow some steps posted somewhere else but still doesn't work: duplicate curve w/ grouping off and set it as a wire. I can complete the wire tool operation but moving the curve does not deform the nurbs surface.
Probably something dumb...

[dmcgrath]

vertex:
The only thing you can do is mess with the settings a bit more and try and close the gap. I don't think there is a magic solution to your problem. When you render it, is the gap still there? Many times it will show up in your viewport but not in the renders. Try deleting the history and rebuilding the surface, it might help.
Personally, I never use the fillet tools. I always build them by hand by lofting curves. But that is my preference.


trthing:
I might have forgot to mention that you need to duplicate the surface curve. Because the one on the surface is really just a virtual curve. Once its on the surface you can only really move it around to place it where you want it. Sorry about that.

[trthing]

dmcgrath: as I said on the previous post, I tried doing that but it isn't working (either Duplicate or Duplicate surface curves, group off).
The duplicate surface curve is apparently still dependant on the orignal curve I draw. Setting it as a wire deformer for the Nurbs plane calls a warning (cyclecheck blah blah) and makes no difference (I can move the wire and the plane goes unchanged).
I tried the procedure with a regular CV curve and it worked well as a wire deformer: there must be some step we are forgetting here. Using Maya 5.0.

I appreciate your help on this matter.

[trthing]

dmcgrath: to make it work as you suggested I had to Duplicate curve on surface (group off) then Duplicate (Copy, Parent) then use this last curve as a wire deformer.
There must be a simpler way...

[TheShaddix]

yo guys, i have a problem with a wheel arch for my car.
here is the image:
www.vertexstudios.net/images/1.jpg
how can i make it nice looking and whats the best way to make a wheel arch fillet?
Check out how the real mercedes looks like here:
http://autozine.kyul.net/gallery/mercedes/sl.htm

It looks like the fillet should be applied or?

Please anyone who really knows how to handle this kind of problem write an answer.
Any help is appreciated.

[TheShaddix]

hmm, will anyone respond to my post???

Doesnt anyone know the solution, ccmon you guys.

[MasonDoran]

to clean up the wheel arch just insert an isoparm on the lower bit that lines up with iso on the upper half....then detach it.

Also....when creating curves have how tried to align the tangencies? This is great for the smooth look that has sharp but rounded curves. U can then use the manipulators to alter the tangency to control how much the curves force them selves to align. Also, i strongly recommend learnig to use the square tool over the birail tool....simply because you can have 4 different curves that 4 different numbers of spans and be able to create a surface and rebuild them at the same time....and also be able to align the tangency to an adjacent surface you use the curves of that surface when using the square tool.

[Kabab]

I find the square tool bubbles my surface abit in the middle compared to the biral tool.

[MasonDoran]

it has to do with the tangency to the neighboring surfaces....to change them go into the channel box....select the square node and show manip

[TheShaddix]

thanks man, yeah, i tried all that stuff, none of it is what i wanted to know. My problem is how can i make exactly the same wheel arch as on the second image? With that kinda rounded but sharp edge and blended inside the main surface.
Can you guide me thru this uneasy solution?
I dont want just an edge like on that subaru tutorial where he just circle fillet the surface and hes done.
That model that im makin has that unusual wheel arch and my aim is to make it photorealistic, so i need to make all that stufff happen.
Thanks for reply.

[MasonDoran]

the gnomon vids walk u through it with a demonstration....cant say i have the patience to do a tutorial for you that is any better then the resources u have already.

The information we gave u DOES help...its applying it that u need to learn.

U have all the curves there already mate...but u need to stop thinking in a linear fashion when it comes to NURBS. More often then not....just duplicate the surface curves, delete what u dont want.....rebuild what u do like....and attach curves where need to be....that is the MOST of the work involved with these tools.

A very handy trick u should use a lot when doing cars is that once you point snap 2 curves together...use the Project tangent on them to have more control over the curvature of the curves...which u can then use to create a surface with other tools. You dont need to use fillets if you use the project tangent in combo with the square tool...

[MasonDoran]

and btw.....whats stopping u from using the scale tool to model the and bend the fender a bit to make rounder? u can even lock the pivot of the scale tool to position and always scale from there....

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