futagoza
05-27-2009, 06:06 PM
http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/news/article/developmental_changes_at_ei_technology_group
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Vizfizz
05-27-2009, 06:19 PM
So now everyone can finally understand all the issues that have been going on over the past few months.
mike33
05-27-2009, 06:27 PM
not really... it doesn't say much... just that a new company is being formed.
~Mike
~Mike
mike33
05-27-2009, 06:31 PM
not really... it doesn't say much... just that a new company is being formed.
~Mike
By the way, having Tomas Egger's name in there is a confidence booster in my eyes.
~Mike
By the way, having Tomas Egger's name in there is a confidence booster in my eyes.
Vizfizz
05-27-2009, 06:42 PM
Well if EITG was trying to work out negotiation deals over the past couple of months with its developers....it could explain all kinds of things...particularly the situation with Ramjac as well. Either way, I wish the best of luck to Tomas and the Igors.
3DArtZ
05-27-2009, 06:42 PM
Im sort of scratching my head on this. who is the boss here? who will be primarily developing the software?
And what are the goals of the company, other then to make the awesomely strong excellent software (Im joking on the description there btw)?
And what are the goals of the company, other then to make the awesomely strong excellent software (Im joking on the description there btw)?
richardjoly
05-27-2009, 07:35 PM
Like Yoda would say: Mmmmmm, clear as mud this is...
While I offer my congratulation to the new developers team and wish them luck in their endeavor, I is still not clear (yeah, I'm slow...) why all of these people could not be developing EIAS together. Incompatibility of thought? Different roadmap for development? conflicting programing technique? pissing contest? Money?
How will this be positive for us (the users)? Do we officially loose all Ramjac products? Any plans to replace Xpressionist and Rodeo? Or re-integrate them?
Where are we collectively going? Mmmmmm, clear as mud still this is...
While I offer my congratulation to the new developers team and wish them luck in their endeavor, I is still not clear (yeah, I'm slow...) why all of these people could not be developing EIAS together. Incompatibility of thought? Different roadmap for development? conflicting programing technique? pissing contest? Money?
How will this be positive for us (the users)? Do we officially loose all Ramjac products? Any plans to replace Xpressionist and Rodeo? Or re-integrate them?
Where are we collectively going? Mmmmmm, clear as mud still this is...
Vizfizz
05-27-2009, 07:37 PM
3DArtz
EI is a decentralized, but closed product. Its not open source, yet it relies on specific external developers to advance the product. (Aka, Blair Burtan, The Igors, Ramjac, and so forth). Back in the earlier days of EI, this decentralized method worked well. EI didn't really need to absorb those 3rd party technologies into its core because people were satisfied with the way things were going. EI had money and influence and its own developmental agenda with ILM which resulted in certain assurances in EI's future and future technologies. Decent sales of plugins and shaders for the 3rd parties could be experienced for all of those who tagged along. People could make a living doing that. Today EIAS influence isn't as extensive. (The result is less income for 3rd parties)
EI provided the base, 3rd parties filled in the gaps. Everything else relied on Camera's prowess to succeed. By failing to absorb or replace those 3rd party technologies as EIAS naturally progressed, EI got dependent on them. Thanks to the various hurdles and challenges EI faced during the Play years, it was those developers that kept things going. Not only that, they became extremely familiar with the internal structures of the application and its code making them difficult to replace. As they say, if you don't want to get fired, find a way to make yourself irreplaceable.
Today, its getting harder and harder to compete in the 3D industry. My guess is EI's developers felt they needed to take action to ensure their futures and their time investment in the product. The plugin paradigm was no longer enough for them and it looks like they wanted more. (Whether that's more money or more control) So what do you do when you're a 3D company that's reliant on legacy developers to keep moving forward especially if they threaten to pull their products or services from the lineup? (Take Ramjac for instance).
You renegotiate.
Its either that or shell out lots of bucks to find adequate replacements. Difficult for such a legacy product I would imagine.
So who's the boss? That's a good question. Its something EITG and its developers are going to have to work out.
EI is a decentralized, but closed product. Its not open source, yet it relies on specific external developers to advance the product. (Aka, Blair Burtan, The Igors, Ramjac, and so forth). Back in the earlier days of EI, this decentralized method worked well. EI didn't really need to absorb those 3rd party technologies into its core because people were satisfied with the way things were going. EI had money and influence and its own developmental agenda with ILM which resulted in certain assurances in EI's future and future technologies. Decent sales of plugins and shaders for the 3rd parties could be experienced for all of those who tagged along. People could make a living doing that. Today EIAS influence isn't as extensive. (The result is less income for 3rd parties)
EI provided the base, 3rd parties filled in the gaps. Everything else relied on Camera's prowess to succeed. By failing to absorb or replace those 3rd party technologies as EIAS naturally progressed, EI got dependent on them. Thanks to the various hurdles and challenges EI faced during the Play years, it was those developers that kept things going. Not only that, they became extremely familiar with the internal structures of the application and its code making them difficult to replace. As they say, if you don't want to get fired, find a way to make yourself irreplaceable.
Today, its getting harder and harder to compete in the 3D industry. My guess is EI's developers felt they needed to take action to ensure their futures and their time investment in the product. The plugin paradigm was no longer enough for them and it looks like they wanted more. (Whether that's more money or more control) So what do you do when you're a 3D company that's reliant on legacy developers to keep moving forward especially if they threaten to pull their products or services from the lineup? (Take Ramjac for instance).
You renegotiate.
Its either that or shell out lots of bucks to find adequate replacements. Difficult for such a legacy product I would imagine.
So who's the boss? That's a good question. Its something EITG and its developers are going to have to work out.
plsyvjeucxfw
05-27-2009, 07:39 PM
I do not think this bodes well. In fact, it rather freaks me out.
EITG is dropping development of Animator. (Well - I suspected long ago it was dead, abandoned.)
Development will continue under the Igors and Tomas Egger. (I knew Tomas was a hugely talented user but I didn't know he was also a programmer.) The Igors excel at creating rendering solutions but I fear for advances in Animation. Of course Tomas does character work so perhaps that one could come out even.
EITG will continue developing it's new modeling application. In a world over loaded with cheap modeling applications I can't see that one fly. If the new modeling application becomes an animation solution, i.e. able to write .ccn files, then what? I have to own two applications to get any work done? If the modeling application expands to include it's own renderer then what? EITG competes directly against it's former product?
This completely over turns any previous assumptions we may have had about where EITG is going with it's product line, and I seriously doubt it will have a successful outcome.
I hope Tomas and the Igors chime in quickly, because I've got a serious case of the heeby jeebies!
EITG is dropping development of Animator. (Well - I suspected long ago it was dead, abandoned.)
Development will continue under the Igors and Tomas Egger. (I knew Tomas was a hugely talented user but I didn't know he was also a programmer.) The Igors excel at creating rendering solutions but I fear for advances in Animation. Of course Tomas does character work so perhaps that one could come out even.
EITG will continue developing it's new modeling application. In a world over loaded with cheap modeling applications I can't see that one fly. If the new modeling application becomes an animation solution, i.e. able to write .ccn files, then what? I have to own two applications to get any work done? If the modeling application expands to include it's own renderer then what? EITG competes directly against it's former product?
This completely over turns any previous assumptions we may have had about where EITG is going with it's product line, and I seriously doubt it will have a successful outcome.
I hope Tomas and the Igors chime in quickly, because I've got a serious case of the heeby jeebies!
juanxer
05-27-2009, 07:41 PM
I am a bit lost here, because I tend to confuse who's who and which one does what. The Igors I get (hoping not to sound presumptuous), but I don't know anything about the strengths of the other people involved.
Anyway. The impression I get is that EITG has decided to stop dealing with EIAS' rather conflicted developmental state and associated costs, trim it out of the company while (probably) arranging to have access to Camera's technology, and focus solely on Tesla (which suggests they see it as a really good sellable product and/or even as a really working foundation for a future EIAS replacement), at least as a state for the company to reach mid term. I guess the current economy and the internal politics have suggested this path.
Well. This is a bit frightening, but it could be interesting. First thing to know is how this affects EIAS' development, in the sense of what directions and goals the new team wants to pursue. Were there any big ideas they felt they couldn't implement while in EITG and viceversa? Will they reinforce the app towards certain markets? Will they modernize the underlying framework? Etc.
Also, have they decided a company name and logo already? :)
Anyway. The impression I get is that EITG has decided to stop dealing with EIAS' rather conflicted developmental state and associated costs, trim it out of the company while (probably) arranging to have access to Camera's technology, and focus solely on Tesla (which suggests they see it as a really good sellable product and/or even as a really working foundation for a future EIAS replacement), at least as a state for the company to reach mid term. I guess the current economy and the internal politics have suggested this path.
Well. This is a bit frightening, but it could be interesting. First thing to know is how this affects EIAS' development, in the sense of what directions and goals the new team wants to pursue. Were there any big ideas they felt they couldn't implement while in EITG and viceversa? Will they reinforce the app towards certain markets? Will they modernize the underlying framework? Etc.
Also, have they decided a company name and logo already? :)
Vizfizz
05-27-2009, 07:49 PM
Kurt,
A lot depends on the "fine print" of the new deal. My guess is the Igors and Tomas are developmental "partners" with EITG now. They'll be handling Animator while EITG will be handling Modeler. I seriously doubt Brad handed over Camera. That, most likely, remains in possession of EITG. Realistically nothing much should change to the user. Its only where the money is flowing from the result of sales.
A lot depends on the "fine print" of the new deal. My guess is the Igors and Tomas are developmental "partners" with EITG now. They'll be handling Animator while EITG will be handling Modeler. I seriously doubt Brad handed over Camera. That, most likely, remains in possession of EITG. Realistically nothing much should change to the user. Its only where the money is flowing from the result of sales.
halfworld
05-27-2009, 08:16 PM
For the end user, this basically means that it will be easier for both companies to bring more developers on board, that EITG and this new company will be focused on their respective products, and, yes, this new company will try and bring Ramjac back into the fold.
This is most certainly a partnership, and a situation like this exists at both Autodesk (think MR) and Chaos Group (think the excellent PDP), so it isn't uncommon. If anything this partnership will be even closer then either of those.
My thoughts, based on knowing what I do, but not having talked to the parties involved, yet!
Ian
This is most certainly a partnership, and a situation like this exists at both Autodesk (think MR) and Chaos Group (think the excellent PDP), so it isn't uncommon. If anything this partnership will be even closer then either of those.
My thoughts, based on knowing what I do, but not having talked to the parties involved, yet!
Ian
3DArtZ
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
retracted statement. going to reverve judgement till I get the upgrade.
Veehoy
05-27-2009, 09:29 PM
retracted statement. going to reverve judgement till I get the upgrade. Think I´m going to reverve the upgrade till I get the judgement :)
mike33
05-27-2009, 09:50 PM
For the end user, this basically means that it will be easier for both companies to bring more developers on board, that EITG and this new company will be focused on their respective products, and, yes, this new company will try and bring Ramjac back into the fold.
This is most certainly a partnership, and a situation like this exists at both Autodesk (think MR) and Chaos Group (think the excellent PDP), so it isn't uncommon. If anything this partnership will be even closer then either of those.
My thoughts, based on knowing what I do, but not having talked to the parties involved, yet!
Ian
MR? PDP? What do those Acronyms stand for?
...Seems like EITG is still shaking out the Play years...
If I had a request to Brad, Igors, Tomas, 3rd party folks is could you please give us a CLEAR and UNDERSTANDABLE explanation of which company is developing EIAS/Modeler X/Camera/Plug ins and where development is going in the future.
I agree with Yoda Joly... clear as mud ...and it really needn't be.
Cheers Mike...
PS still working on a community project phase 3 illustration. I have a concept that may work better then the one on the thread, closer to the original winning idea me thinks... probably a week or two away from posting based on my daily lifes current status. Sorry i'm taking so long.
This is most certainly a partnership, and a situation like this exists at both Autodesk (think MR) and Chaos Group (think the excellent PDP), so it isn't uncommon. If anything this partnership will be even closer then either of those.
My thoughts, based on knowing what I do, but not having talked to the parties involved, yet!
Ian
MR? PDP? What do those Acronyms stand for?
...Seems like EITG is still shaking out the Play years...
If I had a request to Brad, Igors, Tomas, 3rd party folks is could you please give us a CLEAR and UNDERSTANDABLE explanation of which company is developing EIAS/Modeler X/Camera/Plug ins and where development is going in the future.
I agree with Yoda Joly... clear as mud ...and it really needn't be.
Cheers Mike...
PS still working on a community project phase 3 illustration. I have a concept that may work better then the one on the thread, closer to the original winning idea me thinks... probably a week or two away from posting based on my daily lifes current status. Sorry i'm taking so long.
halfworld
05-27-2009, 09:54 PM
MR = Mental Ray
PDP = PDP Player
PDP = PDP Player
matthoff
05-28-2009, 01:08 AM
Naturally everyone has questions. Before talking about the future, let
me talk about the recent past and the present.
Brad owns several rapidly growing companies that supply web design and
support services. He owns EITG, hosting the web site, dealing with
sales calls, shipping dongles and disks, and paying the Igors and some
others to develop.
Brad doesn't set the direction of development or design for EIAS. This
has been done as part of a collaboration between myself, the Igors,
Tomas, Jens, Ian, Brian and the most active beta testers.
Brad wants to focus on Tesla and his other companies. The Igors, Tomas
and others want to focus on EIAS (Animator, Camera, and Rama).
Therefore, Tomas and Igors will take over the technical development
responsibility (which they really already have in great part) and the
administrative responsiblity (which Brad doesn't really want to deal
with).
I for one think it is important the the people that own and run the
company have a passion for the technical aspects of the product. Tomas
and the Igors clearly have that passion and have great ideas for V9 and
beyond.
Matt Hoffman
me talk about the recent past and the present.
Brad owns several rapidly growing companies that supply web design and
support services. He owns EITG, hosting the web site, dealing with
sales calls, shipping dongles and disks, and paying the Igors and some
others to develop.
Brad doesn't set the direction of development or design for EIAS. This
has been done as part of a collaboration between myself, the Igors,
Tomas, Jens, Ian, Brian and the most active beta testers.
Brad wants to focus on Tesla and his other companies. The Igors, Tomas
and others want to focus on EIAS (Animator, Camera, and Rama).
Therefore, Tomas and Igors will take over the technical development
responsibility (which they really already have in great part) and the
administrative responsiblity (which Brad doesn't really want to deal
with).
I for one think it is important the the people that own and run the
company have a passion for the technical aspects of the product. Tomas
and the Igors clearly have that passion and have great ideas for V9 and
beyond.
Matt Hoffman
Burney
05-28-2009, 02:03 AM
Clear enough. One is a very capable legacy products like an old Japanese craftsman but excel in some old time unique skills, another is a new product with new vision, innovative thoughts and new level of confidence. Instead of trying to work out a compromise roadmap between the two groups of thinkers, it is wiser to put them in separate battlefields to avoid choking the future of the products.
cjberg
05-28-2009, 02:07 AM
Personally, and selfishly... I feel that Tomas being a controlling factor for EIAS is the best news I have heard since v5.5. I have talked with Tomas for many years about the future of EIAS, and I have faith in his vision.
Cj
Cj
splitpoint
05-28-2009, 03:33 AM
Well....uhm...That was unexpected.
Guess we'll see how things turn out, hopefully things will turn out well.
Guess we'll see how things turn out, hopefully things will turn out well.
ReginaldThomasJr
05-28-2009, 03:53 AM
Think I´m going to reverve the upgrade till I get the judgement :)
Yeah..., I think I'm going to reserve the upgrade till I get the judgement as well. This smells to me. I've smelt this funk before and I don't like it. I have supported this program (still do) for many years, but springing this on us before an expensive upgrade and before the vaunted Tesla appears (promised, but...). EIAS appears to be on shaky ground.
For the first time in my support for the product and company, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude. Maybe start learning a little Maya.
Yeah..., I think I'm going to reserve the upgrade till I get the judgement as well. This smells to me. I've smelt this funk before and I don't like it. I have supported this program (still do) for many years, but springing this on us before an expensive upgrade and before the vaunted Tesla appears (promised, but...). EIAS appears to be on shaky ground.
For the first time in my support for the product and company, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude. Maybe start learning a little Maya.
Martin Kay
05-28-2009, 07:26 AM
Yeah..., I think I'm going to reserve the upgrade till I get the judgement as well. This smells to me. I've smelt this funk before and I don't like it. I have supported this program (still do) for many years, but springing this on us before an expensive upgrade and before the vaunted Tesla appears (promised, but...). EIAS appears to be on shaky ground.
For the first time in my support for the product and company, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude. Maybe start learning a little Maya.
I use the word 'alternative' very loosely as EI is no alternative to anything really- it doesn't really seriously compete with anything.
I've spent some time messing with Vs7 in anticipation of seeing what Vs8 can bring, but accepting the limitations of a program that badly needs some 'modernisation' in a few areas associated with convenience of use, I find that EI, for me is lacking in other crucial areas.
I'll give 8 a go to see how it performs
Martin K
For the first time in my support for the product and company, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude. Maybe start learning a little Maya.
I use the word 'alternative' very loosely as EI is no alternative to anything really- it doesn't really seriously compete with anything.
I've spent some time messing with Vs7 in anticipation of seeing what Vs8 can bring, but accepting the limitations of a program that badly needs some 'modernisation' in a few areas associated with convenience of use, I find that EI, for me is lacking in other crucial areas.
I'll give 8 a go to see how it performs
Martin K
juanxer
05-28-2009, 07:57 AM
Well, for those of us that this release made sense, it still does. Also, I had to recall my ninja assassins after recent reassurances that V.8 was shipping, and sending them back is such a nuisance... :D
In a way, this seems a move for the better, given the standpoint of where we were before. The EI guys gain control, involvement and, one hopes, motivation. Brad gains avoiding having a heart attack any minute now, I guess :) . What I still hope is for some cross-pollination between Team EIAS and Team Tesla (well, Igors: what now about the .AI format import, Tesla being another company's entity now? :twisted: Joking, joking... up to a point :rolleyes: ).
We'll see what happens.
In a way, this seems a move for the better, given the standpoint of where we were before. The EI guys gain control, involvement and, one hopes, motivation. Brad gains avoiding having a heart attack any minute now, I guess :) . What I still hope is for some cross-pollination between Team EIAS and Team Tesla (well, Igors: what now about the .AI format import, Tesla being another company's entity now? :twisted: Joking, joking... up to a point :rolleyes: ).
We'll see what happens.
AVTPro
05-28-2009, 10:56 AM
Animator's development moving in the hands of Tomas is a very good thing, especially with the kind of work he produces, the clients he serves, his staff and background.
Congratulations.
Congratulations.
ediris
05-28-2009, 11:17 AM
The news are great indeed, EIAS is not dead but it will required some time. They just need time meanwhile i am with another alternatives.;(
Edgard
Edgard
mike33
05-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Naturally everyone has questions. Before talking about the future, let
me talk about the recent past and the present.
Brad owns several rapidly growing companies that supply web design and
support services. He owns EITG, hosting the web site, dealing with
sales calls, shipping dongles and disks, and paying the Igors and some
others to develop.
Brad doesn't set the direction of development or design for EIAS. This
has been done as part of a collaboration between myself, the Igors,
Tomas, Jens, Ian, Brian and the most active beta testers.
Brad wants to focus on Tesla and his other companies. The Igors, Tomas
and others want to focus on EIAS (Animator, Camera, and Rama).
Therefore, Tomas and Igors will take over the technical development
responsibility (which they really already have in great part) and the
administrative responsiblity (which Brad doesn't really want to deal
with).
I for one think it is important the the people that own and run the
company have a passion for the technical aspects of the product. Tomas
and the Igors clearly have that passion and have great ideas for V9 and
beyond.
Matt Hoffman
Thanks Matt and Ian for the clarity. It sounds like you all are getting a better focus, especially if people are working on items they have a passion and interest for. Also glad to hear people still have an interest in keeping the development going.
I hope you are able to succeed moving forward.
Cheers,
Mike
me talk about the recent past and the present.
Brad owns several rapidly growing companies that supply web design and
support services. He owns EITG, hosting the web site, dealing with
sales calls, shipping dongles and disks, and paying the Igors and some
others to develop.
Brad doesn't set the direction of development or design for EIAS. This
has been done as part of a collaboration between myself, the Igors,
Tomas, Jens, Ian, Brian and the most active beta testers.
Brad wants to focus on Tesla and his other companies. The Igors, Tomas
and others want to focus on EIAS (Animator, Camera, and Rama).
Therefore, Tomas and Igors will take over the technical development
responsibility (which they really already have in great part) and the
administrative responsiblity (which Brad doesn't really want to deal
with).
I for one think it is important the the people that own and run the
company have a passion for the technical aspects of the product. Tomas
and the Igors clearly have that passion and have great ideas for V9 and
beyond.
Matt Hoffman
Thanks Matt and Ian for the clarity. It sounds like you all are getting a better focus, especially if people are working on items they have a passion and interest for. Also glad to hear people still have an interest in keeping the development going.
I hope you are able to succeed moving forward.
Cheers,
Mike
Jens C. Möller
05-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Hamburg - May 2009
With the date of the shipment of the Electric Image Animation System V8 on the 27th of May 2009 ramjac Software discontinues all business relations with the Electric Image Technology Group. The right to distrubute OBJ2FACT has ended with this day. The right to bundle ramjac Software with any EITG product and any related documents and materials in any form has ended. Also all distribution of any material and/or products owned by ramjac Software has ended. The EITG is advised to remove our software from their website and all downloads that are currently available on the EITG website.
ramjac has been in negotiation with the EITG about a solution for about the last half year. The negotiations finally have failed and we see no basis for any further business relation to the Electric Image Technology Group in any form.
Our products Xpressionist and Rodeo will no longer be available from the EITG. However, users of the EIAS V7 or any other former Version of the EIAS that contained Xpressionist and Rodeo have a legal license and can use their licensed software further, also with EIAS V8 as a new host. However, such licenses will not be supported anymore by ramjac in any way.
Purchasers of a new license of the EIAS starting with EIAS V8 do not have purchased a valid license of any of our products and must obtain a license from ramjac Software.
Since we did not belive that all this was really necessary and we would find any other solution than the current we do not have any alternative distribution system or any new licensing scheme we could offer to our users in this date. However, we will verify all our options very carefully and announce anything new regarding our products and their availability in an appropriate time frame.
If you have any inquiry about our products please send us an email.
Thank you for your understanding.
ramjac Software
With the date of the shipment of the Electric Image Animation System V8 on the 27th of May 2009 ramjac Software discontinues all business relations with the Electric Image Technology Group. The right to distrubute OBJ2FACT has ended with this day. The right to bundle ramjac Software with any EITG product and any related documents and materials in any form has ended. Also all distribution of any material and/or products owned by ramjac Software has ended. The EITG is advised to remove our software from their website and all downloads that are currently available on the EITG website.
ramjac has been in negotiation with the EITG about a solution for about the last half year. The negotiations finally have failed and we see no basis for any further business relation to the Electric Image Technology Group in any form.
Our products Xpressionist and Rodeo will no longer be available from the EITG. However, users of the EIAS V7 or any other former Version of the EIAS that contained Xpressionist and Rodeo have a legal license and can use their licensed software further, also with EIAS V8 as a new host. However, such licenses will not be supported anymore by ramjac in any way.
Purchasers of a new license of the EIAS starting with EIAS V8 do not have purchased a valid license of any of our products and must obtain a license from ramjac Software.
Since we did not belive that all this was really necessary and we would find any other solution than the current we do not have any alternative distribution system or any new licensing scheme we could offer to our users in this date. However, we will verify all our options very carefully and announce anything new regarding our products and their availability in an appropriate time frame.
If you have any inquiry about our products please send us an email.
Thank you for your understanding.
ramjac Software
AVTPro
05-28-2009, 03:26 PM
How could this happen?
This is bad news. :banghead:
This is bad news. :banghead:
PaulS2
05-28-2009, 03:31 PM
I use the word 'alternative' very loosely as EI is no alternative to anything really- it doesn't really seriously compete with anything.
...and no-one seems to have noticed that the 27th has come and gone... I've spent some time messing with Vs7 in anticipation of seeing what Vs8 can bring, but accepting the limitations of a program that badly needs some 'modernisation' in a few areas associated with convenience of use, I find that EI, for me is lacking in other crucial areas. I wont bother to download my copy of vs8. In fact I've binned everything associated with EI in an attempt to stop myself messing around with it..Lol!
With EI I think it's a case of too little too late and as PaulS has said EI is no longer 'Night & Day' of renders. Rendered objects from Camera look great in a close-up scene, but in a busy scene and from a distance I can see no advantage in using Camera over say, Modo or C4d. That's it.
Martin K
I think the question of alternative only comes into play from certain points of view. High res (huge res), high poly counts at a very affordable price-point on a basic machine. Simple animation, effortlessly done - rock solid performance and procedurals second to none. Great output quality.
If you have something which does all of the above please let me know:-).
I don't think this change has effected EI in any negative way.....probably is a more positive company now as it's in the hands of a very competant user and the main programmers. I think the desire to get it right will be there even more.
EI, for the last numnber of years, has been on fairly shakey ground as it was...this is probably a more positive direction than before. I think the Igors dictated, to a large degree, where EI went....now they are in a position where they really have to listen to their users if they want to be successful.
I'll keep using EI for what it does well...and continue to use other software for it's strenghts.
...and no-one seems to have noticed that the 27th has come and gone... I've spent some time messing with Vs7 in anticipation of seeing what Vs8 can bring, but accepting the limitations of a program that badly needs some 'modernisation' in a few areas associated with convenience of use, I find that EI, for me is lacking in other crucial areas. I wont bother to download my copy of vs8. In fact I've binned everything associated with EI in an attempt to stop myself messing around with it..Lol!
With EI I think it's a case of too little too late and as PaulS has said EI is no longer 'Night & Day' of renders. Rendered objects from Camera look great in a close-up scene, but in a busy scene and from a distance I can see no advantage in using Camera over say, Modo or C4d. That's it.
Martin K
I think the question of alternative only comes into play from certain points of view. High res (huge res), high poly counts at a very affordable price-point on a basic machine. Simple animation, effortlessly done - rock solid performance and procedurals second to none. Great output quality.
If you have something which does all of the above please let me know:-).
I don't think this change has effected EI in any negative way.....probably is a more positive company now as it's in the hands of a very competant user and the main programmers. I think the desire to get it right will be there even more.
EI, for the last numnber of years, has been on fairly shakey ground as it was...this is probably a more positive direction than before. I think the Igors dictated, to a large degree, where EI went....now they are in a position where they really have to listen to their users if they want to be successful.
I'll keep using EI for what it does well...and continue to use other software for it's strenghts.
richardjoly
05-28-2009, 06:39 PM
...we do not have any alternative distribution system or any new licensing scheme we could offer to our users in this date. However, we will verify all our options very carefully and announce anything new regarding our products and their availability in an appropriate time frame...
Well, Paralumino comes to mind...
Now that it's clear Ramjac products will no longer come in the EIAS box, I really hope these excellent pieces of software find a new home fast. All of them are a must in the EIAS arsenal and users should have the chance to see them in action on the new store to appreciate their power. I sincerely wish you good luck in this reorganization.
Well, Paralumino comes to mind...
Now that it's clear Ramjac products will no longer come in the EIAS box, I really hope these excellent pieces of software find a new home fast. All of them are a must in the EIAS arsenal and users should have the chance to see them in action on the new store to appreciate their power. I sincerely wish you good luck in this reorganization.
ReginaldThomasJr
05-28-2009, 07:16 PM
Well, Paralumino comes to mind...
Now that it's clear Ramjac products will no longer come in the EIAS box, I really hope these excellent pieces of software find a new home fast. All of them are a must in the EIAS arsenal and users should have the chance to see them in action on the new store to appreciate their power. I sincerely wish you good luck in this reorganization.
Is it too much to hope that they'd be incorporated into EIAS?
Now that it's clear Ramjac products will no longer come in the EIAS box, I really hope these excellent pieces of software find a new home fast. All of them are a must in the EIAS arsenal and users should have the chance to see them in action on the new store to appreciate their power. I sincerely wish you good luck in this reorganization.
Is it too much to hope that they'd be incorporated into EIAS?
Veehoy
05-28-2009, 07:57 PM
Is it too much to hope that they'd be incorporated into EIAS?My guess is it will become yet another of those extra expenses users of EIAS is all to familiar with... :curious:
ReginaldThomasJr
05-28-2009, 08:02 PM
My guess is it will become "another" of those extra expenses users of EIAS is all to familiar with... :curious:
My hope is that EIAS will become more PC friendly. I always look longingly at the plugins available for EIAS on the Mac while my PC is left feeling neglected - like a stepchild.
My hope is that EIAS will become more PC friendly. I always look longingly at the plugins available for EIAS on the Mac while my PC is left feeling neglected - like a stepchild.
Frankg
05-28-2009, 09:03 PM
I cannot understand why this item is discussed in public.
I would prefer an official statement from both (or all three) sides when facts are made.
regards
Frankg
I would prefer an official statement from both (or all three) sides when facts are made.
regards
Frankg
halfworld
05-28-2009, 09:06 PM
I think an official statement will be made by this new company (I think it's still nameless) next week that should clear up a few things. Rest assured, work has already begun on the next version of EIAS.
Ian
Ian
arketype
05-28-2009, 11:20 PM
My hope is that EIAS will become more PC friendly. I always look longingly at the plugins available for EIAS on the Mac while my PC is left feeling neglected - like a stepchild.
What plugs are you looking for?
All of the "konkeptoine" plugs at EITG's store are cross platform. ;)
In addition, the freebies that have been developed recently
(Mousetracker, and EXR2Mesh) are also Mac AND Windows compatible. ;)
Power Particles Pro is also available for Windows. ;)
I think the only item I am aware of that is NOT Windows compatible is OBJ2fac.
In fact, I think Onyx Tree Storm (Awesome Plug) still works on Windows, but not on the Mac, since an OSX version has yet to be produced.
What is it that you are missing on Windows?
Dave
What plugs are you looking for?
All of the "konkeptoine" plugs at EITG's store are cross platform. ;)
In addition, the freebies that have been developed recently
(Mousetracker, and EXR2Mesh) are also Mac AND Windows compatible. ;)
Power Particles Pro is also available for Windows. ;)
I think the only item I am aware of that is NOT Windows compatible is OBJ2fac.
In fact, I think Onyx Tree Storm (Awesome Plug) still works on Windows, but not on the Mac, since an OSX version has yet to be produced.
What is it that you are missing on Windows?
Dave
juanxer
05-28-2009, 11:22 PM
"And so it begins"... another cycle of the EIAS karmic wheel :thumbsup: .
I hope the guys can be a bit candid about how things have evolved into this new setup, and what are their aspirations and goals, specially on shaking things up a bit. Also, about how they and EITG will interact from now on, and what this means for Tesla's further integration into the EIAS workflow (if any, now).
Also, any plugins and shaders developer wanting to chime in? Is this good for them?
I hope the guys can be a bit candid about how things have evolved into this new setup, and what are their aspirations and goals, specially on shaking things up a bit. Also, about how they and EITG will interact from now on, and what this means for Tesla's further integration into the EIAS workflow (if any, now).
Also, any plugins and shaders developer wanting to chime in? Is this good for them?
arketype
05-29-2009, 12:41 AM
oops............
arketype
05-29-2009, 12:43 AM
Off the top of my mind I can only think of Encage.
Encage is right here if you need it ;)
http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/products/encage
(strange that my replies are not coming in after yours?!?!)
Encage is right here if you need it ;)
http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/products/encage
(strange that my replies are not coming in after yours?!?!)
ReginaldThomasJr
05-29-2009, 12:44 AM
What plugs are you looking for?
All of the "konkeptoine" plugs at EITG's store are cross platform. ;)
In addition, the freebies that have been developed recently
(Mousetracker, and EXR2Mesh) are also Mac AND Windows compatible. ;)
Power Particles Pro is also available for Windows. ;)
I think the only item I am aware of that is NOT Windows compatible is OBJ2fac.
In fact, I think Onyx Tree Storm (Awesome Plug) still works on Windows, but not on the Mac, since an OSX version has yet to be produced.
What is it that you are missing on Windows?
Dave
Off the top of my mind I can only think of Encage.
All of the "konkeptoine" plugs at EITG's store are cross platform. ;)
In addition, the freebies that have been developed recently
(Mousetracker, and EXR2Mesh) are also Mac AND Windows compatible. ;)
Power Particles Pro is also available for Windows. ;)
I think the only item I am aware of that is NOT Windows compatible is OBJ2fac.
In fact, I think Onyx Tree Storm (Awesome Plug) still works on Windows, but not on the Mac, since an OSX version has yet to be produced.
What is it that you are missing on Windows?
Dave
Off the top of my mind I can only think of Encage.
Vizfizz
05-29-2009, 01:33 AM
"And so it begins"... another cycle of the EIAS karmic wheel :thumbsup: .
I hope the guys can be a bit candid about how things have evolved into this new setup, and what are their aspirations and goals, specially on shaking things up a bit. Also, about how they and EITG will interact from now on, and what this means for Tesla's further integration into the EIAS workflow (if any, now).
I'm afraid the "whole" story over this situation will not be told. I could chime in and give my perspective on all of this, but I'm afraid it would only wind up pissing people off. I'm sure the business details of the new arrangement will be made known soon enough.
I hope the guys can be a bit candid about how things have evolved into this new setup, and what are their aspirations and goals, specially on shaking things up a bit. Also, about how they and EITG will interact from now on, and what this means for Tesla's further integration into the EIAS workflow (if any, now).
I'm afraid the "whole" story over this situation will not be told. I could chime in and give my perspective on all of this, but I'm afraid it would only wind up pissing people off. I'm sure the business details of the new arrangement will be made known soon enough.
3dData
05-29-2009, 02:15 AM
Why does all this remind me of a soap opera? :)
Gigayoda
05-29-2009, 02:59 AM
Ian, Brad and EI Gang,
A few questions.
1) Will EIAS be part of this new company and not be developed under EITG?
2) Will EITG sell Animator on the new company behalf?
3) As this is a partnership, could this be seen similar to how osx supported os 9 while the transition took place and then os9 was canned?
3a) If the is true and EIM2/Tesla becomes a brand new modern code centric platform would there then be a separation from legacy EIAS?
3b) Under the assumption that new developments are modular and both 3rd parties and EIAS partners are still in the picture will they then have to update their code base on the new platform? (Seems platform to a degree is still the old from posts on how QtKit now provided more flexibility licensing wise w/Open Source)
4) Will EITG totally build a system that would render current plugins for EIAS obsolete? By this I refer mainly to the re-investment that may be required for the new platform.
5) Will the roadmap for the new EIM2/Tesla have ready available libraries to build on tools similar to c4d/maya/modo?
A few questions.
1) Will EIAS be part of this new company and not be developed under EITG?
2) Will EITG sell Animator on the new company behalf?
3) As this is a partnership, could this be seen similar to how osx supported os 9 while the transition took place and then os9 was canned?
3a) If the is true and EIM2/Tesla becomes a brand new modern code centric platform would there then be a separation from legacy EIAS?
3b) Under the assumption that new developments are modular and both 3rd parties and EIAS partners are still in the picture will they then have to update their code base on the new platform? (Seems platform to a degree is still the old from posts on how QtKit now provided more flexibility licensing wise w/Open Source)
4) Will EITG totally build a system that would render current plugins for EIAS obsolete? By this I refer mainly to the re-investment that may be required for the new platform.
5) Will the roadmap for the new EIM2/Tesla have ready available libraries to build on tools similar to c4d/maya/modo?
Martin Kay
05-29-2009, 07:22 AM
I think the question of alternative only comes into play from certain points of view. High res (huge res), high poly counts at a very affordable price-point on a basic machine. Simple animation, effortlessly done - rock solid performance and procedurals second to none. Great output quality.
That's fine and the new features of Vs8 sound very good, unfortunately unless you are rendering a large file anyway you still need to render out twice size to get acceptable aliasing. I've experimented with this quite a bit- the adaptive aliasing just doesn't crack it and putting the settings down just gives a fuzzy image. I know EI renders large files and pretty quick, but when it comes to GI you don't really want to be having to render out twice size- there's no advantage to using EI. It appears, at least on the few occasions I've tried, that M Forge doesn't seem to work with GI- is this the case?
I've managed to import mesh into EI quite well from Modo via Silo but adjusting odd bits for smoothing is one hell of a palaver. EI certainly does need a good modeller and currently I can't imagine anyone queuing up to buy it with all the rest of whats available.
I know you're not a c4d fan, but I've managed to render out images large enough to cover the side of a long wheelbase Mercedes Van ;-) Yes c4d is very pricey these days, but EI requires animators to buy all manner of extras and look at all this argy bargy going on. It seems to appear that some of the critical players at EITG are just doing this 'on the side' as it were and with little consideration for their user base, hence the cavalier attitude to meeting release dates...
Martin K
That's fine and the new features of Vs8 sound very good, unfortunately unless you are rendering a large file anyway you still need to render out twice size to get acceptable aliasing. I've experimented with this quite a bit- the adaptive aliasing just doesn't crack it and putting the settings down just gives a fuzzy image. I know EI renders large files and pretty quick, but when it comes to GI you don't really want to be having to render out twice size- there's no advantage to using EI. It appears, at least on the few occasions I've tried, that M Forge doesn't seem to work with GI- is this the case?
I've managed to import mesh into EI quite well from Modo via Silo but adjusting odd bits for smoothing is one hell of a palaver. EI certainly does need a good modeller and currently I can't imagine anyone queuing up to buy it with all the rest of whats available.
I know you're not a c4d fan, but I've managed to render out images large enough to cover the side of a long wheelbase Mercedes Van ;-) Yes c4d is very pricey these days, but EI requires animators to buy all manner of extras and look at all this argy bargy going on. It seems to appear that some of the critical players at EITG are just doing this 'on the side' as it were and with little consideration for their user base, hence the cavalier attitude to meeting release dates...
Martin K
AVTPro
05-29-2009, 09:55 AM
To all parties involved
I'm very dissappointed that Ramjac and Rodeo is not shipping with v.8.
EITG and Ramjac should have found a solution no matter what.
Only reason why I am not irate is because after the EIM defunct
I promised myself I wouldn't let EI pull the rug under me again. (Alias)
I have great faith in Tomas but you guys aren't making anything easier for him.
Only stubborn computer graphics people could be so ego minded.
Someone should have yielded, at least of the sake of the EI faithfuls.
This is ridiculous to let this happen again.
I'm very dissappointed that Ramjac and Rodeo is not shipping with v.8.
EITG and Ramjac should have found a solution no matter what.
Only reason why I am not irate is because after the EIM defunct
I promised myself I wouldn't let EI pull the rug under me again. (Alias)
I have great faith in Tomas but you guys aren't making anything easier for him.
Only stubborn computer graphics people could be so ego minded.
Someone should have yielded, at least of the sake of the EI faithfuls.
This is ridiculous to let this happen again.
halfworld
05-29-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm sorry to say this Alonzo, but you seriously misunderstand the situation. Ramjac won't work with EITG anymore, but they might work with this new company, so, the exact opposite of what you said is true.
Ian
Ian
Frankg
05-29-2009, 10:27 AM
Hi Ian,
you're the only one who tries to clear up the things. Thank you for this.
Ramjac's "press release" was more confusing than clearing anything.
After rereading what Jens has written it sounds to me the ramjac-plugins will be available in a new constellation. But the first impression was ramjac will withdraw this part of their business.
As I stated before. I love facts. As a customer I don't want to be involved in those discussions not even passive and not on this board. This ist not very professional. There should be a press release from EITG and ramjac then the things are done and no confusing half-detailed misunderstanding discussions in the public.
Seems that there are at least two big egos who should take some time to think what really is the problem and how it could be solved.
Regards
Frankg
you're the only one who tries to clear up the things. Thank you for this.
Ramjac's "press release" was more confusing than clearing anything.
After rereading what Jens has written it sounds to me the ramjac-plugins will be available in a new constellation. But the first impression was ramjac will withdraw this part of their business.
As I stated before. I love facts. As a customer I don't want to be involved in those discussions not even passive and not on this board. This ist not very professional. There should be a press release from EITG and ramjac then the things are done and no confusing half-detailed misunderstanding discussions in the public.
Seems that there are at least two big egos who should take some time to think what really is the problem and how it could be solved.
Regards
Frankg
halfworld
05-29-2009, 10:29 AM
I agree, I think I've already mentioned that there will be an announcement from the new company in the near future (it's currently being revised for clarity).
Thanks for your patients, this is a forward step and it frees up some EITG resources to invest in their new lineup.
Best,
Ian
Thanks for your patients, this is a forward step and it frees up some EITG resources to invest in their new lineup.
Best,
Ian
PaulS2
05-29-2009, 02:10 PM
That's fine and the new features of Vs8 sound very good, unfortunately unless you are rendering a large file anyway you still need to render out twice size to get acceptable aliasing. I've experimented with this quite a bit- the adaptive aliasing just doesn't crack it and putting the settings down just gives a fuzzy image. I know EI renders large files and pretty quick, but when it comes to GI you don't really want to be having to render out twice size- there's no advantage to using EI. It appears, at least on the few occasions I've tried, that M Forge doesn't seem to work with GI- is this the case?
I've managed to import mesh into EI quite well from Modo via Silo but adjusting odd bits for smoothing is one hell of a palaver. EI certainly does need a good modeller and currently I can't imagine anyone queuing up to buy it with all the rest of whats available.
I know you're not a c4d fan, but I've managed to render out images large enough to cover the side of a long wheelbase Mercedes Van ;-) Yes c4d is very pricey these days, but EI requires animators to buy all manner of extras and look at all this argy bargy going on. It seems to appear that some of the critical players at EITG are just doing this 'on the side' as it were and with little consideration for their user base, hence the cavalier attitude to meeting release dates...
Martin K
Hey Martin,
I have to completely disagree on the AA.....especially at hi-res for print. I always use over-sampling. Hi-res 3D always looks too clean and perfect so I use a softer AA...it still prints sharp and accurate but not as 'perfect' as Adaptive. I use Adaptive at lower res and find it acceptable. I've never had to double up res on a commercial project.
I've tried to be a fan of C4D and it might end up being the alternative...I much prefer Max but it's just too pricey to feel like a program I want to re-invest in. C4D in the basic tool set hasn't evolved at all in the last many years. It's nurbs are the same as they always were and their spline tools haven't changed much. It's imports from Rhino always have some glitch which needs to be fixed. It renders look fake and plastic without much work.....C4D is a general app which claims to have most everything to offer but it's depth is so lacking....the quality of the tools is just enough to get an ok job done....to me there is nothing inspiring in regards the toolset. Nothing new, nothing innovative...just a mediocre copy of other's hard work. Even if they copied but copied the great tools from other's and added a new twist or refinement...but I've never seen that...it's mostly a watered down copy. C4D has always felt under-developed. Lots of good ideas but never taken to a real robust level.
And all of this 'activity' at EI?....this has been going on for years. This latest development isn't anything new - I don't think there should be any surprise. EI has always had this sort of fluid and unpredictable ownership and development. I can't think of a time when it hasn't.
A company in motion like this can certainly shake confidence though.
I've managed to import mesh into EI quite well from Modo via Silo but adjusting odd bits for smoothing is one hell of a palaver. EI certainly does need a good modeller and currently I can't imagine anyone queuing up to buy it with all the rest of whats available.
I know you're not a c4d fan, but I've managed to render out images large enough to cover the side of a long wheelbase Mercedes Van ;-) Yes c4d is very pricey these days, but EI requires animators to buy all manner of extras and look at all this argy bargy going on. It seems to appear that some of the critical players at EITG are just doing this 'on the side' as it were and with little consideration for their user base, hence the cavalier attitude to meeting release dates...
Martin K
Hey Martin,
I have to completely disagree on the AA.....especially at hi-res for print. I always use over-sampling. Hi-res 3D always looks too clean and perfect so I use a softer AA...it still prints sharp and accurate but not as 'perfect' as Adaptive. I use Adaptive at lower res and find it acceptable. I've never had to double up res on a commercial project.
I've tried to be a fan of C4D and it might end up being the alternative...I much prefer Max but it's just too pricey to feel like a program I want to re-invest in. C4D in the basic tool set hasn't evolved at all in the last many years. It's nurbs are the same as they always were and their spline tools haven't changed much. It's imports from Rhino always have some glitch which needs to be fixed. It renders look fake and plastic without much work.....C4D is a general app which claims to have most everything to offer but it's depth is so lacking....the quality of the tools is just enough to get an ok job done....to me there is nothing inspiring in regards the toolset. Nothing new, nothing innovative...just a mediocre copy of other's hard work. Even if they copied but copied the great tools from other's and added a new twist or refinement...but I've never seen that...it's mostly a watered down copy. C4D has always felt under-developed. Lots of good ideas but never taken to a real robust level.
And all of this 'activity' at EI?....this has been going on for years. This latest development isn't anything new - I don't think there should be any surprise. EI has always had this sort of fluid and unpredictable ownership and development. I can't think of a time when it hasn't.
A company in motion like this can certainly shake confidence though.
Frankg
05-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Hi Paul,
I absolutely agree your position concerning C4D. The only thing which was seriously changed was the price-level.
For architects, designers and others who need good render quality EIAS is a good choice.
Sadly nobody knows.
Regards
Frankg
I absolutely agree your position concerning C4D. The only thing which was seriously changed was the price-level.
For architects, designers and others who need good render quality EIAS is a good choice.
Sadly nobody knows.
Regards
Frankg
Martin Kay
05-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Hey Martin,
I have to completely disagree on the AA.....especially at hi-res for print. I always use over-sampling. Hi-res 3D always looks too clean and perfect so I use a softer AA...it still prints sharp and accurate but not as 'perfect' as Adaptive. I use Adaptive at lower res and find it acceptable. I've never had to double up res on a commercial project.
I've tried to be a fan of C4D and it might end up being the alternative...I much prefer Max but it's just too pricey to feel like a program I want to re-invest in. C4D in the basic tool set hasn't evolved at all in the last many years. It's nurbs are the same as they always were and their spline tools haven't changed much. It's imports from Rhino always have some glitch which needs to be fixed. It renders look fake and plastic without much work.....C4D is a general app which claims to have most everything to offer but it's depth is so lacking....the quality of the tools is just enough to get an ok job done....to me there is nothing inspiring in regards the toolset. Nothing new, nothing innovative...just a mediocre copy of other's hard work. Even if they copied but copied the great tools from other's and added a new twist or refinement...but I've never seen that...it's mostly a watered down copy. C4D has always felt under-developed. Lots of good ideas but never taken to a real robust level.
And all of this 'activity' at EI?....this has been going on for years. This latest development isn't anything new - I don't think there should be any surprise. EI has always had this sort of fluid and unpredictable ownership and development. I can't think of a time when it hasn't.
A company in motion like this can certainly shake confidence though.
Hi Paul, I remember you saying you doubled up the res on some of your images....and I remember you advising me to use adaptive at 250ish to 255.... Lol!...to get a sharp image.
I can't argue with your verdict on c4d and certainly it's expensive and largely unchanged from years ago apart from the new speedy GI and things I never use.
I'll probably take a sneak peek at vs 8...when it arrives ...
Martin K
I have to completely disagree on the AA.....especially at hi-res for print. I always use over-sampling. Hi-res 3D always looks too clean and perfect so I use a softer AA...it still prints sharp and accurate but not as 'perfect' as Adaptive. I use Adaptive at lower res and find it acceptable. I've never had to double up res on a commercial project.
I've tried to be a fan of C4D and it might end up being the alternative...I much prefer Max but it's just too pricey to feel like a program I want to re-invest in. C4D in the basic tool set hasn't evolved at all in the last many years. It's nurbs are the same as they always were and their spline tools haven't changed much. It's imports from Rhino always have some glitch which needs to be fixed. It renders look fake and plastic without much work.....C4D is a general app which claims to have most everything to offer but it's depth is so lacking....the quality of the tools is just enough to get an ok job done....to me there is nothing inspiring in regards the toolset. Nothing new, nothing innovative...just a mediocre copy of other's hard work. Even if they copied but copied the great tools from other's and added a new twist or refinement...but I've never seen that...it's mostly a watered down copy. C4D has always felt under-developed. Lots of good ideas but never taken to a real robust level.
And all of this 'activity' at EI?....this has been going on for years. This latest development isn't anything new - I don't think there should be any surprise. EI has always had this sort of fluid and unpredictable ownership and development. I can't think of a time when it hasn't.
A company in motion like this can certainly shake confidence though.
Hi Paul, I remember you saying you doubled up the res on some of your images....and I remember you advising me to use adaptive at 250ish to 255.... Lol!...to get a sharp image.
I can't argue with your verdict on c4d and certainly it's expensive and largely unchanged from years ago apart from the new speedy GI and things I never use.
I'll probably take a sneak peek at vs 8...when it arrives ...
Martin K
PaulS2
05-29-2009, 04:55 PM
Hi Paul, I remember you saying you doubled up the res on some of your images....and I remember you advising me to use adaptive at 250ish to 255.... Lol!...to get a sharp image.
I can't argue with your verdict on c4d and certainly it's expensive and largely unchanged from years ago apart from the new speedy GI and things I never use.
I'll probably take a sneak peek at vs 8...when it arrives ...
Martin K
When I was beta testing the Raytracer, years ago, I would double up and sometimes quad up the res. I haven't has need to do anything like that for years and years. Pushing adaptive that high can get very crisp images. I usually up the sampling and AA level though. Very seldom do I need to do that though.
If the developers for C4D gave their whole toolset a good work-over....made everything cutting edge or even just on par with industry standards then C4D would be a good choice for me for some work. I still use V7.3 with Jenna for some stuff. I don't understand why their user-base puts up with some of the sub-standard tools?
I can't argue with your verdict on c4d and certainly it's expensive and largely unchanged from years ago apart from the new speedy GI and things I never use.
I'll probably take a sneak peek at vs 8...when it arrives ...
Martin K
When I was beta testing the Raytracer, years ago, I would double up and sometimes quad up the res. I haven't has need to do anything like that for years and years. Pushing adaptive that high can get very crisp images. I usually up the sampling and AA level though. Very seldom do I need to do that though.
If the developers for C4D gave their whole toolset a good work-over....made everything cutting edge or even just on par with industry standards then C4D would be a good choice for me for some work. I still use V7.3 with Jenna for some stuff. I don't understand why their user-base puts up with some of the sub-standard tools?
plsyvjeucxfw
05-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Sorry Paul but I couldn't resist.
I don't understand why their user-base puts up with some of the sub-standard tools?
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
I don't understand why their user-base puts up with some of the sub-standard tools?
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
PaulS2
05-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Hi Paul,
I absolutely agree your position concerning C4D. The only thing which was seriously changed was the price-level.
For architects, designers and others who need good render quality EIAS is a good choice.
Sadly nobody knows.
Regards
Frankg
Hi Frank,
When I used C4D I tried to express my need for more robust tools - I gave up as all I got back was that there wasn't a problem for most users. Just defensiveness.
EI is a great choice for some work, definitely...very fast and always looks good.
I absolutely agree your position concerning C4D. The only thing which was seriously changed was the price-level.
For architects, designers and others who need good render quality EIAS is a good choice.
Sadly nobody knows.
Regards
Frankg
Hi Frank,
When I used C4D I tried to express my need for more robust tools - I gave up as all I got back was that there wasn't a problem for most users. Just defensiveness.
EI is a great choice for some work, definitely...very fast and always looks good.
PaulS2
05-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Sorry Paul but I couldn't resist.
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
LOL! That's funny...those are completely non-issues for me. Though if implemented into EI, I'm sure it would add tremendously to the workflow.
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
LOL! That's funny...those are completely non-issues for me. Though if implemented into EI, I'm sure it would add tremendously to the workflow.
scott8933
05-29-2009, 06:08 PM
That's not so much an advantage of C4D but a shortfalling of EI. I mean - what program doesn't offer those features. Lightwave has from the beginning (I've always thought of it as their basic working paradigm actually) but the lack of those features has never kept me from EI despite access to and knowledge of LW, C4D, and Studio Max. Time after time, EI ends up the app I finish something in, even after starting in something else thinking "okay, this job could really benefit from xxx feature of some other program."
And on the topic of Cinema, lets not forget their pyramid-scheme pricing structure. My favorite part is the splash screen when you launch, reminding you that you haven't bought six or seven extra "modules" - all of which add up to a not-so-trivial amount of cash, especially when they seem to come out with updates twice a year now.
All that said - I'm finding this latest set of developments pretty confidence-shaking. I've stuck it out with EI since almost the beginning, through the first round of user-angering price drops ($8500 to $2500 overnight), the various company moves and ownership changes, all the drama that accompanies every update (insert release-date joke here).
But this last one may be the final straw. The company is now owned by who? And will be developed by...uh... huh? And suddenly Ramjac is out of the picture... or maybe they aren't? The best plugin developers have either left completely (Konkeptoine), moved on to other things (Northern Lights), or died from internal conflicts and infighting (Paralumino).
Any longtime EI user needs to be long on patience, but this big ball 'o drama is just too much nonsense to deal with.
Sorry Paul but I couldn't resist.
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
And on the topic of Cinema, lets not forget their pyramid-scheme pricing structure. My favorite part is the splash screen when you launch, reminding you that you haven't bought six or seven extra "modules" - all of which add up to a not-so-trivial amount of cash, especially when they seem to come out with updates twice a year now.
All that said - I'm finding this latest set of developments pretty confidence-shaking. I've stuck it out with EI since almost the beginning, through the first round of user-angering price drops ($8500 to $2500 overnight), the various company moves and ownership changes, all the drama that accompanies every update (insert release-date joke here).
But this last one may be the final straw. The company is now owned by who? And will be developed by...uh... huh? And suddenly Ramjac is out of the picture... or maybe they aren't? The best plugin developers have either left completely (Konkeptoine), moved on to other things (Northern Lights), or died from internal conflicts and infighting (Paralumino).
Any longtime EI user needs to be long on patience, but this big ball 'o drama is just too much nonsense to deal with.
Sorry Paul but I couldn't resist.
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
AVTPro
05-29-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm sorry to say this Alonzo, but you seriously misunderstand the situation. Ramjac won't work with EITG anymore, but they might work with this new company, so, the exact opposite of what you said is true.
Ian
Hey Ian,
Just so I am clear. True or false? v8 will not have a dynamic system or a scripting system when it ships?
If so, this needs to be rectified immediately and at "all" costs.
My comment was to the this point only. Animator v8 has to have dynamic and scripting system.
Every 3D animation package worth it's salt does.
Ian
Hey Ian,
Just so I am clear. True or false? v8 will not have a dynamic system or a scripting system when it ships?
If so, this needs to be rectified immediately and at "all" costs.
My comment was to the this point only. Animator v8 has to have dynamic and scripting system.
Every 3D animation package worth it's salt does.
3DArtZ
05-29-2009, 10:57 PM
Hey Ian,
Just so I am clear. True or false? v8 will not have a dynamic system or a scripting system when it ships?
If so, this needs to be rectified immediately and at "all" costs.
My comment was to the this point only. Animator v8 has to have dynamic and scripting system.
Every 3D animation package worth it's salt does.
Word up! this shouldnt be too difficult to get a scripting system going. I know how much programmes hate it when artist type folks say that but, you got to have it in there.
Just so I am clear. True or false? v8 will not have a dynamic system or a scripting system when it ships?
If so, this needs to be rectified immediately and at "all" costs.
My comment was to the this point only. Animator v8 has to have dynamic and scripting system.
Every 3D animation package worth it's salt does.
Word up! this shouldnt be too difficult to get a scripting system going. I know how much programmes hate it when artist type folks say that but, you got to have it in there.
juanxer
05-29-2009, 11:42 PM
I hope the official announcement, once it arrives, goes beyond a simple half a page press release and explains the new direction with some detailing. Also, if v.9 is in the works already, knowing what its focus will be would be nice.
A question: will this alter those EIAS+Tesla bundling plans and possible discounts?
A question: will this alter those EIAS+Tesla bundling plans and possible discounts?
AVTPro
05-29-2009, 11:49 PM
Nobody got back to me about this urgent concern?
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
Vizfizz
05-30-2009, 12:08 AM
Had a long talk with Brad this afternoon. He's cleared me to talk about a few details. Stay tuned.
ReginaldThomasJr
05-30-2009, 12:46 AM
Nobody got back to me about this urgent concern?
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
Alonzo, I think (but I'm not entirely sure) if you have XP from a previous version of EIAS, you can use it with the latest version of XP (I think you can load it somehow). Scripting is so rudimentary to the success of a program like this at this stage of the game (so are physics).
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
Alonzo, I think (but I'm not entirely sure) if you have XP from a previous version of EIAS, you can use it with the latest version of XP (I think you can load it somehow). Scripting is so rudimentary to the success of a program like this at this stage of the game (so are physics).
juanxer
05-30-2009, 02:46 AM
We've been told so by Ian and others: it's simply a matter of moving or copying the Xp and Rodeo files from v.7's sockets folder to v.8's one.
markalanthomas
05-30-2009, 02:58 AM
UV mapping is the worst joke ever perpetrated on 3D users. It's a solution that's worse than the problem. And sadly, most 3D apps — being engineer-centric — are like this.
ReginaldThomasJr
05-30-2009, 03:18 AM
UV mapping is the worst joke ever perpetrated on 3D users. It's a solution that's worse than the problem. And sadly, most 3D apps — being engineer-centric — are like this.
Finally, someone agrees with my about UV mapping. It's so awful and counter intuitive. The person who figures out how to make it completely natural (taking away nothing from Mudbox and Zbrush), will be quite wealthy.
Finally, someone agrees with my about UV mapping. It's so awful and counter intuitive. The person who figures out how to make it completely natural (taking away nothing from Mudbox and Zbrush), will be quite wealthy.
PaulS2
05-30-2009, 03:26 AM
I also agree....completely unintuative. Unfortunately, I think UV mapping is here to stay for some time. It's too entrenched in 3D apps. An approach, the furthest away from an artistic solution.
Veehoy
05-30-2009, 08:11 AM
Kind of OT complaining about UVmapping? It´s not like we can utilize them fully in EIAS yet, is it?
halfworld
05-30-2009, 08:40 AM
EIAS can see and use UVs, it just doesn't give you access to them (it has no UV editor ,because, it's not a modeller).
There is no solution other then to do UV mapping (which I agree is totally un-intuative) in your modelling program.
Thankfully, EIs projection mapping is really good which means that Visualisers generally need to do very little UVing.
Ian
There is no solution other then to do UV mapping (which I agree is totally un-intuative) in your modelling program.
Thankfully, EIs projection mapping is really good which means that Visualisers generally need to do very little UVing.
Ian
Veehoy
05-30-2009, 09:37 AM
I am talking multiple uv-maps here......probably should have underlined the word "fully" :)
halfworld
05-30-2009, 09:46 AM
Oh, haha :)
Yes, this is a problem with the .fact file format I believe, if support for multiple UV maps is added, then every fact exporter/importer will instantly be broken...
The solution here is to fully support another file format, something that is being looked at very closely.
Ian
Yes, this is a problem with the .fact file format I believe, if support for multiple UV maps is added, then every fact exporter/importer will instantly be broken...
The solution here is to fully support another file format, something that is being looked at very closely.
Ian
juanxer
05-30-2009, 10:22 AM
As there are not that many apps supporting FACT I/O, perhaps producing a FACT v.2 wouldn't be that disrupting. Of course, getting to support any other popular format natively would be a huge win, as it would make Animator and Camera instantly... er... "pipeliney".
That the issue is being studied is a good sign in general: up to now it looked like some sort of taboo thing. Of course, if FACT happens to be the key to Camera's speed, it complicates matters a lot.
Seeing how we all are defaulting to bullet-pointing rants and The Needs OF The App :) , I guess we have exhausted the subject matter until Ian can provide us with further information.
That the issue is being studied is a good sign in general: up to now it looked like some sort of taboo thing. Of course, if FACT happens to be the key to Camera's speed, it complicates matters a lot.
Seeing how we all are defaulting to bullet-pointing rants and The Needs OF The App :) , I guess we have exhausted the subject matter until Ian can provide us with further information.
cjberg
05-30-2009, 01:48 PM
As there are not that many apps supporting FACT I/O, perhaps producing a FACT v.2 wouldn't be that disrupting. Of course, getting to support any other popular format natively would be a huge win, as it would make Animator and Camera instantly... er... "pipeliney".
That the issue is being studied is a good sign in general: up to now it looked like some sort of taboo thing. Of course, if FACT happens to be the key to Camera's speed, it complicates matters a lot.
Seeing how we all are defaulting to bullet-pointing rants and The Needs OF The App :) , I guess we have exhausted the subject matter until Ian can provide us with further information.
quick thought... the underpinning of EIAS throughout is based on fact, merely supporting a separate format from my pov is a huge undertaking... from the plug-in architecture to rendering. Would mean, once again, every plug would be incompatible... unless they have a brilliant solution.
Cj
That the issue is being studied is a good sign in general: up to now it looked like some sort of taboo thing. Of course, if FACT happens to be the key to Camera's speed, it complicates matters a lot.
Seeing how we all are defaulting to bullet-pointing rants and The Needs OF The App :) , I guess we have exhausted the subject matter until Ian can provide us with further information.
quick thought... the underpinning of EIAS throughout is based on fact, merely supporting a separate format from my pov is a huge undertaking... from the plug-in architecture to rendering. Would mean, once again, every plug would be incompatible... unless they have a brilliant solution.
Cj
iKKe
05-30-2009, 07:51 PM
Nobody got back to me about this urgent concern?
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
I couldn't agree more!
Without XP, EIAS isn't very useful to me.
Using the V7 version of XP in V8, is temporary solution
Cheers
Hans
BTW: Maybe I missed some essential info on the UV discussion that hijacked this thread.
UV mapping is part of the modeling process, and from what I know, UV mapping is a very straightforward process, for most objects it mimics reality. With every iteration of 'the modelers', UV mapping tools are getting better (I only wish it would have a higher priority, guess its not sexy enough).
Furthermore, the fact file format has always been able to handle multiple UV maps!
The only limitation is that a vertex can't be present in multiple UV Maps, although I am not sure this is a limitation in Animator, or in the fact file format.
So you can use multiple UV maps in a fact file, just not multiple UV maps per mesh, and that's a problem one could find a workaround for.
So I am correct? XP is not shipping with EIAS v8.
Now that I got weight maps again for characters, I can't script fingers?
Maybe I don't understand the ins and outs of the company's new arrangements but I don't think the results of not having this essential functionality can be confused.
XP is mandatory to EIAS v8's success. Shipping without it should have not been an option.
I know Jens and Patrick can't "Possibly" want that. I know them "way" better than that.
I couldn't agree more!
Without XP, EIAS isn't very useful to me.
Using the V7 version of XP in V8, is temporary solution
Cheers
Hans
BTW: Maybe I missed some essential info on the UV discussion that hijacked this thread.
UV mapping is part of the modeling process, and from what I know, UV mapping is a very straightforward process, for most objects it mimics reality. With every iteration of 'the modelers', UV mapping tools are getting better (I only wish it would have a higher priority, guess its not sexy enough).
Furthermore, the fact file format has always been able to handle multiple UV maps!
The only limitation is that a vertex can't be present in multiple UV Maps, although I am not sure this is a limitation in Animator, or in the fact file format.
So you can use multiple UV maps in a fact file, just not multiple UV maps per mesh, and that's a problem one could find a workaround for.
cjberg
05-30-2009, 08:35 PM
I would think the announcement to follow from the new group should add some clarity to all this...
Veehoy
05-30-2009, 08:40 PM
So you can use multiple UV maps in a fact file, just not multiple UV maps per mesh, and that's a problem one could find a workaround for.You could probably find a workaround for most obstacles. The point is, in an application that relies so much on file import as EIAS, you should not have to.
markalanthomas
05-30-2009, 08:52 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread with my complaint about UV mapping. I was responding to this comment:
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
I don't happen to consider EI's lack of an interface for creating or modifying UV mapping to be a fault, so I get annoyed when people point it out. In every app I have used, UV mapping is the worst sort of unwieldy hack. The tools are all substandard, without exception, because they're built on top of a brute force solution to a problem nobody really put any effort into solving. I don't want this kind of crap in EI. They should come up with something better, something brain dead simple which works every time with no fuss.
Sadly the myth of competition being the answer to progress and innovation has really only resulted in every app being equally bad in inexplicably arbitrary ways.
You mean like not being able to select vertices, edges, and faces? Or doing U.V. Mapping? Or being able to scale key frames effectively? Or make morph targets?
Yeah, why would any user base put up with some of those substandard tools? LOL!
I don't happen to consider EI's lack of an interface for creating or modifying UV mapping to be a fault, so I get annoyed when people point it out. In every app I have used, UV mapping is the worst sort of unwieldy hack. The tools are all substandard, without exception, because they're built on top of a brute force solution to a problem nobody really put any effort into solving. I don't want this kind of crap in EI. They should come up with something better, something brain dead simple which works every time with no fuss.
Sadly the myth of competition being the answer to progress and innovation has really only resulted in every app being equally bad in inexplicably arbitrary ways.
markalanthomas
05-30-2009, 08:53 PM
Agreed. Workarounds are BS. I won't use them. If an app doesn't work properly, I wander off and sketch a tree instead.
ReginaldThomasJr
05-30-2009, 08:55 PM
You could probably find a workaround for most obstacles. The point is, in an application that relies so much on file import as EIAS, you should not have to.
Well said; EIAS should probably print that out, frame it and hang it all over the office.
Well said; EIAS should probably print that out, frame it and hang it all over the office.
iKKe
05-30-2009, 10:31 PM
You could probably find a workaround for most obstacles. The point is, in an application that relies so much on file import as EIAS, you should not have to.
LOL
Now serious, Please give me an example of where you would need different UV maps for one object?!
Agreed. Workarounds are BS. I won't use them. If an app doesn't work properly, I wander off and sketch a tree instead.
You probable have sketched a lot of trees, as 3D in general is one big workaround!
Cheers
Hans
LOL
Now serious, Please give me an example of where you would need different UV maps for one object?!
Agreed. Workarounds are BS. I won't use them. If an app doesn't work properly, I wander off and sketch a tree instead.
You probable have sketched a lot of trees, as 3D in general is one big workaround!
Cheers
Hans
Veehoy
05-30-2009, 10:48 PM
Now serious, Please give me an example of where you would need different UV maps for one object?!
Poser/Daz models. Was that a good enough example for you?
Poser/Daz models. Was that a good enough example for you?
iKKe
05-30-2009, 10:54 PM
Poser/Daz models. Was that a good enough example for you?
No, these work just fine, they don't have vertices present in multiple UV maps.
No, these work just fine, they don't have vertices present in multiple UV maps.
Veehoy
05-30-2009, 11:26 PM
Poser/Daz models (Some of them, not all) have multiple uv spaces, which doesn´t work in EIAS.
Edit: Not shure we´re on the same page here.Or same book for that matter.
Edit: Not shure we´re on the same page here.Or same book for that matter.
markalanthomas
05-31-2009, 06:42 AM
You probable have sketched a lot of trees, as 3D in general is one big workaround!
I have. Plus an embarrassing number of trash cans.
I have. Plus an embarrassing number of trash cans.
Veehoy
05-31-2009, 08:27 AM
After seeing your website I felt a sudden urge to go out and do some tree and trash can sketching myself :thumbsup:
markalanthomas
05-31-2009, 08:31 AM
Ha ha, thanks.
cjberg
05-31-2009, 03:38 PM
LOL
Now serious, Please give me an example of where you would need different UV maps for one object?!
Hans
Client provided models... happens constantly
Now serious, Please give me an example of where you would need different UV maps for one object?!
Hans
Client provided models... happens constantly
halfworld
06-01-2009, 01:24 PM
Yeah multiple UVs are very common in character circles, the only way to get around it currently is to split the UV maps into separate model groups, O2F does this automatically, but obviously, we need another solution here.
Best,
Ian
Best,
Ian
cjberg
06-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Yeah multiple UVs are very common in character circles, the only way to get around it currently is to split the UV maps into separate model groups, O2F does this automatically, but obviously, we need another solution here.
Best,
Ian
I would like to also point out, O2F is not included with EI... it is an extra cost for a solution.
Cj
Best,
Ian
I would like to also point out, O2F is not included with EI... it is an extra cost for a solution.
Cj
halfworld
06-01-2009, 02:19 PM
Wupsy daisy.
Vizfizz
06-01-2009, 03:08 PM
Well one interesting point to make is with the evolution of this "new" company, a number of third party solutions may finally find their way into Animator. Realistically, the Igors could integrate any number of their plugins into Animator and Ramjac could establish a relationship with them too. If anything, that's probably the fastest way to release a v8.5 or v9 of the program.
ReginaldThomasJr
06-01-2009, 03:21 PM
I would like to also point out, O2F is not included with EI... it is an extra cost for a solution.
Cj
Did O2F work with PCs?
Cj
Did O2F work with PCs?
ReginaldThomasJr
06-01-2009, 03:23 PM
Well one interesting point to make is with the evolution of this "new" company, a number of third party solutions may finally find their way into Animator. Realistically, the Igors could integrate any number of their plugins into Animator and Ramjac could establish a relationship with them too. If anything, that's probably the fastest way to release a v8.5 or v9 of the program.
From your mouth to..., well, whom ever's ears!
From your mouth to..., well, whom ever's ears!
Jens C. Möller
06-01-2009, 04:04 PM
It currently isn't available at all...
We just have to wait and see...
Ian
This is not correct. Anyone who wants or needs anything around ramjac Software can simply send us an email.
What we do not have at this moment is a fancy webshop...
Jens
We just have to wait and see...
Ian
This is not correct. Anyone who wants or needs anything around ramjac Software can simply send us an email.
What we do not have at this moment is a fancy webshop...
Jens
halfworld
06-01-2009, 04:07 PM
Oops, my bad, I'll edit the post.
Sorry Jens.
Sorry Jens.
Jens C. Möller
06-01-2009, 04:10 PM
No problem, Ian. The situation is somehow "murky"... ;)
Jens
Jens
Vizfizz
06-01-2009, 05:09 PM
This is not correct. Anyone who wants or needs anything around ramjac Software can simply send us an email.
What we do not have at this moment is a fancy webshop...
Jens
Jens...I don't know what you're plans are for Ramjac, but we should talk.
What we do not have at this moment is a fancy webshop...
Jens
Jens...I don't know what you're plans are for Ramjac, but we should talk.
ediris
06-02-2009, 02:25 PM
Ok guys why did this happened again, first they release EIAS v8, when Tesla was about to be done and now they are making a new company this has become a soap opera.
cjberg
06-02-2009, 02:39 PM
Ok guys why did this happened again, first they release EIAS v8, when Tesla was about to be done and now they are making a new company this has become a soap opera.
more likely, they have created a company to focus solely on EIAS and not Tesla/EIAS/etc...
so, instead of seeing this as a bad thing, I see opportunities for EIAS
more likely, they have created a company to focus solely on EIAS and not Tesla/EIAS/etc...
so, instead of seeing this as a bad thing, I see opportunities for EIAS
Gigayoda
06-02-2009, 02:42 PM
If my interpretation is correct.
Brad owns EIAS
Brad and (his) developers are (NOT) working on EIAS but building a new tool EIM2(Tesla)
Brad has allowed (team X) to build on legacy EIAS as a partnership.
Partnership bridges the gap between third party developers and users of EIAS
M.O. Partnership will profit both parties while Brad and his team build a new solution. I've seen this happen with other companies.
My concern or curiosity is 2 fold. 1) Will EI cease to exist once new code and programing is finished? 2) Will the "new" code be a modernized version of EIAS/EIM?, since brad owns the rights to EIAS he can do with the code and development of it as he pleases.
My worries are in part for the current EI developers and 3rd party guys. Will they cease to exit should EITG pull the plug on legacy EIAS? I call it legacy since I've been reading that the code is outdated and only older developers know the ins and outs (hard to code for new blood coming in)
This from a user stand point gives us EIAS that will evolve in good hands. And get stronger while the other developments take shape. There will be a point that the cord should be severed unless these 2 companies live symbiotically.
Brad owns EIAS
Brad and (his) developers are (NOT) working on EIAS but building a new tool EIM2(Tesla)
Brad has allowed (team X) to build on legacy EIAS as a partnership.
Partnership bridges the gap between third party developers and users of EIAS
M.O. Partnership will profit both parties while Brad and his team build a new solution. I've seen this happen with other companies.
My concern or curiosity is 2 fold. 1) Will EI cease to exist once new code and programing is finished? 2) Will the "new" code be a modernized version of EIAS/EIM?, since brad owns the rights to EIAS he can do with the code and development of it as he pleases.
My worries are in part for the current EI developers and 3rd party guys. Will they cease to exit should EITG pull the plug on legacy EIAS? I call it legacy since I've been reading that the code is outdated and only older developers know the ins and outs (hard to code for new blood coming in)
This from a user stand point gives us EIAS that will evolve in good hands. And get stronger while the other developments take shape. There will be a point that the cord should be severed unless these 2 companies live symbiotically.
ediris
06-02-2009, 02:47 PM
CJ i cant say is a good neither a bad thing for EIAS, the Igors not having time to include a Mesh or creating anything relevant and drastic just focusing on rendering doesnt make any sense to me. We still need to find magic ways to bring models into Animator.
Animator doesn't understand vertices and that seems a bigger problem than what anybody can think.Not being able to read .mdd files seems a little bit odd.
But there must be other ways to animate with the Gnome project the Igors were creating at one point.
Animator doesn't understand vertices and that seems a bigger problem than what anybody can think.Not being able to read .mdd files seems a little bit odd.
But there must be other ways to animate with the Gnome project the Igors were creating at one point.
Vizfizz
06-02-2009, 04:54 PM
Hey Wilson and Edgard,
I've been talking to Brad and I plan to post some answers to all of this as soon as I get the green light. Brad, the Igors, and Tomas are still hammering things out. Everyone plans a press release soon.
From the preliminary negotiations, it sounds pretty fair. I think it will open up a number of positive possibilities.
I've been talking to Brad and I plan to post some answers to all of this as soon as I get the green light. Brad, the Igors, and Tomas are still hammering things out. Everyone plans a press release soon.
From the preliminary negotiations, it sounds pretty fair. I think it will open up a number of positive possibilities.
futagoza
06-02-2009, 05:46 PM
more likely, they have created a company to focus solely on EIAS and not Tesla/EIAS/etc...
so, instead of seeing this as a bad thing, I see opportunities for EIAS
Do you really have to create another company to do that? I don´t think that this is under normal circumstances nessesary. My believe is it has something to do with cutting costs for a not profitable product while making all involved parties somewhat happy (payment wise). Like giving the involved parties equally pieces of the cake and then have hopefully freedom.
But of course i can be totally wrong!?
Anyways, good luck and much success for all involved parties!
Regards
Stefan
so, instead of seeing this as a bad thing, I see opportunities for EIAS
Do you really have to create another company to do that? I don´t think that this is under normal circumstances nessesary. My believe is it has something to do with cutting costs for a not profitable product while making all involved parties somewhat happy (payment wise). Like giving the involved parties equally pieces of the cake and then have hopefully freedom.
But of course i can be totally wrong!?
Anyways, good luck and much success for all involved parties!
Regards
Stefan
plsyvjeucxfw
06-02-2009, 07:04 PM
Or a case of certain parties having the keys and steering wheel (thus controlling the direction of the car) while the owner tries to give direction from the back seat.
The owner then decides to start building a new car (and gain back some control over it's direction).
The group in the front seat, seeing the writing on the wall, starts feeling a bit cut off, left out, and so they start yanking chains, making things difficult for the owner.
So the owner decides to give up the old car, to focus on building his new car.
If both parties are able to hire more mechanics to help them, then either car might advance quicker, or possibly expand into more markets.
As for us poor users, we're left without a clue as to the REAL reasons behind this, just a lot of speculation.
The owner then decides to start building a new car (and gain back some control over it's direction).
The group in the front seat, seeing the writing on the wall, starts feeling a bit cut off, left out, and so they start yanking chains, making things difficult for the owner.
So the owner decides to give up the old car, to focus on building his new car.
If both parties are able to hire more mechanics to help them, then either car might advance quicker, or possibly expand into more markets.
As for us poor users, we're left without a clue as to the REAL reasons behind this, just a lot of speculation.
mike33
06-02-2009, 07:26 PM
Hey Wilson and Edgard,
I've been talking to Brad and I plan to post some answers to all of this as soon as I get the green light. Brad, the Igors, and Tomas are still hammering things out. Everyone plans a press release soon.
From the preliminary negotiations, it sounds pretty fair. I think it will open up a number of positive possibilities.
Please make the press release's crystal clear... and also please wait until the "eye's" are dotted and the "Tee's" are crossed and all the legal papers are signed. This way it's a done deal and we're not stuck in the mist of negotiations and fine print issues, etc, etc...
to much conjecture and misunderstandings in public isn't going to help anyone.
Good luck...
Mike
I've been talking to Brad and I plan to post some answers to all of this as soon as I get the green light. Brad, the Igors, and Tomas are still hammering things out. Everyone plans a press release soon.
From the preliminary negotiations, it sounds pretty fair. I think it will open up a number of positive possibilities.
Please make the press release's crystal clear... and also please wait until the "eye's" are dotted and the "Tee's" are crossed and all the legal papers are signed. This way it's a done deal and we're not stuck in the mist of negotiations and fine print issues, etc, etc...
to much conjecture and misunderstandings in public isn't going to help anyone.
Good luck...
Mike
scott8933
06-03-2009, 02:57 AM
So far we're hearing a lot of announcements to announce forthcoming announcements...
This has become the Klein bottle of press releases.
Please make the press release's crystal clear... and also please wait until the "eye's" are dotted and the "Tee's" are crossed and all the legal papers are signed. This way it's a done deal and we're not stuck in the mist of negotiations and fine print issues, etc, etc...
to much conjecture and misunderstandings in public isn't going to help anyone.
Good luck...
Mike
This has become the Klein bottle of press releases.
Please make the press release's crystal clear... and also please wait until the "eye's" are dotted and the "Tee's" are crossed and all the legal papers are signed. This way it's a done deal and we're not stuck in the mist of negotiations and fine print issues, etc, etc...
to much conjecture and misunderstandings in public isn't going to help anyone.
Good luck...
Mike
cjberg
06-03-2009, 03:04 AM
So far we're hearing a lot of announcements to announce forthcoming announcements...
This has become the Klein bottle of press releases.
Would you like to release a statement on the release of the press release of eminent release of the press release?
This has become the Klein bottle of press releases.
Would you like to release a statement on the release of the press release of eminent release of the press release?
Gigayoda
06-03-2009, 04:18 AM
I've been talking to Brad and I plan to post some answers to all of this as soon as I get the green light. .
Thanks for working on keeping us in the loop!
Thanks for working on keeping us in the loop!
Martin Kay
06-03-2009, 07:17 AM
Downloaded 8 yesterday and have started trying some things out- raytraced soft shadows are pretty fast- these two images were rendered out at 2000px wide.
Had problem launching animator (on a pc) There is a post on the EI forum with link for an important Microsoft 'extension' to be installed.
Spent some time checking my shaders stilled worked. Scratches ( a shader I heve never used before) bought up an out of memory notification, so something wrong there...
http://www.martinkay-3d.com/index.html
Martin K
Had problem launching animator (on a pc) There is a post on the EI forum with link for an important Microsoft 'extension' to be installed.
Spent some time checking my shaders stilled worked. Scratches ( a shader I heve never used before) bought up an out of memory notification, so something wrong there...
http://www.martinkay-3d.com/index.html
Martin K
ediris
06-03-2009, 08:08 AM
Downloaded 8 yesterday and have started trying some things out- raytraced soft shadows are pretty fast- these two images were rendered out at 2000px wide.
Had problem launching animator (on a pc) There is a post on the EI forum with link for an important Microsoft 'extension' to be installed.
Spent some time checking my shaders stilled worked. Scratches ( a shader I heve never used before) bought up an out of memory notification, so something wrong there...
http://www.martinkay-3d.com/index.html
Martin K
The same happened to me when loading scenes created on my laptop which render fine but it gives me memory errors when playing it at the MacPro with 8GB at the office.
Had problem launching animator (on a pc) There is a post on the EI forum with link for an important Microsoft 'extension' to be installed.
Spent some time checking my shaders stilled worked. Scratches ( a shader I heve never used before) bought up an out of memory notification, so something wrong there...
http://www.martinkay-3d.com/index.html
Martin K
The same happened to me when loading scenes created on my laptop which render fine but it gives me memory errors when playing it at the MacPro with 8GB at the office.
Martin Kay
06-03-2009, 09:35 AM
The same happened to me when loading scenes created on my laptop which render fine but it gives me memory errors when playing it at the MacPro with 8GB at the office.
Yes, it rendered a sphere at the scratches default setting ok, but when I upped the settings I continually get an out of memory message. Haven't seen anyone use this shader yet...
Martin K
Yes, it rendered a sphere at the scratches default setting ok, but when I upped the settings I continually get an out of memory message. Haven't seen anyone use this shader yet...
Martin K
arketype
06-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Yes, it rendered a sphere at the scratches default setting ok, but when I upped the settings I continually get an out of memory message. Haven't seen anyone use this shader yet...
Martin K
Please post a link with a sample project and instructions to duplicate the error, so we can investigate this.
Thanks,
Dave
Martin K
Please post a link with a sample project and instructions to duplicate the error, so we can investigate this.
Thanks,
Dave
FrankyCh
06-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Hi Martin and Dave,
if my memory serves me well, it has been mentioned by the Igors (in one of the 8 beta docs) that the scartches shader is not really best friends with photons because it works in different channels and forces some recalculation or something along those lines.
I'll try to dig it out.
Cheers
Francois
if my memory serves me well, it has been mentioned by the Igors (in one of the 8 beta docs) that the scartches shader is not really best friends with photons because it works in different channels and forces some recalculation or something along those lines.
I'll try to dig it out.
Cheers
Francois
Martin Kay
06-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Please post a link with a sample project and instructions to duplicate the error, so we can investigate this.
Thanks,
Dave
Yes I will, later tomorrow.
Martin K
Thanks,
Dave
Yes I will, later tomorrow.
Martin K
plsyvjeucxfw
06-16-2009, 09:02 PM
It's been two and a half weeks now.
So what's the word?
So what's the word?
halfworld
06-16-2009, 09:07 PM
Finishing touches are being put on a new website that will reveal all...
Ian
Ian
plsyvjeucxfw
06-16-2009, 11:00 PM
Excellent.
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