Blackboxgames is looking for artists: tests inside

[darthblevis]

The Character and Environment Modeling tests have been updated.

[prototyp3]

If we're unable to submit *.max files with smoothing groups and organized naming, will our scores be knocked down considerably? Or will the fact that those specifics don't translate from package to package be taken into account?
Thanks.

[el diablo]

why in the world do a bunch of you game companies expect test from prospective employees. Especially by sending you the scene file? Isn't that what a demo reel is for. Personally I work on films and if a studio asked me for a model, rig, dynamic setup or whatever file I would think they were looking for something for free. You could evaluate someones skillset by some question and answer period during an interview. Also how do you know that the person applying is the one doing the work. Maybe try this approach, contact someone for a day or two(after viewing a reel) at a deflated rate(maybe say half), give them a test to do that could benifit a production at that time, and see how they do. What you would benifit from this approach would be, you could hire someone that work like you expect with a tem and get something done at the same time. All you need to do is check up on this individual, let say on the way to the bathroom or something(so none of your time would really be waisted) and see how they do. Then hire them. I feel most people that would agree to do these test should be spending more time on there reel and less time being taken advantage of. Even Mac Donalds doesn't ask you to bring in a burger from home. Just my opinion....el diablo

3D Chop Shop (http://www.3dchopshop.com)

[Brain]

Personally, I think companies giving tests is an excellent idea. It's an up-to-date example of your skills in a timeframe and subject area that you would most likely be working in for the company. The demo reel is helpful, sure, but there may be an area in which they need some further coverage on. Or who's to say that the demo reel isn't 4 years old, in which the applicant hasn't touched since then? Their skills could be much better or much worse since that time, and doing the test would give a more accurate account of their current level of expertise.

My AU$0.02

[prototyp3]

I have to agree and disagree. I think tests are a wonderful idea for the reasons stated - it's a current example of your work, and showing you can adapt to the style of the game project in question. However, I do not like sending over the source files. I don't see why screen shots clearly showing the geometry aren't satisfactory. (or even a small avi showing the model from all angles)

[el diablo]

I can kind of see how some people may like tests(someone who wants a foot in the door and not much experience) but I dont see any game companies doing tests for publishers without any compensation. You just cant run a business that way. And you should always think of yourself as your own business. There are tests in the film industry. They are setup through the production company and given to the effect shop and they pay. Go figure.

I have been contacted by several highend game companies and asked to do tests for them. But I always tell them my time is valuable and I just cant do things for free. And they always end up contacting me again. It seems that the people that are doing the tests are really desperate to get into the industry. BTW if your reel is 4 years old you most likely haven't been doing anything currently....el diablo



3D Chop Shop (http://www.3dchopshop.com)

[C:\]

OK. I'm really sorry to say this, but I'm getting extremely disgruntled about this whole art-test thing companies are starting to do lately. I know this has been around for a while now, but it's starting to turn into a standard now, which I have major problems with. I've been a professional artist for almost 6 years now. I have a portfolio, a reel and a resume. If you like what you see, then have me in for an interview. INTERVIEW me first and THEN ask me to do an art test, but only if you are absolutely sure you are going to hire me if I do well on it, otherwise you are wasting my time.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you aren't even asking to see reels or resume's, just some free work, which I think is completely unproffesional.

[BrainFaucet]

Art tests are a great idea... but they should not be used in place of submitting a demo reel and resumé.

Us unemployed artists don't have time to spend a day working on a test from a company who doesn't even know who we are. I send out at least 3 resumés & reels per week day, and simply can't do three art tests every day. If you like one's portfolio and call them up to ask them to do a quick test to see if the potential employee is capable of working with your style and concept work, great! No problem. But art tests should not be asked of us if you aren't already somewhat interested in our work.

I don't mean to be rude, but artists are jerked around a lot by companies with stuff like "non-paid position, but great resume builder!"

[lowlight]

Well despite my own personal belief in tests being administered, it's apparently something that's starting to catch on with big studios aswell, I use KONAMI (http://www.konami.com) as an example (Konami USA). Check out their site to see what I mean.

[C:\]

Sorry about the rant, but we have to have SOME kind of standard here, right? I've done the art test thing in the past, after getting interviewed first, got the job AND a nice portfolio piece from it. No problem. Now companies are asking for art tests before they even talk to me? No way. Nope. Won't do it.

I think the thing to do here is just ignore these companies that are asking for a test without even seeing your reel/resume or interviewing you. There are plenty of other companies to work for. I can't think of any other profession where they would ask for a day's worth of work (sometimes more, sometimes less) without even talking to you.

?!?

[darthblevis]

Originally posted by prototyp3
If we're unable to submit *.max files with smoothing groups and organized naming, will our scores be knocked down considerably? Or will the fact that those specifics don't translate from package to package be taken into account?
Thanks.

If there are sections of the evaluation sheet that do not apply to the results of the test (like above) these sections will not be used to calculate your average score.

[Scott Harris]

I agree with C/...

I can see setting up an art test for the students on this page, but if you won't even talk to experianced artists who have no time for such a time consuming project just to be consitered...thats a shame...because your missing out on alot of great artists who already have the style and skills your looking for all ready in their portfolio.

...then again you probley get thousands of demo reels either way...

the way I see it if you have skill and experiance you will over look this request because it is silly...or maybe you'll coment on it...
If you want to see work...thats what a demo reel is for and i can asure you mine shows off my talents much better then an art test.

[heavyness]

I don't see anything wrong with tests. Places aren't hiring you to sit around and make demo reels, they're paying you good money to make what they want. I’ve known people with great demo reels who can't work with other people's artwork and choke once they’re hired.

There are a couple things wrong with demo reels...
1] Sometimes other people have helped with the demo reel in one way or another.
2] You can easily hide problem areas and your weakness by using camera cuts and not showing certain “problem areas” on models
3] If someone has a fight scene with two aliens fighting, who says there motion is wrong. Too many people use aliens and some kind of creatures as a crutch for bad animation and or rigging. I’ve seen lots of people hide the mistakes by making their creature have 2 knees or something along those lines.

That’s my opinion; I think its just studios covering their own butts. Personally, if someone refused to do a simple test for me, I wouldn’t want them working for me.

[Mark Somerville]

Lets' see: I've made fourteen applications (demo reel, portfolio) so far this week, and I'll make a dozen more by Monday's end (got to check the garage sales for more junk VHS tapes)... Some of these companies are big, some small, but if each of them were presumptuous enough to demand 2-3 days of unpaid work, a request that shows they don't have the confidance in any potential hire to show them the right stuff in a reel/portfolio, well, no time for cgtalk then, I think, among other things...
Artists do get jerked around quite enough with "contests" (which translate as requests for unpaid finished work) and such; just because our craft is more rewarding than most, folks seem willing to devalue it, thinking we pull it out of our a***s when it's really wrenched from the heart.

[RPG2006]

Sorry to join the rant brigade, but I'm in agreement, with most of the people here.

If these companies have such little value for your time and experience right now, do you think this is going to radically change once you are fortunate/unfortunate enough to be chosen for the position?

Unfortunately for us, and fortunately for what is now seeming more and more like the enemy than an opportunities, the demand is far greater than what is on offer.

By the way just one question to the said company, I haven't checked the site, so excuse me if the details are there, but it seems you are clear on what you require, so can you tell us what do we get in return, or have you overlooked that simple and unimportant matter?

[xynaria]

The idea of doing tests is not new and was frequent in 2D animation.. but not tests lasting between two days and a week... I think dutch might try and restore any lack of faith engendered by his post by responding.. I passed one of the tests on to someone who's response was.. are they taking the piss or are they taking the piss. :beer:

[SlipKorn]

Blackbox just got acquired by EA too, so you can be there just in time to go Porsche shopping with the gang when their stock options go through! What fun!!!

Of course, you won't be getting one, so better get cracking on that test. Oh, and the locomotion mocap files in the test package absolutely suck. It looks like the talent they got was running on ice with a stick up his ass the whole time. I can't believe companies pay $100 a move for crap like that. You're better off just creating your own walk and run cycles for this test


-sk

[goosh]

I don't know...

I mean.. I'm all for tests, but not just whole huge random tests like this.

I spent a lot of time and effort on my reel.. I just wish they would at least look at it.. If they like what they see, then they can call me and ask to do a test. I'm all for that... But this way... I don't know.. it doesn't sit well on my stomach..

G

[darthblevis]

My apologies for the length of this post.

Black Box is a lean company. The management layer within the company is VERY small. When we were a small (less than 30 people) it was possible to pass around all demo reels to every artists for a look, most often we would even be able to tell the applicant what was wrong with his reel or portfolio and offer some advice. If an individual was worth pursuing we asked for a phone interview. Then a real interview that ended with them meeting everyone in the company. If everything went well we would make them an offer.

**********

Problem #1: At 40 people it was too time consuming to show demo reels to everyone. More people, plus we were getting more reels. Additionaly, more than 90% of the demo reels we receive are substandard. As we grow we are looking for better and better people.

Solution #1: A few of us were selected to review the tapes and weed out the weak. The ones we deemed good enough would be passed along to everyone else in the company.

#1 Result: This process worked VERY well for almost a full year. Costing only three of us an hour each week to review tapes/cd's etc.

**********

Problem #2: The volume of tapes increased and tracking and relpying to the hundreds of applications we get each month required almost a full day a week from each of (3 artists plus two office managers). As much fun as it sounds to not work one day a week it can be very fustrating if you have a deadline.

Solution #2a: Weed out the applicants based on the number of years of relevant experience. Minimum two years.

#2a Result: This reduced the number of applications that got through to the artists but did not reduce the workload of the two office managers involved, who now had to look through each application to see how much experience everyone had and sort ones to be looked at and ones to be given automatic replies. Surprisingly, this had no visible effect of the quality of submissions, but did mean that kids just out of high school (like Dutch) with skills and potential would not even have a chance at having their work seen. Obviously this solution wasn't going to work.

**********

Solution #2b: Someone suggested an art test...

#2b Result: On the positive side it is completely fair to students and for some guys who have been working and don't have anything they can or want (like people from Mainframe) to put into a portfolio it is a good thing. Over time these test have become much harder and time consuming (about 3 days each), but we wanted to provide feedback to all applicants and we can't properly evaluate your ability from basic tests.

**********

Problem #3: This process will definitely alienate some very experienced and talented people who work contract, where time is money. That is obvious from what I've seen here.

Solution #3: What we plan to do is add another application process for individuals with 5 or more years of professional game experience or 7 or more years of professional experience in a related field. Instead of doing the test they can submit a small number of JPEG or GIF images (zipped under 1 meg) from the website. We will review the submissions just like we do the art tests and go from there.

Do you think something like that would be reasonable?

I hope you all can see this from our point of view. We are artists just like you guys and we don't want to exclude anyone from applying. Unfortunately, we just don't have the time to review 100 demo reels a month. I think this is probably the best solution for everyone.

[lacer8]

darthblevis - I assume that since you are still posting in regard to the position, that you are still accepting applications. Is this correct? I have just found this post today and would like to see what the test packages have inside and most likely give them a try.

[RPG2006]

For what one individuals point is worth.

I think it is important for us to highlight these situations/greevances, but it is a shame that there has been no reply to your last letter.

It is apparent that as well as a genuine love for the work we do, there are frustrations from both corners, and your explanantion has certainly clarified this.

I would however, like to thank you for reaching a compromise on this, albeit that it might not suit everyone, and wish you the best of luck.

[Gamoron]

Sheesh.

[Mark Somerville]

Unfortunately, we just don't have the time to review 100 demo reels a month. I think this is probably the best solution for everyone.

Well, when someone who's on my team drops their cards, I'm all for some 52 pickup, but if you can't handle your human resources, there's a guy over in the "looking for Jobs" section http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9067 just begging to do HR... I'd say that hiring someone like that is the usual course of action...
Best of luck.

[darthblevis]

Black Box is a lean company. The management layer within the company is VERY small.
We'd like to keep it that way. Thanks for the advice though.

[Mark Somerville]

Aw, I know that unwanted advice is just that... Usually worth what you pay for it, maybe never more so than when unemployed artists advise succesful video game developers.
Strangely magnetic thread, though, with all of us at our wit's end just trying to get on with our work.
Carry on;

[darthblevis]

The Character Texture Test and the Concept Art Test have been updated.

[Jason-Kane]

My vote,

Tests are the best way to evaluate skills. Seniority and pieces of paper such as degrees are nothing next to skills.

I have a BFA, but I landed my current job as a character modeler based on a test that I took against about 30 other modelers. Besides, if you are really good you have nothing to worry about and the test should not be that difficult for you. So many people are good at saying they are good at things. And using paperwork to confuse perspective employers into thinking they are talented, but only tests really prove they can do the specific task required of them.

Go Tests!

[Charlee]

Jepp! That´s right! I will make the concept test!

[Rob3D31]

__________________________________________________

OK. I'm really sorry to say this, but I'm getting extremely disgruntled about this whole art-test thing companies are starting to do lately. I know this has been around for a while now, but it's starting to turn into a standard now, which I have major problems with. I've been a professional artist for almost 6 years now. I have a portfolio, a reel and a resume. If you like what you see, then have me in for an interview. INTERVIEW me first and THEN ask me to do an art test, but only if you are absolutely sure you are going to hire me if I do well on it, otherwise you are wasting my time.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you aren't even asking to see reels or resume's, just some free work, which I think is completely unproffesional.
___________________________________________________

I agree, and all that talk about process...how long can it take to look at a few emailed pics of models and distinguish ability? If i have a collection of low poly work why should I waste a week createing this 4000 poly character without even the prospect of an interview. I understand you get alot of crap demos...but your still gonna get alot of crap art tests aswell. Of course none of these opinions are going to revolutionize Blackbox, or any other comapny for that matter...the art test is no doubt the best thing for THEM....so I guess for now we just grin and bear it it...like that mocap of the guy with the stick up his ass running on ice.

[dutch]

I feel that you guys are complaining too much. I landed my job at BlackBox because of the test and I’m damn happy the test was there because my reel sucked. If you don’t like the test don’t do it.

Rob: Why did you do the test if you’re so obviously against it?

Everybody: Please realize that theses tests for us are the most accurate way to judge some ones skill. Plus you get a response from industry professionals telling you what areas of the model need work and how to improve them. (This is recently with the newer tests.)

[Lube]

Remember you're trying to get a paying job with a good and proven game company. If you honestly think that they would steal your work to put in their games then you a lot to learn about being professional. Tests are made for specific purposes and are tailored to show desired and required skills, as well as letting highly skilled professionals whose demo reels may not represent what they really want to do show off their abilities.
BTW part of an animators job is to deal with bad mocap data, cleaning it up is a big part of their job. Real production isn't easy.

[arnel]

I am responding to all the negative comments relating to the art test. I have been in the industry for four years and I've worked on three successful games. I don't see the art test as being a problem. Instead, I see it as an opportunity to demonstrate your skills. People have to understand that you have to do some research before you apply at a company. Once you figure out their track record, (company culture,salary ect) then it's simple -- do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door. If you have time to complain about how much time it takes to do the test , or to complain about working for free, then you obviously have no passion or desire to work in the industry. My idea of a successful artist is this: a humble team player who lets his/her work speak for itself. These are the artists who have no problems finding work and they grow to have satisfying careers.


"ALL ACTION ARNEL"

[Ckerr812]

Hi all,

This is a great conversation. Anyway, this test IMHO, is a great idea. I mean, this gives everyone a chance to have there work seen and is a great excercise also.

I understand all the work that is put into a demo reel, I myself spent long hours on mine, but also, I think it's rather unfair that people with there demo reels show work that has been made (with help from others) and or produced in a team enviroment where maybe others picked up the slack for them. An example of this would be, I worked hard to get a character rig set up for a couple animators, this rig was amazing, I mean a monkey could animate this it was so well set up, but the animators did a piss pore job animating it due to tight dealines, and now all that great work I did dosen't even go in my demo reel because of the fact.

Personally I don't think my demo reel shows my skills because I was locked into doing squash and stretch animation for a TV show (to be unamed) that is really not what I would like to do. I love making characters like the ones in that test, and think it's a great idea. Plus, the company seems like a cool place to work for. Nice idea Blackbox. I hope more companies follow in these footsteps.

[Saurus]

People who got bad reel, but has game industry experience is probably more likely to be accepted, than people who are good, but no game experience. Did company like Black Box get the best person for the job, I don't thinks so. Is the test flawed, I think so. Everybody knows the tests. What stops people from getting someone from the industry to fix or even do the whole test for them. I think they should still check their reel, then give them the test with certain time limit to do the test and have several tests...so not one is the same. If their reel sucks, but because of game experience, they pass the test...they still suck and they don't have the best person for the job! The best candidate is good reel and good test.

Saurus

[Rob3D31]

"Rob: Why did you do the test if you’re so obviously against it?"

I did the test because I wanted the job, what other options are there? After dropping of my reel (which doesnt suck), samples of life drawings, a letter of reference, resume and cover letter I was asked to do the test, and I was happy to, I enjoy 3D and it was fun. My beef was that once I had completed and sent in the test I heard nothing back for over a month and eventually had to contact them to recieve a response that included an apology for the time it took for the reply and a generic email that told me I didnt meet the minimum requirements...no feedback...no reasons...nothing. I wonder if demo reels even get looked at? ..cause, as you said, yours sucks and you got a job... mine doesnt suck, and actually is quite good and I dont meet the minimum requirements....

So now they have a new test, and if I want job there I will do the test of course. The thing is as much as I enjoyed doing the work on the first test, the response I got was very unprofessional and anti-motivational.

-Quote-
Everybody: Please realize that theses tests for us are the most accurate way to judge some ones skill. Plus you get a response from industry professionals telling you what areas of the model need work and how to improve them. (This is recently with the newer tests.)

-Response-
No, I didnt get a response, or any feedback, or any advice.

Can you not tell, by looking at models of human beings how skilled a person may be? What their potential is?

Are you sure you mean the most acurate way? Or do you mean the most efficient way?

Obviously I was unlucky with the timing, but I hope you can understand my beef.

CKerr - If you think a good rig means good animation you have a lot to learn.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Well, I totally understand both sides of the argument here. But I will say that as a student who'll be looking for work in a year or so it's incredibly helpful to see what criteria I'd need to meet to get a job in the games industry. Anyone know of any cg/film/tv studios that have tests online?

[Rob3D31]

"Well, I totally understand both sides of the argument here"

I don't want to a part of an arguement, though I know I tend to write in an argumentative way. What I'm posting is only my personnal experience and I'm not trying to win any sort of arguement. I don't think there is any point in an arguement, the fact is you have to do a test if you want to work at blackbox.

Im not trying to change the system, just sharing my experience.

Goodluck to all who do the Tests! Some advice from me would be not waste a tape or and 2d samples on them though.

[PHRisCo]

I also work at Black Box Games as an artist and had to do multiple tests to get my postion originally. I was in contact with the company for quite a while, honing the skills they wanted to see me improve on. I wanted to work at Blackbox because of the reputation it had in Vancouver and the industry. All of the games BBG has created have been spectacular in their own rights. Over time, my skills flourished to a point were Black Box brought me on. I have not attended any post-secondary schools, but through a few years of hard work and perspiration, developed the skills to be paid to make video games. It's much more then pulling menus and pushing buttons, it's pulling polygons and pushing pixels. I have been with BBG for about a year now and have become very successful. If it hadn't been for the tests and feedback, if BBG brought me on originally as I was, I may very well have been less successful and may not be working there as of now. I worked for minimum wage for years, I know it sucks. I worked full-time and then went home to my tiny bachelor pad and worked on my tests for several hours every night for a long time...a LONG time. I didn't moan or complain, because it was definitely worth it. I work with and learn from the greatest talent this industry has to offer and I get my name on, and MY work in the best products this industry produces. Now wouldn't it be worth it for you, to sweat out some hours to get an awsome job making video games? It was worth it for me! If your good at what you do then why worry, there's a good chance you'll get in, because we are looking for good people, and that's the bottom line. NO we are not going to use your work for our games, it would be no fun if we looked at a build of OUR game and saw your work. Black Box Games, as of now, is the company of companies to work for in this industry. Awesome people, awesome environment, awesome culture, awesome games, what else could you ask for? These tests weed out the people who will work hard to keep this studio the way it always has been, AWESOME! Making video games is not a slack job, alot of sweat gets put into these products, but if your willing to put your time in, you will reap the rewards. That's my 2 cents. Good luck, and may the force be with you!

I had to add that last part, cause I'm a geek.

:bounce:

[prototyp3]

PHRisCo: So is the position still available? I have the modeled girl sitting here about 98% completed, but held from sending on grounds of this thread.

[PHRisCo]

I believe we are always looking for talented artists....if you are good, then we want you on our team, that's pretty much it.

Good Luck.

:buttrock:

[cor0070]

I got a test for the company here, it's not long to do, could take you about 3 days to complete...

The test is just to know if "you are good employers" asking if you pay benifits, about vacations, my work space, is there a cafeteria in the office and about a thousand other questions like that...

Will take you (the boss) only 2-3 days to fill.....

Will you do it?

I don't think so...

Anyways, good luck 'cause i don't know any "EXPERIENCED" 3d artist willing to take a test like that!

[visualasylum]

How Pathetic to hear all those unproffesional, childish, rude, and untolerated arguments against the test. If someone here knows how they screen 3d artists on the major firms, you will know that this test will give you a better and honest chance of getting or landing a dreamjob.

I personally would request the administrator to delete all these useless arguments, cause no employer would like to tolerate and waste their time reading text of no serious candidate.

I believe this thread "STUDIOS HIRING" should remain decent and with respect to the studios/firms/employers.

This Forum has a great reputation and one of the best for posting job positions, but this is very upsetting.

The main Keyword here is "RESPECT"

In a nutshell: If you're not interested, not serious, or against this testing method, then don't do the test. It's very democratic as it is. Create a thread outside of this section and argue your way into the wasteland, but don't insult others people hard work and experience.

I'm sure you would like your opinion to be heard, but always remember that there is others out there that will stay humble, work sleepless nights, take that extra mile to land that gig.


In the end, as a Employer, I would to request to the administrator to please evaluate my request for keeping this section clean of useless arguments towards the employers/studios/firms. Perhaps establishing posting rules etc.

regards,

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

I would hope that any employer posting job offers here would realize that they're posting to a FORUM, which means that any one can post comments regarding the job offer, both positive and negative. I am glad that Blackbox employees have realized this and participated in the discussion of their tests, instead of taking the condescending tone that you've taken.

[Rob3D31]

Well said Wigaru.
______________________________________________

Visualasylum Quotes

"How Pathetic to hear all those unproffesional, childish, rude, and untolerated arguments against the test."

"In the end, as a Employer, I would to request to the administrator to please evaluate my request for keeping this section clean of useless arguments towards the employers/studios/firms. Perhaps establishing posting rules etc"
______________________________________________

Well, now we all know what it would be like if Natzis ran 3D companies.

[Ckerr812]

Originally posted by visualasylum
How Pathetic to hear all those unproffesional, childish, rude, and untolerated arguments against the test. If someone here knows how they screen 3d artists on the major firms, you will know that this test will give you a better and honest chance of getting or landing a dreamjob.

I personally would request the administrator to delete all these useless arguments, cause no employer would like to tolerate and waste their time reading text of no serious candidate.

I believe this thread "STUDIOS HIRING" should remain decent and with respect to the studios/firms/employers.

This Forum has a great reputation and one of the best for posting job positions, but this is very upsetting.

The main Keyword here is "RESPECT"

In a nutshell: If you're not interested, not serious, or against this testing method, then don't do the test. It's very democratic as it is. Create a thread outside of this section and argue your way into the wasteland, but don't insult others people hard work and experience.

I'm sure you would like your opinion to be heard, but always remember that there is others out there that will stay humble, work sleepless nights, take that extra mile to land that gig.


In the end, as a Employer, I would to request to the administrator to please evaluate my request for keeping this section clean of useless arguments towards the employers/studios/firms. Perhaps establishing posting rules etc.

regards,

Well, I dunno, I kinda thought it was a healthy and productive discussion on the matter. People were saying the pro's and cons on the matter in an intellegent matter. No one was really slaming the company, or anyone that works there, but I see what you mean.

[Saurus]

______________________________________________

Visualasylum Quotes

"How Pathetic to hear all those unproffesional, childish, rude, and untolerated arguments against the test."

"In the end, as a Employer, I would to request to the administrator to please evaluate my request for keeping this section clean of useless arguments towards the employers/studios/firms. Perhaps establishing posting rules etc"
______________________________________________

For an employer, you have the benefit of posting jobs for free and having a great source of talents of all level, so the employer has to take the comments (bad and good) that comes with this forum. It is the WWW...Wild Wild World. Visualaslum, there is always the new paper's classified ad to post your ad. If childish comments are removed, then this childish icon's should I guess also removed:
:) :beer:;) :p :rolleyes:

saurus

[visualasylum]

Visualasylum Quotes
________________________________________________
For an employer, you have the benefit of posting jobs for free and having a great source of talents of all level, so the employer has to take the comments (bad and good) that comes with this forum. It is the WWW...Wild Wild World. Visualaslum, there is always the new paper's classified ad to post your ad. If childish comments are removed, then this childish icon's should I guess also removed:
________________________________________________

Thank you for your advice. But there's other better methods than
the new papers classified Ad. My point was that there's lack of respect and that's all. When you go to an interview you sure won't behave like this, cause no company wants a "smartass" on their team.

Please be advice that any comments towards my opinion will not be answered. If you feel you always need to have the last word, go ahead, and ask me if I care.

Nuff Said, I wish all you guys good luck with the tests.

Cheers,

[darthblevis]

The Character Modelling and Character Texture tests have been upgraded to included colored versions of the characters.

Kalvin

[MajesticSan]

You know I read this thread weeks ago when it was intially posted. I thought fair enough, I'm freelance and I would do the test to land the gig.


I come back to this thread months later, to see that the same little children bickering about having to do a test to land the job !

I argree with the employer who wants these threads more closley monitered. If the admin guys can't control these AMATUERS then the employees will go else where, and frankly I dont blame them.

[Rob3D31]

I think you guys who are posting about people who are a bit fed up with the tests and useing words like childish, rude, unprofessional and intolerable are missing something here. You seem to have completely overlooked "C:\" for one, a person with 6yrs experience, a well developed portfolio and demo reel. All he said he was a bit "disgruntled" and with all his experience he would appreciate if a company would at least view his work and tell him if he has a chance before he commits his time to a test. (maybe, like me, he has bills to pay and spending a week on this model when you have no chance at the job isnt the best thing to be doing) That is hardly childish or intolderable. I happen to have over 6yrs of education in visual arts (I'm 24) 4 yrs of graphic/web design experience, and 2 yrs of 3D schooling. While I'm looking for a 3D job I work as a self employed graphic/web artist, so before I commit the time to this 4000 poly character modeling test I would at least like to know, if based on my portfolio and reel, that they felt I had a chance. Is that so childish? And please, dont give me that crap about how you slave all day and night for your "dream job" because Ive been slaving through school for 7 yrs, the last 2 yrs at 16-18 hrs a day, not to mention working to pay for it all. I did it for the same reason as you, I love this stuff...I even think the tests are fun. But, to me this isnt a job based in dreamland, its a real job, and as a real artist with real experience all I am saying is that it would be nice to have some feedback before commiting my time.

I think the tests are great for guys who have never gone to school and dont have demo reels or portfolios and work with pirated softwares and have no experience, they get their stuff right in the door. Part of the reason for these tests is no doubt the amount of crap work these unskilled and inexperienced people flood these companies with. So if I, like that other fellow, seem a bit "disgruntled" you can chalk it up to my portfolio and reel being rendered useless by these annoying people. They honestly blow my mind, if you had never gone to school for mechanics would you apply to a garage? If you hadnt gone to law school would you try to join a firm? It's ridiculous.

Would it be such a problem if I was to email a pic of my own concept art with my own low poly model? It would be excellent for me, I would'nt lose a weeks pay. The prospective employer could look at it and say, "pretty impressive, we think you might have the skills to be a part of the team, you wanna take our test" or "You havent demonstrated the skills were looking for but feel free to take our test"....hardly intolerable or childish.

[vfs-frenchie]

I agree with u rob i think test is not useless but if u go to school for the whole 2years to make a demo reel and show wat u can do in 3 D to the company and finally they ask u to do and test
i would say : Euh!!! so should i put my tape in the garbage????
i think people deserve from each side some respect for the employer and the guy who try to get a job !!!
SO HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR EACH SIDE AND THINK AS AN ADULT !!! DON'T CRY LIKE A BABY !!!
WORK HARD EVERYBODY !!! TO REACH YOUR GOAL THAT"S IT !!1

[Asorson]

It seems that the people who have demo reels are mad because they would have to do a test rather than be judged on their demo reel.

Could that possibly be because their reel is not tailored to game development? The majority of reels that I've seen have been stuff that only loosely relates to actual game art, such as: High poly models, Visual Effects, Paintings,etc.

All that stuff is wonderfull, and you may be a great artist, and you [may] be able to adapt those skills to making game art. But then again maybe not. Game companies want to see low poly models, textures, animations, and concept art. If your reel is chalk full of that stuff already then what is the worse thing that could happened should you do the test?

You just have one more nice piece of game related art that you can add to your reel and show to other companies. Seems like if you are an unemployed artist seeking employment in the video game industry then that's what you should be spending your free time doing anyway. Modeling, texturing, animating, honing your skills. So why not model a hockey player while you're at it?

[MajesticSan]

My point exactly !!

Cheers,

by the way my latest game is out

FIREBLADE (done for Midway on PS2) go here to see my
contribution :- http://www.r-mitchell-artworks.co.uk/

and here for game info :- http://www.kuju.com/

enjoy.

[Rob3D31]

All of what you are saying Erik, is based off an assumption. (the content of demo reels)

If you re-read my previous post I think youll find the answers to your questions....it includes the reasons as to why I'm "mad" as you put it aswell as why I can't afford to put all my time into a test.

I do understand where you are coming from, but please realize, Im not "mad" about having to do a test. Again, if you re-read my post you'll find the answers to your questions and maybe you'll have a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

[Vic3k]

Rob3D31, Rob3D31. on the fly, just like the usual....

:love: :applause:

[Rob3D31]

I don't understand you. "On the fly"? ...Yeah, I'm pretty busy...but how is that relevant to this discussion?

:shrug:

btw - The link to your ongoing demo reel thread doesnt seem to work. No images, only red X's.

Goodluck with your demo:thumbsup:

[Vic3k]

hehe what is said wasn't ment to be understood. it's all how you look at the wording....:scream:

the Xs are only on the first few pages coz the first ones were posted long time ago and who knows where they were but on later pages there are pics.
anyway... i though you are going to europe? :)

[Rob3D31]

Definatly alot going on with perspectives and interpretation here...

I have a few offers on the table, a couple are here in Vancouver so I'm waiting on them. If they don't work out I will be going to Europe for the others.

Nice work btw.

[prototyp3]

I completed the test and received an email saying I 'passed' and that I should send in my demo reel or post a link to an online portfolio. That was almost 3 weeks ago with no follow up response provided to me.
I supported tests but it seems like it was a bit redundant with no benefit awarded - seen as test takers and those who haven't taken it both send reels to the same address.

[Asorson]

There is a benefit to the employer because they can put the reels of the people who have passed the test in a "these guys are good" pile and view those first. They can put the rest in a "never know what you're gonna get pile" and look at those on a rainy day some day. I think you would be surprised at the sheer volume of portfolios and resumes game companies recieve, and the very low percentage of quality work among them.

Rob3d1: I wasn't reffering to you directly. Just making a general observation. If a company I really wanted to work for (like Blizzard or something) asked me to do a test for them I would. However if "Joe Schmoes Games" wanted me to do a test then I might not. I guess it just depends on whether or not you really want the job and if it's worth a little of your free time to pursue it.

On the other hand I would have a bit of hesitation because would a company that asks you to sacrifice your spare time for free now also ask you to do so once your employed there? And is that the kind of place you want to work?

I'm not saying Black Box Games is one of those companies. But I've been involved in the process of reviewing reels and assisting in hiring decisions before (ughh) and also applying at jobs (also ughh :P) So can relate to both sides of this argument.

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