Project Rain Storm

[Kageko]

It's a nice motif. I really love the dark sky, although you should work at it a little more. Especially the bolt seems set arbitrarily.

Take photo references for your background. Watch attentivly how colour and contrast change the farther the "objects" are. The mountains are never that blue at that distance! The tree doesn't satisfy.

I strongly recommend to use a reference for the women. There's everything wrong on her!

If don't have much stamina, you should better just draw ONE thing in ONE picture. For example you could first concentrate on mountains, instead of painting mountains, trees AND women! It's easier to paint things you have alrready drawn/painted/studied before!

[rluto77]

Thanks for the comments. Although the one thing I don't fully understand is that you say that everything is wrong with the woman. Could you or someone else be more specific? I know there are problems with the chest area that I am still working out and the face isn't complete.

But otherwise I wouldn't go as far as to say that everything is wrong with her. I need something more specific for the critique to be beneficial.

[Kageko]

Well, imagine her sceleton! Then take a look at her shoulder, her arms and hands, her face! I can't describe it in words, you really have to SEE it.

Of course, there isn't everything wrong at her. I can identify your painting as a woman. But what quality do you await for your finished work? Are you fine with it when you can identify mountains, trees and a woman? In this case, you're already done.

Here's a raw sketch (not quite correct) to show you what I mean.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/sonnenkraut/rluto77.jpg

[rluto77]

Im still not certain what your getting at. Her body is turned which is why her right shoulder is not as pronounced as her left shoulder.

I can see where maybe some of the proportions are a little off but again, I just don't see anything glaringly wrong with her body or shape.

As I said before, this is the WIP forum and her body is nowhere near finished so more work is still to be done. I'm just not sure what the problem is still.

[Mboehman]

You have good start but I also strongly suggest you get a reference or a model because the only thing that cues me in that she is a woman is her chest area. I really like the idea for this picture and I like the background a lot. It has a lot of potential but the woman needs work.
You wanted specifics so here's what I see:
Her shoulders are misshapen. They go up too high and are too rounded.
Her body is not turned in the direction that her face and arm are so it looks unnatural.
She doesn't have any waist or hips. She's a woman so she needs curves. In general she looks too thick.
Her arms are too short. I think you are trying to portray foreshortening but you can't tell. Foreshortening is a really hard concept to master. Most artists have difficulty with it, myself included. To capture it correctly, get someone to pose for you or imitate the position yourself so you can see what the arms would look like. I'm sure with some work you can get it to look great.
That is my humble opinion and I hope it helps.
Good luck!

[rluto77]

Thank you that is all very helpful and all of the things you pointed out are things that I have been working on.

I will post an update soon with some changes. THANKS!!!

[rluto77]

Here is a (admittedly) quick reshaping of her body and arms. Please let me know if I'm heading in the right direction. I had my wife pose for me but am still having difficulty with some of the angles.

ALSO her bust area needs some work, its sticking to far to the left, I need to reign it in a bit and focus on getting that left shoulder corrected.

Please let me know what you think.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5753/rainstorm21k.jpg

[Mboehman]

I see that you have changed the waist and it looks better. However, I think there are too many things to fix and redraw so it probably would be easier to just restart the woman from scratch and redo her the second time from a photo ref. But it is ultimately your call.
Good luck!

[DArcy1]

Hi

MBoheman is correct, it would probably be easier to start the figure fresh. This site has lots and lots of photoref for artists and I'm sure you could find something close to what you want: http://characterdesigns.com/index.php?sitepage=photosets

Cheers

D'Arcy

[rluto77]

Thanks for that link! Great references on there.


SO, I figured that I would give the current figure one more shot and try to get this right after having my wife pose for me a few times. I think this new shape is a definite improvement. Overall the entire upper body was re-worked. ITS NOT PERFECT at all.

Also, the lighting is just slapped on as well as the right side shoulder where I haven't worked on the lighting yet and am still working on the shape of the right shoulder.

Let me know what you think.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1858/rainstorm22b.jpg

[MichaelZHsee]

hi,im Mic here,after awhile looking at the piece,i kinda visualize it in my head and it has a potential to be a great art work,perhaps fine tuning it would be a lil tough and i kinda agreed with what Mboehman said about reworking it as the character's proportion is off.maybe i can offer a few tips,i usually draft it out with some rough outlines,wont shade it until im satisfied with the characters proportion,face and the overal composition.after when im done with the sketch,ill then shade it with grey tones to get the contrast and value,also not forgetting where the light coming from,the highlights and shadows.then only i start playing with the palettes and color schemes by applying an overall ambient tone ontop of it and bare in mind that the grey scale piece will left untouch,but u can always paint over on to it with a new layer.u can always play with the ''new fill and adjustment layer'',i always play around with the color balance,curves,brightness and contrast to get the results i want,also the layer blending mode comes in pretty handy as well.

perhaps ill do a quick tutorial for ya,ill post it here if you dont mind,my intention is souly on helping you out to make this a better piece:)

[rluto77]

I figured I would just keep plugging away with my current model form. I have also worked a bit on the foreground and the tree along with the lighting on the figure and dress.

If you think its coming along well, please let me know, I'm getting a bit discouraged. Also, please let me know what still sucks so I can fix it! Lol...

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8405/rainstorm23.jpg

[Sammy]

don't be discouraged. You are getting very important feedback here on your work. Sometimes it's hard to get criticism from complete strangers.

The trick is not to be too precious about your art. What I mean is don't be afraid to start over. I would guess that this is the most fundamental fear to get over as an artist. When studying animation we had a sign up in our class with the 'Nike' symbol and the text "Just REDO it". hehe.

If you are faced with starting a figure over from scratch don't think of the time you've spent up to this point as a 'waste', you are learning. You have an opportunity to improve your understanding of the human figure and make your painting stronger than you ever imagined. So stick with it even if the comments and advise hurt a bit, k?

So, put the background to the side for a while and focus on the figure.

I agree with the criticism you've had so far on it. There are several issues with the figure that are distracting. Reference is an often overlooked aspect of starting a painting. Folks starting out often think the 'master' just paints out of their head. In fact, they are using reference you don't see. And in the case where the 'master' does paint from their head, they are relying on years and years of using reference to the point where it's become muscle memory.

You have some homework. Sketch out the woman using primative shapes. Cylinders for her arms, spheres, cubes ... leave the clothing and all the details out of the figure and focus on how all the parts of her body are posed. Post that and we can help you along.

I'm regularly in awe of the talent on these forums - you are among true masters here. Just be patient and never be afraid to start over as part of the learning experience.

[MichaelZHsee]

sammy is right.u dont have to feel discourage at all,i do get harsh feedbacks and comments at works too when dealing with some projects.i read it somewhere where artists are considered egoistic when being critisize ,however,those feedbacks makes us grow.:)
i did a small tutorial base on your painting with some notes along each and every progress i have made.i hope this will help improve your painting:)sorry for my english for its not my main language
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9092/rainstormrepaintbreakdo.jpg

[sweetravin]

I've followed the progress of the painting and it's great to see other artists helping to bring an art peice to its full potential. I find one of my biggest issues is I hate to erase my babies= being it a face or hand that I spent forever on- but in the end it makes us grow as artists- but oh so hard to do. Micheals post has been so helpful. It's great to see the process of how other artists work. I look forward to seeing how this evolves. I'm excited about how helpful everyone has been- looks like a great community. Rluto You have a great concept and it's coming along. Im exciting to see how you use the advise you've been given.

[rluto77]

I definitely can take advice, I'm here to learn :) and I have tried making a few adjustments to the figure but in all honesty I feel no reason to ditch the current figure and start it again simply because I made many changes after having my wife pose and that is pretty much exactly how she looked so if it is not proportionally correct you may want to take that up with her! :p lol.

Anyway, it is a portrait of her, for her, so if her body doesn't look right, oh well, thats the way it really is...

I have been working on her dress a little, and the foreground / background but have been pretty sick lately and haven't had much time. I'll get cracking on this again soon and should have another update by tomorrow or friday.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4844/rainstorm25.jpg

[DArcy1]

You may have made changes but really, there are still anatomy issues here - I used to think when I drew from life it was just going to be correct but in truth any picture is only as good as your hand's abilities to capture the model and it's really hard to see your own mistakes :hmm:.
I would strongly suggest taking a picture of her and posting it as your reference so we can help you with the subtle corrections. If you aren't willing to do that, at least sketch her underlying anatomy over top of your painting so we can see what you think is there and help you adjust it.

Cheers

D.

[rluto77]

This pic is not the exact one I used but is very close. Only difference is that in this pic her shoulders are turned a bit more than the one I used.

If you guys and gals can point out exactly whats wrong so I can correct it and be done with the anatomy side of this pic I would GREATLY appreciate it and I REALLY appreciate all the help so far, you people are the best!

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2010/usinge.jpg

[Draigr]

I took a little time to draw over your image. There's plenty of problems.
Firstly, that dress is wide, it looks like she's bending he knees quite a bit.
Secondly, the approximate height is 7 -8, you've got 5 in there, and I doubt that another two are out of the picture.
The slope to the breast makes her look... wierd.
The breasts and stuff make her look triangular. Like a buff hunk, rather than the usual hourglass of a woman. You might have gone off of your wife, but the picture shows a woman considerably younger. A little bit of consideration of age and it's effects on the body might be useful.

One comparison shows the reference interposed overthe actual image. It's quite different. So hard to position right.

The other is just what I noticedin rainbow ink.

[rluto77]

I see what you mean on a few points, especially about her not being proportionally tall enough. I have tried correcting this along with some things around the bust, and even some of the background elements on the right side.

Although I think she seems a bit tall, maybe its just me... Also I think the arm on the right needs to be moved a bit to the left (her left arm).

If you could please point out where there are still anatomy problems I will appreciate it and do my best to correct them.

Thanks again to everyone, you are all a great help!

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3460/rainstorm27.jpg

[DArcy1]

Hi

I did a quick paintover, but what I did was trace your wife's picture, and overlay that on top of your painting. I rotated it a bit because in your painting she is leaning forward more than in your reference photo. I focused mostly on the centerline from her neck, between her breasts and down to her belly button, and then adjusted your sketch a bit. I ignored the hand on *our* right, your reference photo shows a huge hand but that is a camera focal length effect. I also moved her head down, and moved her eyes down a bit on her head

It's seriously not perfect, but I think it shows her body better ( I gave her a slightly smaller waist just for the hourglass look)

Hope that helps

D.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3617884491_a55d7c2af3_o.jpg

[rluto77]

Ahh, a lot of what you did makes sense, her eyes definitely need to come down a bit. I am also going to work on a few things with the torso position as you did in the sketch. I might have something up by later tonight, if not then by tomorrow for sure.

Thanks again.

[rluto77]

Okay so I THINK that it turned out pretty good. Rotated her body, tried to fix the chest and HER right shoulder. I also lowered the eyes and tweaked the size, positioning of the hair a bit. I also modified the dress and actually rotated the entire figure clockwise a bit to reduce the amount of leaning forward she was doing.

The dress still needs work but I would really like some opinions now to see what other anatomy or body size/shape mistakes I've made. In the meantime i'm going to work on the background a bit while I wait.

Thanks again guys, can't tell you enough how helpful you all are.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3074/rainstorm28.jpg

[DArcy1]

Much better !

D.

[rluto77]

Didn't change much on the figure but im tooling around with the sky in the background. Clouds need a lot of work but its getting there...

I'm trying to bring the clouds forward a bit so they are above her head, etc. not just in the distance.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9009/rainstorm31t.jpg

[Draigr]

It's to do with how you put the shadows on the things. I had the same trouble until quite recently. Clouds are a lot harder then they look, you just sorta have to work it out. Once you get it, it seems obvious. Here's two shots that should help you. Panoramic stitches, both of them.
Oh and how does this attachment business work? I can't work out how to actually show the things as a picture. The attachment limit seems to be filling up for me and I don't like separate image hosting.

[MichaelZHsee]

coming along pretty well mate,perhaps,alil more attention on the folds and weaves on her dress(lower portion) also the grass flowing direction on the background should go with the direction of where the hair flows:)
other than that,i think Draigr has mentioned about the clouds.keep it coming mate,i look forward to see it done

[rluto77]

Hi there guys and gals. I have re-worked a bit of the sky and am still tweaking the clouds, also, I should probably mention that I want the sky to look a bit fantastical (if thats a word...) and not necessarily very realistic. I also tweaked the lighting on her face and body a bit including the hands.

Also, I've included a pic of the face so far at 100% size so you can get a better idea of it.

As usual, ANY critiques or comments etc. would be appreciated. (Is it me or does HER left arm seem a bit long?)

THANKS!

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7865/face1s.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/791/rainstorm32.jpg

[rluto77]

Decided to work more on the hair today so I figured I'd throw a quick update up.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5544/face2r.jpg

[DArcy1]

Hi again

Sometimes it's just easier to show than talk; here is an adjustment to her face that I think helps make her more real. I cheated, used Andrew Loomis's template of the ideal female as a multiply layer and then cut and paste. Everything is the same below the nose, except I defined her jawline a bit. Hope it helps.

Cheers

D.

[rluto77]

Finally getting around to posting an update. I feel like the piece is nearing completion. I need to polish a few things:

The dress needs work still
Still not happy with the sky
Foreground needs a bit of work
Tree needs...something
Her right hand isn't done


Anyway, here it is so far:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/791/rainstorm32.jpg

[sweetravin]

You kow what I really love about this piece? There is just so much movement. I feel like there really is a storm coming- I just expect the picture to start animating at any moment.

[vicmonty]

I think anatomy has been covered. On composition, I think you should remove her from the center and bring her to the viewers right edge of the picture. Her left arm brings the eye towards the background with the right arm continuing to bring the viewer towards the background also. Maker her pose a little dynamic. Does she really want me to come with her? Demonstrate her need in her fingers, arms, and hips. The newer pose ref picture you provided is a better pose. I love your effort. You have got a lot of great help on this picture. It's baisically a one on one with 20 teachers. That paintover is priceless. Continue to work. You're definetly improving. Do 2, 5 and 10 min gesture drawings from photos. I like using a magazine. Mags offer a variety of poses. Photo albums work too.

[rluto77]

I started just moving the figure around and I agree completely. I have always felt that the right hand side with the tree just didn't seem right for some reason and moving her to that side a bit has DEFINITELY helped. I don't have time now to post a pic but will have one up within a day or two of the new and improved layout.

Again, thanks for all the help to all of you.

[rluto77]

Okay so I've been doing a lot of tweaking. Moved the figure to the right, shaded and colored the ribbons, worked on the tree, finished the bush on the left (but need to move it closer, looks odd), etc. etc.

I feel like this piece is nearing completion but am not done yet, the right hand is not done along with a few other things.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5985/rainstorm38.jpg

[rluto77]

Okay so I fee like I'm about 95% done with this besides a few small things. I decided to post a link to the full resolution version below. The colors are a bit drab compared to the original but I don't know where else to host it to get the colors right. Any crits are welcome.

Full Resolution Pic (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/6134/rainstorm40.jpg)

[budji]

Her arms have allways the same diameter, you should do them thiner in the elbow zone. And I think their should be some more shadows in her face to give us a depth sensation between the nose and the eyes. I think the face is very planar.

[rluto77]

Wow I am such a slow painter :hmm:...I have been busy with a few things I have going on right now but have been working on this as much as I can. Below is what I would consider it nearly done. I have to work on the lighting on the figure around the face. I also have to tweak the lighting on the grass and vegitation behind her.

Other than that I am just about happy with it. Any crits, comments, suggestion, praise(? lol) would be much appreciated!

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3097/rainstorm46.jpg

[DArcy1]

This has really come a long way; the only thing that really sticks out as a problem is the mountains. Everyyhing about them is so soft and fuzzy, they look like clouds themselves (especially since your clouds have much sharper edges). The mountains definitely need some sharp angles and planes, like these ones.

Cheers

D.


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/palerider_2008/mountains.jpg

[rluto77]

Im glad you reminded me to sharpen the mountains up :eek:. I remember planning on doing that a while back but I must have gotten distracted and just completely forgot about doing it. I haven't even paid attention to the mountains for over a month so looking at them with a critical eye now they obviously need some definition and work.

I'll post an update sometime tonight.

Thanks as always.

[Draigr]

*Disclaimer. The following is for you to take or leave as you wish. It is your image and I am simply suggesting what I believe would improve it greatly. I do not intend to offend.*

I would not consider that picture to be even close to finished if I was doing it. And I'm new to the whole digital painting business.
Here's why:

- The Cloth rendering is a big problem for me. And always has been. Too many ripples. It just doesn't look right. Smooth out the ripplies, just have some major ones, do some research, check out pictures and textiles. Believe it or not, that's important, because different textiles ripple differently and so on. You can do a general study and just aim to make it look like a dress, not a... I have no idea what that cloth is..., though.

- Her torso looks tanked. Seriously. It's somewhat jarring coz it makes her look like she's trying to shove her chest in our faces at the same time as being her natural position. Take a look at earlier paintovers, you might see what I mean. If you want further clarification, I can draw over in detail and give you pointers for the much needed overhaul.

*Apologies for crude analogy. That's just how it looks to me.*

I'd recommend a rework of the breasts and upper torso. It looks too high, and... just strange. I probably should have told you that before. Pose may need a bit of tweaking as a result...

- Her face could be a lot better, the left hand side of the mouth (from her perspective) is kinda kinky. And since there's no cheek fold, she's not just smiling.

You also need to add more detail in general, add some wrinkles around the eyes and frown lines on the forehead. Note, frown lines appear in everybody, they just emulate the repeated movements in that area.

- The hair needs a lot more work. Unless you were planning on it being naturally fizzy/curly, you may want to make it flow a bit better, bit less streams. Unless you like dreadlocks...

Nevertheless, colour scheme could be better. As in. You've got base colours, now add some more. Take a look at your own hair, it ain't one colour. It's lots. Good hair will have that. Get in all nitty gritty and take some time to zoom in and draw in the strands. Have several colours. I should have some hair tuts lying around somewhere.

- Skin colour needs work. If you've ever done any work with 3D texturing for a character, you'll know you have several layers, including the blood layers. So add a bit of pink to the skin. Try to emulate a bit of SSS. Research a bit, pay attention to skin colour on your subjects, particularly, which colours (Plural!!!) make it up. Put that into your painting. I didn't learn that in a book!

- Painting looks kinda flat. Get some contrast done, in particular, the tree and the woman both need some real depth work.

- That scarf/belt thingo needs to go higher, as it is, it'd fall down when she works, since it's sitting neatly below the belt line. Which is above the hips.

- Clouds look kinda funky, they aren't quite so stroppy. And believe me, I've been paying attention to those things for years.

A few general rules. Don't think top. Think underside. That's where it all is. You're thinking sheer walls. Switch that to a plane and work from the underside of the clouds. You have full cloud cover. So you have to do that. Right now, your clouds are all over the place. Fixe them up.

Stacked clouds generally have the same bottom.

You really need to have less bulges and ripples in your clouds and more generalities.

Those cloud bunches in the middle right and top left don't go together. They're just off. You need to put the on the same plane and really work on the perspective. Remember, they're not a wall. They're the cieling. So make them look like a cieling.

- Remember, facial expressions cover the whole face, not just parts. Everything is subtely tweaked. Right now, her face is kinda wooden, work on the expression. Tie everything from the movement of the eyelids to the cheek wrinkles together.

- Painting's kinda splotchy in areas, smooth it out and blend a bit more. You also need a lot more definition in the woman in general, texture in particular. That tree could do with a lot more work, as could the grass (Nobody said that was easy dude.)

The colouring of the sunset could be one heck of a lot more vibrant. Add more colours and brighten things up a bit. Sunset and sunrise is the best picture taking time, coz there's lotsa contrast with everything.

- Mountains need sharpening. They ain't soft cushions, they're jagged teeth of rock jutting into the sky. And they are the easiest things to draw. Ever.

I hope that helps. I know its a lot of work, but if you were to submit the picture to me for judgement, I'd give it a 6/10. Aim for 10/10. Even if it hurts. Work out each section, really try to understand the underlying concepts that govern them. Then apply that understanding to your painting.

Painting ain't so much about drawing the muscle as knowing how that muscle connects the bone and the skin goes over it and the viens pump blood through it and how the blood colours the light bouncing off the pores in the skin and the hairs and so on. It's about really understanding your subject from the inside out. Really understanding how things work, how light interacts with them and so on is how you can make something mediocre absolutely stunning.

As I said before. I'd never consider that picture a finished project. There's too much that makes me itch for a correction pen when I look at it.

Good luck. Draigr

PS. Don't justify. Just do it. You might see it zoomed in, but I can't see it on my 19 inch screen.

[rluto77]

I really appreciate all that feedback and I agree with a lot of what you said. I think i'm going to spend more time than originally planned on making this the best it can be. A few points however though (please keep in mind, im not really defending, more of trying to explain why you might be coming to some of the conclusions that you came to).

- For the fabric, it is supposed to be blowing (pretty hard) in the wind so i'm not sure how much to really smooth it out. I don't want it to look to stiff as the fabric of the dress is supposed to be a relatively thin fabric.

- The mountains are getting worked on tonight.

- Imageshack (where I hosted this) OR converting the image to a jpeg makes the colors real flat (especially the sunset). Is their a better website to host my image?

Also, when I host it at imageshack, I have to convert the gigantic original (over 30 inches tall and wide) to 1024x768 so it kinda resizes the image and can make the shapes a bit...off.

I am excited to get home and work on a few of the things you have mentioned. Also, if it would be okay with you I would like to post a link to the original .PSD document so that you (and anyone else for that matter) can open this on their own computers in its original format and coloring. THAT would allow me to get the best crits from you guys.

As another side note: After posting this image last night (and any time I post it on here) i can't stand the way that it looks so i'm not sure if I'm saving the jpeg correctly or what but so much detail and color are lost that it really bothers me. Any suggestions on a better way to post the image or convert it to jpeg would be appreciated.

[rluto77]

Okay so far I have tried to get rid of some of the ripples in the dress.

I have also added some definition to the mountains and tried to clean up the upper portion of the sky a bit.

I also tried to intensify the lighting and the sunset in particular but am still working on it (to much orange, doesnt look enough like a real sunset in my opinion).

As far as her upper torso. I know why it looks a bit strange, it was a change I made earlier on and forgot to change it back. I will be correcting that portion of it but not till I am finished enough to flatten the body/dress/hair layers into one layer (otherwise they get all out of sync).

Let me know if you think the changes are a good or BAD step in the path to completion...

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7163/rainstorm47coloralterat.jpg

[Draigr]

A few points however though (please keep in mind, im not really defending, more of trying to explain why you might be coming to some of the conclusions that you came to).

Ok, that's fine, some people just get all defensive and spout stupid stuff about how they think they are fine when they really aren't and end up with me spending ages explaining to them why something needs fixing. So I just say do it and don't defend, in the end. Saves hassle. Some really intelligent people have done it too.

You're fine though. :thumbsup:

- For the fabric, it is supposed to be blowing (pretty hard) in the wind so i'm not sure how much to really smooth it out. I don't want it to look to stiff as the fabric of the dress is supposed to be a relatively thin fabric.

Hard wind would mean the fabric is plastered against her body. Almost as if it was wet. It would have small ripples but the majority of it would be smooth, following all the details of the woman's body. You might want to reconsider if you don't like nudity, because it's pretty much one step away from that, especially with thin fabric.

Also, thin fabric is translucent, ie, see through. Think nightgown. With the sun behind her, we'd be able to see through the fabric easily. She would also be more silhouetted. Just a tad. But we would be able to see between her legs and around them easily. Along with any other bits of fabric not plastered to her body by the wind.

We would also be able to see through the cloth even easier because of the wind.

Still wanna do thin fabric in a windy environment? If you do, you'll then have to take into account a lot of nudity issues. Including the difference between sexy and sexual.

- The mountains are getting worked on tonight.

Good. Though they do have some soft light effects on them. They do need to be made more jagged still though. With the storm and rain lighting, you can get away with a misty look. But the mountains themselves still need to be made with straighter lines.

- Imageshack (where I hosted this) OR converting the image to a jpeg makes the colors real flat (especially the sunset). Is their a better website to host my image?

Never had issues with imageshack. You may want to check your conversion settings.

Also, when I host it at imageshack, I have to convert the gigantic original (over 30 inches tall and wide) to 1024x768 so it kinda resizes the image and can make the shapes a bit...off.

I've hosted files way over that size there, you may want to check your settings when you upload, and what you use for the hosting link. Because there's a small quick look, but also a large, actual size link.

You can resize manually though, and fiddle with the colours till they're right.

Also, if it would be okay with you I would like to post a link to the original .PSD document so that you (and anyone else for that matter) can open this on their own computers in its original format and coloring. THAT would allow me to get the best crits from you guys.

I would gladly check that out.

As another side note: After posting this image last night (and any time I post it on here) i can't stand the way that it looks so i'm not sure if I'm saving the jpeg correctly or what but so much detail and color are lost that it really bothers me. Any suggestions on a better way to post the image or convert it to jpeg would be appreciated.

Can't say really. I use imageshack, and haven't had issues really.

Other notes:

You need a lot more colours in the sunset, and they need to reach all the clouds. Have a palette spanning purples, brilliant blues, reds, golds, oranges, greens and darker blues. Sunsets are never on colour, but many.

Changes so far show improvements. But, as mentioned before, you may want to rethink textiles. ;)

[rluto77]

Here is a link to the original .PSD file for your critiquing pleasure... :wip:

I am trying to add color to the sunset and extend it out into the painting more. Please let me know what you think after viewing the full size image.


SO in order to download the file go to this link:

CLICK ON "HOME" FROM THIS PAGE TO BEGIN DOWNLOAD OF THE .PSD (http://thegamerlounge.net/index1.html)

I hosted it on my company's server "The Gamer Lounge". I made the link for "Home" on that page the download link.

[mmoir]

Really nice progress made with this image from start to finish. Nice job on this.

[rluto77]

Haven't had as much time to work on this as I had hoped but will get to a lot of it this week. Here is an update with the mountains being reworked along with the clouds and the sunset itself. I am also starting to tweak the figure itself a bit.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8085/rainstorm48coloralterat.jpg

[rluto77]

Im re-working the clouds to try and make them better. Let me know what you think of the changes.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6117/rainstorm49newclouds.jpg

[cgjoker]

wow.Good job ,I love it very much,fighting

[rluto77]

Another update.

Tweaked the sky

Worked on skin tones

Moved belt / ribbons higher

Trying to change her facial expression to more of a smile.

Let me know what you think. And as always, thanks for the compliments AND CRITS!

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6896/rainstorm50newface.jpg

[Draigr]

Alllrighty then. You've been busy. Which is great! :thumbsup:

Some definite improvements, and I took a look at the photoshop file. You've got some very nice areas of detail. Some parts look stunning, but it could all do with a lot more focus on clarity. You've muted a lot of details, which is detrimental to the work. It looks kinda fuzzy. Clear that up.

The dress still needs a revamp, go for simple, larger wrinkles if you don't want to do light fabric. Which are common and usually work better, because they are easier on the eye. You can do smaller, detail wrinkles around the ribbon/belt and the dress torso.

Wind physics needs to be taken into account in all parts of the dress, not just the skirt.

Not sure how many changes you've done, but the upper torso/chest area doesn't stand out as much. However, it still needs a bit of work to look more natural. She still looks very top heavy. Very top heavy.

Skin tones need more pinker colours and a few others. Again, do a bit of research (plenty in online modelling sites or professional photography sites.) you really don't have to look far. Just type in the most obvious things in google. Seriously.

That blue glow on the underside of the left arm doesn't suit. The dress isn't glowing or reflecting light that much. Or at least, it shouldn't be unless it's reflective...

Clouds are definitely looking better, but still need a lot of work. Check the two pictures I posted earlier for colour ideas. You also need to put in more contrast. They're too flat. The underside is bright, however the bits in between need to be a lot darker.

That big cloud bank will be getting the full glory of the sun. So make sure it is.

Stars at sunset? You kidding me? I used to live in a rural area where you could see the milky way every night. The only stars up at sunset were venus and mars. If I am correct. So take out the stars, no matter how nice you think they are. They aren't appropriate. And yes, they are nice, but you need a night scene for cool stars, not a sunset one.

With that many clouds, they won't fade out like that, but rather continue on.

I suggest you do a bit of study on cloud fronts and how they form. It might be enlightening.

That tree bugs me. It's too flat. You really need to darken it, bring out the individual leafy details, then apply the necessary defocusing. It's got too much of that light stuff all over it. Looks kinda like you've gone and smudged it. There isn't any depth. You really need to work on that.

Clouds on the right, the golden yellow ones, are too low still, they're getting better, but try to bring the clouds onto the same plane. Remember to think with those perspective planes in place. It's not as bad, but they still look like a flat background, not a dynamic one that pops out into our faces.

Oh, and were you ever planning on adding rain? Because I shouldn't need to remind you of what that does to a dress, lighting, plants and so on.

Hair needs more detailing. A bit more uniformity to it, in that it still looks a bit like dreadlocks. You need some underlying conformity and then detail layers over the top of it.

You really need to work on the lighting contrast. The shadows need to be made a good deal blacker. Darken the shading a good deal. Try to really just darken anything that would be casting a shadow, it can add a lot of depth, as well as power, to a picture.

That's all for now. Keep it up!

[rluto77]

As always Draigr thanks for the great crits!

Side note: I want this picture to have a bit of a fantasy element to it. I don't really want the clouds to look super realistic (or the entire sky for that matter). So I see the point in that the stars don't look realistic to be out at sunset but I kinda like the way it looks.

HOWEVER, I see where your coming from in that it doesn't look very realistic. My question is, if I'm going for a bit of whimsy with this pic does it look so bad that the stars should be completely removed? (I would be more than happy to remove them if you think it will look better, seriously the stars took all of 2 minutes to complete...)

Also on the rain. I plan on only having it be raining under the darker cloud bank on the left, therefore most of the vegitation and the figure will not be getting rained on.

I also plan to add some wind blown debri, like leaves, maybe a tiny bit of rain, etc. and i'm not sure how to do that realistically or how to make it look good. I want to give the pic more motion.

On the tree, I plan on doing a full on re-paint of that and scrapping what I have (ehh, maybe I'll keep the trunk...).

Again, thanks a million and if someone could maybe help me out with the questions on the sky, debri, etc. I would appreciate it.

EDIT - Yes I am not liking the hair either, thinking of doing a repaint of at least the right hand side of it. I like the details in left hand side and top (as in left if your looking at the pic.)

EDIT 2 - Yes I completely agree with the need for clarity, that is the last thing that I plan on doing (along with fixing the figure so I can flatten all the body/hair layers and then work on it).

[Draigr]

Side note: I want this picture to have a bit of a fantasy element to it. I don't really want the clouds to look super realistic (or the entire sky for that matter). So I see the point in that the stars don't look realistic to be out at sunset but I kinda like the way it looks.

There's a difference between appropriate fantasy elements and inappropriate ones. The stars don't really add anything to the picture and raise more questions then they answer. However, it is your image, and you can decide either way. I personally don't think they're appropriate in this situation though.
Also, while you may not be aiming for hyper realism. Realism is still a fair way off right now. Fantasy is a hard genre to categorize, but I find it generally wise when including elements from our own world to make them look right. Clouds come from our world, therefore, you should do them properly.

The picture itself would benefit immensely from an attention to realism while drawing, as well as your own skills. As I understand you want to expand your knowledge. The best way to do that is to go the whole way and aim to be as realistic as you can. And yes, there is such a thing as stylised realism. The important thing here is to make sure that the viewer knows that immediately upon seeing the image. (right now, this is not the case)

HOWEVER, I see where your coming from in that it doesn't look very realistic. My question is, if I'm going for a bit of whimsy with this pic does it look so bad that the stars should be completely removed? (I would be more than happy to remove them if you think it will look better, seriously the stars took all of 2 minutes to complete...)

They don't look bad as opposed to simply being inappropriate to the image. You just don't really need them.

I also plan to add some wind blown debri, like leaves, maybe a tiny bit of rain, etc. and i'm not sure how to do that realistically or how to make it look good. I want to give the pic more motion.

Cloning is your friend, make some generic leaves, detail them, then copy them into nice swirly patterns in just the right places to evoke a certain sense of mystery and then edit the individual leaves - rotate, lighting, angle, etc. Rain droplets should be highlighted by sparkling reflections, but they should also be small. Don't make these elements dominant, but rather make them complement the figure and the atmosphere. My general advice is just to zoom in and get the details just right. Be sure to zoom out lots while doing that though.

On the tree, I plan on doing a full on re-paint of that and scrapping what I have (ehh, maybe I'll keep the trunk...).

Keep the trunk. That's fine. You can fine tune the shadows and bark, but otherwise it's pretty good. It's just the rest of the thing.

EDIT - Yes I am not liking the hair either, thinking of doing a repaint of at least the right hand side of it. I like the details in left hand side and top (as in left if your looking at the pic.)

I agree with you there, though the other bits you like will need some tweaking and individual strand rendering as well.

EDIT 2 - Yes I completely agree with the need for clarity, that is the last thing that I plan on doing (along with fixing the figure so I can flatten all the body/hair layers and then work on it).

Ok, that's fine then. I usually do it earlier, but later is ok too.

Oh yeah, my recent posts and comments still stand if you're looking for things to correct.

[Vyse-soa]

Hmm, Im not that skilled in art, so I feel a bit uncomfortable giving advices.
But I totally agree with Draigir on the Fantasy/Reality subject, that fantasy stuff can only look convincing, when its strongly based on reality.
Of course there are exceptions, like drawingstyles that defy perspective rules for example, but then one can see, that such a strangely painted world is still very consistent in its own way.
It just doesn't work having some kind of semi realistic paintig and justifing the weaker parts of the picture with the argument, that they are derived from fantasy.

But here is, what I would try to change, besides the things, that were told before me (and like said, its your picture and maybe u like it that way it is right now)

It think the overall look is much to detailed, for my taste its simply overloaded with detail.
The mountain hills: Watching at your painting, my eye stopped on this mountains and tried to figure out the material they're made of. At the moment they look like some kind of fur-hills.
I would suggest redoing them in a simpler way (the farther away they are, the fainter they get taking more of the sky color around them). I would start only with a silhouette of the mountains receding into the atmospheric fog.

It think the grass is rendered adorably, but I would probably do some experimenting with some fog at the pit of the hill, between the mountain hills and where she standing.
You would loose some detail in this area which would probably let the beautiful grass in the foreground stand out a bit more.
Maybe it would look better, maybe not... it's a thing I would just try out.

But the feel of the painting is definitely there, this strange storm chill and it has something dreamy, that I really like. It's like a dream, where you meet this women and you know, she will guide you through there...

[rluto77]

Hi guys and gals, sorry I disappeared for a while but I have been painting, I assure you.

SO, I definitely liked the idea of fogging out some of the hills and adding some depth there.

I also STARTED the process of adding some sharp edged details to the mountains.

As you can tell, the stars and gone and the painting is definitely better for it.

Clouds need major work by the sunset and the sky is nowhere NEAR being done.

Tree was removed and replaced (going to be replaced) with a dead and slightly ominous looking dead tree.

Face was worked on to make the expression more realistic. (Added closeup pic of both face and some hair)

Hair was worked on as well but still needs a bit of work.

Let me know what you think! Thanks as always!

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7070/face3v.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6237/rainstorm52newface.jpg

[Draigr]

Definitely looking better, not much to say, except keep up the good work! I mean, really, most of the stuff that needs working on has been said before.

Just one little thing, you might want to consider trying to get the clouds to look like they're going overhead. It would be a lot more dramatic.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.