3D Coat 3.0 officially released

[geothefaust]

Hey all,

3D-Coat v3 has been released today!

So I've gone and recorded some voxel sculpting videos for a manual. The videos are more geared toward people who don't know voxels or sculpting... Or voxel sculpting. But anyway, check out 3DC v3. It's seriously well worth your time, I have ditched zbrush in favour of 3DC...


Here are the videos I did for the voxel sculpting manual:
http://www.3d-coat.com/voxel_tutorial.html

Also here are some feature videos that I recorded for 3D-Coat:
http://www.3d-coat.com/news3_0.html

So a few highlights I'd seriously like to point out for v3:

-Voxel sculpting. Sculpt without worrying about annoying polygon counts and detail a character beyond anything you could in ZB.

-Retopologize and layout UVs with the best tools in the biz. No joke. You can retopologize with auto quadrangulation tools, or manually. Both are pretty quick.

-Pixel painting!! For us texture artists, this is a biggie... This let's you paint directly onto LOW poly meshes with high res images. Yes, you read that right... LOW poly meshes. Of course you can still paint on high res meshes too.

Anyway, if you're a sculptor or a modeler, especially organic models, give this a serious look. You wont regret it. Oh, not to forget a mention here, but the interface has had a complete overhaul as well. It's very organized and much easier to find stuff. Everything is dockable.

Right-O, check 'er out!!

[Nemoid]

awesome ! looking forward to test it out. I followed the 3dcoat forums quite closely so I do know the app is great! Thanks for the videos. :thumbsup:

[MASTERSHOKHAN]

You got my attention

[dnashj33]

Sorry for the analogy, but IMHO, what Susan Boyle was to singing, Andrew is to CG. :bowdown:
An extremely talented developer who came out of nowhere, and is going to knock your socks off!

[dnashj33]

Hands down the fastest software developer I've ever seen, and listens to user community input more than anyone else as well.

And no...I'm not getting paid to say this. I'm just shocked at how fast he responds to user requests and bug reports.

The Voxel sculpting with CUDA support is fantastic...and the only sculpting application to support 3DCOnnexion devices (Space Pilot/Explorer/Navigator). I bought a SpacePilot just a few weeks ago and it was like going from a subcompact to a Lexus.

Sure, ZBrush is still King, but today...the throne is on high alert.:beer:

[Frenchy Pilou]

The new great concept is of course the "Voxel" sculpture! :thumbsup:
No subdivision, no polygon, only ultima speck :eek:

And the fact that only one guy Andrew has made this crazy prog alone in a short time never seen :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif
Have fun with it! :cool:

PS exist in French because I have made the French UI (http://www.3d-coat.com/lang_translation.php) :wavey:

[BUZZFX]

I have been able to do more in 1 week in 3DCoat than in a whole year in ZBrush. No kidding. Zbrush will still have it's loyal followers, but 3DCoats intuitive UI and it's ease of use will stagger you. :)

[Erklaerbar]

Congratulations! I hope you will get some well deserved attention.

[philnolan3d]

I assume by vortex you mean voxel?

[geothefaust]

I have been able to do more in 1 week in 3DCoat than in a whole year in ZBrush. No kidding. Zbrush will still have it's loyal followers, but 3DCoats intuitive UI and it's ease of use will stagger you. :)


Hey there. I must agree!


3DC is quick to learn and easy to use, yet has some very advanced features... And it's only going to get better.

[geothefaust]

Thanks for the videos. :thumbsup:

No problem. :)

[geothefaust]

You got my attention


Interested in anything in particular?

[Als]

Well done, thanks a lot.

How did you record this videos? Which software you used?

I think it would be amazing to be able to do animations directly by sculpting inside the 3Dcoat. I'm not sure if saving the model would do it (it might be too big and a bit slow), or is it possible to just save strokes, or undo/redo list?

Just got my pro version 3 now, can I keep version 2 installed? Is there a need for this?


Thanks


Als

[geothefaust]

Well done, thanks a lot.

How did you record this videos?

Thanks


Als

Hi there,

I used Camtasia Studio 6. It's expensive, but worth it's weight in gold.

[geezlouize]

I can't wait to get this. Very impressive :D

[geothefaust]

I can't wait to get this. Very impressive :D


Did you check out the demo yet? ;)

[BitsAndBytes]

I have one question, back when I tried the beta (or alpha) there were no way of going up and down in voxel resolution. Is there a way to do so now? Apart from that and the (at the time) somewhat crude tools the whole voxel experience was extremely cool.

[geothefaust]

I have one question, back when I tried the beta (or alpha) there were no way of going up and down in voxel resolution. Is there a way to do so now? Apart from that and the (at the time) somewhat crude tools the whole voxel experience was extremely cool.


At the moment you can go up in resolution for voxels, but not down - Yet. It is on Andrew's to-do list that I saw. I'm sure it will be in a v3 point upgrade.

[Als]

Thanks for doing retopology tools demo.
They are incredible.
Please do some more. I think this is of crucial interest to everyone who uses zbrush, mudbox.
What happens once you remodel smaller polygon count for you model?
Is there some mudbox/3dcoat user who can give some tips about switching from one to the other?
Is there a frame by frame import for rotoscoping retouching?
It would be great to be able to import realflow meshes/particles? and manipulate them one by one, frame by frame, while still preserving UV's.

Thanks


Als

[MasonDoran]

Thanks for doing retopology tools demo.
They are incredible.
Please do some more. I think this is of crucial interest to everyone who uses zbrush, mudbox.
What happens once you remodel smaller polygon count for you model?
Is there some mudbox/3dcoat user who can give some tips about switching from one to the other?
Is there a frame by frame import for rotoscoping retouching?
It would be great to be able to import realflow meshes/particles? and manipulate them one by one, frame by frame, while still preserving UV's.

Thanks


Als


Mudbox has a better paint engine, speed, and interface.
It is however missing a significant tool set and painting tools/features.

3dcoat has essential tools like retopo, pose, voxels that all make up for that though.
It does suffer from a lack of AO baking, and artifacts in painting textures.

and no, there is no exotic support for Realflow or rotoscoping

[Als]

Sorry about that, I got carried away :)
I really like how fast and steady progress is being made with this program.
The developer is really good listener.
I feel it's quite important to tune the program to one's needs/scale in order to be faster while working. I think interface has great potential, but I'd like to make it a bit less hectic.
Is there exchange of setups?

Also I found this page on forum very helpfull to clarify some things about the program...
http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2547

Thanks


Als

[philnolan3d]

It does suffer from a lack of AO baking, and artifacts in painting textures.


Personally I have seen no artifacts in textures. Ambient Occlusion baking is in there as well, it's under the Textures menu.

http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/b407364d-bd78-4e89-b7d9-9e3ae20a03d9/2009-06-09_2151.png

[R10k]

Personally I have seen no artifacts in textures.

I have in version 2 (through it seemed to be a display issue, as the texture exported fine) but version 3 has been solid.

Anyway, V3 rocks. It's a tool that (for the little it costs) packs a lot of punch.

[FreakWizz]

For a sole developer it's amazing achievement.

1: Mac and PC versions:
2: 32 and 64bit versions:
3: OpenGL and Direct3D support.
4: Nvidia CUDA Acceleration and Multithreading

It seems larger monolithic monopolistic companies have a hard enough time supporting both Mac/PC, not to mention 64bit and current technologies like CUDA etc. I believe an OGL Linux version is also on the cards.

When you add all that changed to some nice new retopo, interface, UV, voxels, Direct Painting, Render tools. It's sure come a long way very quickly. And I'm sure Andrew will continue updating on a day or week by week updates for all version 3.0 purchases.

Congrats to Andrew and Pilgway for development, and the close continued connection with his users. Having his blogs, changelogs, and ideas all talked about in an open forum is so nice compared to the usual closed/private thinking that plagues the companies of old.

[Als]

I've just tested the retopo tool, and it's really spot on.
I would say that first setup is bit too dark (click on the little sun to lighten it up)
After testing the program, to put the voxel sculpt back to your favourite 3D application (Ehkm, your... second favourite 3D app) you need to convert voxels to polygons.
I missed to spot the voxtree menu (in order to do this), it's next to the shaders,
to get the menu you need to click on it with right mouse button, then select quandrangulate object (auto retopology).
It works really good, plus it's fairly easy to delete part of it and recreate/fix it,
if any issues are there.
Recreating UVs is like in other 3D app which deal with this nicely, but...
Now, the next step is something I would like to see extensive tutorial about, since it's crucial really... How to get maps displace, normals, etc. based on high and lo poly model.

In the wish list, I really feel a need for circle/ring like tool as same as spline tool but just more precise.

I think they actually used the tool to model more programmer clones to work on the program... (see "multiplicity" for reference :D )
Also the program is quite popular at parties as well... :beer:

Thanks


Als

[geothefaust]

Hey there,


I will let Andrew know about your request when he returns from vacation. :)

But, I would definitely post that in the 3D-Coat forums too. He looks at all the posts there and considers all feature requests. I made a similar one to yours, which he said he was working on for a 3.x release at some point. So definitely head over there and post it!


PS- I think that is a great idea.

I've just tested the retopo tool, and it's really spot on.
I would say that first setup is bit too dark (click on the little sun to lighten it up)
After testing the program, to put the voxel sculpt back to your favourite 3D application (Ehkm, your... second favourite 3D app) you need to convert voxels to polygons.
I missed to spot the voxtree menu (in order to do this), it's next to the shaders,
to get the menu you need to click on it with right mouse button, then select quandrangulate object (auto retopology).
It works really good, plus it's fairly easy to delete part of it and recreate/fix it,
if any issues are there.
Recreating UVs is like in other 3D app which deal with this nicely, but...
Now, the next step is something I would like to see extensive tutorial about, since it's crucial really... How to get maps displace, normals, etc. based on high and lo poly model.

In the wish list, I really feel a need for circle/ring like tool as same as spline tool but just more precise.

I think they actually used the tool to model more programmer clones to work on the program... (see "multiplicity" for reference :D )
Also the program is quite popular at parties as well... :beer:

Thanks


Als

[bwtr]

I feel honoured to have watched the progress of this genius from vertually day 1.

---staggering!
Brian

[Nemoid]

Agreed. :)

I think 3d Coat 3.0 is a fantastic start - milestone 1 for what will be an even more awesome product. Not only Andrew is fast in developing, but he actually listens to user requests and does know exactly what tools are required for a 3d artist to do his job.

The app will be refined even more further, so that soon we'll see enhancements everywhere.
To all people interested i suggest to visit 3d coat forums and give Andrew suggestions and feedbak so that he can improve even more this great software.

[animatics]

Well done, thanks a lot.

How did you record this videos? Which software you used?



HyperCam, altough it's modest interface does a good job. But Techsmith Video encoder kicks ass :)


I did not understand yet who to recover all that Voxel Modeling back to a Polygonal Object. Any video on this. I think this has been a lack of 3Dcoat for sometime. Lack of complete flow videos.
Tough, ty for the videos javis jones. You seem a bit tired on them tough :P Get some sleep boy, ehehe

Cheers

[MasonDoran]

Philo,

this is baking a lightmap from a skydome which does not yield the same results as true AO which is calculated by proximity.

The differance becomes apparent under the chin or nose of a character where you will get shadows, and areas facing the lightdome will lose detail that true AO will preserve.

The artifacts I am referring to were coming from an older version, and had more to do with nearest neighbor interpolation of when projecting images. This was before pixel painting was introduced so I dont know how it looks now.

[R10k]

The artifacts I am referring to were coming from an older version, and had more to do with nearest neighbor interpolation of when projecting images.

Ah, I see. Pixel painting is worth looking into in that case, then.

[iatriki]

the retopo tools look really well developed

[Intervain]

will definitely give it a whirl... retopo looks really nice

[INFINITE]

Where abouts on the Website does it state:

"The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people."

I cant seem to find it?

I just got discreminated against when I got in contact with the developer because your not allowed to create anything nude or evil with it, does this include demon or evil monsters?

Are we still living in the dark ages??

Perhaps they should state their personaly views on the website.

[cresshead]

Where abouts on the Website does it state:

"The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people."

I cant seem to find it?

I just got discreminated against when I got in contact with the developer because your not allowed to create anything nude or evil with it, does this include demon or evil monsters?

Are we still living in the dark ages??

Perhaps they should state their personaly views on the website.

let's deal with this swiftly and get back on topic of the new release of 3dcoat.

my advice is just to pick another sculpting app if you find the developers personal views do not match up with your own, otherwise it's just banging your own head against a wall..

plenty to choose from nowdays>>
silo
blender
modo
lbrush for 3dsmax [plugin]
mudbox
zbrush

[AJ]

I just got discreminated against when I got in contact with the developer because your not allowed to create anything nude or evil with it, does this include demon or evil monsters?
Really!?

Wow...

[AJ]

let's deal with this swiftly and get back on topic of the new release of 3dcoat.I'd say it's a pretty big part of the topic...

It's all good and well saying "use something else" but if anyone wanting to try/buy the new 3Dcoat isn't aware that they're not supposed to make anything 'evil' or 'lewd' then it's pretty important information.

Especially as that negates 90% of all sculpted CG characters...

[kawallo]

"The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people."
LOL
What could happen if you use 3D-Coat for that kind of works?

[mykyl]

It does not mention evil things as such. It states :-

The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people. We understand that we are not able to monitor everything created with 3D Coat, but we remind you about your responsibility before God.

http://www.3d-coat.com/download.html

Perfectly reasonable for anyone to state what they would like done with an application they have developed. Whether the user follows the wishes of the developer is a personal choice. Although it would be disrespectful to ignore a persons wishes I would have thought. ;)

Mike R

[cgdigg]

Where abouts on the Website does it state:
...
I just got discreminated against when I got in contact with the developer because your not allowed to create anything nude or evil with it, does this include demon or evil monsters?
...

Please note that nude does not equal to lewd
And I don't think create a monster model means against people
:)

[INFINITE]

Discrimination is what it is.

I was not allowed to purchase a copy of the product based on my style of work. If I had realised that was their personal view point and agenda I wouldnt have touch them with a ten foot barge pole

Disgusting.

I recommend getting back on topic as this thread will be closed because of my original post here. I had to post it though as I am fuming about the whole email I got from them which was very condescending and rude.

[INFINITE]

let's deal with this swiftly and get back on topic of the new release of 3dcoat.

my advice is just to pick another sculpting app if you find the developers personal views do not match up with your own, otherwise it's just banging your own head against a wall..


Surely the fact that they have no T&C's on the site or Privacy policy doesnt look good either, let alone forcing their views on to other people to then pick and choose who they allow to purchase their software?

[AJ]

We understand that we are not able to monitor everything created with 3D Coat, but we remind you about your responsibility before God.
Well, there's a bit of software I'm never installing!

[punchatz]

Discrimination is what it is.

I was not allowed to purchase a copy of the product based on my style of work. If I had realised that was their personal view point and agenda I wouldnt have touch them with a ten foot barge pole


Wow wow wow....I simply don't believe this is 2009. I was very impressed with the software, but now I think I wont even download a demo. This kind of artistic censorship makes me ill.

And I do think this is on subject- IF you buy this software you are only allowed to make cute politically correct images with it...I would say that is a big limitation.

BTW Infinite- your work is not lewd or obscene, its beautiful.

[mykyl]

Infinite, I am unsure why they would have turned you down. The images you have on CGTalk I would not class as either lewd or obscene. What kind of work did you tell them you did?

Cheers

Mike R

[Magnus3D]

I have to agree with what you guys say, forcing this religious stuff on people is not cool! however as a 3DC user i really don't care about it at all. I create whatever i want and if they don't like it, fine. It's not something i worry about.

Note: No i'm definately not religious, never was, never will be.

/ Magnus

[INFINITE]

Infinite, I am unsure why they would have turned you down. The images you have on CGTalk I would not class as either lewd or obscene. What kind of work did you tell them you did?

Cheers

Mike R

This was what I got told:

"I saw your gallery and it is my pesonal opinion that it has obscene materials. Frankly speaking I do not judge you but I am sad. Really we do not want 3DC to be used in the production of such materials. God saved me from my corruption and I know that He may save you as well if you wants.

May God bless and help you,"

[ThE_JacO]

I think everybody got the point now. This remains a NEWS thread first and foremost, not a debate on the license agreement or the devloper's requests.

I agree they feel a bit odd, and everybody's free to consider it when deciding their purchase, but please now leave it at this.
If you have anything to add to the discussion make sure it's relevant to the news part of the thread, which is a new version of 3DC, not the judeochristian views of the developer and/or what he decides to ask the users. I think there's enough info about that particular detail in the thread now without pushing this over the brink and turning it into a relgious debate :)

[asche]

*removed after last post*

[mykyl]

Same here.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Mike R

[Ballo]

I have to check this app. look nice.

[JoshBowman]

*removed after ThE_JacO asked for no further discussion of license agreement*

[INFINITE]

Understood.

Great App ;)

[paulrus]

Thanks mods for keeping this on track.

It's a great app and a great developer.

Let market forces decide the rest.

I've been using it since the first release. I dropped Mudbox once they were bought by Autodesk and use 3DC exclusively.

Did anyone mention the 3DC-Photoshop connection? Just hit CTRL-P while in 3DC and it launches Photoshop and loads all the 3DC textures into layers for editing. VERY NICE.

Paul

[philnolan3d]

I did not understand yet who to recover all that Voxel Modeling back to a Polygonal Object. Any video on this.
Not a video but here's a quick and dirty example. Start with a voxel model, then retopo it (I used Quadrangulate), then in the Retopo menu pick Merge Into Scene. I used Per Pixel.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s136/willohmsford/voxel_2_paint.jpg

[3DMadness]

Looks really great, and that's a bargain for only $200. ;)

[Frenchy Pilou]

A funny function :thumbsup:
The snake 3D! You draw curves with 3D object (it's voxels ;)
http://forums.polyloop.net/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=380

[philnolan3d]

Snake is cool, I prefer to use Curves though, you get the same thing with more control.

Edit: Like see here you can even start the base of a character with curves (I clearly spent very little time on this)

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s136/willohmsford/curve_guy.jpg

[BitsAndBytes]

At the moment you can go up in resolution for voxels, but not down - Yet. It is on Andrew's to-do list that I saw. I'm sure it will be in a v3 point upgrade.

That's good, so is there anyway to define the starting voxel resolution? If you convert an existing mesh to voxels, does it depend on the resolution of the polygon mesh? When sculpting in polygons it's alot easier to define the larger forms with a lowres mesh and then add subdivisions as you go into more and more detail. So being able to start from a low voxel resolution and define overall forms there and then be able to go up in resolution as details need would seem like an equivalent workflow. Of course being able to go up and down in resolution would be optimal, but atleast being able to go from a low voxel resolution upwards would be a good solution.

[jason manley]

Nudes are the foundation of all figurative arts. If you do not study nudes then you cannot do great character art. This policy means that Massive Black, nor ConceptArt.Org will ever support this software. Ever. Honestly, I think this garbage mentality of censorship should be publicized. I will be doing so on conceptart.org, if the discussion cannot continue here on cgtalk.

[3dtutorial]

Regardless of the personal views of the developer I have found 3D Coat to be a superb tool. Personal views aside, I've found Andrew (the developer) to have been extremely polite, helpful and receptive to suggestions regarding his application. I can fully understand how certain policies might rub people up the wrong way, but I certainly would not let such things prevent me from making full use of such an excellent application. Honestly, if you pass this application by based on a few sentences which express the personal view of the author then you will surely be missing out on something quite good. Still, to each his own and I fully respect others views on this issue. Regardless, I think 3D Coat is excellent and I fully recommend despite the personal matters that have been expressed.

Cheers,

J

[TylerAZambori]

Regardless of the personal views of the developer I have found 3D Coat to be a superb tool. Personal views aside, I've found Andrew (the developer) to have been extremely polite, helpful and receptive to suggestions regarding his application. I can fully understand how certain policies might rub people up the wrong way, but I certainly would not let such things prevent me from making full use of such an excellent application. Honestly, if you pass this application by based on a few sentences which express the personal view of the author then you will surely be missing out on something quite good. Still, to each his own and I fully respect others views on this issue. Regardless, I think 3D Coat is excellent and I fully recommend despite the personal matters that have been expressed.

Cheers,

J

I think that view only works if you completely ignore his EULA. Refusing to sell
the software to somebody just because he has nudes on a web page is a really
bad policy. How are you going to completely abolish all human nudes, all monsters
of all kinds, from any work you do with it? Are you allowed to have the characters
nude at some point as long they have clothing on them when you're done? Or
do they have to be clothed at all points in the modeling process?


What are you going to be able to do with it then, make pandas with green eyes?
Heck, I think this restriction should also include Pandas with green eyes that are descended from ducks. They should be excluded too.

There, I don't think I mentioned religion, so that should be kosher, right?
I'm talking about the guy being refused, the guy who wanted to buy it because
of version 3 coming out. Therefore, it is related to the news of version 3
coming out. If version 3 didn't come out, it probably wouldn't have happened.

I think discussing the EULA is always relevant, and more so when a new version
comes out that causes increased interest in purchasing said software.

[Chokmah]

I downloaded the beta version of 3Dcoat pretty recently !

I will continue to test in the near future for sure !

About Infinite problem, it seems that he wasn't allowed to buy the application due to the nude models he does ?! ( Nude models he does very well :thumbsup: )
To me it's more than an opinion problem ..

Moreover, why creating a sculpting tool and not allow people to do what is the foundation of sculpture : nude sculpting and studying ?

There is something illogical here IMO ...

But still the application seems very good, and I will test it. Hoping that the problem about what we can do or not with this app with find a solution .

[mushroomgod]

All the great features in the world are pretty pointless if no one will want to buy the software - Why would any company (or freelancer) want to buy software that..

1: Can not be used on commercial projects that the developer does not like the look of? No company worth there salt would invest money in something that they might not be able to use on a current/future job.

2: Hypothetically speaking...what if I buy this to model nothing but fluffy cartoon characters, then at a later date im employed/told to work on something that the developer does not like the look off.

3: referring back to point No 2....what if need an update to the software but since originally buying it my style of work has changed from fluffy toon characters to scantily clad women. Would I get the update?

I admire the developer for atleast having some principles (though I dont agree with them).. But whats the point of developing software thats so massively restrictive?

[3dtutorial]

I think that view only works if you completely ignore his EULA.

Well, seems like most everyone does these days...don't they?

:-)

Regarding this specific issue, I can't comment other than to say I would imagine that such things would be better resolved in private.

Now I'll bow out and let the rest of the villagers go get their pitchforks as knee jerk reactions seem to popular these days :-)

Cheers,

J

[philnolan3d]

The voxel resolution is independent of the object being imported. Here's some info on importing object to voxels.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s136/willohmsford/vox_merge_info.jpg

[SFDD]

I think everybody got the point now. This remains a NEWS thread first and foremost, not a debate on the license agreement or the devloper's requests... I think there's enough info about that particular detail in the thread now without pushing this over the brink and turning it into a relgious debate :)

Sorry, JacO, but I couldn't disagree with you more. When I search through these forums, I see all sorts of posts about things that are not about software, even in news posts. I read about how evil Autodesk is, or how bad Microsoft and Vista are. And, I'm sorry, but I've read comments along the lines of Microsoft bashing from you too.

I absolutely feel that this developer has the right to express any viewpoint he wishes on his website or anywhere else. But to exclude him and his product from the same level of scrutiny and debate other developers are subject to is, in itself, another form of censorship.

As a fellow Softimage user, you have I have both partaken in threads in which the licensing practices of Autodesk have been challenged. I never saw you try to shut down one of those discussions, and I'd hate to see you try to do that here.

Licensing policies are part of the software--any developer would agree. One must agree to them before using the software. So, in theory, any concerns about licensing should be the very first thing anyone discusses.

The irony here to me is that the "propganda of hatred" this developer seeks to not support, has its core in orgnizations that try to exclude others, or try to evangelize the way things ought to be.

If Al Qaeda had purchased Softimage instead of Autodesk, I would have stopped using it. And I will forgo this application for the very same reason--hate is hate. And, as a gay man in the United States, I can tell you: I personally have far more to fear from conservative Christianity than I do from radical Islam.

I couldn't live with myself if I knew that money I spent was going to fuel the war against people like me, by supporting one if its soldiers.

[Magnus3D]

Hehe, this would be as if a developer of a renderengine forbid it's users to render anything reflective or spherical shaped with their engine. Checkerpatterns are also forbidden! :D

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

/ Magnus

[Hirazi]

Please close this thread now... Let's not share and compare hypocrisy's yet again...
IMHO 3D Coat is a fine piece of software & well worth looking into, regardless...

[Stellios]

am i allowed to sculpt a witch burning scene

Discrimination is what it is.

I was not allowed to purchase a copy of the product based on my style of work. If I had realised that was their personal view point and agenda I wouldnt have touch them with a ten foot barge pole

Disgusting.


That's awefull dude.

[gent_k]

Hehe, this would be as if a developer of a renderengine forbid it's users to render anything reflective or spherical shaped with their engine. Checkerpatterns are also forbidden! :D

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

/ Magnus

Well the guy could be hardcore (as his emails suggest) and believe that the Earth is flat as well.

So spherical objects are fine but, if you slap on some earth texture you could be in trouble!

[Erklaerbar]

Im sorry to hear that, Infinite. That doesnt sound like a correct decision to me as well. It might be of worth (or not) when I add my opinion:


Art is human,
Art is the external representation of internal feelings, objects and thoughts
Thus restricting people in their art is restricting them in their personal thinking
People generally strongly dislike being restricted in their thinking
thus such art restrictions are recognised as inhuman by many:)
For this reason, I would prefer, if that EULA thing could go away.

On the other hand, I have to emphasize, that both 3DCoat itself and the developers helpfulness and openness in the forum are extraordinary.

Rgds

[u2mw]

Though I agree with everyone's commits about the EULA. It is your choice to use it or not, like jason manley stated. Though I diagree with 3DC decision in not allowing certain individuals to purchase this great application.

To me, art is SOOO subjective that NO individual has the right to label it as lewd, obscene, ect.
I like everyone else find this odd..

On 3D Coat, I purchased because it is a great application regardless of personal views. It has powerful features I've been looking for awhile at a FAIRLY reasonable price.

[gent_k]

Would everyone please stop it with this "personal view" BS?

It's much more than "personal view", it's Company/Developer Policy!


BTW. anyone else think actual sculpting in 3Dcoat is incredibly slower than Zbrush/Mudbox? No where as near as smooth as Zbrush. Obviously zbrush works differently, but Mudbox is similarly reliant on graphics cards/drivers but runs much faster than 3Dcoat as well.

Retopology tools look better than anything I've seen though.

[TylerAZambori]

Im sorry to hear that, Infinite. That doesnt sound like a correct decision to me as well. It might be of worth (or not) when I add my opinion:



Art is human,
Art is the external representation of internal feelings, objects and thoughts
Thus restricting people in their art is restricting them in their personal thinking
People generally strongly dislike being restricted in their thinking
thus such art restrictions are recognised as inhuman by many:)
For this reason, I would prefer, if that EULA thing could go away.

On the other hand, I have to emphasize, that both 3DCoat itself and the developers helpfulness and openness in the forum are extraordinary.

Rgds


But what good does that do for the people who can't buy it because they
don't make the grade? I have to agree with SFDD.

[punchatz]

Hey guys...this is not about religion, so lets not make fun of anyone's beliefs. This is about freedom of religion..or from it. I don't think Andrew would enjoy the same discrimination he is dishing out if it were applied to him because of his religious beliefs.


I have zero issue with him requesting you use his software for "good" but despise the fact he pre judges peoples "style" and then based on his almighty wisdom of whats obscene or not he will grant you the privilege of using his software.

Greg

[INFINITE]

The voxel resolution is independent of the object being imported. Here's some info on importing object to voxels.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s136/willohmsford/vox_merge_info.jpg


Oooohhhh you tease you! :drool:

[philnolan3d]

Infinite: Did he actually deny the purchase or just suggest that he hopes you change your ways or something. I thought the purchasing was fairly automated. Andrew's on vacation in Turkey for the next week and a half, so he can't very well be monitoring every single purchase. In fact he said he'll barely have net access.

If you have ever read through the forum you can see Andrew has never said anything about this stuff anywhere in there that I've seen and he posts a lot in the forum. He also seems like a really nice guy so this all sounds very out of character for him.


Oooohhhh you tease you! :drool:

Sorry I was responding to someone who was asking about voxel resolution but my responce was a page late.

[hanskloss]

The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people. We understand that we are not able to monitor everything created with 3D Coat, but we remind you about your responsibility before God.

This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen in my professional life. How do you expect to sell this product with something like that right under the download button? :eek: :surprised Amazing.

[INFINITE]

Infinite: Did he actually deny the purchase or just suggest that he hopes you change your ways or something. it thought the purchasing was fairly automated. Andrew's on vacation in Turkey for the next week and a half, so he can't very well be monitoring every single purchase. In fact he said he'll barely have net access.


The email was from a PR guy in the company "Really we do not want 3DC to be used in the production of such materials."

anyway...

The voxel stuff looks awesome and the retopo tools are stunning. I guess I will have to wait and see what ZB4 has to offer. I just hope I meet their criteria and I am able to use the upgrade....

[philnolan3d]

I bought it back when it was version 2.x like a year and half ago, now I've upgraded to 3.0.

[XminusOne]

While I don't use sculpting progs, I will say, i've been tempted to lately, and I was seriously considering this, but I will be going with a more expensive option now, one without the limitations of someones personal beliefs getting in the way. One potential buyer lost.

[philnolan3d]

The email was from a PR guy in the company "Really we do not want 3DC to be used in the production of such materials."

anyway...

The voxel stuff looks awesome and the retopo tools are stunning. I guess I will have to wait and see what ZB4 has to offer. I just hope I meet their criteria and I am able to use the upgrade....

I would appeal directly to Andrew when he gets back from vacation. I looked at your site and it didn't look "lewd" to me.

[ronaldomiranda]

but we remind you about your responsibility before God.


That sounded nice to me.

The first time i see the God 'word' in a 3d software.

i have nothing against atheist ppl, but i liked it ;)

[DieMachinist]

Better stick god decal on my evil faithless models and everything should be ok with regards to EULA :p If someone wants to believe in fairytales then that is fine but don't preach to me.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Autodesk had said something similar? Glad I read this thread cause as a faithless person I rather not take or support any god pill. Some things are more important than software, like freedom of expression specially in an artistic setting.

[LordMcGoat]

I downloaded the trial just for the topology tools, and I really liked them. Were it not for personal reservations about the professional conduct of the company, I think I'd buy it just for the topology options.

[TJFrame]

I dont see what the big deal is. The developer has every right to sell to whoever he wishes since he is not breaking any federal law. "artists making obscene or lewd art" (in his opinion) are not a protected class of people.

If people don't like what he stands for then don't give him your business. It's really very simple. Mocking or villifying him is rather pointless. I doubt his EULA could be upheld in court anyway because of the vague wording.

The developer's views offend some people on here. and I'm sure their views offend him. Fair enough.. no one is holding a gun to their heads to do business together.

[JamesMK]

I would appeal directly to Andrew - - -

Seriously, nobody should ever have to "appeal" to a company to be granted the privilege of buying their product. It's supposed to be software, dammit, not the inquisition (although, as we all know, no one expects the inquisition, particularly not the Spanish one).

[gent_k]

That sounded nice to me.

The first time i see the God 'word' in a 3d software.

i have nothing against atheist ppl, but i liked it ;)

I would like to remind you that you are a higher primate.

Now there are some people here that might 'like' my above statement on their 3d software. But do you think it's appropriate or even f*&!ing relevant to include? NO.

The developer's statement sounds like something a fundamentalist troll would write in an article on human evolution on the Nature website or something, followed by an ALL-CAPS no punctuation warning that if we don't repent we'll burn in hell.

[TylerAZambori]

I dont see what the big deal is. The developer has every right to sell to whoever he wishes since he is not breaking any federal law. "artists making obscene or lewd art" (in his opinion) are not a protected class of people.

If people don't like what he stands for then don't give him your business. It's really very simple. Mocking or villifying him is rather pointless. I doubt his EULA could be upheld in court anyway because of the vague wording.

The developer's views offend some people on here. and I'm sure their views offend him. Fair enough.. no one is holding a gun to their heads to do business together.

I would say, once again, that people have every right to discuss the EULA, and it is
relevant.

[gent_k]

I dont see what the big deal is. The developer has every right to sell to whoever he wishes since he is not breaking any federal law. "artists making obscene or lewd art" (in his opinion) are not a protected class of people.

If people don't like what he stands for then don't give him your business. It's really very simple. Mocking or villifying him is rather pointless. I doubt his EULA could be upheld in court anyway because of the vague wording.

The developer's views offend some people on here. and I'm sure their views offend him. Fair enough.. no one is holding a gun to their heads to do business together.

True and we are just pointing to the fact that he's an unprofessional proselytizing bigot for choosing this business practice.

The way some people are suggesting that you shouldn't evaluate the software based on their policies is what gets on my nerves.

[Womball]

I plan on buying it. If nudity is an issue, I'd just add some clothes for the final image.

[TJFrame]

True and we are just pointing to the fact that he's an unprofessional proselytizing bigot for choosing this business practice.

Well that's your opinion.. luckily both you and he are free to have them. One could say that you are an unprofessional proselytizing bigot for attacking someone who doesn't agree with your views. Look at the way you have mocked him in your posts... Way to show enlightened tolerance!!!

[Veehoy]

Well, it could have been worse. He could try to force his views upon others by denying them to purchase 3d software :twisted:

[frogspasm]

If I were thinking of purchasing this software I would want some kind of clarification as to what the developer considers "lewd or obscene". I mean, are all nipples evil or just female nipples?

What if they decide at some time that we can't produce works that are "an abomination"?
(i.e. anything that God didn't create)

Do they have a system in place to revoke my license if at any time in the future they see some of my work that they decide is obscene?

So many questions :)

[u2mw]

Whew! Its getting hot in here. Keep it civil without the labels.

[philnolan3d]

Andrew is really not that bad. I even made a voxel model of Satan and have the WIP thread in their forum. Now I'm a forum admin over there. I'm not trying to show off my status or anything just making a point.

[DieMachinist]

Well that's your opinion.. luckily both you and he are free to have them. One could say that you are an unprofessional proselytizing bigot for attacking someone who

I don't think he is unprofessional for stating facts about the EULA or calling out the developer. Jesus what has buying and selling of 3d software got to do with god? The developer brought god into this not the guy you are calling unprofessional. Actually I would say the developer is unprofessional. Maybe developer should become a priest if he wants to change the world.

Would it have been ok if the developer had said no religious or godly images should be created with their software cause satan is watching?

[ghib]

I really don't understand what happened to this thread or why Infinite got 'access denied' based on his folio. Just the other day someone posted a nude figure on the 3dCoat forums declaring it was their 1st proper attempt at realistic anatomy so why let that one slip? I don't necessarily agree with the declaration in the EULA myself so I've never let it bother me.

Something seems amiss here... Is there such a thing as bad advertising?

[DieMachinist]

Andrew is really not that bad. I even made a voxel model of Satan and have the WIP thread in their forum. Now I'm a forum admin over there. I'm not trying to show off my status or anything just making a point.


Was your Satan naked though and did it have any tits? I hope you mend your bad ways cause god is watching :p

[Gwot]

People really are making a big deal out of this. Nowhere ever during purchase is any sort of check or investigation done into how you will be using the software. If you want to talk to the developer through email before your purchase and use that as a prerequisite to whether you'll buy that is your problem. I have a much bigger problem with corporate monstrosities and their ethical and greedy motivations behind how they treat me as a customer than I do with some dude across the world who has found god, yet I still buy and upgrade on a yearly basis (mostly).

Feel free to not buy his product and expound on why all you want, I'll be over here having fun just using the software to make whatever I like. Here's my perspective: I'll take Andrew's awesome dedication to his product, amazing genius and speed along with his batshit crazy eula over autodesk "customer service" and crappy updates any day.

[TJFrame]

Well, it could have been worse. He could try to force his views upon others by denying them to purchase 3d software :twisted:

No.. that is NOT forcing his views upon you.

If members of the KKK or some other oganization you destest called you up and wanted to buy your artwork for a poster.. would you be "forcing your views" upon them by declining to do business with them? Take a less extreme example.. what if they were a whaling company or a company that harvests seals?

Everyone has their own ideas about morality and ethics and everyone draws the line at a place they feel comfortable with. Attacking a guy because his line is not YOUR line is hypocritical.

Let be honest, the crux of this matter is not that the guy selects who he sells to - it's that he does it based off of religious reasons, not "popular" reasons everyone on here happens to already agree with.

FYI I have no dog in this fight - I'm an athiest and a concept artist not a 3D guy..

[mykyl]

Please take into account his native language is not English so perhaps his wording could have been softer.
However I must say give it a rest.

Who cares whether you personally find it offensive that he chooses to sell to someone or not. Who cares if you personally don't believe in God, or as in many peoples cases, firmly do believe in God. I have seen some folks get as 'preachy' regarding not believing in God as those who do.

He has written a piece of software that does the job very well. If you can use it...use it. Otherwise... Just leave it.

Mike R

[TJFrame]

I have seen some folks get as 'preachy' regarding not believing in God as those who do.


bingo.. that's what this is really all about. How DARE someone have a religious opinion that I dont agree with!! How DARE they run a business based off their own belief system..

again.. As a life-long athiest I can safely say that athiest can be the most obnxious people on the planet in their tireless crusade against all things Christian.

[DieMachinist]

bingo.. that's what this is really all about. How DARE someone have a religious opinion that I dont agree with!! How DARE they run a business based off their own belief system..

again.. As a life-long athiest I can safely say that athiest can be the most obnxious people on the planet in their tireless crusade against all things Christian.

Wrong bingo, right bingo would be not to be preachy in your EULA whether you are atheist or religious :applause:

[INFINITE]

bingo.. that's what this is really all about. How DARE someone have a religious opinion that I dont agree with!! How DARE they run a business based off their own belief system..

again.. As a life-long athiest I can safely say that athiest can be the most obnxious people

Maybe so but who cast the first stone? :wise:

If members of the KKK or some other oganization you destest called you up and wanted to buy your artwork for a poster..

I also hope that wasnt directed at me as an analogy? a bit out of context dont you think?

[Veehoy]

No.. that is NOT forcing his views upon you.

If members of the KKK or some other oganization you destest called you up and wanted to buy your artwork for a poster.. would you be "forcing your views" upon them by declining to do business with them? Actually, yes, you would......that is the part that escapes you....

[gent_k]

Well that's your opinion..

Is it?

Let's review:


"I saw your gallery and it is my pesonal opinion that it has obscene materials. Frankly speaking I do not judge you but I am sad. Really we do not want 3DC to be used in the production of such materials. God saved me from my corruption and I know that He may save you as well if you wants.

May God bless and help you,"

"The 3D-Coat software should not be used in the production of any lewd or obscene materials, as well as any products which propagandize hatred against people. We understand that we are not able to monitor everything created with 3D Coat, but we remind you about your responsibility before God."

my labeling of him: 1.unprofessional, 2.proselytizing 3.bigot

1 - not characteristic of or befitting a profession or one engaged in a profession
2 - To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith; To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.
3 - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

So which part of my statement is unjustified?

By the way, i love it how people throw around "it's your opinion", "everyone is entitled to their own opinion", or "personal views" as if there never can be an objective truth. And of course it is my opinion, and my "view"... I am only in control of my mind. But that doesn't mean that because "it's my opinion" it isn't valid, or that everyone's opinion is equally valid.

[ambient-whisper]

By the way, i love it how people throw around "it's your opinion", "everyone is entitled to their own opinion", or "personal views" as if there never can be an objective truth. And of course it is my opinion, and my "view"... I am only in control of my mind. But that doesn't mean that because "it's my opinion" it isn't valid, or that everyone's opinion is equally valid.

heh i can imagine "your opinion" being thrown around a few hundred years ago.

Planet Earth isnt flat, its actually round!

yeah well.. thats your opinion...