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DigitalDeuce
07-20-2003, 02:05 AM
Here's two shots of what the development of the interface for LightWave 8 is shaping up like.

I'm posting them kinda big so you can read it.

These are early concepts that are created in Photoshop (so they are not actual screengrabs) and are the two that seem to be the favorite around here. These are also just representative of the "look" -- nothing representative of workflow is shown.

Bear in mind these are early development sketches - and might not have any resemblance to the final version. Besides, these don't even have the character setup or dynamics tabs.


http://www.cimagineering.com/lightwave/mockup_a.jpg


http://www.cimagineering.com/lightwave/mockup_b.jpg

Psyhke
07-20-2003, 02:12 AM
I like both of them, but I think I prefer the top one. I get a more solid feeling from that-- neutral dark grey won't get in the way after repeated use, either. (The second one borders on a "toyish" feel for me).

Thanks for sharing these! :applause:

Miyazaki
07-20-2003, 02:21 AM
I agree. I like both, but the grey color scheme more. Working several hours a day, the first one is more sparing for the eyes.
Clearly arranged! reminds me a bit of the dfx look, and in a positive way. Looks more organic and modern than the old(buttons rounded. 'Curves are beatiful to watch' Grim Natwick ;) ).
Yes, it`s better than the old. Just my evaluation.

mr_nebel
07-20-2003, 02:21 AM
Definately like the top one more, better contrast and it bears a nice resemblence to DFX+

Character setup and Dynamics tabs :drool: :applause: :beer:
now thats what i'm talking about.

wok
07-20-2003, 02:22 AM
I dont mind them both either, but i like the top image slightly more. Not sure how much i love all the round buttons but?? More importantly i cant wait to see whats under the dynamics and character setup tabs!!!!

LNT
07-20-2003, 02:31 AM
the colours are fine ...but I kinda feel the buttons would be more stylish if they were not so round....hmmmm

maybe just round off the corners or maybe even some discreet slant element to it...not sure

this interface actually looks like pre-six ones

CB_3D
07-20-2003, 02:33 AM
Now I am a little dissapointed, actually. I hoped for stuff like color, buttonstyle and everything else to be completely user configurable...at least to a reasonable degree.

As to Your question, both look too toyish IMHO. Know the new SONY ERICSSON cellphones, the ones that look like a power ranger toy? That´s what these concept made me remember.

If i could, i would make my LW interface lookthe simplest possible, without all these 3d elements in the buttons and so on. While I can see the logic in designing a 3D interface for a 3D app, from a usability POV it´s a wrong aproach (Bryce, anyone?). KISS, keep it simple and stupid. Glitter away for the ads, but let us configure it to our taste afterwards.

But keep posting them, WOHOO!!:) :beer: :beer: :)

Limbus
07-20-2003, 02:33 AM
I like the style! :thumbsup:
The first one looks better. With the higher contrast most bittons are easyer to read and it is very clear which buttons are pressed. Off course customizabel colors would be nice.

Florian

paul k.
07-20-2003, 02:34 AM
Hey Deuce,
First I would like to say that I really think that it's cool that you are even posting these, and I realise that this is unfinished work however I much prefer the current interface over these ones shown. Thes are a nice start however I would really recomend that you take a SOFT approach rather than glossy metalic look. It is very hard to work within an environment that has a lot of Light vs. Dark in it or even a stong color tone, I think the neutral approach that you guys and other company's have taken is right on. Not to always bring this up, but I would strongly recomend taking a look at Softimage XSI and notice the how easy it is to read everything and how panels blend together and your eyes naturally rest on the work that you are creating. THIS IS CRITICAL. THAT I NATURALY REST MY VIEWPOINT ON THE WORK THAT IS BEING CREATED AND NOT ON THE BUTTONS OR PANELS THAT MAY BE OPEN. THIND CLEAN AND SOFT. This of course is just one opinion, and good luck in future revisions, and look forward to seeing more soon!

DigitalDeuce
07-20-2003, 02:37 AM
All comments are totally appreciated.

Feedback : Good


:beer:

Lewis3D
07-20-2003, 02:41 AM
Hmmm - let me see ?

Personaly i more like second color setup but AFIK we can change colors in HUB settings to that's last thing what is now important (IMHO). You might consider to include few skins/colors (only hub CFG files) with different schemes and that will probably satisfy all tastes :).

But i really don't like those rounded buttons :(. That's looking like step back to me (we had rounded buttons in LW 5-5,6 if i remember corectly ? LW 6 was nice change and i more like curent shape of buttons. I know that WinXP have rounded menues but i turned off that also (occupies more space than plain w2k style and slowes windows in work with allt hat fancy look.

Also if you really insist on round buttons why then we have "sqare shaped" TABs and rounded buttons ? That's mixing of two totlay different types/shapes ??

Only thing what i like more on this concept is that area where is showed shortcut key in separated area - more easy to notice that way.

cheers

LNT
07-20-2003, 02:43 AM
yeah a softer,less beveled look would be more modern and in keeping with the times now but then the current lw7 interface is pretty much there as it is

subtlety is the key,simple with a tiny touch of style...kind of like they design corporate web pages these days

Miyazaki
07-20-2003, 02:50 AM
What I like about the 3dcharacter of the buttons is that I`m able to associate the groups(here tools, motions and ik) faster. The optical 'group binding' of the buttons is more distinctive. Bold letters for the group names intesifies this effect.

milqman
07-20-2003, 03:02 AM
I like the shortcut key separated from the rest of the test.

But I don't quite like the roundish circular look to these. I do like lightwave 7's look... XSI has a great look.

Hey, DigitalDeuce, could you show us the other possible interfaces? You said these were the two most popular around the office... but could you show us the others?

Cman
07-20-2003, 03:03 AM
I do prefer the grey Light Panel gradient that transitions from center to edges, rather than left-edge->right-edge in the bluish one.

I also don't really like the buttons. Looks to me like they take more real estate - or at least it feels to me like I'm looking at some big chunky "easy to read" buttons. :)

But I do like the little separator for the short-cut and arrow.

Glad to see these posted! Would love to see what's under the dynamics tab!

Mattoo
07-20-2003, 03:05 AM
I prefer the second one. It's easier on the eye to my eyes. The first one is too contrasty, plus the colours are a bit - Lightwave retro, kind of that Lightwave 3 look to them.

However the second one is a bit too "cheesy", it's probably the whole chrome look - perhaps somewhere inbetween :)

froggyplat
07-20-2003, 03:07 AM
definitely prefer the grey...much less eye strain involved. i don't care for the yellow-selected color tho. perhaps one of the blues from the second design would work better for it.

terryford
07-20-2003, 03:20 AM
I'm going to stir up controversy and say that I like the round buttons :) ...

Whatever the final UI ends up as somebody's bound to prefer the old one/want it in green/same as v 4.0/like winamp/matching my curtains :) ...

Grey version for me too please (as I said on the Newtek version of this thread)...


Regards,
Terry

chikega
07-20-2003, 03:27 AM
Well... the first one has that Combustion color scheme going on or, as one other person said, it has a pre LW 6 feel to it - maybe even Amiga like. Are we going retro like some cars and clothing have gone? Are we getting nostalgic? ;-)

Color schemes are configurable anyways - right? To me, the interface looks the same except the buttons have been rounded off at the corners. The tabs are still the same with sharp edges - so those might want to be rounded to have some continuity.

I know you guys are under crunch mode to get this out for Siggraph. But what would be really, really cool later on is to make it skinable - like the Opera web browser, themeXP, and various media players. LW could be the first skinable 3d app! Can't you imagine it? Some people might want to go for the easy-on-the-eyes subtle & efficient theme. But then some might want to go for that totally outrageous in-your-face obnoxious skin.

But really, in the end, it's what under the hood that counts - vrrroom, vrooom!
:eek:

chikega
07-20-2003, 03:31 AM
I just opened up Messiah and LW's interface is getting pretty close with the rounded off buttons. :)

Per-Anders
07-20-2003, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by chikega
Well... the first one has that Combustion color scheme going on or, as one other person said, it has a pre LW 6 feel to it - maybe even Amiga like. Are we going retro like some cars and clothing have gone? Are we getting nostalgic? ;-)

Color schemes are configurable anyways - right? To me, the interface looks the same except the buttons have been rounded off at the corners. The tabs are still the same with sharp edges - so those might want to be rounded to have some continuity.

I know you guys are under crunch mode to get this out for Siggraph. But what would be really, really cool later on is to make it skinable - like the Opera web browser, themeXP, and various media players. LW could be the first skinable 3d app! Can't you imagine it? Some people might want to go for the easy-on-the-eyes subtle & efficient theme. But then some might want to go for that totally outrageous in-your-face obnoxious skin.

But really, in the end, it's what under the hood that counts - vrrroom, vrooom!
:eek:

er i believe that maya can be skinned... and i know full well that cinema can be skinned... i have a few skins for it now (you can even if it's your kidney have the osx aqua scheme on windows with it, or make it look like lightwave).

ok back to the whole interface thing... personally i prefer the first one, but i think it's the bevelling (and outlining of the buttons) that makes it look retro and a bit cheesy. if i were newtek i'd drop the bevelling, and go with nice slight tonal changes, not gradients, just you know, buttons looking like transparency layers... hmm... that would be nice imo.

Psyhke
07-20-2003, 03:36 AM
I really like the 'rounded' theme, a la XSI, Digital Fusion, etc. But I don't really like gradients, in general, on interfaces.

chikega
07-20-2003, 03:42 AM
[i] and i know full well that cinema can be skinned... i have a few skins for it now (you can even if it's your kidney have the osx aqua scheme on windows with it, or make it look like lightwave).

Shhhh.... I was trying to get them motivated ... I have C4d too. Well, LW could be the third skinable 3d app ;)

toonshady
07-20-2003, 03:55 AM
I dont get this, lw 8 is around the corner. Can't you post some actual screen grabs? And what's up with the bubblely buttons. They are so butt ugly. Someone mention XSI, but believe me, you work with it for awhile, that Avid look will make you puke. Nuff said. :thumbsdow

xasteycracker
07-20-2003, 03:57 AM
I think the neutral approach that you guys and other company's have taken is right on. Not to always bring this up, but I would strongly recomend taking a look at Softimage XSI and notice the how easy it is to read everything and how panels blend together and your eyes naturally rest on the work that you are creating.

i agree with that. i took a look at xsi ui and it looks sweet. they sperated the tools in to section like maya. ie modeling,animation,rendering and i think another section. if we can get lightwave to do that it will better but i like the ui that you have now. the second one look great, i use that same color scheme on my lightwave.

chikega
07-20-2003, 04:08 AM
In all seriousness, Newtek, you need to contact this guy - this would be the next logical step for LW's interface - absolutely stunning:

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx_interface2.jpg
http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/selection_filter.html


http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/

:love:

rock
07-20-2003, 04:11 AM
I'd rather have Newtek work on the internals with the six months that it still got - instead of doodling with the interface colour. If the interface is changed, it should make it easier and more structured and functional than before - not just a rehash with some different button look and font.

hairy_llama
07-20-2003, 04:12 AM
Hehe, chikega,
I just posted the same thing up on the newtek boards. :)

faulknermano
07-20-2003, 04:14 AM
if it's cosmetics we are talking about then, fine. the outward appearance of lightwave NEVER bothered me in the first place. however, user interface changes from a functional POV have not been mentioned, so i am assuming that there will be no such changes on that part. because of that, it's is pretty disappointing. when i mean "interface changes from a functional POV", i mean stuff like the rearrangement of functions to unified / more organized places, central control for objects, etc. heck, maybe change the popup type requester control we find in plugins for a listbox type. are the properties' and plugins' panel resizable yet, btw?

DigitalDeuce
07-20-2003, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by toonshady
I dont get this, lw 8 is around the corner. Can't you post some actual screen grabs? And what's up with the bubblely buttons. They are so butt ugly. Someone mention XSI, but believe me, you work with it for awhile, that Avid look will make you puke. Nuff said. :thumbsdow


Hey Toonshady:

SIGGRAPH is indeed right around the corner, and as I said, the interface is a work in progress.

We wanted to post this before we were too locked in for feedback, and already I can see we're getting what we hoped for.

Like I'm thinking we might want to back the rounding off a little - although I still like the rounded buttons.

We want to include our users in the process. I hope you understand that.

hairy_llama
07-20-2003, 04:18 AM
faulknermano:

DigitalDeuce stated,


"These are also just representative of the "look" -- nothing representative of workflow is shown."

pblacklock
07-20-2003, 04:24 AM
the designs are nice to the eyes to work with, but the metallic reflective photoshop gradient look has to go. overdone and just not pleasing to see anymore. maybe a slight edgier corners might help out the overall look but still if you are under a deadline then the first pic is the bit better one but lightwave 7 still beats it by a large margin.

keep us posted for more pics

later,

paul

milqman
07-20-2003, 04:29 AM
i don't see what any of you see inthe first pic... its so contrasty... so distracting... I don't care for it at all. :thumbsdow

Shade01
07-20-2003, 04:45 AM
Well, since we are simply looking at look, I don't like the rounded buttons. I'm not sure about the colors either. How hard would it be to build some way for the user to adjust color on their own, or simply offer color presets? Is Lightwave the last major package that doesn't offer these basic things?

SplineGod
07-20-2003, 05:12 AM
Theres a couple of ways to change the interface colors:
1. You can manually do it with this:
BackgroundColor 125 125 125
StateButtonColor 225 125 0
DragButtonColor 100 100 100
DialogButtonColor 150 150 150
ActionButtonColor 50 50 50
InfoAreaColor 75 75 75
InfoAreaTextColor 255 255 255
ToolButtonColor 50 50 50

Copy and paste this into your LWHUB.cfg file.
Change colors to taste.
Make sure you create a backup of your .cfg file first so you
can revert to it if you need to. When you save the file make sure that LW AND the HUB are NOT running.

The other option is to download THIS (http://www.valecchi.it/programmi/LWExCS1.1.zip) program.

Cman
07-20-2003, 05:58 AM
(sheesh, the bashing is sloooowly creeping in again. :hmm: )

chikega, I also really like that look and layout.
Hey, would it be possible to make everything modular?
Take the timeline and make it vertical if I want, or at the bottom below everything else, or tear a tab from the top and it remains a panel in the current tab, unless I drag it to the top area where it becomes a tab again, etc etc

CTRL+X
07-20-2003, 06:08 AM
I like the first image,,

very much like theLW 5X era feel to it which is the best LW ever looked (IMHO)

And I would echo the comment about gradiants in interfaces,, its about time that all stopped,,,

chikega
07-20-2003, 06:18 AM
It's not only a beautiful interface, but the designer, Matt, also put some forethought into the workflow.

Here's a direct link of one of the interface shots - it's kinda big.

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx_interface2.jpg

Randuin
07-20-2003, 06:38 AM
I like the first one better =\

Karmacop
07-20-2003, 06:50 AM
The only difference between the two images that Deuce posted are the colours, which (if they leave things the same) we can change anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying too much about the colour.

Skinnable programs aren't good for usability. Maybe if you could chaneg the shape of the buttons that'd be fine, but changing things the way you can in winamp 3 or similar programs is bad(I don't know how cinema 4d does it).

Anyway, on to the interface. I don't like the found buttons at all. They are very distracting to look at. The current 6.0 style buttons are much more friendly on the eyes. I agree with chikega too, Matt's interface would be much easier to look at for long periods of time and it just looks much cleaner. I'd probably change his menu bar up the top into tabs though ..

dzogchen
07-20-2003, 06:57 AM
I like both. I would prefer if the buttons are less rounded too. I see that UNDO has a arrow beside it!!! Multiple UNDOS??:drool: :drool: :drool:

DigitalDeuce
07-20-2003, 06:57 AM
workflow stuff --

like -- what if you right-clicked on a value field -- and saw this popup window?

Things like this really assist in the workflow.



http://www.cimagineering.com/lightwave/rightclick.gif

DigitalDeuce
07-20-2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by dzogchen
I like both. I would prefer if the buttons are less rounded too. I see that UNDO has a arrow beside it!!! Multiple UNDOS??:drool: :drool: :drool:


Good eye.

Uh huh.

Multiple Undos.
Layout.

Yeah.

:buttrock:

gruvsyco
07-20-2003, 07:07 AM
I don't really have any beef with the current interface. Deuces postings are OK but Matt's interface design is really nice. I would love to see something like it implemented. I would also really like to see LW take on some of the more standard application UI stuff like the Windows Style menus that Matt has shown. I would leave any type of skinning out of it though.

Mangled Poly
07-20-2003, 07:13 AM
my personal opinion is form over function.. it looks to candy like xp does i hate it... what was wrong with the old UI?

Personally i think newteck should be working more on other things then a candy ui....

I think wings has rhe best ui less bottons more workspace yet everything is easily reachable.. something to think about instead of leaving all that padding for fancy bottons

dzogchen
07-20-2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by DigitalDeuce
Good eye.

Uh huh.

Multiple Undos.
Layout.

Yeah.

:buttrock:

:buttrock: :buttrock: WOO HOOO!!!

CG.p
07-20-2003, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by chikega
It's not only a beautiful interface, but the designer, Matt, also put some forethought into the workflow.


Except for the fact that there is WAY too much of the interface taken up but empty button/toolbar space.

edit:> this was in reference to the Lightwave VX image.

Monty
07-20-2003, 07:34 AM
I prefer Matt's interface, or the present one, if I have to choose those rounded buttons.

Eugeny
07-20-2003, 07:57 AM
My first impression was - damn, it's Lightwave 5's redesigned interface (especially dark one) - definitely the current buttons mach better (for me) them rounded one, as Mangled Poly said it's too candy like freaking XP ...
I really like the design from Matt but i agree this other people - it's too mach interface - i think the collaboration of current and Matt version will be great ...

Per-Anders
07-20-2003, 08:01 AM
if matt's interface had smaller buttons/tabs, less empty space, then that would be a very nice clean interface.

DigiLusionist
07-20-2003, 08:15 AM
Matt's interfaces are, for me, the best designs. The workspace he designed is configurable (as his many posts have specified), so there is not a dead space problem.

I like the feel of Matt's interface, and really hope Newtek SERIOUSLY considers going that route.

Thanks for posting, Deuce. That is very cool stuff.

dzogchen
07-20-2003, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by mdme_sadie
if matt's interface had smaller buttons/tabs, less empty space, then that would be a very nice clean interface.

Indeed Matt's design is very slick and very zen.:thumbsup: It occupied too much space, I want my viewport to be huge like the current one.

d3d
07-20-2003, 08:41 AM
In my opinion, the best LW UI mockup was posted on Flay.com a few years ago right before LW6 was annouced. It looked very professional unlike the mockups Deuce just posted where all changes are for the sake of changes; ok we had rectangular buttons, let's have rounded ones now. A change. Neither does they look good nor are easy on eyes. In my opinion, of course.

DigiLusionist
07-20-2003, 08:54 AM
Matt's interface does not occupy too much space. He posted many times that it can be CHANGED from how he presented it. His proposal is that the panel HIDES, thus freeing up the viewer space. Or, the interface would be customized to the way the user wanted.

This is to clarify a issue that keeps coming about about his interface that is not accurate.

Facial Deluxe
07-20-2003, 08:55 AM
Hey, I have a suggestion : Lets continue with the flat buttons, and when you hit TAB, they turn round :surprised

More seriously, its ok for me. Mean not terrific, but ok. Indeed, to make a choice I would need more variation between proposals IMHO.

Other then that, I like the menu in properties panel, but, I would like a copy button for all the properties at once (ie : light/shadow/ objects + Volumetrics )

Keep it up guys :)

dzogchen
07-20-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Facial Deluxe
Hey, I have a suggestion : Lets continue with the flat buttons, and when you hit TAB, they turn round :surprised


That is freaky hilarious!!:beer:

jmcalpin
07-20-2003, 09:10 AM
My color opinion
I think I would like to see some version of Matts color scheme and button design. I especially like the color scheme Matt used so if you go with the rounded buttons at least go with the lighter color scheme.

If you stay with the current color scheme remove that metal texture and just have solid colors. I would also love if you added a feature to allow us to change our own colors since everyone has to edit the hub file now.

Some points to consider
The rounded buttons reminds me of Avid and softimage. And as my boss is always drilling into my head "Make it ownable" (I work at an ad agency). If you stay with your current layout (but make the colors more Zen as people have called Matts color scheme) or go with Matts button styles then people will go "Oh that is Lightwave." It is recognizable and distinct.

Going with the rounded button may make sense in terms of having it fit both Win XP and OS X but it then blends into their products and looses its individuality.

And the last thing you want is someone watching a making of DVD extra and saying WOW Softimage has some cool new modeling tools I think we should look into getting it for our studio.

Hope that helps,

Jason

faulknermano
07-20-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by hairy_llama
faulknermano:

DigitalDeuce stated,


"These are also just representative of the "look" -- nothing representative of workflow is shown."

oh okay.. didnt see that. thanks for the correction..

Wesball
07-20-2003, 09:39 AM
I really like the idea of panels being modular... say like photoshop.

I don't know about everyone else, but I use dual monitors...

i would love for one full screen to be nothing but layout.. and then have little modular windows on the side for lights, objects, dynamics properties...

cool stuff like that.... I don't know... its late... maybe I make no sense.

ABSOLUTLEY AWESOME NEWTEK IS SHOWING THIS. :)

faulknermano
07-20-2003, 09:39 AM
would it possible to include this: the ability to copy and paste vectors as one? what i mean is that instead of having the user to manually input a combination of X Y Z or H P B or R G B everywhere, can there be some handle where you can copy all three values at once and then paste all three values simultaneously?

it will be a good speeder-upper. :)

Facial Deluxe
07-20-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano
would it possible to include this: the ability to copy and paste vectors as one? what i mean is that instead of having the user to manually input a combination of X Y Z or H P B or R G B everywhere, can there be some handle where you can copy all three values at once and then paste all three values simultaneously?

it will be a good speeder-upper. :)

200% AGREEEEEEE

Wesball
07-20-2003, 09:59 AM
Yeah... that would be sweet.

Its like After Effects...

I can take a layer and copy just the position tab settings or rotate settings...

or I can click on the Transform Heading and copy it all....

That would be so cool.

Kvaalen
07-20-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano
would it possible to include this: the ability to copy and paste vectors as one? what i mean is that instead of having the user to manually input a combination of X Y Z or H P B or R G B everywhere, can there be some handle where you can copy all three values at once and then paste all three values simultaneously?

it will be a good speeder-upper. :)

My set of KeyControl plugins does just that:

KeyControl (http://mapage.noos.fr/samuelLK/Plugins/Plugins.html#KeyControl)

Let's not get to far off topic.
I like the top interface better but as many people have said, it should be bossible to still change colors.

Ibanezhead
07-20-2003, 10:36 AM
If I had to choose of the two, the bottom one for sure. But both of these are far too much, as others have said.

One thing I find annoying about lightwave's interface are the different color buttons. That's just messy looking. You guys really ought to go with a top drop down and right click menu system. This side menu is just confusing, and cluttered looking. If you want a side menu, then make it so the windows that pop up actually show up there on the side, if you wanted them too. The transform type-ins could be there also.

As far as graphic style is concerned, I really like the interface mentioned that was done by that guy in his spare time, the white one. That looked nice and clean...

Vic

Facial Deluxe
07-20-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by DigitalDeuce
workflow stuff --

like -- what if you right-clicked on a value field -- and saw this popup window?

Things like this really assist in the workflow.



http://www.cimagineering.com/lightwave/rightclick.gif

Mmm, Im looking at it again and I find this pop up useless. I explain :
Add Enveloppe -----> already have an E button
Copy/Paste Value---> ctrl C / ctrl V
Add expression -----> ok...

And don't forget the last time you add some popup, was on 7.5b, you screwed the spreadsheet.
So please double check.

IMHO, a "copy all properties" button (and paste of course) would improve a lot more.

Take care

Kvaalen
07-20-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Ibanezhead
If I had to choose of the two, the bottom one for sure. But both of these are far too much, as others have said.

One thing I find annoying about lightwave's interface are the different color buttons. That's just messy looking.

The colors of the buttons are to show if the function is a tool, generic plugin, or whatever.
You can change the colors if you don't like it. ;)

Originally posted by Ibanezhead
You guys really ought to go with a top drop down and right click menu system. This side menu is just confusing, and cluttered looking. If you want a side menu, then make it so the windows that pop up actually show up there on the side, if you wanted them too. The transform type-ins could be there also.


If you don't like the side bar, it is possible to hide/unhide it.

I actually prefer the side menu much more than the top menu.
I have a tab that includes all the functions I use the most often and don't have any reasonable shortcuts to apply it to. I like to have it open all the time and I can easily click on what I want and not have to open a menu on the top. It really speeds up the work flow.

comanche
07-20-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by DigitalDeuce
workflow stuff --

like -- what if you right-clicked on a value field -- and saw this popup window?

Things like this really assist in the workflow.

I like the RMB options. Workflow enhancements.

For the interface: the rounded, beveled buttons are very hard to read. Gradients are nice to add a slight 3dimensional look to the buttons. I have to agree with some others, Matt's interface design mockup is really nice. The soft look does not stress my eyes.

Even the current LW GUI is far better than the two mockups you have posted IMHO. Keep on the work and please keep us posted :applause:

Cheers,
Andreas

Keiyentai
07-20-2003, 12:48 PM
OK I'm a LW newbie lol I have only used 7.0 and I guess the interface is ok but I REALLY Like Matts. Look wonderful and everything is right there. Personaly for me that would help me alot. Be easier on my eyes too. I like it and I am feverishly waiting for LightWave 8. Is there a set release date yet or estimated? Just wondering. Oh whats the Dynamics tab? It's new right? (If not I'm going to feel real dumb) I hope NewTek DOES NOT GO with the Wings3D look....yes Wings3D is a good free modeler and easy I gues but TO MUCH Right Mouse Button Clicking for EVERYTHING!! lol. Anywho I would go with Matts look. :D

Another thing is make it more simple to make charactors with. I know this may sound dumb but I model chars for a game and box modeling is the easist way but also it can be an absolute pain. If you do it poly by poly and extrude/bevel it's ok but takes forever. Maybe add a feture where you can make simple shapes like and arm or leg ect ect and then be able to tweak the living crap out of it with tools just for that. Get what I mean? Like have a tool where you can make a hand and add alot of detail to it with out having to go threw alot of hassle. I know LightWave is probaly one of the easier 3D Apps out there but it would be neet to see something like it. Just dont go the route 3D studio Max is right now. The menu's on 3D Studio Max 4.0+ are an Eyesore to me and verry confusing.

Well I think I have ranted enough and probaly have cuased some conservercy with the LightWave vets lol so I will stop now lol.

Tim Deneau
07-20-2003, 12:52 PM
Thanks for sharing. I'd rather see the interface take on changes that improved workflow though.

Like how layout and modeler are seperated... just seems like an unnecessary hassle.

allaboutkeys
07-20-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Keiyentai
Like have a tool where you can make a hand and add alot of detail to it with out having to go threw alot of hassle.

Limbs as primitives? Sounds like a cool feature for the next Poser version... ;) ;) ;) Werner will like this idea!

Bytehawk
07-20-2003, 01:32 PM
I really like matt's designs better over the current one or the mockups presented here.

Agree with the 'identity' post. This is not to be taken lightly.

one adition, make the sidebar hideable, like you can do with the taskbar in windows. When the mouse cursor goes to the edge of the screen the panel pops up...

and 'tearable' parts of the sidebar would be good since a lot of us work on 2 screens anyway. With that comes 'save current window positions' obviously.

For the rest I really would like to see an update to the configure menus dialog. more what you see is what you get. want a button between two others - drag it onto the interface where it should go kinda stuff.

Nemoid
07-20-2003, 01:38 PM
of the two, i like more the second one.

the first can seem good, but the grey
is too dark, and there's too much contrast.
also, grey is good, but is a bit boring to see
all damn grey.

rounded buttons aren't he best, maybe
they are too much rounded.

Matt interface : i likeit, but it has too small characters,
and the grey tone is this time too much light.

also, think its time to put a system to choose the UI colors

another thing to consider and fix:
at 1600X1200 characters of Lw become too little,
and increasing with windows characters they
doesn't fit in the buttons. so, a way to decide their
dimension, is required in Lw.

Stone
07-20-2003, 01:39 PM
i for one dont like matt's gui mockups one bit - actually i dont like either of the ones posted here either. dark interfaces have always turned me greatly off, and the round buttons isnt really very stylish.

my old time favorite, and by still, is the current lw7 interface - its clean, its simple and though it can be improved on, it effective and beautiful - i say keep the current one.

/stone

DimitrisLiatsos
07-20-2003, 01:40 PM
:wavey: Hi...i have read all the pages of this thread and i would like to say one thing or two DigitalDeuce .


I always loved LW ..i own it since version 6 ( thanks the guys in Newtek Europe for every help they gave me, although they didn't have to at all...) ....i also already preordered LW 8..'cuase it's a software that i think that any one who works with 3D in post production or any other area must have in his machine.
.... Personal opinion!!!


BUT ...i don't care for buttons color , i don't care for button design also..i would like only two things to change that would make me use LW MORE ...

1...Modeler and Layout in one interface.
2...Edge selection
3...More interactivity in Selection/De-selection tool
4..Improvements in Graph Editor and more accurate update when i am changing things

and finally
5...General improvements in the Animation Area where i think u know in Newtek the problems that now exist and need improvement.

All theese were written in good wil and in any case i don't want to start a debate on that !...

sorry for my bad english

take care
:wavey:

Chewey
07-20-2003, 01:59 PM
I prefer the second look if we really have to change from the current look. Give me function over form and more non modal panels and the like.

Matt's looks fine for someone else's application but not Lightwave. Its panels are too intrusive and similar to pmg's Messiah's style which imho is a pita.

ghopper
07-20-2003, 02:38 PM
If I would have to choose one I would pick the first one. It looks very similar to DF's interface elements and colors.

Matt's design looks nice, but tend to be too eye candy as well. The shadow on the interface text makes the text look a bit blurry and in the long run it's not easy on the eyes.

But PLEASE , give us the option to stick to current interface look and feel ( LW7 ). Just keep it simple stupid, I like flat buttons and I like it if the interface isn't too prominent or eye candy like the new design tend to be. Too much bevel and gradients.

You have to remember that you're using this tool 8+ hours a day and it needs to be easy on the eyes.

I agree you have to make an interface look good somehow to attract new users, to make a first good impression etc, but an "eye candy" interface doesn't mean it's a usable one as well.

Get some professional advice from UI experts rather than asking us here, where the majority I presume are beginners or hobbyist and not professionals.

Ask all the experienced users ( like Aristomenis Tsirbas, Taron, etc ), studios and people who have used LW professionally for years.

Examples for good interfaces in my opinion are :

Flash MX
Mirai
Cinema4D ( you can hide the icons )
Photoshop 6

Please make your UI decision not based on how hobbyists or beginners would like to see LW, but how professional users would want to see it. But I'm sure you do that anyway ;)

Emmanuel
07-20-2003, 02:38 PM
@Deuce:

I prefer the first one, the darker the badder, erm, better :DD

As for the right-click-popup:
let's enhance this, don't ak me HOW MANY times i do a right click on an item in a viewport in either modeler or layout because I feel there should be something popping up ( a la photoshop).
A context sensitive menue, for example right click on a light opens its properties or a menu that lets me choose stuff (clone, clear, props...).
Much cooler than the shift/ctrl-click stuff, much easier to learn.

As for the multiple undos in Layout:
I didn't even hope for it, I thought the little arrow was just for switching between undo-redo once :D

Kvaalen
07-20-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Emmanuel

As for the right-click-popup:
let's enhance this, don't ak me HOW MANY times i do a right click on an item in a viewport in either modeler or layout because I feel there should be something popping up ( a la photoshop).
A context sensitive menue, for example right click on a light opens its properties or a menu that lets me choose stuff (clone, clear, props...).
Much cooler than the shift/ctrl-click stuff, much easier to learn.


I don't mind the right click pop up even though one already exsists, but if you ask me it's useless unless you have different options, since all the options there are very easy to do.

How about lets stop getting of topic and talking about the work flow since DigitalDuce said that the previews do not show any of the workflow. You don't know what they already have.

I don't like Matts interface for many of the reasons that were already mentioned. Please think of us users with one screen!

Karmacop
07-20-2003, 03:35 PM
ghopper: I think Flash mx is a god example of a bad interface. It feels cluttered to me.

And photoshop? I just hate it :p

vangaans
07-20-2003, 03:39 PM
Prefer the first interface, the darker one.

Larrikin
07-20-2003, 03:56 PM
I couldn't care less about how the interface looks.
Did you fix DOF?
Is character rigging and animation going to be going to be quicker and easier?
How much longer will we have to wait for this new version be released?

EsHrA
07-20-2003, 04:02 PM
oke, i encourage all efforts in designing a new ui, but i think these 2 grabs are a step back.

i dont like them, it clutters things up, we need a slick working app not only a 'slick' looking app. IMHO

i prefer Matts designs by far, because its really easy on the eyes and looks 'understandable'

for me, just leave lw8 as it is same as lw7.5 ui and maybe do Matts kinda designs for lw9.


Cheers,

-EsH-

LNT
07-20-2003, 04:12 PM
next lw interface needs to be consistent enough for us to still feel it's lightwave

current interface is cool in its design but as anything else it can definitely be improved

ie colours and soft bevel button theme we have now is proven as good but the way panels and toolbars work and the way they're organized can surely still be more streamlined

if buttons and colours are altered just slightly it wont bother anybody

surfymunky
07-20-2003, 04:18 PM
I'm in the not liking the blobby childsafe corners look camp. Perhaps a colour customisable version of what we have (which I like) and a good look at the workflow would be better I prefer the ui to be as annonymous as possible so I can concentrate on the visuals and one of the reasons I chose lightwave above stuff like C4D.

regards

paul

manfriday
07-20-2003, 04:24 PM
I think Matt's UI is the best thus far.
If you could press soem magic button (tab for instance) and make the big panel at the bottom dissapear and reappear when you need it, I think that would give 1-screen users plenty of room, and still make it quickly accesible to them when they wanted to use it.
Making those panels dockable would be sweet.. for us 2-monitor folks.. we could tear off panels and stick them on our other monitor and sit back, admiring the huge viewports on our other monitor.
We'd probably be stricken with fits of fantaical giggling and have to call in sick to work for a few days. Be careful Newtek.. you dont want to bring the american economy to a grinding halt when LW 8 is released!
The interfaces Duece posted remind me of the AIKON theme for windows XP. I wonder if that is where they get the idea.
But then I wonder a lot of things. Ahh the mind of the add infected artist certainly does wander.
LOOK! SOMETHING SHINY!
*runs off to get something shiny*

Nemoid
07-20-2003, 04:38 PM
The workflow is different from interface look.

to me, Lw interface is good right now, with no changes.

however, giving to the user the possibility to change button colors,
and maybe windows type and organization, like in Photoshop or Flash would solve many probs.and also,
a new user would like it.

professionals are very good, but new users will be the future pros so their opinion can be good. also, one person can be new
to an app, but not to CG or design and could give some great
tips for interfaces.
IMHO too, great pros tend sometimes to be too much conservative.

the only things to look for are testing workflow speed,
if tools are easy to find and in a logic place, for new
and old users and if eyes suffer from working many
hours with the interface.

i'd like some panels rearrangements and reorganization
but these are little things and are related to workflow.

ah, one thing i'd like. the possibility to pass from tab to tab

(items, dinamics and so on) clicking on the spacebar
in Layout.

read also the Castius Lw feature list for other ideas.:buttrock:

yog
07-20-2003, 04:42 PM
I like the first darker one better, not so much strain on the eye.

But could we please lose the gradient on the buttons ?
Whatever the colours you choose for the buttons and the text, the text will always stand out better one side of the gradient than the other.
A small thing, but does anoy me :wavey:

PolyMangler
07-20-2003, 06:06 PM
i'm gonna be ambigious and say somewhre inbetween the two....i like the colors breaking up the groups but it's a lil too much differance contrast. maybe go with the grey scheme adn just shit the hues/sats a few points to show seperation

toonshady
07-20-2003, 06:20 PM
It would be nice that if you hide the side bar, you can click on the tabs menu on the top, and a drop down menu that reflects the side bar menu appears. The sidebar menu should be scrollable too. When you cascade LW window currently, a good deal of the tools are missing even if you click on that "more" button.

I'll add to it: Matt's interface so far is pretty kick ass. For those who likes an interface that doesn't have much buttons and more viewport space, his design allows for tear-off and hiding of individual sections. Kinda like Maya: you want to hide something and keep others, just do it.

HowardM
07-20-2003, 06:24 PM
I hate them both, know why? because they look like LW7 with round buttons....damnit, who cares about the interface, how about better workflow and FULLY INTEGRATED state of the art features like other packages?!....

how about envelopes for every single variable?
how about gradients, and I mean every single type of gradient for everything?! (not one or two types here another 2 or 3 here...all the same list for every dropdown!)
how about MD, HV, PFX all working together seamlessly?!
how about all 3rd party pluginz using the same interface design, drop downs, etc....
MD doesnt even allow you to resize the stinking window!?
even simple things like that make you wonder who the hell is designing this crap!?

its a real bummer to see 8 is going to be 7.5z
:(
i was really hoping that NT would listen to the users, give us what we want...instead you play around with childish ploys like Protons little tease and now this lame preview of a photoshopped screen shot....whos marketing ideas are these?! does NT really think it can survive like this?

its funny, how you copied XSI and made round buttons...maybe we should just buy XSI considering its coherent and intuitive!?

not looking forward to LWs future....
:(

very upset...and its my bday damnit!

Chewey
07-20-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
I hate them both, know why? because they look like LW7 with round buttons....damnit, who cares about the interface, how about better workflow and FULLY INTEGRATED state of the art features like other packages?!....

how about envelopes for every single variable?
how about gradients, and I mean every single type of gradient for everything?! (not one or two types here another 2 or 3 here...all the same list for every dropdown!)
how about MD, HV, PFX all working together seamlessly?!
how about all 3rd party pluginz using the same interface design, drop downs, etc....
MD doesnt even allow you to resize the stinking window!?
even simple things like that make you wonder who the hell is designing this crap!?

its a real bummer to see 8 is going to be 7.5z
:(
i was really hoping that NT would listen to the users, give us what we want...instead you play around with childish ploys like Protons little tease and now this lame preview of a photoshopped screen shot....whos marketing ideas are these?! does NT really think it can survive like this?

its funny, how you copied XSI and made round buttons...maybe we should just buy XSI considering its coherent and intuitive!?

not looking forward to LWs future....
:(

very upset...and its my bday damnit!

Well Happy Birthday!:thumbsup: :applause: :thumbsup:

Cheer up and perhaps just wait a week or so before getting upset. Siggraph is real soon and the streaming video should be of interest to those who can't make it there.

koroko
07-20-2003, 06:30 PM
First of all, i´m very thankfull that NT decided to post this and the Layout initial feature overview...

Deciding between that two colour schemes could depend on if i´m working in the morning or the night, both could do it to me..

But definitly that rounded beveled buttons are much like an step back, rather than evolution...its not a matter of taste, its a matter of something you work with, and something you have to stare to more than 8h a day...

The current LW ui is much lighter to look at, that meaning it doesnt get in the middle while i´m working with it. But that buttons have weight to my eyes, I could easily get tyred of seeing them, they look fancy & candy (poser?), but thats all, after that first look, once you start to use them you will start to see the useless of all that beveling...

I have been a max user for some time and something i didnt like about max was the interface, not only the look & feel but also the usability of it...that and some other reasons made me change to LW, and i always felt that lw ui was waaaaaay looking more serious, usable, & pleasant to my eyes...

I can not say that looking at that screen grabs...

As a conclusion; that UI "stands" way too much between user-application...


This is just my opinion...



______
angel

Nemoid
07-20-2003, 06:47 PM
HowardM, we're talking about Lw UI, not features.
this thread seems going crap as always.. :shrug:

HowardM
07-20-2003, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the bday greets!

:banghead:
Let the user design the colors and the buttons!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot believe how much time you all have spent talking about the buttons!!!!!!!!!!
LETS MAKE A BETTER WORKING LW!
:(

its funny, ya know, LW being made (or should be) by artists...
you think they could of figured out by now that it would be best to allow us to make our own choice, so that the user could make round, square, clear or whatever they think looks good, buttons....users could share skins....there could be a SkinDesigner2000 that would easily allow you to mix and match buttons, colors, whatever....how many years has the brushed metal been argued about?!
but see,....already you have sucked me in, and I have wasted TOO MUCH TIME thinking and discussing the look...

the point is, red, white, bluw, icons, words, alien language, it doesnt matter what it looks like if LW falls behind, because the programmers didnt worry about the state of the art being displayed at Siggraph and how they can utilize it...they worried about buttons...

LETS WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE A FASTER, BETTER LW!

...ungh, Im outta here...gonna go enjoy the hell outta my bday!
whos buying shots!?
:)

Miyazaki
07-20-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by chikega
It's not only a beautiful interface, but the designer, Matt, also put some forethought into the workflow.

Here's a direct link of one of the interface shots - it's kinda big.


Uuh, I´m perhaps the only one, but this interface design is odd(nothing personal;) ). Too much space, milky colors. Looks too coltish. If Newtek implements such an interface, I would stay with 7.5.

Stone
07-20-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Miyazaki
Uuh, I´m perhaps the only one, but this interface design is odd. Too much space, milky colors. Looks too coltish. If Newtek implements such an interface, I would stay with 7.5.

i can second you on that one - i wouldnt want matt's design idea either.

/stone

Mike RB
07-20-2003, 07:04 PM
I like both and would hope we could create either from chainging the colors. Good job. Please give us the ability to reduce or eliminate the gradient on everything.

Mike

paul k.
07-20-2003, 07:12 PM
I posted yesterday about developing the interface in a well thought out and visually friendly way. Ala XSI...The current early screens shown do not look anything like what I was trying to describe. I think that NT should stick with the current interface until they find a nice balance between what 7.5 looks like and what 8 or 9 or whatever will become. I must admit that though this is a seperate issue from the features and the real heart of the program, The current styles shown are pretty discouraging. I also want ot comment on the some people earlier on saying that they like the "DFX look", in my opinion and I have talked with many animators about this, that this look is not comfortable and I don't know why NT feels they need this affiliation with DFX? If you are going to copy an interface pick one that people already like, something like Final Cut Pro comes to mind or Avid DV, Vegas, or gasp....The current interface!

Nemoid
07-20-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
Thanks for the bday greets!

:banghead:
Let the user design the colors and the buttons!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot believe how much time you all have spent talking about the go**mn buttons!!!!!!!!!!
LETS MAKE A BETTER WORKING LW!
:(
etc..

I agree with your opinion, but I don't think that Lw[8]will
be a mess in its features. I think Nt works for us and they had the gentle idea to submit their EARLY design for Lw UI.

I too think that an easy system to change colors in the UI is required, and i think this has been told many times.

we know nothing about how Lw[8] will be, and we have to wait till Siggraph.

LNT
07-20-2003, 07:44 PM
I dont see why people again resort to feature whining we've had in this forum for months now in a thread that polls for users' opinion on interface style

i guess it makes them feel more important than what's being duscussed here :shrug:

Mike Pauza
07-20-2003, 08:03 PM
I like "the feeling" of the second look MUCH better.

Some people will complain about the "cutesy buttons", but I love the fact that to me it looks like an expensive application. I bet if NewTek conducted a survey (among non 3D folks), they would find that the second look is perceived to cost (and be worth) much more.

yog
07-20-2003, 08:12 PM
The reason I like the first one a lot better is because of the 2.00am effect.

At 2.00am I start to get tired and the ol' eyes aren't fucusing too well. Now on the second interface I'm blearely looking around trying to find that lighter shade of grey that signifies the button is active, and even then I still have to try and concentrate even harder to get an overall impression of what light grey buttons in a sea of different shades of grey are active over the entire screen.

The first interface by contrast allows me to get a good idea of what is active right up until my head hits the keyboard :thumbsup:

illustrativ
07-20-2003, 08:12 PM
Interface im quiet happy with 7.5 interface, please dont make it XP style, thats why i took the theme off when i had XP and no dont use the Matt guys interface, i think it would scare new users, as it seems more confusing than usual. If you can come up with a design that will make new users happy then im sure the more advanced users wont have a problem.

NT keep up the good work and keep us up to date until LW8 is released.

dennisw
07-20-2003, 08:47 PM
I prefer 7.5's current interface to either of the ones posted by Deuce; it's not changed much, and the changes don't really do anything to improve upon the current interface.

I prefer Matt's approach, I think all of the text could be darker, and it looks to me like there is a faint drop-shadow under all the text, I would remove this since it makes the text harder to read.

I think the time for dockable windows is here; Lightwave is way too window happy, and most of them seem to me like they could be consolidated. Currently LW wastes alot of screen real estate (IMHO).

If spreadsheet didn't function so much like a plug-in (performance wise), it seems like it could be merged with the scene editor, and lose one of the windows I currently shuffle around my monitors, the same with Surface and Image Editor. If windows were dockable, I'd probably have the graph editor docked with the scene editor/spreadsheet, since I typically like them pretty large on a second monitor.

Matt's design accomodates this sort of functionality, and I think is more flexible; add the ability to change colors and configure menus like you can currently, and I think this would be the best approach.

I know that Deuce stated "These are also just representative of the "look" -- nothing representative of workflow is shown", but to me, interface design and workflow are directly related, you can't judge one without the other.

Nemoid
07-20-2003, 09:36 PM
I like dockable panels! i also find them useful in some way in modeler, because its fun to work with numeric, layer editor and other windows opened, but u can't lock them easily, and u have to make them appear with shortcuts.
I personally like Corel Draw's interface with dcking and attaching windows. this, united with the possibility to expand shrink them would be a worderful system though i never found an app with these 3 characteristics together in windows.

about UI/workflow
isn't possible that what we saw was only a test about the look, manipulating the current interface and then many things will be changed actually in other tabs that doesn't appear now?

digitalshaman
07-20-2003, 10:00 PM
The interface does not show in your finished, rendered, piece of art.
I think, painting with a nice looking paintbrush is good, but working with a smooth yet firm paintbrush is more important.

I persoannal have no problem with the look of lightwave. I have some problems with the feel and the works of the ui, sometimes it seems inconsistant. Under Mac OS X its not far from awful unless you have some hack to the actually system to change how it works (like this little app called quitling).

I really dont like the 2 concepts at the start of this thread, i think they look like windows XP's tacciness, it looks like fischerprice ffs! i dont want some jolly looking 'toyish' interface. LW7 looks serious, for serious artists, this new concept is a 'brycerization' of LW!

Please, Please dont change the look of LW just change the feel, and if u are going to change the look, make sure its good.

Oh, and i sure hope theres a fullscreen mode!!!!!

CG.p
07-20-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by digitalshaman
The interface does not show in your finished, rendered, piece of art.
I think, painting with a nice looking paintbrush is good, but working with a smooth yet firm paintbrush is more important. [/B]

Why? Your paintbrush doesn't show in your finished painting. Same thing here.

digitalshaman
07-20-2003, 10:10 PM
thats why is said it being smooth and firm is more important, cos that does effect your finished piece!

duh :P

3DDave
07-20-2003, 10:19 PM
Honestly I think the UI "look" of Lightwave 7.5 is fine. Replace the scratched metal look for a solid color and you’re done.

The REAL problems are in the organization of the UI.

Such as having the render settings separate from the global illumination and effects panels. This is one area that needs to be combined into one usable panel with tabs to go to each section.

Basically, think of how many separate panels we must go through to setup a render, expressions, surfaces ect and reduce it to one.

Please don't make us go to every element (light, object ect) to access an expression. You need to create an expression panel that is used to access all of the scenes expressions. You have seen Messiah right? Look at Motion Builders constraints panels.

Also I would like to see less emphasis on the side panel for single action buttons. Make real panels for use as an access point to those actions. See XSI for more on this.

Lastly, squared off UI's are coming back now. We need Lightwave to be a leader not a follower.

RudeYuut
07-20-2003, 10:56 PM
Stick with the current interface, luv the multiple undos, hope they're more improvements in the "animation" department. Nuff' said.

Wesball
07-21-2003, 02:05 AM
I'll take whatever Newtek gives me.

Everyone stop complaining about the features... this thread is about the INTERFACE! Not the features.

Does everyone think that Deuce is the only person working on LW8 and he's wasting valuable time on interface or something? I'm sure there is a whole team of people who are working on only the "FEATURES"... Deuce asked us about "INTERFACE".... lets try to stay on topic.

mohh
07-21-2003, 02:35 AM
Personally, I like the interface the way it currently is. If there had to be a change made, then I would rather see Matt's version implemented. I don't like the rounded buttons at all. A modular interface like Flash's would be awesome, along with panel set presets.

cg_matt
07-21-2003, 03:00 AM
Oh my word!!!!

I don't check the forum for two days and all hell breaks loose!!!

:)

Geez, where do I start! To say a lot of people don't care about what LightWave should look like is a total under-statement!
Talk about a hot potato, how many posts!!!

Thing is, people have to work with LightWave everyday, and if they don't like the interface, or some part of the interface it will annoy them, everyday, every minute, so it has to be right, your messing with something very dear to peoples hearts!

I like many others must congratulate NewTek for being brave enough to show design concepts this early on, remember the competition could be reading this too so NewTek are leaving themselves open a little here, we should applaud them for being brave enough to do so.

Unless of course it's all a red herring and they plan to do something totally different!!!

Thanks must go to all those who have spoken positively about the 'vX' concept interface, I had no idea so many people appreciated it, I'm a little taken back by that!

However as some people have pointed out, it's not perfect, it's just one idea from the many forms the LightWave interface could take, not everyone is expected to like it, which is why the main thrust behind it was user-configurability, it's the only way to please everyone - allow them to make it their own.

I would like to clear a few things up however:

It takes up too much space

The main screen mockup on the website is showing a small screen space, the only reason for this was to aid scrolling around the screen in Photoshop while I was designing it.

Most users operate a much higher screen resolution than shown which would give much more space to the main viewport.

All of the tabs / menus can be either torn off to float, or double-click collapsed when not in use, the functionality of the interface is shown here:

[/URL]

So it would be totally possible for those that operate two monitors to have all the palettes on another screen with the main viewport on another. It would also be possible to have a configuration that follows the existing LightWave interface as it stands.

There is too much space around the buttons

Well, this is a personal preference I'm afraid, I don't like cluttered user interfaces (who can honestly say they do?) Cluttered interfaces generally tend be to badly designed, confusing, or are very old programs that have had feature after feature added to the interface without much thought to workflow impact.

I don't like heavy looking interfaces, I like ones that appear 'light on their feet' (i.e. fast) and clean looking (easy to use) without button borders squashed too close to the text, but that's just me!

The vX interface could be easily 'shrunk', reducing the spacing between buttons / menus / text etc. In fact it should be a user setting, rather than hard-coding a button width / height it would be based on a user percentage setting with some degree of 'design control' held by the program to stop users creating interfaces that get out of control!

But there is a certain 'breathing space' needed around buttons, in graphic design terms, it's not the shape you've designed but also the space around it too!

It's too light

Again this is down to user preference, so it should be user-defined (like it is now in LightWave but extended further) however, you show a light grey version and people think that's it! So here's a dark version!

[URL=http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/lw_7_5_interface_dark.jpg] (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/lightwave_vx_functionailty.jpg)

- - -

To re-iterate what policarpo has been saying throughout, the vX interface would not be easy to implement in LightWave 8 (and he should know working in Frog Design's interface dept. - I'm not worthy, I'd kill to work there!!!) this is why it was called vX . . . version 10! (It was never a reference to nerve gas!!!)

It would require a total rewrite of the interface code, and the degree of user-configurability we're talking about here is absolutely massive!!! Not to be taken lightly at all!

- - -

However dragging myself back to the purpose of the thread's initial post, comments regarding the look of the two design concepts.

I'm ignoring the colour schemes because they will be user-definable right?

I have to agree with what most people have said regarding the rounded buttons, they look too 'heavy' for my liking, the radiussed corners could also hinder the clarity of the text they hold, not to mention that heavy borders all take pixels away from workspace (which seems to be a major issue) do we need borders at all?

For me the first concept has too much contrast, this is a problem with really dark interfaces with white text, it will become uncomfortable after a while, which makes me prefer 'looking' at the second concept.

Having said that though, the second concept looks too Windows XP silver theme like (I don't care for XP's luna look at all, too clunky!) which makes me prefer the 'look' of the concept 1!

So I guess if I had to go with this concept it would be a merging of the two, but given the options however I think I'd prefer to stick with the current interface but lose the brushed look, add more control over ALL the UI element colours, and add the ability to change the default font being used.

Actually I can believe no one has mentioned the font yet, the font shown in the concepts looks like 'Tahoma' to me, which is better than the font currently being used.

A font sensitive user interface is a must, being able to change the font adds a huge impact to the look of an interface.

- - -

While this thread is talking about the look and feel of the interface, deuce did point to one area of workflow, I'd like to add to it: Can we have some of this please . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/drag_and_drop.gif

Cheers
Matt

faulknermano
07-21-2003, 03:15 AM
A font sensitive user interface is a must, being able to change the font adds a huge impact to the look of an interface.

oyez! now why didnt i think of that? arial fonts are really hard to read, especially when you have letter I's.

Miyazaki
07-21-2003, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt


A font sensitive user interface is a must, being able to change the font adds a huge impact to the look of an interface.

Nice idea. With multilangual string configs plz.


Originally posted by cg_matt

While this thread is talking about the look and feel of the interface, deuce did point to one area of workflow, I'd like to add to it: Can we have some of this please . . .



Cheers
Matt
I know the workflow isn`t the issue here, but 3 notes:
Full customizable non modal drag`n drop interface :beer:

Cf!
07-21-2003, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt

given the options however I think I'd prefer to stick with the current interface but lose the brushed look, add more control over ALL the UI element colours, and add the ability to change the default font being used.


Exactly my thoughts

cg_matt
07-21-2003, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by Miyazaki Nice idea. With multilangual string configs plz.

ahhhhh . . . back to the Amiga days!!!

Willax
07-21-2003, 04:17 AM
My personal preference is the second one with the bluish tint style. It helps to set the option apart from the workspace. I also noticed that the layout was no different than the current 7.5 interface. Is this just a cosmetic improvement atm or will there be changes to the interface also? I would like to see a mouse to left border menu appear option to create more visual workspace. That would be kind of cool. And a lockable one for those that prefer the visuals available always. Anyhow I do like the style changes, but the second one is my preference. Thanks Deuce for sharing that with us.

VirtualFM
07-21-2003, 04:49 AM
I also love Matt's interface. Not exactly the color scheme or the space between buttons, but the way every bar is dockable and movable and the buttons can be rearranged etc. in a word "Drag'n-drop'" (or is it 3 words?! :-)

As of the current screens posted by Deuce, they are the same interface, only the color scheme changes. In terms of mood i prefer the first one (dark gey) but I like the other one too because I like to know what type of button it is just by looking at it's color. So, I would go for the second one but darker like the first one.

I like the design of the buttons and the little space for the shortcuts. It's much more XSIish, which is a lovable interface style.

OTOH I don't like at all the suggestion for checkable buttons as shown in the Lights panel: Affect Diffuse, Affect Specular... Lens Flare, Volumetric Lighting, etc It's ok when they are checked (ON), but when they are OFF I find' it difficult to understand that they are 'checkable buttons', since the only difference from all the other ones is that the little 'box' is on the left instead of on the right. I would leave the text out of the box, just like it is now.

As we are 'rounding' corners, I think it might be nice to have the numerical input with rounded corners as well:
-If they don't have nothing on the sides they would be rounded on both sides, like the Start/End Frame Number
-If they had something on the left they would be rounded on the right, like in the X/Y/Z Position (bottom left)
-If they had something on the right they would be rounded on the left, like in Light Intensity, Nominal Distance, etc

As of interface enhancements I vote for Matt's suggestion for copying color values. That or ANYTHING else. Even a Right Click/Copy would do. I get so mad when I want to copy colors form place to place, like when I want to make a nice gradient and need to copy the Sky Color to the Ground Color.
Another thing would be to change the awkward behaviour of the <> number sliders (those arrows at the side of most input boxes). Most of the time they go too fast or too slow, and if we want to enter exactly 89.5% in the Light Intensity I will move the mouse back and forth a dozen times until I give up and have to enter the value manually. This never worked well for me and I just use it when I need 0 or 100% values. What I would change there would be to Click+left mouse button for small increments and Click+RMB for large ones. I am mentioning this here because I think this belongs in a Interface discussion.

Anyway, thank you for showing the progress to us and let us give our opinion.

Wesball
07-21-2003, 06:47 AM
Guys just want to bring something up.

If things don't start shaping up in a postivie fashion on this discussion.... I SERIOUSLY DOUBT NEWTEK WILL GIVE US ANY OTHER PEEKS AT THEIR WORK-IN-PROGRESS.

Please don't make newtek regret giving us a peek. I want to see more.


:)

Joviex
07-21-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Wesball
Guys just want to bring something up.

If things don't start shaping up in a postivie fashion on this discussion.... I SERIOUSLY DOUBT NEWTEK WILL GIVE US ANY OTHER PEEKS AT THEIR WORK-IN-PROGRESS.

Please don't make newtek regret giving us a peek. I want to see more.


:)


Someone piss in your corn flakes?

Discussion seems to be pretty positive to me. Looks like they got tons of feedback on exactly what they wanted.

Monty
07-21-2003, 08:44 AM
OK, stick with the present UI and just focus on the more important stuff...;) :rolleyes:

Kvaalen
07-21-2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by amorano
Someone piss in your corn flakes?

Discussion seems to be pretty positive to me. Looks like they got tons of feedback on exactly what they wanted.

People have been giving good feedback but many people are taking about the features and what not.

This thread is meant for talking about the interface, not the features.
I think Wesball is right. NewTek showed us previews and asked our opinion, and the thread goes way off topic.
Please keep it on topic, don't make NewTek regret having done this.

Ok, enough about that, now back to topic.

As someone asked earlier is there any chance we can see the other previews that were mentioned? :drool:


EDIT: BTW, no one said that the interface hasn't been changed, you were just asked about the look.

Nemoid
07-21-2003, 09:55 AM
yap, I think that Deuce wanted to hear opinions about the look.

I like the 2nd one, but the gradient and so rounded buttons disturbs me.gradient makes characters less readable.

I DON'T like the first.

for now, current UI is better.

to Matt : I like the customizable options of your UI. since cusomizability is the key, hope there will be this option in Lw[8] too.

Arte
07-21-2003, 09:59 AM
Deuce. Sorry not to have provided what I promised a while back, but I was snowed under and still am.

However I am not that snowed under that I will not try and provide some pointers from my opinion. Firstly you should be doing this with a specialised interfaced designer... and no, I do not accept the workflow over UI argument. I've designed enough embdeded devices and applications to know they are one and the same.

IMO when you are designing the interface, you should try and base it *entirely* around what is happening at the time you are going to be using it and optimising the look according to the task in question. Period!

Widgets and gadgets should be used *only* when they serve a purpose or when they will clarify a situation. The same goes for removing them. The amiga version of LW had two slider gadgets under the RGB colour values e.g. in the surface editor. The moment they were removed, the dual nature of the RGB value became impossible to glean without clicking with the right mouse button. Ignorance or laziness I don't care. The result is the same, most people here did not know the RGB values could be used to change change colour without opening the damned palette window until the tips thread.

What I am saying is SIMPLIFY, forget looking cool and make things easy to understand UI wise, without needing a manual to make things work. Another really obvious example is the envelope buttons needing shift to be pressed to get rid of them. That is anything but obvious.

Finally, please be the first newtek team to actually break the Newtek LW tradition of ignoring important developer style guides. I want to be able to change font and size, to resize everything, to have non mutually exclusive windows... Something Newtek has been doing wrong since the Amiga.

Remember, this is not Winamp or some other "toy." (Winamp does rock btw:)) The look and feel should make the user feel at home with the application, not feel cool. If you can do both, then do both, but the first imo is the priority.

X

kretin
07-21-2003, 10:23 AM
This is my mockup, falling somewhere inbetween the current interface and Deuces posts... This is taking what I think are the best of the old and the new.

http://www.zerogravity.com.au/lw/MockupUI_Jonny.png

Stone
07-21-2003, 10:46 AM
i took the liberty to modify your mockup futher, kretin.

adding the simple change that equally coloured button groups arn't rounded individually.

http://www.peroxide.dk/temp_pictures/MockupUI_Jonny_modified.png

/stone

peterpro
07-21-2003, 10:50 AM
i personally like the bottom one,
but i think at this point
lightwaves interface should be totally customizable to colors we would like
even better would be a special custimize screen and a save custom button so users could upload there
setup and suddenly everyone would be sharing
thier color schemes, and setups =)

my two cents.


of course a defualt button is good too.. or like winamps skins thats good too.

Tottebias
07-21-2003, 11:19 AM
It looks pretty nice but yeah..I would prefer if you made LW totally customizable. That way everyone could make it look the way THEY want it.

Fasty
07-21-2003, 11:50 AM
Awww where's the undockable windows? Here's hoping... :love:

robinson
07-21-2003, 12:20 PM
What do you think about something like that ?
Where did I steal the design ? hehe… :p
The colours are from the stolen design, so I didn’t changed them.

Just a few Ideas…

- if you click on the dark grey area (to the right of Tools) the menu could change to Tools etc… or whatever. “I don’t know if some of you know discreet paint or effects”
- or you can grab the “menus” on this grey area (undockable) and move it around to a different position, you know these floating menu stuff !

freerider
07-21-2003, 12:31 PM
I prefer the second version. I like the lighter color scheme. Graphic applications UIs are getting darker and darker and I think the contrast is just getting way to high to comfortably look at for a long time. It's also downright depressing to look at.

gruvsyco
07-21-2003, 12:56 PM
Here's is an attempt to try and take a few of the many very cool elements of Matt's Lightwave VX interface and apply them to an interface that's not quite ready for a complete overhaul. I hope he doesn't mind too much. I would have really liked to replace all the fonts with something like his too but heck... it's after 4am here.. need to get to bed.

http://66.124.151.154/lw_mockup.jpg

shivacola
07-21-2003, 01:15 PM
all of them sux

Nemoid
07-21-2003, 01:39 PM
find the GruvSyco the more elegant one. relaxing!!
i'd only put a more neutral grey in the menu-toolbar,
and the green in timeline doesn't fit

Odrakir
07-21-2003, 01:41 PM
I don't really give a **it about the shape of the interface. But I think that last one has too bright colors. It's relaxing to look at if for a couple of seconds, but I don't think it'll be so relaxing after a couple of hours.

It should be much darker.

Odrakir.

LNT
07-21-2003, 01:54 PM
gruvsyco's variant is pretty good but it's far too bright
:thumbsup:

isnowboard
07-21-2003, 02:10 PM
I agree...Gruvsyco's winning. What's the prize again?

shivacola
07-21-2003, 02:31 PM
gruvsyco: what about a selection popup ?

faulknermano
07-21-2003, 03:06 PM
my eyes!!! my eyes!!where are my shades?! :cool:

ahh...

Nemoid
07-21-2003, 03:19 PM
Yap, a little darker grey. i think Windows classic grey is the best and would fit well and enhance this kinda good interface.

what? this is not the project Nt is working on ? naahh!!

Sil3
07-21-2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by LNT
gruvsyco's variant is pretty good but it's far too bright
:thumbsup:

Yap, great design but too bright also for me, it keeps distracting me to look at the interface instead of looking into the work area, but nice concept :thumbsup:

VirtualFM
07-21-2003, 03:45 PM
It need color groups for the different functions (a simple tint would do, like Newtek does). As ir is, all in one color, I find it dificult to find what I want in a glance.

tmcbroome
07-21-2003, 03:50 PM
Thank you Duece. I appreciate your sharing with us.

I do not care for the style of the interface that Duece posted. The buttons seem rather amatuer in design to me. The button style as previewed just clutter the interface and make it to visually busy. The current interface is cleaner and more professional. I agree with many others who have stated that the visual presentation, the look and feel, of the the interface is not a problem at this point.

If I had my wish we would have the "vX" interface. I will not comment upon color, as we all know that it can be changed and it is therefore completley useless to talk about it. Nor will I talk about workflow as that is clearly not the intent of this thread and would aslo be a useless endevour here.

I for one am looking foward to 8, I have been using LW since 5.0 and still enjoy it. NT has been taking an iincremental approach with changes and I fully support them in this. Without very large teams with very large budgets and a very large lead time it would be nearly impossible to to just build a new LW from the ground up.

I do see one very good lesson to be learned here for Newtek. No matter what you do with the interface you will have large groups pissing and moaning about it (it's too bright, it's too dark, I hate the boxy buttons, I hate the rounded buttons, blah, blah, blah). You cannot please them all. Thankfully admist the chatter there are actual nuggets of useful observation. NT should continue to do what they have been doing, gather info and make the changes that NT feels are appropriate.

I have also used Maya and loved it, PowerAnimator and enjoyed certain aspects of it, Max and have not enjoyed any aspects of it. I like the Xsi interface but Mirai was hands down the most impressive interface that I have seen demo'd... Mind you I never had a chance to give it a spin to see if actually flowed as well as it seemed.

Okay, that is enough ranting... time to move along...

samartin
07-21-2003, 03:51 PM
I prefer the 1st one, but as someone has stated the gradient even if it is subtle needs to go...

Customisable interfaces/docking needs to be done also so we can get rid of the clutter on dual setups ;)

Kvaalen
07-21-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by samartin
Customisable interfaces/docking needs to be done also so we can get rid of the clutter on dual setups ;)

Please stop talking about features. They want feedback about the look! People here seem to have a real big tendancy to go off topic. :p

Back to topic. :rolleyes:

gruvsyco, that is really nice. I like it but it should have a different collor, something darker. Also, as VirtualFM said, I think it would be better with color groups. :thumbsup:

samartin
07-21-2003, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't say it was off topic, they are wanting feedback about the 2 interfaces they supplied and my two pence worth is docking menu's...

Anyways I'll just get my coat :P

digitalshaman
07-21-2003, 05:09 PM
i was thinking, its a bit strange that they've decided to show some mock-ups of the new interface 2 days before the actual LW 8 (i presume) will be shown at siggraph.

are they going to show the new features with the old UI?

again, its a tad strange...

and just to add my point again, i really really dont like those mockups, cg-matts is much better, although too different.

Mike RB
07-21-2003, 05:24 PM
I think siggraph is exactly that. A tech demo of some of the new features. Any interface changes will most likey be left for later.

Mike

zaam
07-21-2003, 05:31 PM
I don't mind Matt's interface being "too different" at all. Maybe it's a good thing to send a message to the customer base that NT is capable of making some changes beyond "repackaging" its past efforts.

Deuce, as for the 2 shown, I could work with either. BUT, I do like the direction of MAtt's version far better in that it really brings my focus to the work, not the interface. To me, a modern interface should always be avaiable, but never call attention to itself. The rounded buttons are OK in that they provide a small degree of separation to the elements, but they seem to call too much attention to themselves (Hey, Look, . . . I'm a Button!). I think a more streamlined approach will function better, be less intrusive and look less dated.

cg_matt
07-21-2003, 06:03 PM
Oh my God!

Well, I can now exclusively reveal NewTek are taking all this very seriously indeed . . . read on . . .

I've just been contacted by NewTek to take part in a web chat with Lee Stranahan, Deuce and Policarpo to arrange
the finer details of an interface workshop to take place in August, after SIGGRAPH sometime.

As pointed out in this thread creating a new interface from the ground up would be impossible to do for v8, but obviously not for future versions.

The workshop will be serious look at what would be the best way forward to take the LightWave interface for all concerned, and for those
who aren't keen on the vX stuff, don't worry, my involvement is not a sign of NT just implementing it, it will be looked at from a 'what really works'
perspective, and that will include retaining parts of the current interface as it stands, so if you wanna be heard post now!

SIGGRAPH will be a good place to vent any thoughts too.

I can honestly say the activity emerging from NewTek the last few weeks has been very positive indeed, and this is almost too much!

I'm very excitied by the whole prospect, so please keep the comments coming in YOU can help shape your software!

Still shocked by the announcement,
Matt

zaam
07-21-2003, 06:11 PM
Matt —
I'm glad to hear it. As for the negative reactions to your comp, seems like most of it centered around the amount of space taken up by the elements on the lower half of the workspace. Your look and feel seemed to be well received across the board. Good work.

digitalshaman
07-21-2003, 08:00 PM
hey matt

great to hear your achievment, good to see your hard work payed off.

i'm pretty glad myself actually cos to me it looks like they really need your help. the interface they did is nothing on the style and look of yours.

my only reservaion on your design is that a sudden move to its layout would hurt, but as thats not gonna happen, its all fine and dandy :) (yay ur from the uk too!)

again, well done :)

do me a favour, dont let them make the [8] interface crappy :D

DaveW
07-21-2003, 08:14 PM
I like Kretin's with the button grouping that Stone added. The problem with Matt's is that the toolbar on the left has lots of wasted space and the interface in general would suck for Modeler. I think having dockable panels and/or all panels available within the viewports would be a good compromise between Matt's idea and the current LW interface, and it wouldn't be such a huge leap for current users to get used to. Matt's design is a pretty radical change from LW and I think a lot of people would get upset by it. I remember when 6.0 came out and even though it was an improvement over 5.6 and still looked similar, there were a lot of very unhappy people. A change as radical as Matts would likely piss off a lot of people.

gruvsyco
07-21-2003, 08:15 PM
That's great Matt! :thumbsup:

Tim Deneau
07-21-2003, 08:16 PM
:thumbsup:

recoil
07-21-2003, 08:18 PM
Nice

Nemoid
07-21-2003, 08:19 PM
Great to hear that, matt, :beer:
Lw[8] UI will surely benefit from your work!!!

Miyazaki
07-21-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by StonePXD
i took the liberty to modify your mockup futher, kretin.

adding the simple change that equally coloured button groups arn't rounded individually.
/stone
That`s a great idea. A little nuance but very efficient :thumbsup:
But you need 3 groups of shapes(bottom and top rounded, top rounded bottom linear, bottom rounded top linear).

minus
07-21-2003, 11:09 PM
Great to see cg_matt can add some consulting directly to NewTek here. I personally love his concepts so far..but more importantly it sounds like he knows what he is doing, and what rules to follow which would be put to use to tweak the current LW to give it a more stylish, comfortable, and sexy feel (even if they can't do a re-write completly). I think my main complaint about the examples that Digital_Duce pointed out would be that the rounded buttons just look to heavy / clunky... and it sounds like cg_matt knows why that is.... so it's all good! :thumbsup:

Bytehawk
07-21-2003, 11:12 PM
matt, good to hear this. I sincerely believe you will be a good addition to the LW developement - even if only as a consultant.

bluavenger
07-22-2003, 12:05 AM
Hi Matt, I love your UI but you must change same colors.
The colors are very important for to understand the commands!!!
You could make the principal part in grey dark color with yellow or green for font! Try it!
You could make simple icons, for each big menù ex surface editor or motion mixer !
Bye good luck!!!!!

Facial Deluxe
07-22-2003, 12:18 AM
Congrats Matt, you now have a true challenge :)

KOlson
07-22-2003, 12:31 AM
Completely user configurable please! :)

FB_Turbine
07-22-2003, 12:47 AM
It seems a waste of time to do what appears to be such a slight change to the UI. Change for the sake of change just seems silly to me. I have no problem with a UI change for or derived from improved workflow, but this seems to just be a graphical change.

I do find a I like the solid color a bit more then the brush metal, though the rounding of the button's seems to use up more space, without a clear benefit.

I really like Matt's concepts. I think a lot of stuff he's come up with would help with workflow.

In all, I think it's ok, but since I'm happy with the current UI and this just seems to be a little cosmetic change, so I'm not overly excited or disappointed. The only thing I would worry about is the rounding cutting off more text from the buttons then if it was not there.

Chewey
07-22-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt
Oh my God!

Well, I can now exclusively reveal NewTek are taking all this very seriously indeed . . . read on . . .

I've just been contacted by NewTek to take part in a web chat with Lee Stranahan, Deuce and Policarpo to arrange
the finer details of an interface workshop to take place in August, after SIGGRAPH sometime.



Sounds interesting. I'm wondering why you'd include Policarpo in an activity involving interface design. Doesn't he specialize mostly in things that look like bugs?

I'm hoping that someone involved in this endeavor has spent some time using pmg's Messiah and can see why it's a pita to navigate in. Matt's interface looks great but it's still a static image until you test drive it in the real world.

Miyazaki
07-22-2003, 01:48 AM
I wonder because most people seem to adore matt`s design(which is, workflow wise, a good thing :wavey: ) and this seems to make the impression for some people that Newtek hasn`t any good interface designers or doesn`t know enough about their work to make a nice, efficient and lightweight interface.
But didn`t they hired, among other specialists, an interface designer in their last job advertisment?
I think that they have competent and seasoned people for that department *kiss nt`s ass* :)

kretin
07-22-2003, 02:11 AM
Good work StonePXD, I like it alot :)

But WOW, that's fantastic news Matt :applause:

As I was working on my mockup, I was all too aware that it was just a visual change, and not taking into account any functional changes that may be made for LW8, as were the pics Deuce posted.

I'm very excited about Matt being brought into the picture, as we may get some cool functional changes to the interface, which will be great. I love all your ideas of docking/tearing, etc. I can't wait to see what comes out the other end...

rock
07-22-2003, 02:29 AM
Newtek is smart in contacting Matt. He shows care for the LW interface design with heart. You cannot beat that. Matt's design is based on flow and functions - those who worries about screen estate shouldn't be worry because those panes can have an on or off state (either by a small button or hotkey), like intellij software. Intellij is a java integrated development tool which I used regularly at work.

The less mouse clicks, the greater the interface. If you look at the modern interface, the back button is very useful. We should put it where applicable. Microsoft found in their UI research lab that the back button in Microsoft explorer is used over 80% of the time by users. Thus, if you look at the back button, it's larger than the forward button - not by accident.

Maya is the same way - it seems cluttered when you first learn it, but once you learn it, you can recover the screen estate by using the hotbox and/or hotkey. XSI still has the sexiest interface, in my view.

The only thing that you want more is if LW price is cut 30%.

:thumbsup:

gruvsyco
07-22-2003, 02:45 AM
I thought I'd do one last update to my little mockup... not that we don't have enough of them already.

http://66.124.151.154/lw_mockup_dark.jpg

chikega
07-22-2003, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by Chewey
Sounds interesting. I'm wondering why you'd include Policarpo in an activity involving interface design. Doesn't he specialize mostly in things that look like bugs?

You may have missed what Matt wrote concerning Policarpo earlier in the thread (there is a lot to sift through!) The "bug" stuff is just one small part of this sharp graphic designer LW artist. :)

Matt wrote:
"To re-iterate what policarpo has been saying throughout, the vX interface would not be easy to implement in LightWave 8 (and he should know working in Frog Design's interface dept. - I'm not worthy, I'd kill to work there!!!) this is why it was called vX . . . version 10! (It was never a reference to nerve gas!!!)"


Gary E. Chike
http://www.3ddmd.com

minus
07-22-2003, 04:58 AM
:gruvsyco:
Best Yet:thumbsup:

I think something like this is what we are going to end up with.. and I won't be dissapointed if we do.

I can see it in the 3D mags now... "As far as the interface is concerned... Lightwave got just a tad bit cleaner, added to the fact that the Lightwave interface was already one of the cleanest environments to work in.... this is saying a lot. It's a welcome subtle change. One which most users, I'm betting, won't mind."

Of course we'll be able to keep changing the interface colors... it's not that we are gonna be feeling blue all the time..

Miyazaki
07-22-2003, 05:24 AM
@gruvsyco
Nice! Plz post a version with the dark colors of Deuces`first concept.

@Kretin
I think I favor your try with stones modifications. The buttons are less dominante and fit well :beer:
But gruvsyco`s modification also makes a nice impression :). But... what`s that beside the perspective button... A graphic icon! Blasphemy! :shame:

Shade01
07-22-2003, 05:51 AM
@gruvsyco: I love the colors of your interface. I'd take those colors over either one of the proposed colors.

gruvsyco
07-22-2003, 05:58 AM
Trying to incorporate peoples suggestions as I go along here. This is getting me some practice in using Photoshop at least.

http://66.124.151.154/gruv_lw_mockup3.jpg

Miyazaki: I'll give it a try.

Shade01: Thanks man, oddly it looks alot more blue online than it did in Photoshop. I just noticed that when I "Save for web" the entier image changes color.

Psyhke
07-22-2003, 06:00 AM
Miyazaki, here's a darker version of gruvsyco's version of matt's version of the lw interface. (sorry, I'm bored and took the liberty:) ).

http://208.42.96.144/linked_img\lw_vx_dark.jpg


@gruvsyco: do you have your save for web setting set to web safe pallete perhaps? (web safe pallete is not really necessary anymore, you can change it to adaptive to get good results).

jmcalpin
07-22-2003, 06:49 AM
Wow I skip a day and there are even more screen shots.

So far I am liking the mock up gruvsyco and Phyhke have done.

I especially like the one where the buttons are still squared off. I basically looks like a cleaner version of the standard. The slight rounded corner version is also a nice runner up.

Although in both mockups the arrows and other icons also need to be turned white on the dark background.

I think the darker gray works. the window seems to pop out more and like the CGTalk forums the white text is easy to read but kind of blends off into the backgound unless you look for it.

In any of these designs is anyone still thinking of keeping the colored groups? Personally I never used the color coding and made up my own panels without regard to them.

Jason

Facial Deluxe
07-22-2003, 06:56 AM
I like gruvsyco proposal, nice and clean :)

Facial Deluxe
07-22-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Chewey
Sounds interesting. I'm wondering why you'd include Policarpo in an activity involving interface design. Doesn't he specialize mostly in things that look like bugs?



Well, you know, .0 versions often have bugs :rolleyes:

gruvsyco
07-22-2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by Facial Deluxe
I like gruvsyco proposal, nice and clean :)

Thanks Facial Deluxe. I'd like to add a reminder here that I was merely adapting Matt's Interface to the Mockups that Deuce posted. I thought this might be a decent way to transition from current to what could be the nextgen interface.

For anyone interested you can download the .psd files I've been working with here: round (http://66.124.151.154/round.zip) and square (http://66.124.151.154/square.zip)

digitalshaman
07-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Its a proven fact that the human eye does not fully concentrate when 'reading' or using something that is blue, compare to something that has more contrast.

I would avoid blue at all cost, including the same with green.

occassional blue is fine, but not for the font, and not with different shades next to each other.

shivacola
07-22-2003, 11:33 AM
same shit different colour

DSedov
07-22-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by StonePXD
i took the liberty to modify your mockup futher, kretin.

adding the simple change that equally coloured button groups arn't rounded individually.



/stone

Your sentence sound really funy. Kretin in russian means like if you are as stupid as it gets, like "f#cken stuped" or... well there is not really an english equivalent. If there was something more in the chain silly, dumb, stupid ... and kretin.

LOL.... thats funny.. read that sentense again.

chikega
07-22-2003, 01:03 PM
Haha - I thought the same thing too.

A bit OT - but the equivalent of Kretin in English is Cretin which means pretty much the same thing - but is not used very often in the common vernacular. Cretin also is the same word in French and other Romance languages - I believe it's Latin based.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kretin didn't make it's way into the Russian language during Peter the Great's reign - French was the official language of aristocracy. In fact a lot of words in Russian are of French derivation like trottoir(sidewalk), etc...

Sorry about the babbling ... I was a language and linguistics major during my undergraduate years.

"Kak diela?"

cg_matt
07-22-2003, 01:33 PM
:blush:

Thanks for the support guys, I promise you I'll try to do the very best I can (obviously it's not all me, there will many others contributing).

I do have a passion for the human / interface side of computers, when I used to code (very briefly) I spent more time on the ease of use and then the look of my programs, unfortunately my coding skills never amounted to much more than poking around with GadTools and Intuition on the Amiga, fortunately I won't be involved in any coding! But I know HOW I want stuff to work and feel.

As I said on the LightWave3D forum, one of the most important aspects for me is to capture the essense of what makes LightWave FEEL like LightWave, those bits we want to keep, but move the other stuff on to make it more simple and work in a fluid manner.

The best interfaces are ones you don't know are there . . . there is no spoon!!!!

:)

Keiyentai
07-22-2003, 01:59 PM
I like the lighter color ones. I don't like the darker colored ones. I really want to see Matts design in LightWave 8. Is there a release date yet?

Chewey
07-22-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by chikega
You may have missed what Matt wrote concerning Policarpo earlier in the thread (there is a lot to sift through!) The "bug" stuff is just one small part of this sharp graphic designer LW artist. :)

Matt wrote:
"To re-iterate what policarpo has been saying throughout, the vX interface would not be easy to implement in LightWave 8 (and he should know working in Frog Design's interface dept. - I'm not worthy, I'd kill to work there!!!) this is why it was called vX . . . version 10! (It was never a reference to nerve gas!!!)"


Gary E. Chike
http://www.3ddmd.com

Oh, I see. Well I just hope that when things don't go his way on that dev team that he doesn't get peeved and walk off like he did from this forum.

I always liked Lightwave's basic and stripped down spartan interface. I think a lot of legacy users are going to be put off by the rearranging of things especially if it looks like it's just activity posing as progress. My concerns for Lightwave have never included the interface.

samartin
07-22-2003, 02:51 PM
That was a tad b!tchy, I think he still peruses these forum's, just doesn't partake in discussions. Maybe he's found a forum what suits his needs now, can't say I blame him from time to time...

I think a new interface could really be justified if it was a major re-write, I get the impression it's not, oh well number 9 maybe, but it's still a joy to use for stills...

cg_matt
07-22-2003, 02:52 PM
Chewey - who walked off the forum? I've never been anywhere, I do check the LightWave3D forum more often though!

yog
07-22-2003, 02:59 PM
CG-Matt
Chewey was referring to Policarpo. Quite an unfair comment I thought :shame:

freedik
07-22-2003, 03:53 PM
Oh no, they are making those win XP style buttons and stuff. One thing I really liked about LW so far was its neat and compact interface... Take 3ds max as a comparison rofl. And it's not because I'm so much used to current style, I've been using LW only few months.

Besides, I just hate win XP style, for no reason :P

Miyazaki
07-22-2003, 05:40 PM
@gruvsyco + Psykhe
Fine, looks good to me :)

erikals
07-22-2003, 05:55 PM
I like all the designs, but fonts must be readable. If it's too little contrast between the font and the background your eyes will get tired of reading after only a couple of hours.

Several Layout undos in LW8? :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:
I'm happy already :)

Chewey
07-22-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by yog
CG-Matt
Chewey was referring to Policarpo. Quite an unfair comment I thought :shame:

I must have forgot that even though he's no longer here, we're still expected to kiss his butt.

My bad...

ghopper
07-22-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Chewey
I must have forgot that even though he's no longer here, we're still expected to kiss his butt.

My bad...

To be honest, why did he have to make an official statement, rather than just leaving the forum. Was it because of self profileration, i.e. to boost his ego ? Did he want to see how many people would cry for him: "Oh, you're my LW hero, please don't leave, we'll kick CIM if that makes you stay ..."

Rather than just quitting he could have stayed and make this a better forum again or something.

Anyway, sorry if this comes across very negative, but somehow I'm not very happy at the moment. I've preordered LW8, I was really looking forward to it.

But now reading this thread, seeing how NT are going forward with the development of the UI, inviting UI enthusiasts to have some say, reading that NT had some internal company issues that influenced the development of LW, doesn't really paint an image of a professional, organized company. After all I'm somehow investing in this company.

Shouldn't NT hire some professional UI designers or even LW experts who have been using this tool since the beginning, rather than UI enthusiasts who know how to use Photoshop ?

Anyway, these are just my current feelings and I hope everything will turn out for the best of LW / NT and its future.

Let's see what SIGGRAPH brings.

Flywaver
07-22-2003, 09:32 PM
For what it is worth everyone, Policarpo is a professional UI designer for frog design and has worked on building applications from the ground-up with a high degree of consideration on workflow and usability. Go and check out the kind of work they do over where he works. http://www.frogdesign.com :applause:

Cheers!

ghopper
07-22-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Flywaver
For what it is worth everyone, Policarpo is a professional UI designer for frog design and has worked on building applications from the ground-up with a high degree of consideration on workflow and usability. Go and check out the kind of work they do over where he works. http://www.frogdesign.com :applause:

Cheers!

Do you know what programs they are ? I would really like to see how they look like.

As far as I know Policarpo's background was print design and recently he's been getting into UI ?

It's true that frogdesign is a holistic design company and does UI design as well, so maybe NT should get in touch directly with frogdesign - but I think UI design is very expensive.

Anway, all I don't want to see is that NT just want to change the UI for the sake of it, making it look more "eyecandy". If it is going to be more "eyecandy", please give us an option to switch back to the original LW theme - that's all I'm asking for regarding the UI look and feel.

Flywaver
07-22-2003, 10:07 PM
Well, from talking with him in the past, he's worked on stuff for Microsoft Media Player, automobile navigation systems, custom browsers, OS's, and so much more. He's been with frog for 6 years as a UI designer. Print is just another area he specializes in. :)

UI redesigns are expensive...he quoted me some prices. Ouch! :scream:

Cheers!

ghopper
07-22-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Flywaver
Well, from talking with him in the past, he's worked on stuff for Microsoft Media Player, automobile navigation systems, custom browsers, OS's, and so much more. He's been with frog for 6 years as a UI designer.


That's good to hear. Just hope that we will have the option to switch back to the old interface, just in case the final UI design won't be much better than the ones displayed here.

Flywaver
07-22-2003, 10:22 PM
Yeah...would be nice to have a sort of Windows Blind utility where we could easily change the skin. Heck MoviePack has this feature built-in, you choose a skin, click apply and it instantly changes to the selected one! Of course they were all ugly! hehe :thumbsdow

Cheers!

Memodin
07-22-2003, 10:35 PM
Matt's designs are the best :buttrock:
I didn't like the alpha version interface of lw8. I hope there is going to be a good and radical interface at siggraph.

Maybe we can take a poll about the interfaces soon.

geoff3dnz
07-22-2003, 11:55 PM
My vote is for gruvsyco's second concept - damn slick. Nothing extraneous, just simple and elegant.

:)

Chewey
07-23-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by ghopper
To be honest, why did he have to make an official statement, rather than just leaving the forum. Was it because of self profileration, i.e. to boost his ego ? Did he want to see how many people would cry for him: "Oh, you're my LW hero, please don't leave, we'll kick CIM if that makes you stay ..."

Rather than just quitting he could have stayed and make this a better forum again or something.

Anyway, sorry if this comes across very negative, but somehow I'm not very happy at the moment. I've preordered LW8, I was really looking forward to it.

But now reading this thread, seeing how NT are going forward with the development of the UI, inviting UI enthusiasts to have some say, reading that NT had some internal company issues that influenced the development of LW, doesn't really paint an image of a professional, organized company. After all I'm somehow investing in this company.

Shouldn't NT hire some professional UI designers or even LW experts who have been using this tool since the beginning, rather than UI enthusiasts who know how to use Photoshop ?

Anyway, these are just my current feelings and I hope everything will turn out for the best of LW / NT and its future.

Let's see what SIGGRAPH brings.

I was thinking along the same lines when the "announcement" was made.
A bit of hubristic melodrama I thought.
:shrug:

I'd vote for hirng a pro gui group to have at the interface if they really feel they must change the furniture around.

cg_matt
07-23-2003, 02:06 AM
Policarpo is a pro' gui designer, frog design are held in very high regard in that field too, in order to work there you have to be pretty damn good!

Chewey
07-23-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt
Policarpo is a pro' gui designer, frog design are held in very high regard in that field too, in order to work there you have to be pretty damn good!

Good at what? I see they've created a few industrial designs and a Windows Media Skin or two but I see little there that confirms that they're the right folks for the lightwave gui rework. Maybe I'm just missing the correct link?

cg_matt
07-23-2003, 02:39 AM
doesn't matter that they're windows media skins, it's the process that's important.

newtek are heading this (obviously) they're not about to let things get out of hand if they feel the direction is going somewhere they feel is fundamentally wrong.

the v8 interface as far as I know has been designed in-house at newtek, so any changes to the UI in v8 will be made by them, not any of us, I guess we'll have to wait for SIGGRAPH to see.

I wouldn't get too worried, if this thread is anything to go by NT will be asking for user feedback on any future changes to the UI anyway, so everyone can have their say.

matt

Chewey
07-23-2003, 02:49 AM
More like it's the talent and experience with gui design that's important. :)

Once Siggraph hits and LW8 get's looked at, the discussion will move far from the topic of round versus square buttons and new improved lemon scented gradients, etc.
:thumbsup:

MadMax
07-23-2003, 06:21 AM
I must admit the responses so far have been pretty amusing. It seems like everyone things that it's only a new interface and nothing more, even though it has been said numerous times that isn't the case.

Anyway......

VX, hate it.

The first image Deuce posted, my first thought was Digital Fusion. I like DF, this look doesn't bother me.

To the people who say the rounded edges are distracting or this interface gets in your way and similar comments, try decalf.

kretin
07-23-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Miyazaki
But... what`s that beside the perspective button... A graphic icon! Blasphemy! :shame:
?? Do you mean the icons on the top right of the viewports? Have you looked at Layout recently? :p

I also like stones & gruvsyco's redo...

Originally posted by DSedov
Kretin in russian means like if you are as stupid as it gets, like "f#cken stuped" or... well there is not really an english equivalent. If there was something more in the chain silly, dumb, stupid ... and kretin.
Yeah, unfortunately it's all true... :shrug:

CTRL+X
07-23-2003, 07:55 AM
What Psyhke did with that darker interface!!! thats it!!!!

I tell ya NT that is classic Lightwave look,, Functional and classic and modern!!!!\\


trust me.. take a good look at it,, thats LW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THAT WORKS!!!!!

eben
07-23-2003, 08:13 AM
whatever the lw interface will be, please think to our eyes, we're all getting older every second:hmm:


Originally posted by DSedov
Kretin in russian means like if you are as stupid as it gets, like "f#cken stuped" or... well there is not really an english equivalent. If there was something more in the chain silly, dumb, stupid ... and kretin.
in french too, sorry...:)

regards,

Eben

cg_matt
07-23-2003, 01:19 PM
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg)

Kvaalen
07-23-2003, 01:36 PM
That looks really cool!!! I really like it!

I hope we will still be able to customize the colors.

One thing I don't like is that the check boxes look a little too small.
Also what is the use of the space after the three color values?

Is this similar to the fianl look?

BTW, you forgot the Dynamics and Rigging tabs :p

Nemoid
07-23-2003, 02:12 PM
I like your UI, Matt, but i find it little too
"violet" in the grey tones

hope isn't my monitor!! :eek:

keep on with the good work though :thumbsup:

bluavenger
07-23-2003, 02:28 PM
Ehi MAtt great work, but the color of buttons are too dark, can you to use pastel or candy colors with gradient?
For the select bottoms look the Kretin UI is nice!
I do not like imput text brown is better light gray!!! :)
For the big windows could use the side panel as the Mac UI Aqua!!!
For check and envelope button you cuold to use round forms!!
See me example for colors!!

Bye :)

cg_matt
07-23-2003, 02:50 PM
Kvaalen

if this was the real thing (which it ain't, I'm just playing!) all colours / intensity of colours would be configurable.

checkboxes : this is a preference of mine, I prefer cuter smaller gadgets, you would be able to click on the associated text to toggle too (like in the current LW) so it's not like you have to aim for that little box!

space after the colour values is to make the box line up with the one below, makes the interface neater, it's totally cosmetic (most LW panels do this now anyway).

Nemoid / bluavenger

as I say, _if_ it was the real thing I would like to think that every colour can be changed by the user, these are just ones I felt looked calming and cool, but each to their own an all that!!!

matt

Flywaver
07-23-2003, 02:53 PM
Like MadMax I like the DF-type interface as I am now using DFX+ and I really got fond of it! :buttrock:

I think that there will never be 100% of us that will like one interface...there are as many good criterias that there are people on this planet!

So far I'd love if we could switch between the 7.5 and the DF like one...hey maybe even a combustion style where we can adjust brightness/contrast! In combustion I set the contrast at 1.20, that way text is a tad more visible. :buttrock:

Cheers!

Nemoid
07-23-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by cg_matt
Kvaalen

if this was the real thing (which it ain't, I'm just playing!) all colours / intensity of colours would be configurable.

checkboxes : this is a preference of mine, I prefer cuter smaller gadgets, you would be able to click on the associated text to toggle too (like in the current LW) so it's not like you have to aim for that little box!

space after the colour values is to make the box line up with the one below, makes the interface neater, it's totally cosmetic (most LW panels do this now anyway).

Nemoid / bluavenger

as I say, _if_ it was the real thing I would like to think that every colour can be changed by the user, these are just ones I felt looked calming and cool, but each to their own an all that!!!

matt

thanx for replying Matt, and for your "playing", wich makes us see some sort of preview.
the calming look of your UI is yet there, and comes with the use
of characters, distances, smaller gadgets and negative space.:thumbsup:

i think the greys are good because they're some neutral, so using them coupled with some careful color in minor things can be great.

a coloured violet(or whatever colour) grey dominance in the whole UI can be disturbing to eyes wich have to build textures to get the right look to surfaces color.

thats only my personal opinion though.

however, in every case i'd avoid over all to use gradients at all. I find them some disturbing ( much more than a general color)

anieves
07-23-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by cg_matt
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg)

Wow, I'm gone for a few days and when I get back find many surprises!

First of all I think It is super cool from Newtek to share this kind of things, never seen anybody else show this sort of thing before.

Second, congrats Matt, all your hard work paid off:thumbsup:

Third, this comp looks super cool!!!! :applause:

If ppl. spend some time looking at the VX project then they will realize that it doesn't have to be bright or dark or viewports too small or too large...

keep up the good work Matt and Newtek. Just one week till sig 03

LNT
07-23-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by cg_matt
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg)

yeah,I must say this is getting close to what I'd like to see

I'd even go as far as to say that this mockup looks more sophisticated than XSI's interface buttons,xsi's are too round and there's also that resolution dependancy everyone hates

but xsi has great lloking panels now with very stylish colour pickers and gradient bars...worth checking out as a reference/inspiration

keep up the great work!:thumbsup:

HowardM
07-23-2003, 04:02 PM
you guys are so hilarious! do you really think nice colors will get a better review and sell more LW?

ok, so after days of people making their own creations, do you get it NT?
LET THE USER MAKE THEIR INTERFACE! Give use the nice 7.x look (without metal) and allow us to change graphics, move locations, etc....make a UIDesigner2000 plugin....

Ok, thats settled...so can we move on?

Great...1st things first, dockable panels.....and of course envelopes for everything!

:beer:

LNT
07-23-2003, 04:53 PM
:rolleyes: http://www.aoikenso.net/ap/cg/diss.gif :shrug:

how does it feel being so excited about yourself?

MadMax
07-23-2003, 05:09 PM
wow man, I think it would look better if it looked like a Star Trek LCARS display.. :)

Jockomo
07-23-2003, 06:14 PM
Personally I am in favor of ditching the 2D interface all together and giving us a box that plugs in with buttons and knobs, kinda like the switcher for the toaster.


http://www.omroep.nl/nps/radio/supplement/01/1118/moog-modular.jpg

;)

Facial Deluxe
07-23-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Jockomo
Personally I am in favor of ditching the 2D interface all together and giving us a box that plugs in with buttons and knobs, kinda like the switcher for the toaster.


http://www.omroep.nl/nps/radio/supplement/01/1118/moog-modular.jpg

;)
At least a decent interface:applause:

cg_matt
07-23-2003, 08:48 PM
LOL! That's it! What was I thinking!!! There is was right under my nose!!! :)

dark_lotus
07-23-2003, 09:35 PM
Ok well, I'm not the world's biggest fan of the new look, I have been doing reseach for a month or so on 3D App UI's. I have also been working on a lightwave UI, and as such, i really think that the new one is a step in the wrong direction.

Anyway, if my little project isn't finished in time, i'll put the notes up on the internet, in the meantime, i was hoping for something more like this:

(from my design) oh and not this big of course ;)
http://homepage.mac.com/dark_lotus/button.jpg

pblacklock
07-23-2003, 09:42 PM
hey dark_lotus,

that's a great idea the shortcuts on the buttons, love your designs, NEWTEK listens up.


Paul

LWD
07-23-2003, 10:06 PM
Despite the comments ranging from praise to near suicide notes, I gotta say that the current interface is fine, the tools matter the most.

Dave Adams
Features/Digital Domain

MadMax
07-23-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by pblacklock
hey dark_lotus,

that's a great idea the shortcuts on the buttons, love your designs, NEWTEK listens up.


I guess it would be pointless to let you know that Lightwave already DOES have shortcuts on the butons?

Para
07-23-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
I guess it would be pointless to let you know that Lightwave already DOES have shortcuts on the butons?

And I guess it was meant as a joke or some sort of sarcasm :)

3DDave
07-24-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg)

Throw another one out with white text. Dark on dark is too hard on the eyes. Otherwise it's nice.

pblacklock
07-24-2003, 12:45 AM
yes it was sarcasm, not at dark_lotus but at newtek.

if they really wanted our opinion, why didn't they conduct a survey and keep everyone opinions, suggestions or ideas private. in this professional manner, no jabs between fellow wavers and everyone still respects each other at the end of the day.

i'm sure everyone has positive things to bring to the table. go ahead newtek hold a survey to get everyone feedback, if only a short page survey that contains favorite colors, shape or texture of our buttons and implementation with our current tools.

slam flame wars is bad for business NT.


Paul

Fasty
07-24-2003, 01:04 AM
I could get VERY used to working with any of the interfaces shown by Matt so far :drool:

ngrava
07-24-2003, 02:31 AM
Hey guys,

I guess I'll chime in too. First of all, so far, all the designs look fine to me. But that's because I don't really care to much about whether or not the buttons are round or square or dark or light. Either way is fine with me. In the end I'll just have to get used to whatever they pick anyway.

The thing I do care about is the interactivity of the software. Like, Are functions in the panels laid out in an obvious and intuitive way? Do the buttons give you any feedback before you even click on them? Do they light up when you click on them so it's more obvious what you just did ( and to help you remember where to find them again) and so on.

I agree too that NT should spend more time in the R&D dept. developing new features then in the graphic studio making things look pretty. But if you don't put any thought into feature arrangement, organization and interactivity, You're just polishing a turd. ;) A good example of this in my opinion is Motion Designer. Even if you read the manual, you still going to have problems the first few times because it's not obvious how to use it. There's virtually no layout and the results don't seem to reflect the changes made. A better user interface could have cleared a lot of this up.

I think that's one of the main things I like about Matt's original VX designs; he took on the usability of lightwave. Not just the look of the buttons.

-=GB=-

LWD
07-24-2003, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by pblacklock
yes it was sarcasm, not at dark_lotus but at newtek.

if they really wanted our opinion, why didn't they conduct a survey and keep everyone opinions, suggestions or ideas private. in this professional manner, no jabs between fellow wavers and everyone still respects each other at the end of the day.

snip

slam flame wars is bad for business NT.


Paul

Looks like they really want opinions.
The jabs between "fellow wavers" are their own responsibility.
This is a great way to get reaction to the design *and* figure out who to tune out. Newtek isn't really responsible for people respecting each other on CGtalk, are they?

Dave Adams
Features/Digital Domain

HowardM
07-24-2003, 06:02 AM
JAB JAB!...just for old times sake! :)

Hi Dave, how ya been!?
:wavey:

Facial Deluxe
07-24-2003, 06:53 AM
Dark Lotus, I like the design :) love the button man :)

cg_matt
07-24-2003, 11:37 AM
this is how I understand it so far . . .

v8 will have some workflow issues addressed, a whole bunch of new features and sporting a new look, but nothing too outrageous, just enough to know you're using v8.

after that, who knows!

scythian
07-24-2003, 01:30 PM
LightWave 8 -- Interface Early Concept

The look and feel of the interface/workplace is important.

There is a slick procedural style to both LW8 UI early concept.
Reminiscent of Shake and Digital Fusion's procedural approach to compositing. The button style also suggests Avid's xpress dv UI.

Prefer the top (dark grey and brass) UI style.

Will the new Layout provide a radical approach to the 21st century cg pipeline? or simply a middle-aged make over of old processes?

The stylistic inflection towards the compositing pipeline seems promising if it alludes to LW8 offering technical advancements.

Miyazaki
07-25-2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg)
Yes Matt, that`s it. My new fav :buttrock:
Just more contrast for the strings and it`s perfect :applause:

UserDelta
07-25-2003, 01:59 AM
heres mine for fun and fuel.

http://www.tittiwinkle.com/temp/uim.gif

BurrowingDuck
07-25-2003, 02:13 AM
i dont see whats wrong with the old interface :shrug:
it doesnt look like theres anything new here to me

DigiLusionist
07-25-2003, 02:43 AM
User Delta, the notches you have on the dropdown menu bars are a neat touch.

geoff3dnz
07-25-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by cg_matt
More fuel for the fire . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2_tbn.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vX_Overlay_2.jpg) While this is a fun thread, I hope that cosmetic changes aren't getting a disproportionately high priority... (I doubt it).

Anyway, this is probably my favourite for now, but I'd lose the reverse gradient on the unactive tabs (shadows & objects).

Whatever they come up with for the interface, this is what I want to see: ;)

DADDYGOODY
07-25-2003, 04:02 AM
I like the first one it looks fery sweet.

AndréNozawa
07-25-2003, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by bluavenger
Ehi MAtt great work, but the color of buttons are too dark, can you to use pastel or candy colors with gradient?
For the select bottoms look the Kretin UI is nice!
I do not like imput text brown is better light gray!!! :)
For the big windows could use the side panel as the Mac UI Aqua!!!
For check and envelope button you cuold to use round forms!!
See me example for colors!!

Bye :)
That`s a nice interface.You must be PROUD of it.:p

AndréNozawa
07-25-2003, 05:47 AM
P.R.O.U.D Interface

Miyazaki
07-25-2003, 06:06 AM
@UserDelta
I like yours, too :beer:

Shade01
07-25-2003, 06:29 AM
@Andre: Is that the interface for lesbians and gays? :p





j/k


Nice layout