Scene: WW1 aircraft

[Joril]

These look ablsolutely awsome!
The colours, especially on the first pic look, look really great.

Great Job, care to show us the wireframes?

[smoke]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Simply amazing

[Xtra]

Very nice work! I never thought that you'll get so nice surfaces with a 'classical' CAD software.

[singleguy]

too good to be true:beer:

[mmiller]

Joril
wireframe - I'll see, I finished this image a couple of months ago and I'm not sure if i saved the file setup.

Xtra - Classical CAD
you don't know how true that is
I'm using an OLD version of the software, just a dumb surface modler.
I don't mind the modeling tools - but the lighting and mapping capabilities are pretty minimal.
Thanks for the comments
Mark

here's a side view of the same Camel model with a few corrections and improvements that I added since I generated the scenes:

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/B_B6299.jpg

[Oktavian]

Wow, I like your Sopwith. Very good modeling but with strange colours IMHO, but I also have to say that I'm not really sure about that. :thumbsup:

[enoc]

wow amazing job the textures look really good and so does the environment

[Clanger]

Fantastic stuff, the textures are something else.
I love this hyper real look, all the blemishes are there but everything looks pristine as well.

Do you texture map everything? or are there some procedrals sneaked in?

Plus, what texture res do you manage to get away with? I'm wondering about heavely texturing a complicated model but I worry about my machine running out of ram or the whole thing taking months to render, is it a problem?

[mmiller]

Hi Clanger
Yes - I pretty much map everything
I do have a large library of standard texture maps for various materials that I use repeatedly for small structures like control horns or fittings. And I suppose these would fall under the heading of "procedural"

as for map size -
for example, the map that covers the side of the fuse from just aft where the stripes are to the back is 2400 X 590 pixels
(essentialy the green part)
and most of the maps are in the same general resolution range.
Is that considered big?
I honestly don't know as i have been working on my own for years.

I am not entirely sure as to how much time this map size adds to a render. But my general impression is that the complexity of the model is much more of a factor.
And of course output filesize
The originals for these images are about 5000 pixels across.
The real size problem comes up when you start building the .PSD file in photoshop

One problem I have had with maps is that my software can be a little unstable and i have had a lot of crashes during the phase where it loads up all the maps for a render.
Very annoying.

One factor that might be helping me out wiith the memory issue is that my software has tha ability to render in bands.
That and the fact that my current PC has 2GIG of RAM :cool:

BTW - I have a mesh, but it is pretty much useless at 20K and where I post my images is not realy a CG oriented site, so they probably wouldn't want my wires up on their server.
sorry

Mark

[starqueen]

:beer: awesome

[D. Phoenix]

Excellent work, scene composition is as well done as the modelling.

Only minor suggestion which is largely optional- perhaps some sort of displacement, bump, or shag hair grass to break up the flat ground?

[Phoric]

Thats really good work, actually I'm kinda surprised it isn't plugged yet. I'd like to see a render with some action in the air, with guns blazing. :) Maybe a couple bullet holes, a shredded part of a wing, a little smoke billowing out of the engine or exhaust... :thumbsup:

[mmiller]

Hi
The first image was printed in the last issue of the UK magazine Cross & Cockade. And, as it turns out, the serial number on the foreground AC is incorrect. The magazine has been getting a lot of complaints so they asked me to revise it so they can print a correction.

I have my own set of issues with that image so I figure I'll go back into it in a big way. Also, i have spent quite a bit of time improving the basic camel model since I rendered this out so i figure that I will at least re-render Maude II.

Upshot is - that image is now a WIP.
So if you have any critiques please let me have it ;)

TIA
Mark

[Nosalis]

nice one, .. though I don`t like WW1 planes, .. I like WW2 :)

[mmiller]

I just finishd some Sopwith Triplane profiles.
They are also of RNAS squad 10 and are for the same project as the Camel posted previously.
hope you like
mark

a couple more here:
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Tripe/index.html


http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Tripe/mm_B5490.jpg
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Tripe/mm_B5490_cu.jpg

[Titan]

beautiful texture work man....good job..
I've always wanted to model some old BIplanes but could never find the right reference...but then again, I didnt try very hard;)

excellent!!

[Clorets]

nice textures and a very realistic model. Great!:thumbsup:

[3Dan]

This is excellent work both on modeling and on texturing.
IMO the scene renderings do not intend to depict real life but illustrations.
It is incredible what you get from Autocad, when both Max and Maya have so much more modeling options.
Your working software setup is perfect: Corel/ Illustrator, Photoshop and Autocad. You need nothing else.
The profile illustrations are awesome too.
You deserve every star you've been given. Looking forward to see more.

[mmiller]

Originally posted by 3Dan
This is excellent work both on modeling and on texturing.
IMO the scene renderings do not intend to depict real life but illustrations.
It is incredible what you get from Autocad, when both Max and Maya have so much more modeling options.
Your working software setup is perfect: Corel/ Illustrator, Photoshop and Autocad. You need nothing else.
The profile illustrations are awesome too.
You deserve every star you've been given. Looking forward to see more.

3Dan
Thanks
Yes, creating "Illustration" has always been my goal.
And I am extremly pleased to hear that you feel the work is succsesful within the framework you describe.

and yes - it is not and never was intended to be a photograph
A camera is one way to see the world - but IMHO not THE way ;)
I would hope we could do a little better than that


And it would appear you looked at my tech notes.
I have to admit, I'm oddly proud of the working methods/infrastructure that I devised to do this work.
Thanks for noticing :)

and stars too
well ... This is must be my day:cool:
Mark

[Skyraider3D]

Oooo nearly missed this one!
Awesome work Mark!! I especially like the profiles a lot! They are likely the best I've ever seen. Great texture job there!

Will we ever see you doing a WW2 subject? A Fokker C.V maybe? ;)

Top quality work! As always! Where do you find the time! :)

[evanM]

Absolutely fantastic work Mark! Awesome!

The profiles are especially nice, texturing is topnotch!

Five stars!

[newek]

That's awsome!

[Cynical_Saint]

Both images are sweet. The only suggestion I would have comes from the extras section the Saving Private Ryan DVD. The way that they helped create realistic looking colors in that movie was that they simply reduced the saturation.

I would try just reducing the saturation and blurring a little in Photoshop, and see what you think.

Anything that old you do think of as having such bright and vivid colors.

[Sceme]

Cynical_Saint: but this never ment to look realistic :p

AWESOME!!! *screaming it with full motion*:D

[STRAT]

excellent job. the rendering style looks very much like those watercolour paintings you get on birthday cards.

[arai]

great works, I second skyraiders question.... wwII? come on you know you want to. Actually I understand the interest in one era of aircraft.


-arai-

[mmiller]

Hi - thanks for the comments

as for the the profiles:
What I’ve shown here are two out of about thirty (Tripes and Camels) profiles that I recently generated for a book on RNAS squad 10. It will be published by Schiffers but I have no idea when the release date will be.
I already had the Camel modeled and mapped, but the tripe had to be done from scratch, and I had about 2 months in which to do it.
Maybe it’s weird, but I like working to a deadline - keeps you focused

A couple of observations:
One thing I have noticed is that the texture maps I found that worked best for the profiles do not work well for 3D renders.
The profile maps are more heavily textured – looks good in profile but when you rotate out of plane it looks horrible – not sure why

I had toyed with the idea of alternating the light source to try and give the profiles a little more variety.
Thank God I did NOT do this.
All the profiles are loaded up in a .psd file and the fact that they are all consistent has enabled me to play a lot of games with them in Photoshop.
We have been tweaking them quite a bit – little corrections etc..
And at this point I can almost always make the correction by stealing data from another profile. If I had alternated the light source it would have been a nightmare.

Also – I rendered all these profiles out at 4000 pixels across.
I think this was kind of dumb considering the fact that they will printed at about 7 inches across. I could have easily gotten away with 3000 pixels and it would have greatly reduced my render time, file sizes, etc…
Of course I now have the flexibility of being able to reproduce them at a much larger size.
But still – next time I’ll do it different.

Just a couple of lessons learned :)
Mark

[3Dan]

Wow! Thirty artworks at once. Quite a production - more like an assembly line.
It's clear that you master Pshop as much as you do Acad.
BTW Have you got my pm "Old aircraft, old brochures"?

[mmiller]

3Dan - hmm.. no I haven't
to tell the truth I had not noticed the Private message thing before. I just found it now and there was a very old message from brianellebracht ... sorry for not responding.

Cynical saint
I'm not particularly interested in replicating photography.
But I will try desaturating parts of that first image.
maybe it will help - I'm thinking that the big blue tail in the foreground might be just a little to intense.

Ronnie and Arai
Yeah - I am kind of itching to do something a little different.
I got a CD from a friend a couple of days ago that contained some great shots of a Bristol Bulldog during restoration.
Extremely tempting.
The cool part is that you can see the same basic construction philosophy as in WW1 types, but it has evolved.

I read somewhere that the Hawker huricane was considered the ultimate evolutuion of WW1 construction methodology.
The spit on the other hand was a revolutionary design that started from scratch.

In any case
I'm thinking a bolt level model of an interwar type would be the most entertaining for me right now. There are several American and British examples that I would be interested in.
The key is reference.
I would need a LOT of good hard data for something like this.
photos and plans, preferably dimensioned.
and, of course, this would be a major project.
given the complexity of these machines I would have to say it would take twice the amount of time as a WW1 prototype.
we will see

but, first i got to get back to the Nieuport 17
I had to put it on hold when this profile job came up.

Thanks again for all the comments:)
Mark

[Slipstream3d]

Cool, I like the style. It almost looks like one of those warplane oil paintings!

My only nitpick is the ground looks way too flat. Maybe, use a grass plugin or even just an extremely subtle bump map...

EDIT: I just noticed you used Autocad, I assumed you were using Max or Lightwave... grass might be a bit harder then :) still, it'd make it that much better.

[cupcake]

This is very good .:beer:

[Kel Solaar]

Great texturing and modelling work!

[ja3d]

Beautifull worked scene, really like it, nice work on illumination too.

[sixthe45]

nice work.

[mmiller]

Hi
After studying the photos, and confering with some people who are far more knowledgable than I on this topic, I have made some rather drastic changes to the color schemes of the naval 9 Camels.

To be honest, this is all just guesswork. Trying to make color decisions based on black and white photography is just about impossible.
And then there is the additional problems associated with Ortho film and it's odd sensativities to different colors.

But, this is my best guess... for now ;)

The first profile shows Maude 2 - the A/C in the immediate foreground of the naval 9 image. You will notice that i removed all the red and made the cowl blue.
Yes, I know, it looked better the other way.
But, I'm afraid historical accuracy must be the first priority in a project like this
mark

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/maude2b.jpg
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/unk1.jpg

[3Dan]

Doing such work is almost archaeologic, plus living witnesses are long gone.
Modeling is much like reconstructing, texturing is like painting and "wearing" the model.
Don't worry Mark, it's a thin line between accuracy and artistic license.
Yours is by far the best i ever seen as regards aircraft art - and i've seen a lot, believe me. Kikuo Hashimoto, one of the top illustrators if not THE top one would no doubt echo my words.

[avalon]

:beer:
Nice Work
:applause:

[StaNz]

:buttrock: :eek: :drool: :thumbsup:
U work too great 2 me!!!!!!!!!!

[kgha]

good good!!!
very good
ok
thanks

[DoctorStopMo]

Wow, that's very good stuff! I was considering doing a short animated film called The Aviator about WWI aces in combat, but I've been awfully busy with other things, and I'm still early in the research phase and trying to learn more about what it was really like. Congratulations on a job well done!

[Zanith]

Wow. I like the angles you have chosen, not to mention the lighting. The quality and the composition of these images really draws me in. And these models are just fine. Really well done! Nice touch on the weathering of the aircraft. Now lets see some scenes of biplanes taking on german zepplins. LOL!

[Lem]

bloody awesome :thumbsup:

Lem

[mmiller]

Hi
I have finaly generated a revised version of the naval 9 image.
Unfortunately, I found out just last night that it would have been "extremly unlikely" that one of these aircraft would have been present in this group. (second from right)
This historical accuracy thing can be a real burden at times :hmm:

Mark

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/naval9rev.jpg

[mmiller]

also posted the rest of the profiles and some top views as well.

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/index.html


http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/Muryelrev.jpg

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/B3894pro.jpg

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Camel/b3894top.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

Hey Mark,

Great stuff as always! :thumbsup:

I know exactly what you mean with historical accuracy! It's one of those things that actually takes an incredible amount of time, yet hardly anybody will appreciate it!

I'm currently working on a prototype which never managed to take off. Surely it was brand sparkling new, and surely people will comment that it needs to look used and dirty (which it wasn't)! And I can't go for a polished car look either,as its paint was matt... :shrug:

Anyway, good work once again. And I keep hoping you'll tackle a WW2 subject someday! ;)

[giobianco1]

Mark....
Very beautiful images! as always....

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[mmiller]

Originally posted by Skyraider3D
Hey Mark,

Great stuff as always! :thumbsup:

I know exactly what you mean with historical accuracy! It's one of those things that actually takes an incredible amount of time, yet hardly anybody will appreciate it!

and yet, if you make a mistake, there are lots of people ready to "correct" you. ;)
But, i don't realy mind getting corrected, In fact, I've encouraged it.
I hate doing research so I just go on line and beg for help.
works pretty well.

Bigest problem is when you get into a situation in which the available data in inconclusive, or open to various interpretations. And I think this naval 9 image is a good example.
I'm almost positive that both the images I have made are partialy correct, and that the stripes were different colors at differernt times.
The biggest chalenge is to get all the "right" ones together , and I don't know if the data exists to be able to do that with any degree of certatinty.
So, you spin your wheels

I'm currently working on a prototype which never managed to take off. Surely it was brand sparkling new, and surely people will comment that it needs to look used and dirty (which it wasn't)! And I can't go for a polished car look either,as its paint was matt... :shrug:


Ronnie
Remember ... it's ok to cheat a little. :D

Mark

[mmiller]

Hi
I just posted a page which contains all the reference photos of the naval 9 camels. I believe this is the only data available on which to base any color interpretation.
So, you can decide for yourself ;)
Just remember - with Ortho film, red goes black and blue goes white

http://mwmiller.net/camel/n9photo.htm

http://mwmiller.net/camel/photo/N9-2.jpg

also posted a recomposited version of the naval 9 image.
kind of fun
http://mwmiller.net/camel/naval9long.jpg

and I finaly have my own site :)
http://mwmiller.net/

Mark

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.